Oops, sorry! I've been a member so long that I never checked the beginner's page again for updates. I had no idea there was such a thing as a DNA list -- or if I knew, I forgot. Apologies. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen" <jerri@cherokee.net> To: <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 11:18 PM Subject: [IT ROOTS] Re: [Indian Ancestry > Eunice said: > "<snip> This company does indeed do specific tests for ethnic ancestry. > They can tell you the percentage of Indo-European, East-Asian, Native > American, and African. <snip>". > > Eunice- > -- PLEASE read the rules of this mail list concerning discussions on DNA. > If you people want to discuss DNA, that's fine-- but take your > discussion to the DNA Mail list! > > List Mistress > jc > > > > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For instructions to unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > List owner: jerri@cherokee.net Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ > >

Eunice said: "<snip> This company does indeed do specific tests for ethnic ancestry. They can tell you the percentage of Indo-European, East-Asian, Native American, and African. <snip>". Eunice- -- PLEASE read the rules of this mail list concerning discussions on DNA. If you people want to discuss DNA, that's fine-- but take your discussion to the DNA Mail list! List Mistress jc >

Deborah ask: "My gggreat-grandparents were in Pickens Co., Chickasaw Nation, IT by 1900 and I am trying to determine whether they were legal or illegal" Deborah, Despite all of your "clues", it all boils down to three things-- (1) were they and their children shown on the Chickasaw rolls as "By Blood" citizens?; (2) were they and their children shown on the 1900 and later census as "IN" ("Indians")? and (3) have you identified her DeArman parents on the 1850 census to see what part of the country they came from? If the answers to the above questions is no, then it is very, VERY doubtful if they were Indian of any tribe. Calhoun Co AL was ceded by the Creek Indians several years before Tabitha was born, and the white settlers lost no time in occupying that area of AL when it was opened in 1832. As for them being "legal" or "illegal"-- that would be hard to say! The 1890 census of the Chickasaw Nation shows the ratio of whites and blacks to the Indians was very shocking- even for me! The poor Chickasaw Indians were less than 10% of the total population who was occupying their land! That does not, however, mean that your family couldn't have paid a fee and been issued a Permit to live there and pay rent, but those documents are all but impossible to find in the Chickasaw Archives. Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore OK

Hi. My gggreat-grandparents were in Pickens Co., Chickasaw Nation, IT by 1900 and I am trying to determine whether they were legal or illegal. I would appreciate any research suggestions on where to search for relevant records or historical information. Below is some of the information I know about them that may be relevant. According to the 1900 Federal census, John L. Salmon (b. 1836, Mercer Co., KY) and Tabitha Emmiline DeArman (b. 1838. Calhoun Co., AL), were in Pickens Co., Chickasaw Nation, IT (I believe they were living in the area of current day Addington or Comanche, OK as that is where the family remained after statehood). Also listed living nearby are two of their adult sons and their families. John died in 1906 and is buried in Montague Co. TX (where some of their adult children were living in 1900). Emmiline died in 1910 and is buried in Addington, Jefferson Co. TX. All branches of the family have the tradition that Emmiline was American Indian, but not what tribe. Every branch of the family has the same story about Emmiline, even without contact between the branches over the years. Whenever I have contacted any "lost" relatives, the first question they ask is, "Is it true that she was Indian?" or some version of that question. My great uncle said Emmiline (his grandmother) could have had an allotment, but would not admit to being Indian and refused to enroll. One elderly in-law from another branch of the family remembered family members discussing the fact that Emmiline was Indian at her funeral in 1910. Yet another, now deceased, family member said her side of the family thought (knew?) she was adopted. My father believed Emmiline denied being Indian because there were Texas laws at some time that forbid Indians to live in Texas. Emmiline was born in Alabama, possibly Calhoun County, in 1838 and her parents moved to Texas circa 1840. After she married John in 1854, they are listed in the Navarro Co. TX censuses until 1880, so they moved to I.T. sometime after 1880. Another interesting fact about Emmiline's famly is that in Alabama, the DeArmans are said to have been the first white settlers of the DeArmanville community, near Oxford AL. According to local history, in 1833, the DeArman's traded wild ponies acquired in Texas for land with the Creek Indians in Choccolocco Valley, later known as Benton Co., and then Calhoun Co. AL. I have one photograph of Emmiline, so I asked one of my cousins who works in Okla. law enforcement to ask a colleague, who is an America Indian forensic artist (the artists who draw faces from skeletal remains), to examine Emmiline's photograph to see if she appeared to be of Amer. Indian ancestry to him. He confirmed that she did and even named two or three tribal possibilities, but said he would need more photographs to pin the tribe down for sure. So, there is a lot of "soft" evidence to indicate that Emmiline was indeed American Indian to some degree, but no documentation. I know the fact that she was living in Chickasaw nation does not mean she was Chickasaw since amongst the five tribes in Indian Territory, members of one tribe could be living in the territory of another. However, even if she was Indian, could she live legally in I.T., if she denied being Indian and/or refused to enroll? Does anyone know who would have made records of legal and/or illegal residents in Chickasaw Nation -- federal, tribal, or both--and where these types of records would be found? Thanks Deborah King

If I understand it correctly, there wouldn't be any Indian results for your husband's test. The American Indian tests follow chromosomes up the maternal line. On your tests, it would only show a positive result if there was such ancestry on your mother's part, or her mother's part, or her grandmother's, and so on. Funny, I was thinking about this very thing today, before the first inquiry. I, too, was wondering how a positive result would be regarded by the American tribes. From Jerri's answer, I assume there's no point in contacting them...? Rhonda ----- Original Message ----- From: <KDSGON@aol.com> To: <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:39 PM Subject: [IT ROOTS] DNA testing > I've submitted my DNA and my husbands to Family Tree DNA and so far no > matches and no Indian connections. It is possible that my husband is 1/8th Indian, > but then, maybe not. > > Mine only shows a heavy French background. > > I don't know what to make of it so far. > > Sherry Butler Ward > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For instructions to unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > List owner: jerri@cherokee.net Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ > >

I've submitted my DNA and my husbands to Family Tree DNA and so far no matches and no Indian connections. It is possible that my husband is 1/8th Indian, but then, maybe not. Mine only shows a heavy French background. I don't know what to make of it so far. Sherry Butler Ward

Karen said- " If one is told that he is 1/16th Indian and can not locate any documentation as proof, would DNA testing reveal any connection?" Karen- DNA testing is wonderful when used to solve crimes or to establish the parentage of a child on the Jerry Spring TV show, but unless you have LIVE persons to compare it to, all that you will get for you $400. is an educated guess as to where your ancestors may have been living back in the dark ages! It proves nothing as far as connecting your ancestry to the tribes of Indian Territory The only method that will do that is to use the "Generally Accepted Genealogical Research Methods" that have been used, worldwide, for hundreds of years. Check out the instructions at http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/page_1.htm Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore OK

Karen said- " If one is told that he is 1/16th Indian and can not locate any documentation as proof, would DNA testing reveal any connection?" Karen- DNA testing is wonderful when used to solve crimes or to establish the parentage of a child on the Jerry Spring TV show, but unless you have LIVE persons to compare it to, all that you will get for you $400. is an educated guess as to where your ancestors may have been living back in the dark ages! It proves nothing as far as connecting your ancestry to the tribes of Indian Territory The only method that will do that is to use the "Generally Accepted Genealogical Research Methods" that have been used, worldwide, for hundreds of years. Check out the instructions at http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/page_1.htm Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore OK

Please forgive me asking such an uneducated question, but I am just not sure about this . . . If one is told that he is 1/16th Indian and can not locate any documentation as proof, would DNA testing reveal any connection? Thank you. Karen

Hello Karen, Try www.familytreedna.com -- they say they can, but it will cost some. ----- Original Message ----- From: <KPhill2906@aol.com> To: <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 9:05 AM Subject: [IT ROOTS] Indian Ancestry > Please forgive me asking such an uneducated question, but I am just not > sure > about this . . . > > If one is told that he is 1/16th Indian and can not locate any > documentation > as proof, would DNA testing reveal any connection? > > Thank you. > > Karen > > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For instructions to unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > List owner: jerri@cherokee.net Archives: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ > >

My ancestor, Jesse Terry, is half Indian. I don't know what tribe. He married Elizabeth Lindsey Apr 21, 1825 in Lawrence Co., TN. He had 3 children in Alabama between 1826 and 1832. His grandaughter Elizabeth and Samuel Asbury Garrett had 2 children in Indian Territory, OK. Nancy (Nannie) Ozedel Garrett born Sept. 18, 1890, the second baby died and is buried in Indian Territory, OK. Thank you, Rhoda Schmidt rhodos@tstar.net

Susan said-- "From what Jerri replied about where marriages were registered -- if ancestors were married in Le Flore Co, IT in 1897, is this a clue that they were there legitimately, that is, of NA ancestry? " Susan- No--- actually, that "clue" would be totally adverse to NA ancestry. The tribes had set up stringent laws to protect tribal members from being roped into a foolish marriage with a non-Indian, because most of the "ropers" were simply trying to get their hands on the land that was going to be distributed by the Dawes Commission in 1902. You might be shocked to know how FEW of these wives survived the first year after the Dawes Roll was finalized, then the husbands were given the land as their heirs (see "And Still The Waters Run"- by Angie Debo). Each tribe had their own requirements, but in the Cherokee Tribe, a tribal marriage license required five Cherokee tribal members filing vouchers attesting to the non-Indian's honesty and respectability. On the other hand, if a NA obtained their license from federal court house, their tribe would not recognize their marriage, the legitimacy of their children, nor the non-Indian spouses rights to inherit. Those old men were pretty wise! Jerri C.

Federal courts were in operation in Indian Territory starting in 1895. I think there were three in all. One was at Ardmore. I found my grandparents' 1899 marriage license in microfilm records of that court's records. The film was at a Family History Center of the Mormon church. ----- Original Message ----- > Does anyone know where these records are and how I can find out where the > marriages took place? > > *_ W.G. Birdsong age 23 of McAlester, IT. to Dallveny Fields on 23 Dec > 1897; page 15 > Marriage Book US Court ,Indian Terr. Book 8. > > *_ Josephine Birdsong age 28 of Whitefield, IT to W.H.Adams 28 of Stigler, > IT on W.H.Adams on 04 April 1901;

Gloria wrote: "--<snip>Does anyone know where these records are and how I can find out where the marriages took place?" Gloria- These were marriages license issued at the United States Court House in McAlester, I.T. At that time, the non-Indians who wanted to marry had to either go to a U.S. Court House (McAlester, Muskogee, Vinita) or to a nearby state (TX, AR, KS). Indian Territory consisted of five sovereign Indian Nations and they had no provisions for recording and maintain records on the non-Indians living on their land, most of them being classified as "illegal intruders". After statehood in 1907, McAlester was assigned as the county seat of Pittsburg Co. Check with the Pittsburg Co Genealogical Society for copies. I would also suggest that you check the 1900 U.S. census of Indian Territory for these families. Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore > >

The following two marriages were sent to me a while back but with no explanation of where the records came from or where these people were married? It only said "Indian Territory Marriages, Marriage Book US Court". Does anyone know where these records are and how I can find out where the marriages took place? *_ W.G. Birdsong age 23 of McAlester, IT. to Dallveny Fields on 23 Dec 1897; page 15 Marriage Book US Court ,Indian Terr. Book 8. *_ Josephine Birdsong age 28 of Whitefield, IT to W.H.Adams 28 of Stigler, IT on W.H.Adams on 04 April 1901; Thanks, Gloria Dial Broadband has arrived Nationwide! Up to 5 times faster than traditional dialup connections from $13.33/month! See the demo for yourself at <a href="http://www.BigValley.net">www.BigValley.net</a>

I am researching the family of Serenia Elizabeth Watts born 1876 in Gainesville, Ozark Co, MO and moved to Pittsburg Co, OK ca 1897 where she died in 1970. She married Robert E.L. Watts in MO 1896. Serenia was the daughter of William R. Shrum b IL. and Eliza A. Gifford b in AR or MO. Serenia always said that her grandmother was full blooded Cherokee Indian. Unfortunately I haven't found the names of either of her grandmothers and both of her grandfather's were married several times. Her paternal grandfather was Gideon W. Shrum born 1825 TN was married 3-4 times. Her Maternal grandfather was Joseph F. Gifford born abt 1807 in TN and was married 4 times. Anyone out there know anything about the Shrum or Gifford families? Would love to share information. Thanks, Gloria in California Dial Broadband has arrived Nationwide! Up to 5 times faster than traditional dialup connections from $13.33/month! See the demo for yourself at <a href="http://www.BigValley.net">www.BigValley.net</a>

Las Cruces Sun News Oct 19, 2005 Ordrey Alene Holliefield born 3 May 1918 in Indian Territory, OK to Oscar & Nellie Duke. Burial in Missionary Ridge Cemetery, Dona Ana Co., NM. Husband Otis Holliefield.

Dear subscribers, Just wanted to thank everyone for all the reply I have received about the surnames I am researching. Thank you for all the helpful leads, advice and wonderful information. I am especially grateful for finding some cousins which is the icing on the cake! Here is another name I am researching Nancy Malissa Jane Hibbs born 1860 in ArK died possibly 1940 in Muskogee would like to find exact date of death she is my great great grandmother. She married Sylvester Hibbs he died 1897 their children John, David, Mary E.(my g grandmother), Emma, Viola, & Carl & Ollie. I only know what happened to Ollie and Mary the others seemed to have disappeared. Thanks Robin

MY line starts 1760's lower towns old 96th Edward Wilkerson was peace agent with the Cherokee's he married Wolf Clan Mollie they had Edward Wilkerson Jr. John Wilkerson and my 6th grandmother Elizabeth Wilkerson she married Thomas Jones. They had reszervation in marion co tn. on the tn. river they emigrated from Nick-A-Jack 1829 her brother came on the trail some of the surname's connected to this line are; Jesse Bushyhead-Jones-Blevins-Duncan-Meeks-White-Frazier-Heard-Standridge-Ross Bankhead-Dameron-Bennett-Goins-Paden etc. i have got the file on this lines most of them will connect to the first familes in Starr's book let me know if you might have a connection. Calvin

Jack Still I have heard the name of Catherine Downing and of George Still possibly being an uncle to my Jack. My Jack Still was born abt 1820 in Hamilton Co. TN and migrated to OK.IT abt. 1855. However, I can't find a family or siblings for him in TN. Jan