I knew that, I meant what did it mean to them. My husband's family is on the Roll, but the wife's family says MCR. Wondered why this occurred to some....they were definitely Choctaw, but does this mean they didn't receive land and therefore are not eligible for the roll or what? It didn't matter to us, my husband and kids have Choctaw Tribal membership, but wondered what it meant for them at the time. The family. Carla

---- Carla B wrote: <snip> "what does MCR mean on the Dawes roll? " "Mississippi Choctaw- Rejected" jc

Borderline abuse some would say, but I am still at a loss as to whether I am the one serving it or receiving it, and that is just unsettling, LOL! I meant no harm for sure. I love genealogy and the search for our family has been a joyful journey. Carla Le respect de sa recherche de famille est toujours bienvenu.

It is Mercy Me, not No Mercy, but I sure hope to be there! I can't wait! We hope to meet some of our new found Indian relatives. By the way, what does MCR mean on the Dawes roll? Does that mean your not really REAL Indian? I am confused about that, the census cards, and the roll #'s and what the difference between them? Carla

James wrote: "I would like to hear from anyone that has used the CD: "Native American Collection" <snip>" ____ I have it, James--- what do you need to know? Jerri C. Claremore

A Cherokee, male or female, would never lower themselves to claim any honor that they, themselves, did not earn nor deserve. The honor was earned and belongs to her father, the chief. To allow herself to be called "a Cherokee Princess" would dishonor not only herself, but her father, her entire family and her CLAN! <SNIP> I don't think you understood what I was saying. I was saying the white people ASSUMED they were a Princess due to being the daughter of the Chief. I was not saying the daughter thought of herself as a Princess or claimed the title. I also meant the word PRINCESS was not bad in itself (why I brought up the use in Pow Wow's) but I never said the Cherokees had Princesses or that Chief daughter's would claim to be one. Carla

The annual Choctaw Labor Day Festival is scheduled for August 31- September 4 at the Choctaw Capitol Grounds, TushkaHomma, Oklahoma. Among the festivities this year are entertainers: Charley Pride, Craig Morgan, Chris Cagle, Clint Black, Miranda Lambert and No Mercy. For a detailed schedule see : www.choctawnation.com James Brown

I would like to hear from anyone that has used the CD: "Native American Collection" created and sponsored by the Oklahoma Historical Society. James Brown

Is that directed to me? I find the line in the messages confusing, on who is talking to who. If it is to me you have misunderstood and I will remove myself from the group if that is how my conversation was read by all. Sorry,but I was just offering info.... ~~~~~~~~~~ Mmmm ... I don't think so. I'm not 52, 53 on August 7th, for nothing. I know what claws look like and yours are some of the biggest I've ever seen. If you can't overlook a minor "transgression" (i.e. people mistakingly believing that there was such a thing as an Indian princess), and correcting them with courtesy and respect, how do you handle the big things in life?

Carla, I loved your French (& understood it all) I lived in Belgium for Six years and put about 98,000 miles on my VW Camper - French was a God Send but I found out that in Turkey, one doesn't have to know the language to be understood. I'm glad the topic came up. It reminds me of about 6 years ago when I asked the questions about "Black Irish" and "Black Dutch" - A startling answer came back from "Pitter's Cherokee Trails By Peter Seabaugh" If one is interested, Pull it up on the NET. Ken Sparks/Hamilton Baker, CA -----Original Message----- From: Carla B [mailto:soarsister@cableone.net] Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 6:04 PM To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] getting over it Borderline abuse some would say, but I am still at a loss as to whether I am the one serving it or receiving it, and that is just unsettling, LOL! I meant no harm for sure. I love genealogy and the search for our family has been a joyful journey. Carla Le respect de sa recherche de famille est toujours bienvenu. ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== For instructions to unsubscribe and list rules, click on http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html List owner: jerri@cherokee.net Archives: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.3/395 - Release Date: 7/21/2006

Thanks Ron! Isn't it great? I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed finding our relatives and their families. Cousins we didn't even know we had! By the way to the question on language the Choctaw Nation has a language Word a day section...the Cherokee may too. Carla

I am a little surprised at the hostility I am reading in the responses, but in the responses I was merely pointing out that the word PRINCESS was not a bad label..I was not stating that I thought the POW WOW Princess was anything more than an Honor. This is really funny, because the replies just seemed real short and accusatory. I was only pointing out that Princess is a relative term, the person telling the story probably assumed the daughter of a chief, royalty in their eyes, would be a Princess. It isn't what I expected however when I joined this list, to find people questioning others Indian Heritage, or the prospect thereof and claiming to be a REAL Native American, as opposed to what? The fake ones? Indian blood aside, most of us were born here, are Native American, and just want to reconnect with our family and their history. I forgot to add that the first link I sent was on Cherokee Indians of Virginia..... http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/cherokees.htm Carla

From my understanding and research through the connections of my wife with cheif Joseph Vann and Pocahontas it seems to come from when Pocahontas was introduced to the english aritiocratic court.. being the daughter of a cheif of a nation she would have to have a title.... this was done with a lot of the people of outher countries were introduced to court.. ie. African or Nubien... just my opinion.... Mike Mounce

I have been on this site for a long time and am appalled at the attitude of some that is not the Cherokee way to call people frauds and charlatans is not right we are supposed to help one another. I think there are maybe some apologies in order. This person is trying to trace her roots. None of us will know where we are headed until we find out where we came from. I was a lucky one 2 weeks ago in finding a marriage certificate of my GGrandparents in a small town called Elko Nevada dated aug. 3 1888 that was a wonderful thing to happen to me. I know how frustrating it is to find dead end streets. Ron Shasteen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carla B" <soarsister@cableone.net> To: <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 3:43 PM Subject: Fw: [IT ROOTS] misinformation! > > > > > I am a little surprised at the hostility I am reading in the responses, > but in the responses I was merely pointing out that the word PRINCESS was > not a bad label..I was not stating that I thought the POW WOW Princess was > anything more than an Honor. This is really funny, because the replies > just seemed real short and accusatory. I was only pointing out that > Princess is a relative term, the person telling the story probably assumed > the daughter of a chief, royalty in their eyes, would be a Princess. It > isn't what I expected however when I joined this list, to find people > questioning others Indian Heritage, or the prospect thereof and claiming > to be a REAL Native American, as opposed to what? The fake ones? Indian > blood aside, most of us were born here, are Native American, and just want > to reconnect with our family and their history. > I forgot to add that the first link I sent was on Cherokee Indians of > Virginia..... > http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/cherokees.htm > > Carla > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For instructions to unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > List owner: jerri@cherokee.net Archives: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/ >

---- James Brown <patton14@crosstel.net> wrote: "Jerri! I applaud your response to this matter of "Princess" <snip>. Thanks for the support, James-- , but it's doubtful that those who are not REAL native Americans would understand how deeply we feel about "honor". -- but the subject sure woke up this dead mail list, huh!!!! <grin> Jerri

Jerri! I applaud your response to this matter of "Princess". 3 years ago my neice was Choctaw Jr. Miss. and it was an honor for her as well as all the girls representing the counties in the Choctaw Nation.. No one ever suggested they had a lofty position or was a member of Roylty. As you stated it is an honorary title, relinquished after one year.I was only responding , because of the ongoing myth of the "REAL INDIAN PRINCESS". James Brown

---- Carla B <soarsister@cableone.net> wrote: "After reading further it seems doubtful they would look down on the term since they now use it to crown the Princess of the Pow Wow's. <snip>" ------- That's taking this too far!!!!!!!! You ALL know that the title of "pow wow princess" given to one of our beautiful young tribal members is an honorary title and is certainly not the same as the "Cherokee Princess" that so many try to use, mistakenly believing to raise their own status above the rest of the members of the tribe. A Cherokee, male or female, would never lower themselves to claim any honor that they, themselves, did not earn nor deserve. The honor was earned and belongs to her father, the chief. To allow herself to be called "a Cherokee Princess" would dishonor not only herself, but her father, her entire family and her CLAN! Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen

Many of us know that a long-standing legend is that of the illusive ancestor or someone's old family story about the "Indian Princess".I think there is one in almost every tribe. Native American historians and respected genealogists on all levels dispute the use of this term ever being used by the Indian people. According to one source, Deborah Adams,through her interviews with tribal elders, the term Princess could have started when some of the first white settlers, who came into contact with the chiefs for a first time, considered them Royalty. There was a certain level of status that was inherited for being the offspring of tribal leaders. One site intended to educate is www.native-languages.org/princess.htm Of course a few opinions re the usage of the term are directed at the "Princess " pagents that are sponsored by some tribes. My only advice on this to the critics would be to write the tribal administration about it. I understand some have a special file for issues such as this. Actually being born an Indian, I think its a little thing.But the Historically accuracy of anyone's People is all-important. I do have some knowledge of the Five Civilized TRIBES>. As far as phonics and word structure and/or pronunciation, I suggest anyone interested...do a search ....I have friends that homeschool their child and I UNDERSTAND< several sites are available. James in the Choctaw Nation

After reading further it seems doubtful they would look down on the term since they now use it to crown the Princess of the Pow Wow's. You can find more info at the following: http://www.cherokee.org/

http://falcon.jmu.edu/~ramseyil/cherokees.htm http://www.cherokee.org/home.aspx?section=culture&culture=culinfo&cat=L6QVQK5vOaA=&ID=YMnrfQ7QD/E= According to this site, most people who were told their kin was a Cherokee Princess were mistaken. There are no Cherokee Princesses, however this states that by that phrase many were describing that their kin were actually the daughter of the chief...the assumption was that this made them a princess. Carla