In a message dated 3/8/99 8:33:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, fcmc1@fastdata.net writes: > Frank and other Listers: > > I would love to see intruder lists online. I don't have a copy but volunteer > to enter the data if someone will provide a copy. > > Alma Alma, Frank, and others, I had recommended Sharron Ashton's compilation to the listers. I was delighted to see a post from her and to know she must subscribe, too. I wonder if any of you know how Ancestry.com acquires its databases? Would Ashton consider selling her compilation if this website or another would consider buying it? I thought of posing the question today. Does any of you know a way of proposing it? Sharron, what would you say? --Rhonda

Message to the list from Frank Mayberry: > <snip> Reference a recent request for information on people who were > listed as intruders of the various Indian Tribes. Would the list owner > please place these lists upon receipt (provided there is a list) to the > subscribers of this list. <snip> Mr. Mayberry- As far as "the list owner" knows, the Intruder lists are not posted in any one place on the Internet, are not all in one single printed publication, and are contained on any number of rolls of microfilm (mostly unindexed), which are scattered throughout the tribal and U.S. records of the Five Civilized Tribes.. Therefore, she will humbly defer the gigantic assignment of extracting and putting all of this on Internet to someone who is MUCH younger than herself <grin>. There have been several discussions and suggestions concerning the Intruders on this mail list in the past few months. These messages should be available to anyone through the Indian Territory Roots Archives. I would suggest that anyone interested in these discussions go to http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl and type in "Indian-Territory-Roots" as the list that you want to search, then on the request form, type in the words "Intruder" and "Intruders". Best of luck jc

For a description of the microfilmed records on Intruders at the Oklahoma Historical Socety go to the site below. This takes you to a page where you can view or download the Archives microfilm catalog. You will need Adobe Acrobat Reader on your hard drive. http://www.ok-history.mus.ok.us/archives/indianrc/catpdfmf.html For a description of the microfilmed records on Intruders at the National Archives-Southwest Region (Fort Worth) check the NARA site to see if they have their catalog online. Some researchers who have the Native American Collection CD may not be aware that both catalogs plus the National Archives microfilm catalog are on that CD. Sharron Ashton

I found this compilation at my local library. It might be in yours; give them a call or ask them to order it. :-) Ashton, Sharron Standifer. Indians and intruders/ compiled by Sharron Standifer Ashton. Norman, Oklahoma: Ashton Pub., 1996 The entry I found there is in my notes as 1882. It's four volumes bound together, so now I'm not sure if all of them reference the same year. The call number at my library was F698.A74. (Many other helpful books on the Choctaws or the 5 Tribes were beside it.) Other bound compilations I found helpful: A Complete Roll of all Choctaw Claimants and Their Heirs: existing under the treaties between the United States and the Choctw nation: as far as shown by the records of the United States and of the Choctaw Nation / compiled and edited by Joe R. Goss. Conway, Ark.: Oldbuck Press, c1992. The original was published in 1889. The call number was E99.C8 C85 1992. Wiltshire, Betty Couch. Register of Choctaw emigrants to the West, 1831 and 1832 / compiled by Betty C. Wiltshire. Carrollton, MS: Pioneer Pub., c1993. Call number was E99.C8 W66 1993. Information for the book was copied directly from microfilm Roll #RG75, at the Mississippi Dept. of Archives and History. Olsen, Monty. Choctaw emigration records: 1831-1856 / Compiled and transcribed by Monty Olsen. Calera, OK: Bryan County Heritage Assn., 1990- Call number: E99.C8 O57 v.1-2 LeMaster, Arlene. Indian records, Choctaw Nation, Indian Territory, final rolls: Choctaw by blood, ages calculated to September 25, 1902 / transcribed, indexed and published by Arlene LeMaster. Poteau, OK: Arlene LeMaster: [distributed by] Family Heritage Resources, 1990-. Call # E99.C8 L47 Also, at Ancestry.Com, they have some or all of the Dawes Roll online for searching. I bought a 3-month subscription to the service and their databases. I don't think the Dawes Roll is one of their free databases. I hope this info is helpful to some of you. Rhonda

RLB119@aol.com wrote: > > ...The claim of the Choctaws and Cherokees were to the lands along the banks > and to the center of the Arkansas River. These rich bottom lands had been > used by > farmers for many years for free. > Doug > > Ah, this is all very interesting. I was researching the Robersons of Indian > Territory and found an E.C. Roberson on the Choctaws' 1882 intruder list. His > address was listed as Fort Smith, Arkansas, and he had been there 25 years. I > wondered if he lived in Fort Smith and farmed in the Territory. Now I wonder > if the Fort Smith homestead itself was in question. Any ideas? where did you find the intruders list? if you have easy access can you check for eldridges? thanks, steven r eldridge

Can someone tell me where I might find an Intruder List for the Chickasaw Nation for the time period 1880-1900 ?

I don't know the answer to the question if Fort Smith, AR was once a part of OK/IT but for whatever it is worth I found in my notes of several years ago: Oklahoma - Indian Territory Birth and death records 2 May 1890-10 Nov. 1907 Write: Clerk U.S. Dist. Court Fort Smith, Arkansas I have not used the above yet as I am just getting back to "genealogy." I am new to both computers and to this list. Bev

http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/okindex.htm under Funeral Homes you will find a listing for a Stufflebean Funeral Home in Pauls Valley complete with address and phone number. Marti > Does anyone have any information about the Stufflebean Funeral Home? I have > information that Alice Sumpter died in 1911 and I would like to contact the > funeral home to see if they have any more Sumpter's having used their > services.

Reference a recent request for information on people who were listed as intruders of the various Indian Tribes. Would the list owner please place these lists upon receipt (provided there is a list) to the subscribers of this list. I am sure that everyone who has ancestors that were in this area, would be glad to get a copy if but for no other reason, just to establish the fact that their ancestors were noted as being somewhere at this particular time. Like being noted on a Census list. It might be a valuable search tool. Thanks. My grandfather might be on the list, who knows, unless I see his name.

Thanks to all who responded to my request regarding Fort Smith, AR. It sounds like a great place I'd like to see someday. I have a picture of my great grandmother standing inside the walls of what I believe to be Fort Smith, but there is no date on the photo. There is, though, an old Ford (I think) in the background. It appears to be one of the old model T's. Here are some of the responses I received. And thank you again!!! Charlie From: angelears@alltel.net (Carolyn Smedley) To: CCCharlie1@aol.com ('CCCharlie1@aol.com') Charlie, the history of Fort Smith, Ar., Ok., and Texas were once as follows: We all know Texas became a state in 1845 so the first federal census was in 1850 right? Wrong. There was Miller County, Arkansas Territory enumerated in 1820 and again in 1830 which was within an area that is now part of North Eastern Texas. The 1820 census was taken for people living on both the north and south sides of the Red River, all within Texas and part of present day OKLAHOMA. The main settle ment there was Pecan Point. In 1828, Congress established the line between presnet day Arkansas and Oklahoma as the Eastern boundary of the Indian Territory. At that time any whitle settlers north of the Red River were removed to area south of the River. By the time of the 1830 census several thousand people were living just south of the Red River and completely within the present state of TEXAS, but they thought they were in Miller County, Arkansas Territory. It was not until 1841 that a new survey revealed the error and the treaty line bettween Texas and Louisiana and Texas and Arkansas was marked properly on the ground. The area of present day Miller County, Ar. has only a small 4 to 5 mile wide stripe of land that was int he orginal area of Old Miller Co. Texas also had a Greer Co. til OKLAHOMA took it away from them. It functioned as a county for ten years with representatives to Austin, but in 1890 the government refused to acknowledge Greer Co. thus putting Greer Co. in OKLAHOMA. For the perior 1886-1896 people living in Greer Co., Texas/Oklahoma may have left marks in both states. Also Fort Smith, Ar., Prior to 1800 the area had been inhabited by the Osage. After the lOuisiana Purchase in 1803, the land fell within the Missouri Territory and the federal government began to move Indian tribes, most notiably the Cherokk, from the east into the Arkansas River Valley. The colonization authorized by President Tomas Jefferson brought nearly 2,000 Cherokee from their homes in Georgia and Tenn. to Arkansas. William L. Lovely established a Cherokke sub-agency at Belle Pint, the picturesque bluff over-looking the Poteau and the Arkansas and monityored the infulux. The Osage and Cherokkee weren't the only tribes in Western Arkansas and what would become EASTERN OKLAHOMA. Parties of Comanche and Quapaw also used the area as their hunting grounds. But it was the Cherokee and the Osage who most frequently - and violently- clashed. By 1817 the intertribal unrest treatening to rturn into all out was, Acting Sec. of War Richard Graham authorized an army post at the point where the Osage Line and Ark. River met. The new Fort Smith was established finally in 1838. Note: Sorry, this is so long but I have tried to give you the info ;you needed, Charlie. P. S. Fort Smith is Sebastian County....Saline County is in South Arkansas near Hot Springs, Ar. Good luck, Carolyn From: LBCane To: CCCharlie1 according to a map in the book, "Trail of Tears", by John Ehle, Fort Smith is not part of Oklahoma, it is in Arkansas, also according to this map Indian Territory is in Oklahoma. If this is not correct let me know. LBCane@aol.com

You can check at http://www.okgenweb for information about both. Kate KSSOONERS@aol.com wrote: > Can someone tell me: was Lawton (Comanche Co.) Indian Territory or Oklahoma > Territory? What about Waurika (Jefferson Co)? Which was it considered.? I > grew up there and remember something about it being both. > > Thanks! > sbd

...The claim of the Choctaws and Cherokees were to the lands along the banks and to the center of the Arkansas River. These rich bottom lands had been used by farmers for many years for free. Doug Ah, this is all very interesting. I was researching the Robersons of Indian Territory and found an E.C. Roberson on the Choctaws' 1882 intruder list. His address was listed as Fort Smith, Arkansas, and he had been there 25 years. I wondered if he lived in Fort Smith and farmed in the Territory. Now I wonder if the Fort Smith homestead itself was in question. Any ideas?

Indian Territory was established out of the state of Arkansas in the late 1820s for the removal of the "Five Civilized Tribes", from near the southern LeFlore County line and south was Miller County, north was Crawford County. It took many years to settle where the Eastern Arkansas/ Western Indian Territory boundry was and at one time Tom Wall, a prominent Choctaw claimed that the Old Fort, Ft. Smith was on Choctaw Nation land and laid personal claim to it. Fort Smith was established on Dec. 25, 1817. The town of Ft. Smith was established in 1840. Choctaws and Chickasaws passed through Ft. Smith on their way to the Choctaw Agency at Skullyville some 15 miles to the west, Cherokees continued on up the Arkansas to Gt. Gibson and Creeks and Seminoles on up the river. The claim of the Choctaws and Cherokees were to the lands along the banks and to the center of the Arkansas River. These rich bottom lands had been used by farmers for many years for free. Doug OKIEDAND@aol.com wrote: > As I am from the Ft Smith Area I am very interested in what you find out. I > myself have never heard of Ft Smith being a part of the Ok/IT. I have always > heard it was an outpost for the Indians as they were crossing over in OK. If > you are from that area you know that The River separates the AR/ OK border. It > is right on the banks of the river were Judge Parker "The hanging Judge" court > was at. As you cross the Garrison Ave Bridge going That crosses the River the > state line in about the center of the Bridge which would be the center of the > river. So there is a very thin line between AR/OK. I remember back about 10 > maybe 15 years ago the Indians clamed that the banks on the AR side was there > land & wanted to be paid for it. Never heard how that come out. > Your Mothers Maiden name was Taylor? My maiden name was Taylor. I am > researching the Taylors in AR. Trying to find info on my Great-grandfather > Marshal Taylor. > Be sure & post what you find out. And good luck. > Barbara

I am searching for any information on James and Jane TAYLOR. They lived in Stafford county VA in the mid 1800's. They had four children: Mary, William, Gay and Susan. They might have been Native American. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Bud Scott rscott@crosslink.net

Great Uncle-Elmer Finley taught in the Indian Territories ca. 1903. Would like to find: Where he lived and taught and how long he taught in the Territories. Elmer died during the 1918 influenza outbreak. I have also posted on the OKGenWeb Twin Territories site. Any and all suggestions on how to find the whereabouts of my Elmer will be appreciated. Jan

Can someone tell me: was Lawton (Comanche Co.) Indian Territory or Oklahoma Territory? What about Waurika (Jefferson Co)? Which was it considered.? I grew up there and remember something about it being both. Thanks! sbd

Linda, I'm not sure about the Choctaws. I've read that the Creeks, when in I.T., did not punish whites in their nation, because of complications (treaties, fear of retaliation...) with the U.S. They referred such cases to the Indian Agent, or to the court at Ft. Smith. The "Intruder Lists" referred to so much in this forum are one form of this action. Some Indian punishments were pretty harsh. The Creeks used whipping, mutilation (removal of ears...) and death for some infractions we consider civil misdemeanors today. Since the Creeks were matrilineal (you belonged to your mother's family, not your father's) when they came to I.T., it doesn't seem likely that the nation would go along with a mother's story denying her son's birth. Unless his mother was white? I'm not sure how the Choctaws looked at family matters. Angie Debo wrote a lot about the 5 Civilized Tribes. I've learned a lot about I.T. and the 5CT's by looking at her works. Grant Foreman is another author who's written a lot about the tribes. I'd recommend either one of them as a starting point for learning more about customs, politics and history of I.T. Chuck Miles -----Original Message----- From: Lincat14@aol.com <Lincat14@aol.com> To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 12:19 AM Subject: Crimes >Can anyone tell me how the Choctaw punished within the tribe? Old family story >relates that an ancestor, half breed, committed a crime, and to keep him from >being punished by the Indians, his mother said he was white. Anybody know >anything that might help clear this up some for me? Surely the indians were as >fair as the whites when choosing punishments for the crimes.....Thanks if >anyone can help.... >Linda >Oklahoma > >______________________________

Barbara, The Cherokee won their lawsuit. Their claim was based on land that was under the river when the allotments were made. When the river moved, the uncovered land had not been allotted. Their claim also included mineral rights to the land under the river, so the U.S. is still calculating the value of all that sand that has been mined from Indian Territory. This doesn't have a lot to do with genealogy, but it does give us a clue to why there's been so much confusion over what is "Indian Territory." Chuck Miles -----Original Message----- From: OKIEDAND@aol.com <OKIEDAND@aol.com> To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, March 07, 1999 9:40 AM Subject: Re: Fort Smith, AR >As I am from the Ft Smith Area I am very interested in what you find out. I >myself have never heard of Ft Smith being a part of the Ok/IT. I have always >heard it was an outpost for the Indians as they were crossing over in OK. If >you are from that area you know that The River separates the AR/ OK border. It >is right on the banks of the river were Judge Parker "The hanging Judge" court >was at. As you cross the Garrison Ave Bridge going That crosses the River the >state line in about the center of the Bridge which would be the center of the >river. So there is a very thin line between AR/OK. I remember back about 10 >maybe 15 years ago the Indians clamed that the banks on the AR side was there >land & wanted to be paid for it. Never heard how that come out. >Your Mothers Maiden name was Taylor? My maiden name was Taylor. I am >researching the Taylors in AR. Trying to find info on my Great-grandfather >Marshal Taylor. >Be sure & post what you find out. And good luck. >Barbara >

Does anyone have any information about the Stufflebean Funeral Home? I have information that Alice Sumpter died in 1911 and I would like to contact the funeral home to see if they have any more Sumpter's having used their services. I am Looking for John E. Sumpter (Choctaw, b: 1886), his wife Amanda (Lomer,Loomer) Sumpter (Chickasaw, b: 1890) Daughters: Florence Sumpter, b: 1907 Alice Sumpter, b: 1909 d: 1911 in Pauls Valley, OK Funeral in Foster, OK Cleo Sumpter, b: 1913 Nancy Sumpter, b: 1917 Sons: Leo Sumpter b:1913 (twin of Cleo) John W. Sumpter b: 1916 Tecumseh Sumpter b: 1920 If anyone has the address for Stufflebean Funeral Home or has access to it's records, please email me at: Lenape2@msn.com Anyone with access to the Choctaw records or the Chickasaw records, please email me at the above address. Anyone who knew or whose family knew the above Sumpter's , please email me at the above address. Thanks you, Susan Cade Lenape2@msn.com

As I am from the Ft Smith Area I am very interested in what you find out. I myself have never heard of Ft Smith being a part of the Ok/IT. I have always heard it was an outpost for the Indians as they were crossing over in OK. If you are from that area you know that The River separates the AR/ OK border. It is right on the banks of the river were Judge Parker "The hanging Judge" court was at. As you cross the Garrison Ave Bridge going That crosses the River the state line in about the center of the Bridge which would be the center of the river. So there is a very thin line between AR/OK. I remember back about 10 maybe 15 years ago the Indians clamed that the banks on the AR side was there land & wanted to be paid for it. Never heard how that come out. Your Mothers Maiden name was Taylor? My maiden name was Taylor. I am researching the Taylors in AR. Trying to find info on my Great-grandfather Marshal Taylor. Be sure & post what you find out. And good luck. Barbara