Hi, Perhaps if the BIA is having fiscal problems they might consider offering genealogical services - for a price. So many people seem interested. And so many families have the lore of Indian ancestry. W.L. Barker

Cherokee lineage: Does anyone here have any any information on the Pathkiller or Eldridge lines? Brian Milligan brian_milligan@excite.com --- On Thu 08/31, Lathel Duffield < Lathel_Duf@msn.com > wrote: From: Lathel Duffield [mailto: Lathel_Duf@msn.com] To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:30:24 -0400 Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone For a comprehensive and contemporary overview of Cherokee History, check out the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma web site and see where the 32 hour+ history course is being offered and enroll. For ten bucks a person gets lectures with lots of audio visuals and a 2 1/4 inch thick "book" made of copies of original documents. Cherokee Nation subsidizes this course and it is offered in cities from the East Coast to the West Coasts. When I attended the course in Washington DC there were people who had traveled there from Indiana and New York City. The compilation of documents is only available to enrollees in the course. It is a course that all employees of the Cherokee Nation must take. The lecturer is really good and she encourages lots of discussion so that myths and misinformation about the tribe can be dispelled. No exams just lively discussions and presentations. There are stories (myths in some cases) about trying to disguise or hide Indian heritage. In some parts o! f the country attitudes on part of the whites are conducive to keeping silent about Indian heritage. Once when I was in South Dakota I was told never to mention I was of Indian descent. The people in that town even required Indians to be buried in a separate cemetery. Hopefully it is still not that way today. The historical rolls that were taken at various times in the Cherokee Nation's history introduced to white society the idea of recording amount of Indian "blood", I.e. 1/4, 1/2, full. which in later times became standard procedure to determine "Indianness". This is because the white belief was that "blood" carried the ability of people to handle their affairs. Blue bloods, good blood, bad blood are terms which reflect this period of white thought. After all, this was before people knew about genes creating physical/mental characteristics and the society be! lieved you "inherited" your abilities thru the blood. Those Indians with less "Indian blood" and more white blood were more "civilized." If a person had more Indian blood, then they were less civilized. The Indians didn't care about this categorization because they recognized tribal affiliation on the basis of other traits or actions. So within the "Cherokee" population at the time of removal there were Catawbas, Creeks, and Chickasaws but they were considered to be citizens and only the whites insisted on noting the origins of these families. If a person and/or family was considered by the tribe as tribal members, then they were Cherokee and subject to tribal authority and laws. The Cherokees being agricultural had black slaves who were not considered members. When John Ross and family were removed they carried with them on the steam ship, 22+ slaves but one Cherokee plantation owner in Georgia had over 100. On the Henderson Roll (Removal Roll), the number of sla! ves possessed by a family appears. Traders with the Indians had to be licensed by the colonial governments. So a person could not be legally involved with the Indians unless they were permitted. Of course there were renegades who tried to horn in on this but generally these people were quickly rooted out by the colonial authorities. After all, part of the resources of the colony was that that provided by the Indian trade and that required supervision with authorized traders. Rules established trade standards about values, weights and measures our word "buck" for a dollar comes from the value of one deer skin (buck). The native resources involved in the trade had to be taken to shipping ports and loaded on to ships and the colonial authorities were there to record the number of skins, etc that were part of that trading process as well. Indian citizens were free to move about and some did leave the tribe and dropped their citizenship. For these people, there would be no documentation to show their original tribal membership. While stories about ancestry might be handed down within their descendents, there would be no way of proving their biological heritage. Family myths about ancestry abound but careful genealogical research is required to determine the documented truth. There is a large number of people in the Southeastern United States that believe they are descended from a "tribe" call the Blackfeet" or "Blackfoot." Such a tribe never lived in the southeastern US. There is a "Blackfoot" Tribe on the Idaho Canadian border but they never occupied the Southeastern U.S. When I once pointed out this to an individual who said she was "Blackfoot" from Georgia, her reply, "I don't care what you say, my daddy says that is our ancestry and he does not lie." Family myths and stories die hard. ----- Original Message ----- From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:01 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they WERE part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would guess...this was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee withdrew from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that time. Fron what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the area where the Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, married into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to the intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." One other point I'd like to make...which ! I am willing to hear other perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred to as the Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that (Cherokee, Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to not admit native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of native. This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that this removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern Cherokee Nations that depict this removal. Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women and Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction by their Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with others, non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my Mitchell family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the Chattanooga area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their children. There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their background. From there they traveled to AR. So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, in areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived (as a tribe). These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were cited to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an area.....but the native blood would still have been present, even if there was intermarriage. jes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -------------------------------To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _______________________________________________ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web!

maybe ask for donations from those who care? Also. Dan M ----- Original Message ----- From: <TopBranchW@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:16 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information aboutpetitionsof enrollm... > Hi, > > Perhaps if the BIA is having fiscal problems they might consider offering > genealogical services - for a price. So many people seem interested. And so > many families have the lore of Indian ancestry. > > W.L. Barker > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Yessss Jes long time no see/ hear... as you can see I'm STILL around. lol Still learning.. searching.. search for a while, go crazy connecting the people... quit for a while start again.. My maternal side was so much easier to connect Paternal side seems everyone is gone, but cousins someplace that are my age. I can't even find them. The love of the land,animals, Plants, old ways I find were handed down just as a child who knew it would be so important to be listening. We get older we get wiser Hopefully. Maternal side I listened, learned they were proud of the heritage more . I'm gonna talk to my brother about the dna testing.. since he's only person I know... it'nt it better to have him tested than me for Paternal? anyone find any Johnsons / Porters they can't connect get with me, From Ky, Tn, WV... get with me, we might be kin!! The Carter side was Dutch i think... then again my grandfather only said "Marry your own , INDIAN DUTCH" that can be taken a couple different ways now.... Paula Carter Uhrig

Whoa The BIA (Bureau of Indian Affairs) DOES NOT do genealogical look up. At present with all the slashing of the budget, the enrollment office now has one person and she handles only tribal enrollment issues. When I started with the BIA there were 7 employees handling enrollment problems for the tribes. The office has never provided independent research for the general public. The BIA public information office may have a packet of information on searching Indian ancestry but that would include only the most obvious information such as providing email addresses for National Archives and Record Service or the Fort Worth regional office of the Archives and perhaps a list of local Family History Centers. The BIA is not available on line currently. I am an retired BIA employee. Lathel Duffield ----- Original Message ----- From: J W Kite Jr<mailto:obengekite@juno.com> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 12:08 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitionsof enrollment Oklahoma Historical Society has copies of papers when they enrolled..and the Eastern Cherokee Claims. Also, all you've gotta do is write the Bureau of Indian Affairs called BIA in Washington, D. C.The name is Wurteh. Sarah Fields was a white woman. TheThornton Family in Oklahoma were Cherokees. A group of Cherokees left the Tribe and came to Arkansas in 1817 and were known at first as the New Settlers. Anytime a Cherokee left the Tribe then he was on his own and could not claim anything. The Trail of Tears took place in 1838 and as they came through Arkansas the Cherokees living there were given the chance to rejoin the Tribe and come into Indian Territory. When enrollment took place many did not enroll because they didn't trust the Government and thought this was another ruse to steal anything else they could. OHS would have the what you are calling a Petition 1301. None of this is free tho.How is Napoleon Bonapart related to Old Trader? Old Trader if my Granffather back there, however his first wife is my Grandmother -not Wurteh. Oleta E. Benge Kite in OKC. On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:53:25 EDT DocJeep371@aol.com<mailto:DocJeep371@aol.com> writes: > I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married > to > Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his > Nepoleon Boneparte > Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings > on > petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? > His Indian blood > may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from > a claim of > Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for > this? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Oh....also wanted to let y'all know that the Western Nation's site (Cherokee) also has a language class availability....and a newsletter that keeps you up to date on the activities. They also have the Holiday, this coming weekend, to commemorate their passage to OK....in Tahlequah..the nation's capital. I enjoyed staying there, and a visit to their museum....(as well as the Eastern, in Cherokee, NC). With a visit to the Eastern i(which is right near the Smoky's)...you would want to pick a good time...weather wise, to visit. jes

No, the area of Paducah would have been, for the most part, Shawnee Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: <HealTheCircle@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:47 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch > In my research I also found that there were thoughts that the CHhckamaugan > took refuge with other tribes....as there was safety in numbers. Is the > area > of Paducah, KY an area that is in your history....of the Overhill > Cherokee?? > This area comes up in my husband's familty...the Rountrees (and Hickman's > on > his grandmother's side). > > jes > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >

Not sure if you got that if your folks were of native (Cherokee blood) and in OK before the removal....then more than likely they were the Old Settlers. These are Cherokee who originally abdicated their rights to the land in what was Cherokee territory, and first went to MO. Then in about pre 1817, because of the flooding of that are (I believe), they were offered land in AR. In 1817 they were moved to OK, and that put them there before the Removal in the 1830's. It's also interesting to note that when the folks came in from the Removal (Trail of Tears)....there was some initial civil war between the ones already there (Old Settlers) and the new arrivals. Then a committee or council was formed of folks from both groups to fashion a way of living together. This is a very brief synopsis of what happened. I'd look at both the Keetowah Band of Cherokee in OK...and the Western Nation's site online to get the details. jes

Hey "sparklineyes" this is Jes...long time no talk. I would also like to point out, that if we talk about "native" by ability to carry a "card"....yes we need to be able to trace back to the rolls (Eastern Cherokee, different rolls than Western). But if you read the account of the Creeks, and how they felt about the "rolls", you'll see it was the last ditch effort, of the US Government, to assimilate them into the white culture; by breaking up their communal culture, and assigning land as the white culture did. This was done to open OK to statehood (once again about money and resources), and settling of non native folks. There is a good article written about the native sentiment....called "Of Snakes and Scribes" (paraphrased). This is also chronicled as the biggest theft of land by those pretending to be native...who were not. No investigation, or retribution was ever done to make it right either. But, if we are talking about carrying blood, and tradition.....then I say that to count yourself as native, by the US governments method is buying into that whole thing. Trace your ancestry....and see if you can trace it back to the original territories assigned to the tribe. If you can't document it, so be it, but in your heart you know you are native. Also, the describing of ethnicity as "black dutch" or "black irish" is a pretty good sign you are on the right track. Also, look at the traditions in your families...were there healers....was there a reverence for the land and your caretaking of it....the gathering of herbs.....etc. Those are also good "clues" combined with other information. Their are traditions of the tribes from the plains areas, that have to do with horse breeding and training. For instance the Nez Perz, are counted as the owers, breeders, etc., of the Appaloosa horse. It is a good thing to know what tribes inhabited what areas.....before the onslaught of the eastern europeans. But, then you will also have to follow the individual histories of each of those tribes, to see where they ended up....or parts of them ended up. That in itself is a major class at some universities. However, I do know that each tribe (both Western and Eastern Cherokee), who have websites today....many...have individual histories on them. So, find out who was where, and get online to do your research. This will also educate you as to how these tribes are functioning in todays world. Understanding that at the time of the first invasions...there were over 200 tribes....and now there are over 500. jes This sharing of mutual histories is always beneficial. But if we are talking about establishing proof to ourselves that there is a likelihood that we have native blood, being a card carrying member is not always nesessary. We know what's in our hearts and minds.

Does anyone have any information regarding this family? I had managed to make contact with one of my great-grandfather's sister's descendants, but they don't seem interested in maintaining contact since I have not heard from my relative's wife for about two months now. The family I am looking for are of African/Native American descent. My grandfather's name was Jackson Cox, and his parents' names were Dave and Mary (nee Lewis) Cox. I have actually seen their enrollment card in the Chickasaw Nation, since she was a full-blood. Pierce and Lenora (or was it Lorena?) Cox were Jackson's brother and sister-in-law, and Jackson also had a brother named Leonard. Mary seems to have used a few names in her time, if I am reading the censuses correctly; i.e. Melinda/Malinda and Effelendia. Besides my grandfather, Dwight (Sonny, as he was known as throughout his life) Cox/Tyler, Jackson had two sons with his first wife who died when she was still quite young (her name is difficult to read in the 1900 census, but I believe it was Lydia). Their names were Alonzo/Lonzo and Lincoln. Both Alonzo and Lincoln served in World War I because I have copies of their papers on my computer at home when they enlisted in Atoka City, I believe. After the death of their mother, Jackson married my grandmother, Ole Ruffin, on Septem ber 12th, 1905 in Wapanucka, Indian Territory, and my grandfather was born the following year. I don't think the marriage was a successful one because in 1910, Grandpa Sonny and his mother are enumerated as living with her parents, Charles and Matilda Ruffin, shortly before they left for Canada either later that same year or the following year. I did not know until I was thirty-something that my last name should not have been Tyler. There is some question as to whether or not my Grandma Ole was legally divorced from Jackson Cox when she married a Mr. George Tyler after emigrating to Canada, hence my last name. I have a brother who actually changed his name legally to Cox for this reason. I have only recently learned that Mr. Tyler probably was not a good stepfather to my grandfather (in fact, he appears to have been quite abusive). My dear great-grandmother died in October, 1919 due to the Spanish influenza epidemic that was sweeping the globe back then, and is buried right here in the City of Edmonton, Alberta, where I have lived my entire life. These are facts that have only come to light since I began an earnest genealogical search for my true Oklahoma roots. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who might be related to me or knows anything about my family. I am grateful for help and thank you in advance for any assistance you can give me. Kelly Tyler

In my research I also found that there were thoughts that the CHhckamaugan took refuge with other tribes....as there was safety in numbers. Is the area of Paducah, KY an area that is in your history....of the Overhill Cherokee?? This area comes up in my husband's familty...the Rountrees (and Hickman's on his grandmother's side). jes

Hi List, Would the person who has the test done male or female? And who do you contact about getting the test done? KDSGON@aol.com wrote: If you really want to know, have your oldest family member do a DNA test. Family Tree does this and will tell you if you are "Indian" I supposedly have some Indian but it would be 64th or 128th at best. I show no Indian ancestry. Sherry ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Raylene Magee www.rootsweb.com/~oklatime www.rootsweb.com/~oklchgs --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

Oklahoma Historical Society has copies of papers when they enrolled..and the Eastern Cherokee Claims. Also, all you've gotta do is write the Bureau of Indian Affairs called BIA in Washington, D. C.The name is Wurteh. Sarah Fields was a white woman. TheThornton Family in Oklahoma were Cherokees. A group of Cherokees left the Tribe and came to Arkansas in 1817 and were known at first as the New Settlers. Anytime a Cherokee left the Tribe then he was on his own and could not claim anything. The Trail of Tears took place in 1838 and as they came through Arkansas the Cherokees living there were given the chance to rejoin the Tribe and come into Indian Territory. When enrollment took place many did not enroll because they didn't trust the Government and thought this was another ruse to steal anything else they could. OHS would have the what you are calling a Petition 1301. None of this is free tho.How is Napoleon Bonapart related to Old Trader? Old Trader if my Granffather back there, however his first wife is my Grandmother -not Wurteh. Oleta E. Benge Kite in OKC. On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 12:53:25 EDT DocJeep371@aol.com writes: > I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married > to > Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his > Nepoleon Boneparte > Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings > on > petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? > His Indian blood > may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from > a claim of > Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for > this? > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

If you really want to know, have your oldest family member do a DNA test. Family Tree does this and will tell you if you are "Indian" I supposedly have some Indian but it would be 64th or 128th at best. I show no Indian ancestry. Sherry

okay now that makes me wonder if my Paternal side was'nt Creek.. I've been trying to connect the Cherokee with that side family. Just another twist in this family history... My great aunt I know did'nt tell me grandma was Cherokee, she said some other tribe. This is when i should have listened better!! I assumed with the area (Wv, Tn) she was Cherokee blood... More research needed!! Thanks Joyce For another angle to look at... Paula Carter Uhrig

Please realize that the Chickamauga families were descendents of the Overhill Cherokee and were heavily co-habitating with the Creek of the same area. Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: <Sparklineyez@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch > Okay The Chickamaugan clicked in my head.. as we have thought some of > my > people were that blood line. Just keep searching on that.. theres some > interesting research on that.. Some particular Pyhsical features etc... > My Paternal side family also mentioned the word Black dutch.. That has > been a BRICK WALL to get info thru.. > > best of luck! > > Paula Carter Uhrig > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Cloke" <gjcloke@msn.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com>what part of Oklahoma Indian territory do you live. I am a native born MuskoMiami,ok (Oklahoma Territory" cora miller gee Oklahoman but am now living in Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Black Dutch > Hi, I am new to the list. I find this discussion fascinating. I live in > Oklahoma in the part that was Indian Territory and have been interested in > the history of the Native American tribes that were moved to this area for > a long time. I have done some research, but still don't feel I have even a > rudimentary understanding. Some of you seem to have more knowledge about > this. > > As mentioned, some families said they were Black Dutch in order to hide > their Indian heritage. My family was one of them. My paternal grandmother > told us we were Black Dutch. She even had a wooden shoe that someone had > bought as a souvenir somewhere, so I was totally sure we had Dutch > ancestors until the late 1980's. I had already started doing some research > and couldn't find anything about what part of Holland the Black Dutch were > from. I had the opportunity to met a Dutch missionary who visited our > church and asked him. He had no idea what I was talking about and told me > there was no such thing as Black Dutch. After more research I found out > that it was a cover for being Indian. We had also been told we had some > Indian, probably Cherokee. It seems that as it became less taboo to be > Indian, the family finally began admitting it, but later generations knew > so little that the tribal affiliation had been lost during the years they > were trying to keep it a secret. So now I'm tr! > ying to figure out what tribe or tribes and have had no luck on the rolls. > > This discussion on where tribes were during what period is helpful. My > ancestors that supposedly married into Indian tribes were from Germany > originally. The Dibler's came through Pennsylvania (1700's- Abt. 1855), > Ohio (Abt. 1859-1866), Indiana (1867-1870's), Arkansas (1880-1896/7), and > Oklahoma/Indian Territory (1897/8-present). > > My other branch, the Sigman's immigrated from Germany in 1738 to > Pennsylvania, by the early 1790's they were in Lincoln Co., NC. They moved > around some in NC, then to Rockcastle Co., KY (1840's-50's), Linn Co., KS > (1850's-1870), Benton Co., AR (1870's-present) where Rhoda Ann Sigman > married William Geo. Dibler in 1884. They came to Oklahoma in about 1902. > Some of the Dibler's were already here at that time. > > Anyone have any ideas about what tribes they might be based on the area's > where they lived? Pictures & history of both branches from my grandmother > indicates the intermarriage was long before they got to Oklahoma/Indian > Territory. I have considered Cherokee, Choctaw, and Seminole, but open to > ideas. > > Have a good day, > Jean > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: HealTheCircle@aol.com<mailto:HealTheCircle@aol.com> > To: > indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:01 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Hello everyone > > > What's rather interesting about the Cherokee, is that at one time, they > WERE > part of the Iroquois Confederacy (6 Eastern Tribes). I would > guess...this > was earlier than the 1770's. This was when the Chickamaugan Cherokee > withdrew > from the other Cherokee, because of their ceding of land to the whites. > So...the ceding of land, and intermarriages had already begun by that > time. Fron > what I can tell, the early settlers, were folks who worked in fur > trade...which brought them in very close contact with the natives in the > area where the > Cherokee lived. The first settlers lived with the native people, > married > into the tribe, and were considered part of the tribe. > > I would also read James Mooney's book...about the Cherokee previous to > the > intermarrying with the white culture. I think the name of the book is > "History, Myths, and Secret Formulas of the Cherokee." > > One other point I'd like to make...which I am willing to hear other > perceptions on...is that in the 1830's when the removal began (referred > to as the > Trail of Tears)....some native families who were involved in that > (Cherokee, > Choctaw, Chickasaw, Seminole, and Creek), instructed their children to > not admit > native blood, to escape the removal. There is talk of admitting "black > dutch", "black irish", or sometimes "italian" or "greek" instead of > native. > This is understandable if you view the horror, loss of life, etc., that > this > removal perpetrated. There are museums at the Western and Eastern > Cherokee > Nations that depict this removal. > > Also, previous to this in about 1817, there was a "Massacre of 100 Women > and > Children", of the Chickamaugan Cherokee, not far from Ross's Landing, in > what is now Chattanooga, TN. on their way to safety. The instruction > by their > Chief was to save the rest of the children, by sending them off with > others, > non native, to be raised as other than native (my history....on my > Mitchell > family). My family found them at a campground in what is now the > Chattanooga > area, and took them West with them to Henryville, TN....as their > children. > There they intermarried with other families who also had native in their > background. From there they traveled to AR. > > So....it is possible that people, with native blood, could have ended up, > in > areas that were not designated, as the areas in which those tribes lived > (as > a tribe). > > These brief descriptions of history (of which I am a novice) only were > cited > to show that there events previous to the birth times of her people, that > could have brought a person who was not a "fullblood" into an > area.....but the > native blood would still have been present, even if there was > intermarriage. > > jes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com> > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the message > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >

Okay The Chickamaugan clicked in my head.. as we have thought some of my people were that blood line. Just keep searching on that.. theres some interesting research on that.. Some particular Pyhsical features etc... My Paternal side family also mentioned the word Black dutch.. That has been a BRICK WALL to get info thru.. best of luck! Paula Carter Uhrig

Mary Beth I hate to tell you but many, many of the other Narionalities have looks similar to the Indians.Cherokees were never in Vermont nor any of the other States you,ve mentioned. The Enrollment on the Cherokees took place in Indian Territory and ended in 1906 and to actually have definite proof, you'd have to find them on the rolls, You can find many Cherokees who are blue eyed, skin color light, and pass as totally white people. Ok in OKC On Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:21:45 -0500 "Mary Beth" <aakede@bellsouth.net> writes: > Hi, > > My name is Mary Beth Bearden. I am in search of Indian ancestors. > I am told that I am part Cherokee but was never told for sure by > which ancestor, although it is believed to be Winthrop Franklin > Poore. My siblings and I as well as Mom and Grandma (deceased) do > have the Indian look so I believe it. > > Here are names and dates of family that may possibly be the > ancestor: Samuel Hastings Smith, b. June 16, 1815 in Vermont. > Married Jane Stone, b. September 29, 1817 in New York. Their > daughter Emily Augusta Smith b. October 6, 1856 in Iowa was my great > great grandmother. > > The other side of my family had the last name of Poore or Poore. My > great grandfather was Winthrop Franklin Poore, b. Sept. 13, 1879 in > Concordia, Cloud County, KS. His wife Irene Hazel Pixley, b. June > 20, 1880 in Grant, Jewell County, KS. Winthrop Franklin who went by > Frank - his mother was Angelia Nicea Roberts, b. Feb. 25, 1850 in > Hartford, Washington County, Wisconsin. Angelia's mother was > Priscilla Meador and was called an OddFellow woman of which I have > no idea what that means but I do know that Priscilla was born in > Canada about 1825 and died in Cloud County, KS on Feb. 27, 1893. > Angelia's father was Joshua Roberts, b. March 27, 1820 in Bergens, > Vermont and died in Sibley, Cloud Count, KS Sept. 29, 1908. > > If anyone has already researched any of these folks, please let me > know. And am always happy for advice in my hunting. > > Blessings, > > Mary Beth Bearden > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

I can send you to Shirley Seiting E-mail Address(es): mim@wmis.net She is working somewhat on this line. If you aren't on the Lawson list you should join that too Lawson-request@rootsweb.com I think it was migrated today so the sub address will have changed. If it doesn't work use the usual Lawson-L-request@rootsweb.com Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Kennedy" <pat-igree-kenn@charter.net> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:08 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting informationaboutpetitionsofenrollment > Pat Kennedy here: > > Could you give me a little more info about the LAWSON line? I have a > William Lawson line from KY to Dallas Co., MO. My Mahala Lawson, md: > James > Phariss before 1850 in Dallas Co., MO and left for CA...with the other > Phariss brothers and families in the early 1850's. > pat-igree-kenn@charter.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joyce G. Reece" <bjreece@bellsouth.net> > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:26 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information > aboutpetitionsofenrollment > > >>I don't think the Cherokee lineage is in doubt. If you want the correct >> information join the Benge list and ask for Oleta. >> Benge-request@rootsweb.com >> >> And if yo know of a connection to the Lawson family in this conundrum >> please >> let us know. >> >> Joyce Gaston Reece >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ken Baker" <Kenebaker@comcast.net> >> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:01 PM >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about >> petitionsofenrollment >> >> >>> Interesting, in that I have a BENGE, "...Abel Sparks (the elder) married >>> Elizabeth Benge. She was the daughter of Thomas Benge of Wilkes County, >>> North Carolina, as is proved by the will of Thomas Benge dated January >>> 21, >>> 1811...." >>> In following Abel Sparks (my grgrgr)there were Iriah b. 1797 NC; Citizen >>> Napoleon Bonapart Sparks b. 1841; Rueben 1877 GA(my grandfather). >>> I have read about BENGE, which one I don't remember but there was Indian >>> Relationship. >>> >>> Contact me at 'kenebaker@comcast.net' >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com >>> [mailto:indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of >>> DocJeep371@aol.com >>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:53 AM >>> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information about petitions >>> ofenrollment >>> >>> I have traced my ancestory back to Trader John Benge who was married to >>> Warteh of the Red Paint Clan around 1861. A decendent of his Nepoleon >>> Boneparte >>> Thornton applied for enrollment along with several of his siblings on >>> petition #4301. How do I find out the results of this petition? His >>> Indian blood >>> may have been through the Sarah Fielder side of the family or from a >>> claim >>> of >>> Cherokee by marriage through John Benge. Any help out there for this? >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/435 - Release Date: >>> 8/31/2006 >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: >>> 8/30/2006 >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/434 - Release Date: 8/30/2006 > >