Hello all, I just had to pipe in here; glad to finally have something to contribute that might be helpful. I live just outside of Little Rock and I'm very familiar with the Sequoyah Research Center. Here is a link to their web page. The center is under the heading of The American Native Press Archive at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock. The material they have on-hand is awesome.They still have many documents that have not yet been catalogued and made available and they are in the process of making those ready. _http://www.anpa.ualr.edu/_ (http://www.anpa.ualr.edu/) This year's symposium is Oct. 19 - 21, 2006. The director of the ANPA is Dr. Dan Littlefield. He is amazing. I someday hope to have a smidgen of his knowledge on the subject. Best to you all, Jan

Jes, Thanks-yes I can tell you lots. My family was on that famous Trail. Thank God for the fact that one of my cousins was Commander of this train and I know they got good treatment. The Cherokees who owned slaves were able to bring them along.They were good to the slaves and even after they were freed they perfered to stay with the family.This is something you'll get a laugh. One day my Dad's next to the youngest daughter was all dressed up to go to town. She was tripping down Broadway when one of these people came out, threw her arms around Aunt Addie and said,"Honey did you know your Uncle Will was dead? Aunt Addie wanted to sink into the concrete but to me that proved my family had treated them very good. Here is another true story. I think the man was a relative but one day some of these sorry white people came into the house shot the man dead in front of his wife and kids, stole all the guns and livestock.But one thing about this JES is that the Historians stated that the Cherokees were miles ahead of those people who did all these mean things. About everytime I go to Tenneeseee I want to go to Jackson's grave and spit on him. Had it not been for the Cherokees he would have been killed at Horseshoe Bend. The Cherokee who saved him said later he regretted doing that.Ain't this pathetic-Didn't intend to break your ear. Oleta On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 09:40:28 EDT HealTheCircle@aol.com writes: > James, et al....I am not aware of anything in writing (from that > time) that > described the attitude of the Cherrokee regarding the Dawes. But I > do know > that the Creek....who were also involved, responded with > "skepticism", about > the Dawes, as well. The article, "Snakes and Scribes" sums up that > > skepticism. Also, there have been numerous writings about the > people who didn't have > native blood, who used the Dawes, as a way to get land > fraudulently. These > issues with the Dawes, as I am aware, have never been ajudicated, > or rectified. > > This article is out of the NARA (National Archives).....and it is > about the > Snakes and Scribes, and other issues at the time. Very good read. > Also, I > have been to the Museum in Cherokee, NC, and the one in Tahlequah, > OK....that > depict the type of thing Oleta is talking about the removal....and > the > atrocities that the tribes suffered because of it. If you want to > see them, the one > in Cherokee, is the Eastern Cherokee, and the one in Tahlequah is > at the > Heritage Center, of the Western Nation. > > Here's the link for the article, etc., > _http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1997/spring/dawes-commissi on-1.html_ > > (http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1997/spring/dawes-commissi on-1.html) > > > Oh, and Oleta....yes I knew right away, that your name was a known > name, > with the Cherokee. Thank you so much for all you are willing to > share. Your > knowledge is precious, and we learn so much about how it felt to be > Cherokee, > in the times when it wasn't "safe" to be. Many of us don't know > anyone who was > alive, or had folks who were alive, who were affected by the > genocide. It's > hard to understand if you weren't direclty effected. > > Once again....your personal accounts of things mean very much to > those who > e just trying to understand their heritage. > > Also...I would like t direct folks to the Sequoyah Research Center, > at the > University of Arkansas, in Little Rock, They have an etensive > digitized > library of newspaper accounts of the Removal along the water route > through AR, and > also a map of the land routes as well. They also hold a symposium > annually > for all tribes, on various subjects. Seems to me it's in September > or > October?? But, if you visit their site, you can find this and all > sorts of other > information. _http://anpa.ualr.edu/_ (http://anpa.ualr.edu/) > > Wado, > jes > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Kathy, By a card I presume you might mean a Card giving Blood Quantum however jut a card would be of no use to anyone. Before you wrote to anyone-what kind of a card and who issued the card. It could just be a Membership Card of some kind. Where did he live? Is there a death certificate? Where is he buried? Do you think the card might have something to do with an Indian Tribe? There are 37 (I think)? Indian Tribes in Oklahoma alone.If you can answer some of these questions I might be able to help you. Oleta On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 6:29:27 -0500 <repete58@alltel.net> writes: > Oleta, > I see from your responses that you are very knowledgeable. I wanted > to ask you a question if might. My gradfather was William Thomas > HENSLEY, his father was Charley HENSLEY, his mother was a JONES,she > was Della Jane JONES. Her father was Thomas Jefferson SILCOX/JONES. > My gradmother was Ruby Dell BLANKENSHIP, her father was James A. > BLANKENSHIP, his father was Isham BLANKENSHIP. I am told that my > grandfather had a card but he and his wife divorced years before his > death and we are not able to find a copy of it. My question is > where could I write to get a copy, or inquire about a copy? > > I would be very grateful for any help you might give. > Thank you, > Kathy > > > > From: J W Kite Jr <obengekite@juno.com> > > Date: 2006/09/29 Fri PM 07:50:16 CDT > > To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > > > Dear James, No you did not offend me at all. There were many > Cherokees > > who did not enroll because they thought it was just another thing > our > > dear Gov't. set up to finish stealing them blind. You know James > ,my > > Grandfather owned land on the Mountain, his marriage or papers > stated he > > was a white man married to a Cherokee-anyway this day there was a > knock > > on the door and it was the jerks teling him he had to leave. His > answer > > was I'm not going anywhere-I own this property and have papers to > prove > > it. Then and there he was marched off at the [point of a > bayonet.I've got > > copies of all this. The Lowreys are my family too. My Mother's > mom was > > Ballard-another good old Cherokee name.My Cousin was a Commander > on one > > of the Wagons coming West. My Paternal Grandfather back one or two > was > > Colonel John Lowrey and Major George Lowrey, his brother was my > Uncle. > > Also, now there are many Cherokees who have not gotten a CDIB > because > > like me they are able to finance themselves I guess is how you > would put > > it. The Government has never spent a dime on me. My husband and I > have > > made it ouselves. Ive got those big brown eyes, olive skin , high > > cheekbones and dark brown hair. Mom and Dad did too however you > should > > have seen my brother-he was fair skin, blue eyes and took after my > Dad's > > father. Guess I've bent your ear enough for tonight. Oleta > > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:49:49 -0500 "James Brown" > <patton14@crosstel.net> > > writes: > > > Thank you Ms. Kite, I wasn't questioning your credentials , > certainly > > > not as > > > a very knowledgeable historian of Native American history or > your > > > Cherokee > > > ancestry. I believe that speaks for itself re your posts to > this > > > list.I was > > > actually wondering if there are persons that choose not to apply > for > > > a CDIB > > > for their own reasons. When you stated you hand never obtained a > > > > CDIB, I > > > wondered if it was because your ancestors chose not to ( for > their > > > own > > > reasons ) to sign the Dawes Rolls.My apologies if I offended > you. > > > > > > > > > > James > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > > > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:30 PM > > > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > > > > > > > > >I chose not to ask for one because one has never been needed. > In > > > my > > > > lineage I've got Chiefs and other well known relatives. My > mother > > > and my > > > > father are Cherokees but not full bloods. My Cherokee kin are > well > > > known. > > > > Sequoyah is related to me. I can certainly meet any > requirement > > > and my > > > > parents and grandparents are on the Final Rolls.I'm retired > from > > > the U. > > > > S. Government -DHEW-Indian Health Service and have worked with > > > > the > > > > Tribes.I volunteered at the State Indian Archives for five > years. > > > You can > > > > contact Mr. William Welge who is the Director if you'd like to > > > > check up > > > > on me. I get calls from Washington, D. C. sometimes. I called > a > > > County > > > > Office one time and gave my name. The girl told me immediately > > > > that as > > > > much as my family had to do with the beginning of that County > I > > > should > > > > join. I thought I could be of some assistance to this group > but I > > > guess > > > > not. I'm sorta well known or rather my name has been slung > around. > > > Don > > > > Chestnut is my cousin. I married a white man from Alabama so > I've > > > had > > > > both worlds. If you have a Cherokee Roll book I'll send you > all > > > the > > > > numbers you need to find my people. I'm also English and well > > > > known > > > > relatives along with some Kings and Queens which certainly not > > > > important > > > > and also Scots./I realized I've given you more than you asked > for > > > but if > > > > you think of anything else you'd like to know just write me. > I've > > > been > > > > told by people had it not been for me they never would have > gotten > > > the > > > > things straightened out. Oleta Elizabeth Benge Kite > > > > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:28:48 -0500 "James Brown" > > > <patton14@crosstel.net> > > > > writes: > > > >> This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of > a > > > >> response, but > > > >> I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your > > > choice > > > >> not to > > > >> apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements > established > > > by > > > >> BIA > > > >> and/or tribal membership department? > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> James > > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > > > >> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > > > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM > > > >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives > closure > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy > in > > > the > > > >> East > > > >> > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many > books > > > >> and even > > > >> > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to > be > > > >> Guardian for > > > >> > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can > > > guess > > > >> what > > > >> > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage > > > > and > > > >> she had a > > > >> > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this > > > happened > > > >> in the > > > >> > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies > > > because > > > >> the > > > >> > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than > > > > one > > > >> fourth. I > > > >> > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State > Indian > > > >> Archives > > > >> > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes > > > enrollment > > > >> was > > > >> > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this > was > > > >> between > > > >> > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified > from > > > >> either > > > >> > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never > > > gotten a > > > >> CDIB > > > >> > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from > Nancy > > > Ward. > > > >> I'm > > > >> > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta > > > >> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: > > > >> >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of > the > > > >> Cherokee > > > >> >> Nation > > > >> >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all > have > > > >> varying > > > >> >> degrees of > > > >> >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have > different > > > >> blood > > > >> >> degrees. > > > >> >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother > > > > that > > > >> >> most were > > > >> >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really > were > > > >> because > > > >> >> if you were > > > >> >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white > overseer > > > of > > > >> >> your > > > >> >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since > I > > > am > > > >> a > > > >> >> descendant of Nancy > > > >> >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on > my > > > >> >> grandmother's side > > > >> >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see > differences > > > in > > > >> blood > > > >> >> degree > > > >> >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my > ancestors > > > >> listed. > > > >> >> I think > > > >> >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their > > > >> Cherokee > > > >> >> pride. We > > > >> >> have to remember that times were different back then most > > > > were > > > >> just > > > >> >> trying to > > > >> >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up > poor > > > my > > > >> >> great > > > >> >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness > > > > and > > > >> >> accidents and on both > > > >> >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I > > > > think > > > >> it > > > >> >> has taken > > > >> >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's > and > > > I > > > >> are > > > >> >> the first > > > >> >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. > > > >> >> > > > >> >> Robin Smith > > > >> >> > > > >> >> ------------------------------- > > > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >> >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the > body > > > of > > > >> the > > > >> >> message > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > > > >> > ------------------------------- > > > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > >> 'unsubscribe' > > > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> ------------------------------- > > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > > > the > > > >> message > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the > > > message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Rebecca, The only Connection I would have would be if they were lis. Walker is ted in a lot of material I have here. Carter is a pretty well known name in the Cherokees. Oleta On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 05:20:25 -0500 "Becky" <americafaye@sbcglobal.net> writes: > Oleta, > Do you have a connection to Thigh Carter Walker and George > Washington Walker that moved to the Vanita/Welch area in the late > 1800's? My Great Grandmother Mary Jane Harlow Davis married George > W. Walker. They are buried in the Walker Cemetery just outside of > Welch near where their home was (& is still standing). > > Rebecca > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Since you've got dates have you ever ordered Death Certificates? OK On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 23:02:17 +0000 russtann@comcast.net writes: > Hi Everyone: > I have a Mary Elizabeth Collins married to a Joseph Hamilton Price. > I do not know their dob. I know that a son of their's Theodore > Sidney "Sid" Price b 1910 OK died 1990 Stilwell, OK married Osie > Marie Collins b 1915 died 1976 Stilwell, OK. I am trying to find > more information on Mary Elizabeth Collins. I believe her parents > were Father: James Marion Collins b: 1846 IN and Mother: Mary L. > Buckner b: 1847 IN. How would I go about verifying this > information? > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks. > Lee Ann Collins > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Does anyone have any knowledge re the surname: Old Chief and what tribe it could possibly or most likely be connected? James

There are several Hensley's listed...see if you can make a connection. Carla http://www.accessgenealogy.com/native/finalrolls/index.htm

James, et al....I am not aware of anything in writing (from that time) that described the attitude of the Cherrokee regarding the Dawes. But I do know that the Creek....who were also involved, responded with "skepticism", about the Dawes, as well. The article, "Snakes and Scribes" sums up that skepticism. Also, there have been numerous writings about the people who didn't have native blood, who used the Dawes, as a way to get land fraudulently. These issues with the Dawes, as I am aware, have never been ajudicated, or rectified. This article is out of the NARA (National Archives).....and it is about the Snakes and Scribes, and other issues at the time. Very good read. Also, I have been to the Museum in Cherokee, NC, and the one in Tahlequah, OK....that depict the type of thing Oleta is talking about the removal....and the atrocities that the tribes suffered because of it. If you want to see them, the one in Cherokee, is the Eastern Cherokee, and the one in Tahlequah is at the Heritage Center, of the Western Nation. Here's the link for the article, etc., _http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1997/spring/dawes-commission-1.html_ (http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1997/spring/dawes-commission-1.html) Oh, and Oleta....yes I knew right away, that your name was a known name, with the Cherokee. Thank you so much for all you are willing to share. Your knowledge is precious, and we learn so much about how it felt to be Cherokee, in the times when it wasn't "safe" to be. Many of us don't know anyone who was alive, or had folks who were alive, who were affected by the genocide. It's hard to understand if you weren't direclty effected. Once again....your personal accounts of things mean very much to those who are just trying to understand their heritage. Also...I would like t direct folks to the Sequoyah Research Center, at the University of Arkansas, in Little Rock, They have an etensive digitized library of newspaper accounts of the Removal along the water route through AR, and also a map of the land routes as well. They also hold a symposium annually for all tribes, on various subjects. Seems to me it's in September or October?? But, if you visit their site, you can find this and all sorts of other information. _http://anpa.ualr.edu/_ (http://anpa.ualr.edu/) Wado, jes

The Blankenships connect to the Brackett's who connect to the Rapers who connect to the McDaniels who connect to the descendents of Nancy Ward Joyce Gaston Reece ----- Original Message ----- From: <repete58@alltel.net> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:29 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] : Natural Archives closure > Oleta, > I see from your responses that you are very knowledgeable. I wanted to > ask you a question if might. My gradfather was William Thomas HENSLEY, his > father was Charley HENSLEY, his mother was a JONES,she was Della Jane > JONES. Her father was Thomas Jefferson SILCOX/JONES. My gradmother was > Ruby Dell BLANKENSHIP, her father was James A. BLANKENSHIP, his father was > Isham BLANKENSHIP. I am told that my grandfather had a card but he and his > wife divorced years before his death and we are not able to find a copy of > it. My question is where could I write to get a copy, or inquire about a > copy? > > I would be very grateful for any help you might give. > Thank you, > Kathy >> >> From: J W Kite Jr <obengekite@juno.com> >> Date: 2006/09/29 Fri PM 07:50:16 CDT >> To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure >> >> Dear James, No you did not offend me at all. There were many Cherokees >> who did not enroll because they thought it was just another thing our >> dear Gov't. set up to finish stealing them blind. You know James ,my >> Grandfather owned land on the Mountain, his marriage or papers stated he >> was a white man married to a Cherokee-anyway this day there was a knock >> on the door and it was the jerks teling him he had to leave. His answer >> was I'm not going anywhere-I own this property and have papers to prove >> it. Then and there he was marched off at the [point of a bayonet.I've got >> copies of all this. The Lowreys are my family too. My Mother's mom was >> Ballard-another good old Cherokee name.My Cousin was a Commander on one >> of the Wagons coming West. My Paternal Grandfather back one or two was >> Colonel John Lowrey and Major George Lowrey, his brother was my Uncle. >> Also, now there are many Cherokees who have not gotten a CDIB because >> like me they are able to finance themselves I guess is how you would put >> it. The Government has never spent a dime on me. My husband and I have >> made it ouselves. Ive got those big brown eyes, olive skin , high >> cheekbones and dark brown hair. Mom and Dad did too however you should >> have seen my brother-he was fair skin, blue eyes and took after my Dad's >> father. Guess I've bent your ear enough for tonight. Oleta >> On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:49:49 -0500 "James Brown" <patton14@crosstel.net> >> writes: >> > Thank you Ms. Kite, I wasn't questioning your credentials , certainly >> > not as >> > a very knowledgeable historian of Native American history or your >> > Cherokee >> > ancestry. I believe that speaks for itself re your posts to this >> > list.I was >> > actually wondering if there are persons that choose not to apply for >> > a CDIB >> > for their own reasons. When you stated you hand never obtained a >> > CDIB, I >> > wondered if it was because your ancestors chose not to ( for their >> > own >> > reasons ) to sign the Dawes Rolls.My apologies if I offended you. >> > >> > >> > James >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> >> > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> >> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:30 PM >> > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure >> > >> > >> > >I chose not to ask for one because one has never been needed. In >> > my >> > > lineage I've got Chiefs and other well known relatives. My mother >> > and my >> > > father are Cherokees but not full bloods. My Cherokee kin are well >> > known. >> > > Sequoyah is related to me. I can certainly meet any requirement >> > and my >> > > parents and grandparents are on the Final Rolls.I'm retired from >> > the U. >> > > S. Government -DHEW-Indian Health Service and have worked with >> > the >> > > Tribes.I volunteered at the State Indian Archives for five years. >> > You can >> > > contact Mr. William Welge who is the Director if you'd like to >> > check up >> > > on me. I get calls from Washington, D. C. sometimes. I called a >> > County >> > > Office one time and gave my name. The girl told me immediately >> > that as >> > > much as my family had to do with the beginning of that County I >> > should >> > > join. I thought I could be of some assistance to this group but I >> > guess >> > > not. I'm sorta well known or rather my name has been slung around. >> > Don >> > > Chestnut is my cousin. I married a white man from Alabama so I've >> > had >> > > both worlds. If you have a Cherokee Roll book I'll send you all >> > the >> > > numbers you need to find my people. I'm also English and well >> > known >> > > relatives along with some Kings and Queens which certainly not >> > important >> > > and also Scots./I realized I've given you more than you asked for >> > but if >> > > you think of anything else you'd like to know just write me. I've >> > been >> > > told by people had it not been for me they never would have gotten >> > the >> > > things straightened out. Oleta Elizabeth Benge Kite >> > > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:28:48 -0500 "James Brown" >> > <patton14@crosstel.net> >> > > writes: >> > >> This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of a >> > >> response, but >> > >> I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your >> > choice >> > >> not to >> > >> apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements established >> > by >> > >> BIA >> > >> and/or tribal membership department? >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> James >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> > >> From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> >> > >> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> >> > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM >> > >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy in >> > the >> > >> East >> > >> > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many books >> > >> and even >> > >> > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to be >> > >> Guardian for >> > >> > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can >> > guess >> > >> what >> > >> > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage >> > and >> > >> she had a >> > >> > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this >> > happened >> > >> in the >> > >> > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies >> > because >> > >> the >> > >> > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than >> > one >> > >> fourth. I >> > >> > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State Indian >> > >> Archives >> > >> > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes >> > enrollment >> > >> was >> > >> > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this was >> > >> between >> > >> > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified from >> > >> either >> > >> > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never >> > gotten a >> > >> CDIB >> > >> > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from Nancy >> > Ward. >> > >> I'm >> > >> > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta >> > >> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: >> > >> >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of the >> > >> Cherokee >> > >> >> Nation >> > >> >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all have >> > >> varying >> > >> >> degrees of >> > >> >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have different >> > >> blood >> > >> >> degrees. >> > >> >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother >> > that >> > >> >> most were >> > >> >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really were >> > >> because >> > >> >> if you were >> > >> >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white overseer >> > of >> > >> >> your >> > >> >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since I >> > am >> > >> a >> > >> >> descendant of Nancy >> > >> >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on my >> > >> >> grandmother's side >> > >> >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see differences >> > in >> > >> blood >> > >> >> degree >> > >> >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my ancestors >> > >> listed. >> > >> >> I think >> > >> >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their >> > >> Cherokee >> > >> >> pride. We >> > >> >> have to remember that times were different back then most >> > were >> > >> just >> > >> >> trying to >> > >> >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up poor >> > my >> > >> >> great >> > >> >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness >> > and >> > >> >> accidents and on both >> > >> >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I >> > think >> > >> it >> > >> >> has taken >> > >> >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's and >> > I >> > >> are >> > >> >> the first >> > >> >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. >> > >> >> >> > >> >> Robin Smith >> > >> >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >> >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body >> > of >> > >> the >> > >> >> message >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > >> 'unsubscribe' >> > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> ------------------------------- >> > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >> > the >> > >> message >> > >> >> > >> >> > > >> > > ------------------------------- >> > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' >> > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >> > > >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> > message >> > >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.407 / Virus Database: 268.12.9/458 - Release Date: 9/27/2006 > >

Oleta, I see from your responses that you are very knowledgeable. I wanted to ask you a question if might. My gradfather was William Thomas HENSLEY, his father was Charley HENSLEY, his mother was a JONES,she was Della Jane JONES. Her father was Thomas Jefferson SILCOX/JONES. My gradmother was Ruby Dell BLANKENSHIP, her father was James A. BLANKENSHIP, his father was Isham BLANKENSHIP. I am told that my grandfather had a card but he and his wife divorced years before his death and we are not able to find a copy of it. My question is where could I write to get a copy, or inquire about a copy? I would be very grateful for any help you might give. Thank you, Kathy > > From: J W Kite Jr <obengekite@juno.com> > Date: 2006/09/29 Fri PM 07:50:16 CDT > To: indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > Dear James, No you did not offend me at all. There were many Cherokees > who did not enroll because they thought it was just another thing our > dear Gov't. set up to finish stealing them blind. You know James ,my > Grandfather owned land on the Mountain, his marriage or papers stated he > was a white man married to a Cherokee-anyway this day there was a knock > on the door and it was the jerks teling him he had to leave. His answer > was I'm not going anywhere-I own this property and have papers to prove > it. Then and there he was marched off at the [point of a bayonet.I've got > copies of all this. The Lowreys are my family too. My Mother's mom was > Ballard-another good old Cherokee name.My Cousin was a Commander on one > of the Wagons coming West. My Paternal Grandfather back one or two was > Colonel John Lowrey and Major George Lowrey, his brother was my Uncle. > Also, now there are many Cherokees who have not gotten a CDIB because > like me they are able to finance themselves I guess is how you would put > it. The Government has never spent a dime on me. My husband and I have > made it ouselves. Ive got those big brown eyes, olive skin , high > cheekbones and dark brown hair. Mom and Dad did too however you should > have seen my brother-he was fair skin, blue eyes and took after my Dad's > father. Guess I've bent your ear enough for tonight. Oleta > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:49:49 -0500 "James Brown" <patton14@crosstel.net> > writes: > > Thank you Ms. Kite, I wasn't questioning your credentials , certainly > > not as > > a very knowledgeable historian of Native American history or your > > Cherokee > > ancestry. I believe that speaks for itself re your posts to this > > list.I was > > actually wondering if there are persons that choose not to apply for > > a CDIB > > for their own reasons. When you stated you hand never obtained a > > CDIB, I > > wondered if it was because your ancestors chose not to ( for their > > own > > reasons ) to sign the Dawes Rolls.My apologies if I offended you. > > > > > > James > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:30 PM > > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > > > > > >I chose not to ask for one because one has never been needed. In > > my > > > lineage I've got Chiefs and other well known relatives. My mother > > and my > > > father are Cherokees but not full bloods. My Cherokee kin are well > > known. > > > Sequoyah is related to me. I can certainly meet any requirement > > and my > > > parents and grandparents are on the Final Rolls.I'm retired from > > the U. > > > S. Government -DHEW-Indian Health Service and have worked with > > the > > > Tribes.I volunteered at the State Indian Archives for five years. > > You can > > > contact Mr. William Welge who is the Director if you'd like to > > check up > > > on me. I get calls from Washington, D. C. sometimes. I called a > > County > > > Office one time and gave my name. The girl told me immediately > > that as > > > much as my family had to do with the beginning of that County I > > should > > > join. I thought I could be of some assistance to this group but I > > guess > > > not. I'm sorta well known or rather my name has been slung around. > > Don > > > Chestnut is my cousin. I married a white man from Alabama so I've > > had > > > both worlds. If you have a Cherokee Roll book I'll send you all > > the > > > numbers you need to find my people. I'm also English and well > > known > > > relatives along with some Kings and Queens which certainly not > > important > > > and also Scots./I realized I've given you more than you asked for > > but if > > > you think of anything else you'd like to know just write me. I've > > been > > > told by people had it not been for me they never would have gotten > > the > > > things straightened out. Oleta Elizabeth Benge Kite > > > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:28:48 -0500 "James Brown" > > <patton14@crosstel.net> > > > writes: > > >> This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of a > > >> response, but > > >> I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your > > choice > > >> not to > > >> apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements established > > by > > >> BIA > > >> and/or tribal membership department? > > >> > > >> > > >> James > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > > >> From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > > >> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > >> > > >> > > >> > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy in > > the > > >> East > > >> > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many books > > >> and even > > >> > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to be > > >> Guardian for > > >> > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can > > guess > > >> what > > >> > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage > > and > > >> she had a > > >> > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this > > happened > > >> in the > > >> > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies > > because > > >> the > > >> > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than > > one > > >> fourth. I > > >> > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State Indian > > >> Archives > > >> > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes > > enrollment > > >> was > > >> > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this was > > >> between > > >> > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified from > > >> either > > >> > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never > > gotten a > > >> CDIB > > >> > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from Nancy > > Ward. > > >> I'm > > >> > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta > > >> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: > > >> >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of the > > >> Cherokee > > >> >> Nation > > >> >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all have > > >> varying > > >> >> degrees of > > >> >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have different > > >> blood > > >> >> degrees. > > >> >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother > > that > > >> >> most were > > >> >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really were > > >> because > > >> >> if you were > > >> >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white overseer > > of > > >> >> your > > >> >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since I > > am > > >> a > > >> >> descendant of Nancy > > >> >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on my > > >> >> grandmother's side > > >> >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see differences > > in > > >> blood > > >> >> degree > > >> >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my ancestors > > >> listed. > > >> >> I think > > >> >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their > > >> Cherokee > > >> >> pride. We > > >> >> have to remember that times were different back then most > > were > > >> just > > >> >> trying to > > >> >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up poor > > my > > >> >> great > > >> >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness > > and > > >> >> accidents and on both > > >> >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I > > think > > >> it > > >> >> has taken > > >> >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's and > > I > > >> are > > >> >> the first > > >> >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. > > >> >> > > >> >> Robin Smith > > >> >> > > >> >> ------------------------------- > > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > > of > > >> the > > >> >> message > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > ------------------------------- > > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > >> 'unsubscribe' > > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > > the > > >> message > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' > > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > > message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Oleta, Do you have a connection to Thigh Carter Walker and George Washington Walker that moved to the Vanita/Welch area in the late 1800's? My Great Grandmother Mary Jane Harlow Davis married George W. Walker. They are buried in the Walker Cemetery just outside of Welch near where their home was (& is still standing). Rebecca

Hi Everyone: I have a Mary Elizabeth Collins married to a Joseph Hamilton Price. I do not know their dob. I know that a son of their's Theodore Sidney "Sid" Price b 1910 OK died 1990 Stilwell, OK married Osie Marie Collins b 1915 died 1976 Stilwell, OK. I am trying to find more information on Mary Elizabeth Collins. I believe her parents were Father: James Marion Collins b: 1846 IN and Mother: Mary L. Buckner b: 1847 IN. How would I go about verifying this information? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Lee Ann Collins

I think the CDIB question was just curiosity, not a doubting of your Indian ancestry. I was curious as well, thinking your children might benefit and their children, for schooling and such ...which is why we pursued it for our sons. I think the Indian heritage is awesome, regardless, but I have no Indian Blood that I can prove...a few relatives who swear we have it, but I can't find a connection. Don't take offense, your help is appreciated. Carla

yes, I 'd like the new address, thanks Oleta! Carla re: OHS

Dear James, No you did not offend me at all. There were many Cherokees who did not enroll because they thought it was just another thing our dear Gov't. set up to finish stealing them blind. You know James ,my Grandfather owned land on the Mountain, his marriage or papers stated he was a white man married to a Cherokee-anyway this day there was a knock on the door and it was the jerks teling him he had to leave. His answer was I'm not going anywhere-I own this property and have papers to prove it. Then and there he was marched off at the [point of a bayonet.I've got copies of all this. The Lowreys are my family too. My Mother's mom was Ballard-another good old Cherokee name.My Cousin was a Commander on one of the Wagons coming West. My Paternal Grandfather back one or two was Colonel John Lowrey and Major George Lowrey, his brother was my Uncle. Also, now there are many Cherokees who have not gotten a CDIB because like me they are able to finance themselves I guess is how you would put it. The Government has never spent a dime on me. My husband and I have made it ouselves. Ive got those big brown eyes, olive skin , high cheekbones and dark brown hair. Mom and Dad did too however you should have seen my brother-he was fair skin, blue eyes and took after my Dad's father. Guess I've bent your ear enough for tonight. Oleta On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 15:49:49 -0500 "James Brown" <patton14@crosstel.net> writes: > Thank you Ms. Kite, I wasn't questioning your credentials , certainly > not as > a very knowledgeable historian of Native American history or your > Cherokee > ancestry. I believe that speaks for itself re your posts to this > list.I was > actually wondering if there are persons that choose not to apply for > a CDIB > for their own reasons. When you stated you hand never obtained a > CDIB, I > wondered if it was because your ancestors chose not to ( for their > own > reasons ) to sign the Dawes Rolls.My apologies if I offended you. > > > James > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:30 PM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > > >I chose not to ask for one because one has never been needed. In > my > > lineage I've got Chiefs and other well known relatives. My mother > and my > > father are Cherokees but not full bloods. My Cherokee kin are well > known. > > Sequoyah is related to me. I can certainly meet any requirement > and my > > parents and grandparents are on the Final Rolls.I'm retired from > the U. > > S. Government -DHEW-Indian Health Service and have worked with > the > > Tribes.I volunteered at the State Indian Archives for five years. > You can > > contact Mr. William Welge who is the Director if you'd like to > check up > > on me. I get calls from Washington, D. C. sometimes. I called a > County > > Office one time and gave my name. The girl told me immediately > that as > > much as my family had to do with the beginning of that County I > should > > join. I thought I could be of some assistance to this group but I > guess > > not. I'm sorta well known or rather my name has been slung around. > Don > > Chestnut is my cousin. I married a white man from Alabama so I've > had > > both worlds. If you have a Cherokee Roll book I'll send you all > the > > numbers you need to find my people. I'm also English and well > known > > relatives along with some Kings and Queens which certainly not > important > > and also Scots./I realized I've given you more than you asked for > but if > > you think of anything else you'd like to know just write me. I've > been > > told by people had it not been for me they never would have gotten > the > > things straightened out. Oleta Elizabeth Benge Kite > > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:28:48 -0500 "James Brown" > <patton14@crosstel.net> > > writes: > >> This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of a > >> response, but > >> I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your > choice > >> not to > >> apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements established > by > >> BIA > >> and/or tribal membership department? > >> > >> > >> James > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > >> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM > >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > >> > >> > >> > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy in > the > >> East > >> > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many books > >> and even > >> > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to be > >> Guardian for > >> > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can > guess > >> what > >> > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage > and > >> she had a > >> > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this > happened > >> in the > >> > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies > because > >> the > >> > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than > one > >> fourth. I > >> > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State Indian > >> Archives > >> > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes > enrollment > >> was > >> > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this was > >> between > >> > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified from > >> either > >> > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never > gotten a > >> CDIB > >> > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from Nancy > Ward. > >> I'm > >> > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta > >> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: > >> >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of the > >> Cherokee > >> >> Nation > >> >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all have > >> varying > >> >> degrees of > >> >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have different > >> blood > >> >> degrees. > >> >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother > that > >> >> most were > >> >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really were > >> because > >> >> if you were > >> >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white overseer > of > >> >> your > >> >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since I > am > >> a > >> >> descendant of Nancy > >> >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on my > >> >> grandmother's side > >> >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see differences > in > >> blood > >> >> degree > >> >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my ancestors > >> listed. > >> >> I think > >> >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their > >> Cherokee > >> >> pride. We > >> >> have to remember that times were different back then most > were > >> just > >> >> trying to > >> >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up poor > my > >> >> great > >> >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness > and > >> >> accidents and on both > >> >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I > think > >> it > >> >> has taken > >> >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's and > I > >> are > >> >> the first > >> >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. > >> >> > >> >> Robin Smith > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------- > >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body > of > >> the > >> >> message > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' > >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the > >> message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Thank you Ms. Kite, I wasn't questioning your credentials , certainly not as a very knowledgeable historian of Native American history or your Cherokee ancestry. I believe that speaks for itself re your posts to this list.I was actually wondering if there are persons that choose not to apply for a CDIB for their own reasons. When you stated you hand never obtained a CDIB, I wondered if it was because your ancestors chose not to ( for their own reasons ) to sign the Dawes Rolls.My apologies if I offended you. James ----- Original Message ----- From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure >I chose not to ask for one because one has never been needed. In my > lineage I've got Chiefs and other well known relatives. My mother and my > father are Cherokees but not full bloods. My Cherokee kin are well known. > Sequoyah is related to me. I can certainly meet any requirement and my > parents and grandparents are on the Final Rolls.I'm retired from the U. > S. Government -DHEW-Indian Health Service and have worked with the > Tribes.I volunteered at the State Indian Archives for five years. You can > contact Mr. William Welge who is the Director if you'd like to check up > on me. I get calls from Washington, D. C. sometimes. I called a County > Office one time and gave my name. The girl told me immediately that as > much as my family had to do with the beginning of that County I should > join. I thought I could be of some assistance to this group but I guess > not. I'm sorta well known or rather my name has been slung around. Don > Chestnut is my cousin. I married a white man from Alabama so I've had > both worlds. If you have a Cherokee Roll book I'll send you all the > numbers you need to find my people. I'm also English and well known > relatives along with some Kings and Queens which certainly not important > and also Scots./I realized I've given you more than you asked for but if > you think of anything else you'd like to know just write me. I've been > told by people had it not been for me they never would have gotten the > things straightened out. Oleta Elizabeth Benge Kite > On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:28:48 -0500 "James Brown" <patton14@crosstel.net> > writes: >> This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of a >> response, but >> I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your choice >> not to >> apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements established by >> BIA >> and/or tribal membership department? >> >> >> James >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> >> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM >> Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure >> >> >> > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy in the >> East >> > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many books >> and even >> > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to be >> Guardian for >> > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can guess >> what >> > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage and >> she had a >> > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this happened >> in the >> > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies because >> the >> > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than one >> fourth. I >> > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State Indian >> Archives >> > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes enrollment >> was >> > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this was >> between >> > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified from >> either >> > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never gotten a >> CDIB >> > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from Nancy Ward. >> I'm >> > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta >> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: >> >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of the >> Cherokee >> >> Nation >> >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all have >> varying >> >> degrees of >> >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have different >> blood >> >> degrees. >> >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother that >> >> most were >> >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really were >> because >> >> if you were >> >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white overseer of >> >> your >> >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since I am >> a >> >> descendant of Nancy >> >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on my >> >> grandmother's side >> >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see differences in >> blood >> >> degree >> >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my ancestors >> listed. >> >> I think >> >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their >> Cherokee >> >> pride. We >> >> have to remember that times were different back then most were >> just >> >> trying to >> >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up poor my >> >> great >> >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness and >> >> accidents and on both >> >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I think >> it >> >> has taken >> >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's and I >> are >> >> the first >> >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. >> >> >> >> Robin Smith >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of >> the >> >> message >> >> >> >> >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' >> > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Carla, I might not have answered you right on this memo but Oklahoma Historicakl Society have copies on most all of this stuff. They have the enrollment papers and the papers which pertained to those where the questions were asked and their answers and I think if there were any other papers available they would tell you. They are in a new Building so if you need the address I can send it to you. Oleta On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 19:52:37 -0500 "Carla B" <soarsister@cableone.net> writes: > Those on the Choctaw roll were James, Zarabelle and their kids. Yes, > they > did extra work to prove not on other tribes, as in the case with > Zarabelle, > they only approved her after confirming that she was not on Cherokee > Tribe > enrollment, like her mother Flora Alexander. Zarabelle was 1/4 > Choctaw, from > her dad's side I assume, Thomas Caprock Crowder (Son of Eli White > Crowder). > James was listed as 3/4 Choctaw and is the father of my husband's > great > grandpa. His dad was Gibson Going, who was married to Sokey Going. > Bother > were deceased before the Dawes Roll Applications. I sent off to FT > Worth for > the Application Jackets but was disappointed, the only info was the > Census > Card and just the contention items, like proof of birth and death of > an > infant, and Flora Alexander's Cherokee Nationality. No interviews, > no > application forms, as I had been led to believe. Do you suppose more > info > can be attained by going through Oklahoma H Society, instead? I > appreciate > all of y'alls help and info. We already have Choctaw membership for > my boys > and husband, so this isn't about money, or claims. It never was, > just for > the family tree and history, which I find fascinating, and sad. > Carla > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

Carla, I just reread your note and the Government made the agreement that Indians would never have to pay taxes so that is why upon his death whoever got the land would have to start paying taxes. I'm a Cherokeee and almost one half but the Government has never done a thing for me. Oleta On Thu, 28 Sep 2006 17:00:18 -0500 "Carla B" <soarsister@cableone.net> writes: > Just curious...why is less blood allowing her not to be restricted > and what > does restricted entail? > I ask because the Choctaw nation says my husbands grandpa died > intestate > (without a will) and that though his land was restricted, because he > was 1/2 > and his heirs were 1/4, on his death the tax status and restrictions > were > removed. Even still shouldn't his heirs (and they were on the record > because > they got disbursements x2) known or been given the option to keep > taxes and > property in the family? Is this the same kind of restriction you are > > mentioning or another all together? > Carla > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

I chose not to ask for one because one has never been needed. In my lineage I've got Chiefs and other well known relatives. My mother and my father are Cherokees but not full bloods. My Cherokee kin are well known. Sequoyah is related to me. I can certainly meet any requirement and my parents and grandparents are on the Final Rolls.I'm retired from the U. S. Government -DHEW-Indian Health Service and have worked with the Tribes.I volunteered at the State Indian Archives for five years. You can contact Mr. William Welge who is the Director if you'd like to check up on me. I get calls from Washington, D. C. sometimes. I called a County Office one time and gave my name. The girl told me immediately that as much as my family had to do with the beginning of that County I should join. I thought I could be of some assistance to this group but I guess not. I'm sorta well known or rather my name has been slung around. Don Chestnut is my cousin. I married a white man from Alabama so I've had both worlds. If you have a Cherokee Roll book I'll send you all the numbers you need to find my people. I'm also English and well known relatives along with some Kings and Queens which certainly not important and also Scots./I realized I've given you more than you asked for but if you think of anything else you'd like to know just write me. I've been told by people had it not been for me they never would have gotten the things straightened out. Oleta Elizabeth Benge Kite On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:28:48 -0500 "James Brown" <patton14@crosstel.net> writes: > This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of a > response, but > I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your choice > not to > apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements established by > BIA > and/or tribal membership department? > > > James > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> > To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > > > > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy in the > East > > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many books > and even > > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to be > Guardian for > > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can guess > what > > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage and > she had a > > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this happened > in the > > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies because > the > > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than one > fourth. I > > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State Indian > Archives > > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes enrollment > was > > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this was > between > > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified from > either > > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never gotten a > CDIB > > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from Nancy Ward. > I'm > > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: > >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of the > Cherokee > >> Nation > >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all have > varying > >> degrees of > >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have different > blood > >> degrees. > >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother that > >> most were > >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really were > because > >> if you were > >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white overseer of > >> your > >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since I am > a > >> descendant of Nancy > >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on my > >> grandmother's side > >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see differences in > blood > >> degree > >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my ancestors > listed. > >> I think > >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their > Cherokee > >> pride. We > >> have to remember that times were different back then most were > just > >> trying to > >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up poor my > >> great > >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness and > >> accidents and on both > >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I think > it > >> has taken > >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's and I > are > >> the first > >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. > >> > >> Robin Smith > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of > the > >> message > >> > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' > > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the > message > >

This question is none of my business and perhaps unworthy of a response, but I'm curious. Did you not obtain a CDIB as a matter of your choice not to apply or because you couldn't meet the requirements established by BIA and/or tribal membership department? James ----- Original Message ----- From: "J W Kite Jr" <obengekite@juno.com> To: <indian-territory-roots@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 9:21 AM Subject: Re: [INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS] Natural Archives closure > Dear Robin, Our family went through this. They were wealthy in the East > and my family is pretty well known-written about in many books and even > though my Grandfather was one half he was not allowed to be Guardian for > his children-had to have whites appointed and yes you can guess what > happened. My sister-in-laws cousin married a wealthy Osage and she had a > son . She had to get permission to buy him shoes and this happened in the > 40s or 50s. In a lot of cases the amount of blood varies because the > people did not want to be restricted if they were more than one fourth. I > am a Cherokee-volunteered for five years in our State Indian Archives > working closely with BIA, etc. in Washington. The Dawes enrollment was > for Cherokees who had landed in Indian Territory and this was between > 1898 and 1906-anyone born after that could get certified from either > parents or grandparents who were on the rolls. I've never gotten a CDIB > card but am right at one half. I too am descended from Nancy Ward. I'm > also retired from DHEW-Indian Health Service. Oleta > On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:51:39 EDT Smithfx7@aol.com writes: >> I am Cherokee and have a CDIB card and am a citizen of the Cherokee >> Nation >> in OK. My ancestors that are listed on the Dawes all have varying >> degrees of >> blood quantum, siblings with the same parents have different blood >> degrees. >> I was always told by my grandparents and great grandmother that >> most were >> afraid to say they were more Cherokee than they really were because >> if you were >> more than a 1/4 the government would assign a white overseer of >> your >> allotment. My blood line is fairly easy to trace since I am a >> descendant of Nancy >> Ward on my grandfather's side and Major John Downing on my >> grandmother's side >> there was a lot of documentation . I also see differences in blood >> degree >> on the 1900 census vs the Dawes roll in what my ancestors listed. >> I think >> that makes no difference in how that reflected in their Cherokee >> pride. We >> have to remember that times were different back then most were just >> trying to >> survive. My ancestors started out wealthy and ended up poor my >> great >> grandmother lost her husband and 6 children from sickness and >> accidents and on both >> sides of my family they had houses that burned down. I think it >> has taken >> all the way up to my generation to catch up, my sister's and I are >> the first >> to own houses and be able to keep up with the Jones's. >> >> Robin Smith >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> message >> >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIAN-TERRITORY-ROOTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >