the first that I ever heard the term "black Dutch" was in the mid 1970's, in eastern Oklahoma and it was used by an enrolled Cherokee, with Chickasaw and "black Dutch" ancestry. He knew he was Cherokee and Chickasaw but then also threw in the "black Dutch" - meaning it was yet another 'blood line'. Neither he nor I knew anything more than what it looked like on the surface - another blood line. He's gone now, so I can't ask for more information. The internet is full of information but before accepting anything as legitimate, read everything, ask questions and over time, decide for yourself what the "truth" of being "black Dutch" means - or meant - to your family. Query: what does being "black Dutch" mean? http://www.ask.com/web?q=what+does+%22black+Dutch%22+mean%3F&qsrc=0&o=0&l=dir http://www.ask.com/web?q=what+does+being+%22black+Dutch%22+mean%3F&qsrc=1&o=0&l=dir http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=what+does+being+%22black+Dutch%22+mean%3F&btnG=Google+Search http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/what%252Bdoes%252Bbeing%252B%252522black%252BDutch%252522%252Bmean%25253F/1/-/1/-/-/-/1/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/-/417/top/-/-/-/1 Donna

Jean One of the ways to learn which tribe was to look at the tribes in the area at the time you are speaking of. The Removal took all tribes east of the Mississippi. But there IS such a thing as Black Dutch aka the Melungeons. There is still some controversy as to whether (or not) the Native Americans of the area consisting of southwest Virginia, north west North Carolina, northeast Tennessee and southeast Kentucky were genetically involved with the Melungeons...DNA studies are still inconclusive. There are plenty of places to learn of these. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Cloke" <gjcloke@msn.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch > Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in > Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in > the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for > a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a > rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about > this. > > As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide > their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother > told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had > bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch > ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research > and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were > from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our > church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me > there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out > that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some > Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be > Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew > so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they > were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm tr! > ying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. > > This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My > ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany > originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), > Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and > Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). > > My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to > Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved > around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS > (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman > married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. > Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. > > Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's > where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother > indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian > Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to > ideas. > > Have a good day, > Jean > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> > To: > indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone > > > What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they > WERE > part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would > guess...this > was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee > withdrew > from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. > So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that > time. Fron > what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur > trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the > area where the > Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, > married > into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. > > I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to > the > intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is > "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." > > One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other > perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred > to as the > Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that > (Cherokee, > Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to > not admit > native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black > dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of > native. > This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that > this > removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern > Cherokee > Nations that depict this removal. > > Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women > and > Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in > what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction > by their > Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with > others, > non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my > Mitchell > family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the > Chattanooga > area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their > children. > There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their > background. From there they traveled to AR. > > So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, > in > areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived > (as > a tribe). > > These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were > cited > to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that > could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an > area.....but the > native blood would still have been present, even if there was > intermarriage. > > jes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >

Thanks Ken, the link didn't work so I Googled it and found the site. Most of the links seem to be broken on the site. Maybe they are working on it or something. I will try again later. Thanks again, it looks like a great site. Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Baker<mailto:Kenebaker@comcast.net> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch Jean, log in to "Pitter's Cherokee Trails" - "http://rosecitynet/cherokee/blackdutch<http://rosecitynet/cherokee/blackdutch> My grandmother claimed she was "Black Dutch" - I haven't gotten into Her history yet. Ken baker, Santa Maria, CA -----Original Message----- From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com> [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Cloke Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:33 AM To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about this. As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm tr! ying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to ideas. Have a good day, Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com>> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.c<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.c> om> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they WERE part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would guess...this was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee withdrew from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that time. Fron what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the area where the Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, married into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to the intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred to as the Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to not admit native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of native. This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that this removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern Cherokee Nations that depict this removal. Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women and Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction by their Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with others, non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my Mitchell family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the Chattanooga area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their children. There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their background. From there they traveled to AR. So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, in areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived (as a tribe). These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were cited to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an area.....but the native blood would still have been present, even if there was intermarriage. jes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-re<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-re> quest@rootsweb.com<mailto:quest@rootsweb.com>> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't think the Cherokee lineage is in doubt. If you want the correct information join the Benge list and ask for Oleta. Benge-request@rootsweb.com And if yo know of a connection to the Lawson family in this conundrum please let us know. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Baker" <Kenebaker@comcast.net> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitionsofenrollment > Interesting, in that I have a BENGE, "...Abel Sparks (the elder) married > Elizabeth Benge. She was the daughter of Thomas Benge of Wilkes County, > North Carolina, as is proved by the will of Thomas Benge dated January 21, > 1811...." > In following Abel Sparks (my grgrgr)there were Iriah b. 1797 NC; Citizen > Napoleon Bonapart Sparks b. 1841; Rueben 1877 GA(my grandfather). > I have read about BENGE, which one I don't remember but there was Indian > Relationship. > > Contact me at 'kenebaker@comcast.net' > > -----Original Message----- > From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > DocJeep371@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:53 AM > To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions > ofenrollment > > I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to > Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon > Boneparte > Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on > petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His > Indian blood > may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a > claim > of > Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006 > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >

Dorothy, Do you have any info on a Jolly Thornton (on the Old Settlers Payroll)? Bill -----Original Message----- From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Dorothy G Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:57 PM To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitionsofenrollment Do you know who Nepoleon Boneparte Thornton's parents were? I am working on the (Cherokee) Thornton line and hopefully we can connect our Thornton's? Sincerely, Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: <DocJeep371@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions ofenrollment >I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to > Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon > Boneparte > Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on > petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His > Indian blood > may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a > claim of > Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

DocJeep371 wrote: >"<snip> A decendent of his, Nepoleon Boneparte Thornton, applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition?" > Actually, the application filed by N. B. Thornton in 1896 was number #3401. It was filed, rejected and appealed. As a result, the entire file was forwarded to the commission. I did not find a copy of the original application in my collection, but you may find it at the Ft Worth Branch of the National Archives. Good luck Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore

Do you know who Nepoleon Boneparte Thornton's parents were? I am working on the (Cherokee) Thornton line and hopefully we can connect our Thornton's? Sincerely, Dorothy ----- Original Message ----- From: <DocJeep371@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:53 AM Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions ofenrollment >I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to > Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon > Boneparte > Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on > petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His > Indian blood > may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a > claim of > Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about this. As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm trying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to ideas. Have a good day, Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they WERE part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would guess...this was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee withdrew from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that time. Fron what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the area where the Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, married into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to the intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred to as the Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to not admit native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of native. This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that this removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern Cherokee Nations that depict this removal. Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women and Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction by their Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with others, non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my Mitchell family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the Chattanooga area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their children. There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their background. From there they traveled to AR. So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, in areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived (as a tribe). These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were cited to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an area.....but the native blood would still have been present, even if there was intermarriage. jes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon Boneparte Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His Indian blood may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a claim of Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this?

For a comprehensive and contemporary overview of Cherokee History, check out the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma web site and see where the 32 hour+ history course is being offered and enroll. For ten bucks a person gets lectures with lots of audio visuals and a 2 1/4 inch thick "book" made of copies of original documents. Cherokee Nation subsidizes this course and it is offered in cities from the East Coast to the West Coasts. When I attended the course in Washington DC there were people who had traveled there from Indiana and New York City. The compilation of documents is only available to enrollees in the course. It is a course that all employees of the Cherokee Nation must take. The lecturer is really good and she encourages lots of discussion so that myths and misinformation about the tribe can be dispelled. No exams just lively discussions and presentations. There are stories (myths in some cases) about trying to disguise or hide Indian heritage. In some parts of the country attitudes on part of the whites are conducive to keeping silent about Indian heritage. Once when I was in South Dakota I was told never to mention I was of Indian descent. The people in that town even required Indians to be buried in a separate cemetery. Hopefully it is still not that way today. The historical rolls that were taken at various times in the Cherokee Nation's history introduced to white society the idea of recording amount of Indian "blood", I.e. 1/4, 1/2, full. which in later times became standard procedure to determine "Indianness". This is because the white belief was that "blood" carried the ability of people to handle their affairs. Blue bloods, good blood, bad blood are terms which reflect this period of white thought. After all, this was before people knew about genes creating physical/mental characteristics and the society believed you "inherited" your abilities thru the blood. Those Indians with less "Indian blood" and more white blood were more "civilized." If a person had more Indian blood, then they were less civilized. The Indians didn't care about this categorization because they recognized tribal affiliation on the basis of other traits or actions. So within the "Cherokee" population at the time of removal there were Catawbas, Creeks, and Chickasaws but they were considered to be citizens and only the whites insisted on noting the origins of these families. If a person and/or family was considered by the tribe as tribal members, then they were Cherokee and subject to tribal authority and laws. The Cherokees being agricultural had black slaves who were not considered members. When John Ross and family were removed they carried with them on the steam ship, 22+ slaves but one Cherokee plantation owner in Georgia had over 100. On the Henderson Roll (Removal Roll), the number of slaves possessed by a family appears. Traders with the Indians had to be licensed by the colonial governments. So a person could not be legally involved with the Indians unless they were permitted. Of course there were renegades who tried to horn in on this but generally these people were quickly rooted out by the colonial authorities. After all, part of the resources of the colony was that that provided by the Indian trade and that required supervision with authorized traders. Rules established trade standards about values, weights and measures our word "buck" for a dollar comes from the value of one deer skin (buck). The native resources involved in the trade had to be taken to shipping ports and loaded on to ships and the colonial authorities were there to record the number of skins, etc that were part of that trading process as well. Indian citizens were free to move about and some did leave the tribe and dropped their citizenship. For these people, there would be no documentation to show their original tribal membership. While stories about ancestry might be handed down within their descendents, there would be no way of proving their biological heritage. Family myths about ancestry abound but careful genealogical research is required to determine the documented truth. There is a large number of people in the Southeastern United States that believe they are descended from a "tribe" call the Blackfeet" or "Blackfoot." Such a tribe never lived in the southeastern US. There is a "Blackfoot" Tribe on the Idaho Canadian border but they never occupied the Southeastern U.S. When I once pointed out this to an individual who said she was "Blackfoot" from Georgia, her reply, "I don't care what you say, my daddy says that is our ancestry and he does not lie." Family myths and stories die hard. ----- Original Message ----- From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they WERE part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would guess...this was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee withdrew from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that time. Fron what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the area where the Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, married into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to the intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred to as the Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to not admit native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of native. This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that this removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern Cherokee Nations that depict this removal. Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women and Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction by their Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with others, non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my Mitchell family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the Chattanooga area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their children. There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their background. From there they traveled to AR. So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, in areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived (as a tribe). These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were cited to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an area.....but the native blood would still have been present, even if there was intermarriage. jes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pat Kennedy here: Could you give me a little more info about the LAWSON line? I have a William Lawson line from KY to Dallas Co., MO. My Mahala Lawson, md: James Phariss before 1850 in Dallas Co., MO and left for CA...with the other Phariss brothers and families in the early 1850's. pat-igree-kenn@charter.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joyce G. Reece" <bjreece@bellsouth.net> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information aboutpetitionsofenrollment >I don't think the Cherokee lineage is in doubt. If you want the correct > information join the Benge list and ask for Oleta. > Benge-request@rootsweb.com > > And if yo know of a connection to the Lawson family in this conundrum > please > let us know. > > Joyce Gaston Reece > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ken Baker" <Kenebaker@comcast.net> > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:01 PM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about > petitionsofenrollment > > >> Interesting, in that I have a BENGE, "...Abel Sparks (the elder) married >> Elizabeth Benge. She was the daughter of Thomas Benge of Wilkes County, >> North Carolina, as is proved by the will of Thomas Benge dated January >> 21, >> 1811...." >> In following Abel Sparks (my grgrgr)there were Iriah b. 1797 NC; Citizen >> Napoleon Bonapart Sparks b. 1841; Rueben 1877 GA(my grandfather). >> I have read about BENGE, which one I don't remember but there was Indian >> Relationship. >> >> Contact me at 'kenebaker@comcast.net' >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >> DocJeep371@aol.com >> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:53 AM >> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions >> ofenrollment >> >> I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to >> Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon >> Boneparte >> Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on >> petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His >> Indian blood >> may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a >> claim >> of >> Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this? >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006 >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Jerri, Does your Rogers connect back to John Rogers who first married Sarah Cordery (GA)? -----Original Message----- >From: "Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen" <jerri@cherokee.net> >Sent: Aug 31, 2006 11:58 AM >To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com >Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions of enrollment > >DocJeep371 wrote: > >>"<snip> A decendent of his, Nepoleon Boneparte Thornton, applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition?" >> >Actually, the application filed by N. B. Thornton in 1896 was number >#3401. It was filed, rejected and appealed. As a result, the entire file >was forwarded to the commission. I did not find a copy of the original >application in my collection, but you may find it at the Ft Worth Branch >of the National Archives. > >Good luck > >Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen >Claremore > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My grandfather came out of IT... he said his children were part Cherokee (some say Choctaw)... he is in AR by 1884, but where did he come from? They are listed in the 1900 census Garland Co, AR Hot Springs Township as follows: Roach, James M. b. 12/1866 age 33m. 15 years b Indian Territory Henrietta, wife, b. 8/1863 age 28 born in TN Ida Bell, dau. b. 4/1887, age 13 born in AR David C., son b. 5/1889, age 11, born in AR Jesse A., son, b. 11/1891, age 8 born in AR William M., son, born 4/1895, age 5, born in AR Pessie Lee, dau. born 1/1893, age 7, born in AR John S., son, born 8/1898, age 1, born in AR Boyd, Alford W., brother b. 3/1872, age 28, single, born TN [common laborer] Boyd, Fannie M., mother b. 9/1841, age 54, widow, had 7 children, 5 living born in TN listed as housekeeper. 1910 census of Garland Co ROACH, JAMES 50 married 1 time 25 yrs. b OK, parents b OK Henrietta E. (Boyd) 40 married 1 time 25 yrs. 10 children born, 6 living b TN parents b TN Ida dau 23 single b AR, Father b OK, mother b TN Dave son 21 single b " " " " " Will son 15 single b " " " " Sam son 13 single b " " " " " Pearl dau. 8 single b " " " " Jim son 6 single b " " " " He has left IT before the rolls... where does one search? He might have been from an "Intruder" family, although one census indicates his parents were from OK. That would be 1830 1845... who was there then? I am thinking we may never know the answers. L Green

Jean, log in to "Pitter's Cherokee Trails" - "http://rosecitynet/cherokee/blackdutch My grandmother claimed she was "Black Dutch" - I haven't gotten into Her history yet. Ken baker, Santa Maria, CA -----Original Message----- From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jean Cloke Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:33 AM To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about this. As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm tr! ying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to ideas. Have a good day, Jean ----- Original Message ----- From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.c om> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they WERE part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would guess...this was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee withdrew from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that time. Fron what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the area where the Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, married into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to the intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred to as the Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to not admit native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of native. This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that this removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern Cherokee Nations that depict this removal. Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women and Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction by their Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with others, non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my Mitchell family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the Chattanooga area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their children. There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their background. From there they traveled to AR. So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, in areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived (as a tribe). These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were cited to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an area.....but the native blood would still have been present, even if there was intermarriage. jes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-re quest@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006

Interesting, in that I have a BENGE, "...Abel Sparks (the elder) married Elizabeth Benge. She was the daughter of Thomas Benge of Wilkes County, North Carolina, as is proved by the will of Thomas Benge dated January 21, 1811...." In following Abel Sparks (my grgrgr)there were Iriah b. 1797 NC; Citizen Napoleon Bonapart Sparks b. 1841; Rueben 1877 GA(my grandfather). I have read about BENGE, which one I don't remember but there was Indian Relationship. Contact me at 'kenebaker@comcast.net' -----Original Message----- From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of DocJeep371@aol.com Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:53 AM To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions ofenrollment I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon Boneparte Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His Indian blood may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a claim of Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this? ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: 8/31/2006

What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they WERE part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would guess...this was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee withdrew from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that time. Fron what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the area where the Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, married into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to the intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred to as the Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to not admit native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of native. This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that this removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern Cherokee Nations that depict this removal. Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women and Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction by their Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with others, non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my Mitchell family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the Chattanooga area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their children. There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their background. From there they traveled to AR. So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, in areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived (as a tribe). These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were cited to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an area.....but the native blood would still have been present, even if there was intermarriage. jes

Hello Mary Beth - Of all the 550 so tribes recognized by the United States government, according to popular belief, the Cherokees seem to be the one that left the largest number of mixed descendents. That is rather interesting since the Navaho have the highest enrollment and they require 1/4 blood to be a member of that tribe. Nonetheless, you should examine the geographical location of your ancestors and have some understanding of Cherokee history so that you have a greater chance of examining the probability that you have a Cherokee ancestor. Smith (1815) and Stone (1817) where in the distant Northeast whereas the Cherokees were located in the North Georgia, Eastern Tennessee, Western North Carolina, and northeastern Alabama at those dates. In addition at that time the Cherokee were traditional. While intermarriages with white traders who lived amongst them took place, for the most part marriages were following their traditional patterns. The possibility of a Cherokee being in Vermont or New York would be slim to non existent and the movement of their offspring to the midwest would be futher away from the Cherokee homelands. If you have an ancestress from Wisconsin and/or Canada there might be a possibility of "Indian" genes from the tribes in those areas. So many of the Canadian Indians intermarried with the French and other Europeans that a new cultural/biological group arose called the Metis. Based on what you have posted, I would not be looking for a Cherokee ancestor but examine the possibility that if there are "Indian genes" they are most likely from the northern tribes - Wisconsin or Canada. You might talk to a representative from your nearest Family History Center of the Church of the Latter Day Saints. They may be able to direct you to the appropriate documents that are held in the Library at Salt Lake City for genealogical information on wisconin and/or Canadian tribes. Much of the library's holdings are on microfilm which can be loaned to the local Family History Centers. Good luck in your search. L. Duffield ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary Beth<mailto:aakede@bellsouth.net> To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com<mailto:Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:21 PM Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone Hi, My name is Mary Beth Bearden. I am in search of Indian ancestors. I am told that I am part Cherokee but was never told for sure by which ancestor, although it is believed to be Winthrop Franklin Poore. My siblings and I as well as Mom and Grandma (deceased) do have the Indian look so I believe it. Here are names and dates of family that may possibly be the ancestor: Samuel Hastings Smith, b. June 16, 1815 in Vermont. Married Jane Stone, b. September 29, 1817 in New York. Their daughter Emily Augusta Smith b. October 6, 1856 in Iowa was my great great grandmother. The other side of my family had the last name of Poore or Poore. My great grandfather was Winthrop Franklin Poore, b. Sept. 13, 1879 in Concordia, Cloud County, KS. His wife Irene Hazel Pixley, b. June 20, 1880 in Grant, Jewell County, KS. Winthrop Franklin who went by Frank - his mother was Angelia Nicea Roberts, b. Feb. 25, 1850 in Hartford, Washington County, Wisconsin. Angelia's mother was Priscilla Meador and was called an OddFellow woman of which I have no idea what that means but I do know that Priscilla was born in Canada about 1825 and died in Cloud County, KS on Feb. 27, 1893. Angelia's father was Joshua Roberts, b. March 27, 1820 in Bergens, Vermont and died in Sibley, Cloud Count, KS Sept. 29, 1908. If anyone has already researched any of these folks, please let me know. And am always happy for advice in my hunting. Blessings, Mary Beth Bearden ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I do not understand why I should unsubscribe? ----- Original Message ----- From: Janbinn@aol.com<mailto:Janbinn@aol.com> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:44 PM Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] (no subject) Please unsubscribe ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The person sending the email was trying to unsubscribe, and when you send an email to the group addy every one on the group gets it...it wasn't telling you to unsubscribe, but rather the person sending it was requesting to unsub. To actually unsubscribe the person should do the following, rather than send that to the group: To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Hope that helps, Carla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lathel Duffield" <Lathel_Duf@msn.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] (no subject) >I do not understand why I should unsubscribe? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Janbinn@aol.com<mailto:Janbinn@aol.com> > To: > indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:44 PM > Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] (no subject) > > > Please unsubscribe > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I don't know any of your relatives but there was a Meador family in Kay County, Ok. The one I new was called Alvie but I don't know what his given name. Also, The Odd Fellows is/was a lodge group, much like the Lions or Masons. You might be able to contact their group and find your relatives. Sherry