In answer to the question concerning info on the Dawes census. [input] [input] [input] [input] After I looked up census card numbers and rolls numbers on the NARA site, I wrote to the Oklahoma Historical Society and requested a copy of the Dawes census card and the application packet. It was a wealth of information. The application packet had the actual testimony with questions and answers. The final cost depends on how many pages. One of mine was $12 and the other $15. I found this small sum to be worth the price though and am considering getting some more. I've also been able to go to the Federal Archives in DC and make my own copies, which they allow you to do after signing in and paying the copying fee. Of course at the Archives, you have to know what you're looking for as you have to do the research on the microfilm yourself. CJ --------------------------------- Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.

You cannot unsubscribe this way. Go to the bottom of this e-mail and you will see how to do it so it will work. ----- Original Message ----- From: <dott114029@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 07, 2006 3:12 PM Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] unsubscribe > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: HealTheCircle@aol.com > To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com > Sent: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 5:21 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] 1834 emigration > > > Well....Georgia and the gold is the reason I believe the removal was > pushed > along. First GA started doing stuff as a state to get the natives out of > there.....and then Andrew Jackson finally stepped in. I think if you read > the > history from about when the CHerokee were enlisted to fight with Jackson, > against the Creeks....with the payment being the Creek land...you'll see > the > hand > writing on the wall. > > Georgians weren't getting the kind of support they wanted from the US > Government, so they enacted stuff on a state level. Many whites, who wer > friends > of the Cherokee went to the US Government and asked for intervention. > Then > laws were enacted that didn't allow the whites to live with or > intermarry. > This was a law that the Georgians enacted to keep white "friends" of the > Cherokee (etc) to speak for them on a federal level. > > Jackson had to intervene....as these friends who were well known folks > appealed on the federal level...but he didn't give them federal troops to > uphold > > that federal intervention....purposely. > > This is all paraphased ....please go back to Georgia history...previous to > the removal and folow that to the actual laws that Jackson finally > enacted....to remove all natives from those areas. > > jes > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > the message > ________________________________________________________________________ > Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and > IM. All on demand. Always Free. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

-----Original Message----- From: HealTheCircle@aol.com To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 5:21 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] 1834 emigration Well....Georgia and the gold is the reason I believe the removal was pushed along. First GA started doing stuff as a state to get the natives out of there.....and then Andrew Jackson finally stepped in. I think if you read the history from about when the CHerokee were enlisted to fight with Jackson, against the Creeks....with the payment being the Creek land...you'll see the hand writing on the wall. Georgians weren't getting the kind of support they wanted from the US Government, so they enacted stuff on a state level. Many whites, who wer friends of the Cherokee went to the US Government and asked for intervention. Then laws were enacted that didn't allow the whites to live with or intermarry. This was a law that the Georgians enacted to keep white "friends" of the Cherokee (etc) to speak for them on a federal level. Jackson had to intervene....as these friends who were well known folks appealed on the federal level...but he didn't give them federal troops to uphold that federal intervention....purposely. This is all paraphased ....please go back to Georgia history...previous to the removal and folow that to the actual laws that Jackson finally enacted....to remove all natives from those areas. jes ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ________________________________________________________________________ Check out AOL.com today. Breaking news, video search, pictures, email and IM. All on demand. Always Free.

One of my other rootsweb lists mentioned this site on the Melungeons. I thought someone might find it interesting. http://www.geocities.com/ourmelungeons/front.html Judy ---- Carla B <soarsister@cableone.net> wrote: ============= Don't let the Blue eyes fool you! My middle son is Indian Choctaw Tribal member and has Blond hair and blue eyes...get's it from his swedish mom! My oldest has black eyes and coal black hair, and my youngest has grenn/blue eyes and brown hair. My husband has Brown eyes, brown hair. Carla ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Very interesting article! Thank-you for posting the link. F.Y.I., I'm still trying to sort through the 1837 RIDGE / CHILDERS connection in the Honey Creek area. - - - - - - - - - By-the-way -- it's always so nice to *see* you online. :-) Peace & blessings to you & those you love... Cathy (In Minnesota) <>< . A very wise person once said: . ....."Remember when we once talked of how they *must* have known each other? And there they were, next door neighbors." ... . ========================================================= . In a message dated 9/5/2006 10:07:55 PM Central Standard Time, Lldurham@aol.com writes: "With respect to the issue of who we are, I found this newspaper article very interesting" : _deseretnews.com | Roots of human tree remarkably shallow_ (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640197156,00.html) _http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640197156,00.html_ (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,640197156,00.html) .

thank you I've felt much frustration of late your pep talk gave me hope. In searching 4 my grandma (roxie lamasters) Cherokee roots I fond grandpa'(Harley mayfield) Cherokee blood line.His grt grandmother (jack Brant sued James mayfield 4 paternity ,won then had 5 more kids with him, she was full blood Cherokee according to court doc.But my goal is to find grandma Mayfield's Cherokee connections.In honor of this little women whose life was very hard I keep looking Sparklineyez@aol.com wrote: In earlier times, the blood amount was calculated (guessed) by the person conducting the census. There were no documents or other records that "proved" the amount of Indian blood and individual possessed. That was'nt real scientific NOW WAS IT? mY BLUE EYES & BLONDE HAIR WOULD MEAN i'm none!! I remember my grandfather always showing me things in nature..Love for the land, animals, plants that could be used for different purposes.. Never take More than is needed.. What my great grandmother would wear & the stories she would tell him so he could retell & practice. Alot was lost but, I count my self lucky to have had some things taught to me. I don't know HOW much my blood is native.. it's nOT important for me to have an amount anymore. To me it's more what was it like back then.. the things family had to endure. It;s the connection with the past.... people we never got to meet that are a part of me. What struggles, joys they had. Don't give up on the genealogy.. someone told me once it;s like fishing.. ya never know what you'll get.. maybe a bite, nibble here & there. Full surprises... PaUla ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

and an Bybee, Ellis and DH, Rosa Champ, and Thelma Hoover and a Jackson Baker. Carla

Ken have you looked here: http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalindex.php There are a lot of Bakers there. Carla

Don't let the Blue eyes fool you! My middle son is Indian Choctaw Tribal member and has Blond hair and blue eyes...get's it from his swedish mom! My oldest has black eyes and coal black hair, and my youngest has grenn/blue eyes and brown hair. My husband has Brown eyes, brown hair. Carla

Thanks, Lathel. The reason I ask is my husband is considered 1/16 Choctaw, which is enough for Choctaw Tribal Membership, so I gain nothing by asking on that front. But I was curios, because while his CDIB says 1/16, his great grandma and grandpa were choctaw as well, and their parents on both side, with one of them at least being Cherokee as well. To what degree I don't know. They are all on Dawes, with roll numbers on the Paternal side, and MCR Choctaw on the Maternal. Then the Paternal sides parents were Choctaw on both sides. So you can see 1/16th seems wrong, not that it would matter legally. Clear as mud? LOL! I found the Case #'s so I wondered if that was something else altogether, or what. I'd love to have the documents, especially the interviews....that'd be awesome! My side is the name Wood, who all say we have Indian blood, but I cannot find the connection. Most Wood were MCR on the Dawes, and just the names aren't enough to go by. Carla

Don't give up, keep searching. We found ours on the Dawes and now my kids and husband are Choctaw Tribal members. But what is better than that is all the new "cousins" I have found and we are now sharing info! All these years and we never knew them! I can search on my end if you need help, let me know...it is so worth finding lost family, the Indian Tribal Membership is just gravy, the real meal is in the culture, history and lost family members. Carla

unsubscribe, thanks

Paula, I do agree with what you said: "In earlier times, the blood amount was calculated (guessed) by the person conducting the census. There were no documents or other records that "proved" the amount of Indian blood and individual possessed. " Viewing several different Choctaw siblings on the Dawes Rolls, I see a variance in what was recorded for their degree of "indian blood", and to this date, it has not been disproven that they share the very same mother and father. The same goes for the recording of these siblings children degree of "indian blood". As they are recorded on the Dawes Roll varies, even though each sibling married a non-indian spouse, and therefore the children should all calculate to have the same degree. The Dawes Rolls, Census and any other records are only guides, but sometimes prove to be far from facts. Carri

In a message dated 9/5/06 9:57:43 PM, Kenebaker@comcast.net writes: > Jes, I would have to disagree that " a degree of blood is to a particular > Tribe" in 600 years we bred and interbred as civilization and > non-civilization led us. > With respect to the issue of who we are, I found this newspaper article very interesting: deseretnews.com | Roots of human tree remarkably shallow

> >

Dan- try: Baker Publishing Co, PO Box 20951, Oklahoma City, OK 73156. I feel the same way about the Memorial--- Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore Maloney, Daniel Lee wrote: >Jerri, > >Where could I get a copy of the Jack Baker? >I have a lot of relatives in Claremore and I have always considered the Will Rogers Memorial a religious shrine. > > >

In earlier times, the blood amount was calculated (guessed) by the person conducting the census. There were no documents or other records that "proved" the amount of Indian blood and individual possessed. That was'nt real scientific NOW WAS IT? mY BLUE EYES & BLONDE HAIR WOULD MEAN i'm none!! I remember my grandfather always showing me things in nature..Love for the land, animals, plants that could be used for different purposes.. Never take More than is needed.. What my great grandmother would wear & the stories she would tell him so he could retell & practice. Alot was lost but, I count my self lucky to have had some things taught to me. I don't know HOW much my blood is native.. it's nOT important for me to have an amount anymore. To me it's more what was it like back then.. the things family had to endure. It;s the connection with the past.... people we never got to meet that are a part of me. What struggles, joys they had. Don't give up on the genealogy.. someone told me once it;s like fishing.. ya never know what you'll get.. maybe a bite, nibble here & there. Full surprises... PaUla

I don't agree with the theory you have and I'm sure thats all it is re that " in earlier times, the blood amount was calulated ( guessed ) * most of us here know the definition of calculated * by the person conducting the census". Some of our people knew there blood quantum... When my great great grandmother told the commission she as full-blood Choctaw, she knew what she was talking about and that is what was recorded. I was born a Choctaw. James Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: <Sparklineyez@aol.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 7:53 PM Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] : native blood > In earlier times, the blood amount was calculated (guessed) by the person > conducting the census. There were no documents or other records that > "proved" > the amount of Indian blood and individual possessed. > > That was'nt real scientific NOW WAS IT? mY BLUE EYES & BLONDE HAIR WOULD > MEAN i'm none!! > I remember my grandfather always showing me things in nature..Love > for > the land, animals, plants that could be used for different purposes.. > Never > take More than is needed.. What my great grandmother would wear & the > stories > she would tell him so he could retell & practice. Alot was lost but, I > count > my self lucky to have had some things taught to me. I don't know HOW > much > my blood is native.. it's nOT important for me to have an amount anymore. > To > me it's more what was it like back then.. the things family had to > endure. > It;s the connection with the past.... people we never got to meet that > are a > part of me. What struggles, joys they had. > Don't give up on the genealogy.. someone told me once it;s like > fishing.. > ya never know what you'll get.. maybe a bite, nibble here & there. Full > surprises... > > PaUla > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Jerri, Where could I get a copy of the Jack Baker? I have a lot of relatives in Claremore and I have always considered the Will Rogers Memorial a religious shrine. ________________________________ From: indian-territory-roots-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Sent: Sun 9/3/2006 12:19 PM To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com; obengekite@juno.com Subject: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Cherokees in I.T. prior to TOT. Oleta- I've talked to you for ten or more years. Are you SURE that you've never heard of Cherokees being in I.T. before the 1838/39 Trail of Tears? I'm sure that you have, but you have just forgotten it. When the Trail of Tears groups came through Arkansas, all of those who wanted to remain citizens of the Cherokee Nation and their government was already established in the Cherokee Nation of Indian Territory. This is verified by the 1825 Treaty concerning the removal of the Western Cherokees from the Arkansas lands into Indian Territory, the Claims filed and paid for their Arkansas improvements, "The Dwight Mission Journal- 1822/1865", and "Cherokee Emigration Rolls- 1817/1835", transcribed and published by Jack Baker in 1977. Everyone who came west before the Trail of Tears were classified as "Old Settlers"- no matter if they came in 1817 or in 1834. Many are shown on that Emigration book by Baker with the exact dates that they arrived (Lt Harris's group: arrived May 16, 1834"; "James Walkingstick- 2 males under 10, one male under 25, one female under 10, one female under 50, one child died 25 August"; "Jeremiah Horn- arrived May 16, 1834"). These names may be cross-referenced to the Old Settler Rolls! The Pin Indians did not come into the picture until the Civil War, Oleta. Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen Claremore J W Kite Jr wrote: >The Old Settlers are the people who were in Arkansas in 1817. As far as >Sequoyah=-he is my cousin and he made many trips back and forth. I know >there were people here. There were Cherokees called Pin and one morning >when my relative went out on the porch to wash his face they came riding >out and killed him. Only thing that saved his son was because he got >under his mother's skirt. I am a Cherokee-was reared as a Cherokee have >traveled , Lowrey family and my people are rather well known. If you read >Old Frontier you will find my relatives on almost every page. I also >volunteered At OHS "Indian" Archives for five years. When the Trail of >Tears came thru Arkansas the Cherokees there could rejoin the Tribe and >come on into Indian Territory if they chose. Thereafter, anyone had to >get a Permit to come into Indian Territory. Furthermore, anyone leaving >theTribe were no longer considered to be aCherokee. I never heard ofthis >book you mention but will try to get it. Oleta > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you for your responsible comments over the past few days. I just returned from our annual Labor Day Festival at our tribal council grounds, Tushkahoma, Ok. I believe that the achival records at OHS are among the best in this country and the staff as well as volunteers are most knowledgeable. Being born a Choctaw and knowledgeable about researching the tribes is something very familiar with me. Points of view are ok...but I'll stay with proven sources. Of course everyone is ebtitled to an opinion....Personally I like yours.... James Brown ----- Original Message ----- From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 11:12 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting informationaboutpetitionsofenrollm... > Lathel, I know all about the Federal workings. I worked at the Archives > here -vcolunteered- talked to Offices in Washington and in Fort Worth,. I > have visited seveal State Libraries. As a matter of fact I get calls from > all over even though I've been retired for sometime so I don't need any > advice from anyone but thanks for your point of view. We have tons of > stuff here at OHS. Oleta Benge Kite > On Sun, 3 Sep 2006 11:44:38 -0400 "Lathel Duffield" <Lathel_Duf@msn.com> > writes: >> BIA and genealogical services >> >> The BIA is not a repository for historical records. Federal laws >> require ALL federal agencies to prepare their records (documents, >> etc.) so that when a case is closed, I.e. the documents are no >> longer needed for current work, that the original records be >> prepared for transfer to the National Archives and Record Services. >> The time frame varies depending on the nature of the records but >> definitely by the time the documents are 25 years old and the case >> is closed, they become part of the legal possession of NARA. The >> BIA does not have any claim to the records in spite of the fact that >> agency may have created them. There is a transitional period for >> more recent records that have been sent to NARA and while these more >> recent records are housed by NARA use of the records requires >> permission from the BIA. If a person is not a professional >> researcher or has never worked with a Federal agency this transition >> of documents from the creating agency to NARA is not generally >> known. ! >> NARA has to implement the privacy laws so more recent records with >> personal information can not be distributed. >> >> There are other factors at work here. Office space as people know >> is very expensive. To use such space for storage of "dead" records >> places undue strain on an agency budgets. Agencies must rent space >> in government buildings and trying to house the thousands of records >> that have been created would wipe out the agencies budget. >> Technically all the buildings are the responsibility of the >> Government Services Administration who have the responsibility of >> all Government properties. They have to maintain them, arrange >> leases, etc. The costs of any move from one building to another >> however is borne by the agency. This is very a person should rely >> on NARA and not the BIA for any relevant documentation. >> >> Lathel Duffield >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Dan M<mailto:wb@wvi.com> >> To: >> > indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootswe > b.com> >> >> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting >> informationaboutpetitionsof enrollm... >> >> >> maybe ask for donations from those who care? Also. >> Dan M >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <TopBranchW@aol.com<mailto:TopBranchW@aol.com>> >> To: >> > <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com<mailto:indian-territory-roots@rootsw > eb.com>> >> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 6:16 PM >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Requesting information >> aboutpetitionsof enrollm... >> >> >> > Hi, >> > >> > Perhaps if the BIA is having fiscal problems they might consider >> offering >> > genealogical services - for a price. So many people seem >> interested. >> And so >> > many families have the lore of Indian ancestry. >> > >> > W.L. Barker >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS > -request@rootsweb.com> >> with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com<mailto:INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS > -request@rootsweb.com> >> with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> the body of the message >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >