Jimmie & Bobbie... >One thing we would like to know is what territory would >Clinton or Arapaho , Custer Co.,OK have been in 1889-1900? According to the "Map guide to the US Federal Census" by Dollarhide: In May of 1890 most of the area that is now Custer County was not in "Indian Territory", but was within a larger part of the just created "Oklahoma Territory" that was under the jurisdiction of The Cheyenne & Arapaho. By 1900 it was still in "Oklahoma Territory" but by then had been formed into "Custer County, Oklahoma Territory". Except for a narrow strip along it's eastern border that was still part of the Wichita jurisdiction, it had much the same boundaries it has today. I hope that helps.. Phil (pknox@earthlink.net) For Ruch/Rugh Family Genealogy, great links, & just plain fun... visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~pknox/

I am seeking information on the following people who may be related to Jessie Hamilton of Arkansas: Doke (no middle name) HAMILTON, who married Mary E. (Molly) WEBB. Doke and Molly moved from Russelville to Indian Territory (OK) about 1895. Kim

Hi All, I am searching for information on George Burney Rennie who had a daughter Martha (Polly) born 1806 in Kentucky. He may have also had a son named George Burney Rennie but not sure. There is a George Burney Rennie listed on the Final Rolls of Citezens and Freemen for the Chickasaw Nation but I am not even sure when this rolls was taken. Does anyone know? He is listed as age 21 M 3/8 456. Any help would be greatly appriciated. Thanks Connie

Georgia- The e-mail address of the sponsor of the event, James Johnston, is listed at the end of the notice that I sent to the group. He would be the one to ask questions of. jc > I have been away and have spent all day checking the mail. Just really looked > at the notice on June 5 about the Fair. We have people in some of those > counties, and learning about the photo reading and how to use them, etc. sounds > really helpful. I have a ton of old photos that I can't identify. Is there any > way to get some of the information that was covered there?

We also enjoy the information from the list. We really enjoyed the" life in the 1500's". We can't see why anyone would object. to it. We found it very interesting. One thing we would like to know is what territory would Clinton or Arapaho , Custer Co.,OK have been in 1889-1900? If anyone could answer this We would really appreciate it. We are not sure the family was American Indian or not and would appreciate a little help as to how to find out. There were white settlers living at that time in Indian Terr. where would you find a record of them. Sincerely, Jimmie and Bobbie Taylor

Hi Jerri: Thanks for the fast reply. As I said when I subscribed I am new to this computer and e-mail lists, etc. Must confess that at first a was trashing and deleting things that I obviously should not have done away with. I knew that I would not be able to attend that Fair, so didn't think I needed the notice. I am reading things more carefully now, and that will not happen again. I apologize for being such a dunderhead. Would it be possible for someone to send me Mr. Johnson's e-mail address again? Thanks for your help. Oh, I have a question about something else. Someone wrote in to complain about the articles on Life in the 1500s. He (?) used profanity in his complaint. I am sure that is not allowed. I am wondering what action was taken to chastise him -- or her? Personally, I enjoyed those articles, and as for them not having to do with genealogy, I think it is good to know how our long-ago relatives lived. And it is certainly more pertinent than was his complaint! Thanks again. Georgia Stubblefield

Hello List: I have been away and have spent all day checking the mail. Just really looked at the notice on June 5 about the Fair. We have people in some of those counties, and learning about the photo reading and how to use them, etc. sounds really helpful. I have a ton of old photos that I can't identify. Is there any way to get some of the information that was covered there? Thanks. Georgia (DeMasters) Stubblefield

Hi list. A very kind lady sent me the URL below because I could not find the town where my g mother was born. The site is an 1895 atlas. The link will take you to a page that has a selection of all states. http://fermi.jhuapl.edu/states/1895/ Jeannie :) Publisher of The Jericho Wall Genealogy Newsletter In a message dated 5/17/1999 5:44:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MRosson178@aol.com writes: << Thank you all for helping me place Texann as Texana. Our g grandmother was born there in 1899. Her father leased their farm land, they later moved to Welty. I guess my map isn't old enough to show it. Thank you so much for all the replies and help. Mary Lou >>

I just ordered a book from Amazon.com "Cherokee Connections" by Myra Vanderpool Gormley. I find this book extremely helpful with detailed list of where to go to look for names, census, etc. It is small, easy to read and extremely helpful with interesting insights into Cherokee culture as well. I'm finding it very helpful in my ongoing search for gggrandfather. Good luck. Mary ou

Thank you all for helping me place Texann as Texana. Our g grandmother was born there in 1899. Her father leased their farm land, they later moved to Welty. I guess my map isn't old enough to show it. Thank you so much for all the replies and help. Mary Lou

Hi fellow Searchers: I have just read the note from Jim & Jenny who are on Soc. Sec. and are managing to contribute $24.00 a year. That is only $2.00 a month. Many of us could save that from Pop cans! I agree with them. It is just a matter of priorities. If you enjoy finding the information that is provided, you could pay a little in order to get more. Having the census records available would help all of us -- a lot. I have 10 years on Jim, and am also on a fixed income, but I have become a contributor. Have cancelled all my magazine subscriptions. Haven't time to read them anyway. I am always at this computer. Good luck to all in your searches. I have really enjoyed this particular list, even the life in the 1500s -- true or not. I did not, however, enjoy the letter that complained about those entrys and used profanity to do so. I hope he was booted from the list. That kind of thing is not called for under any circumstances. And information on how our ancestors lived is pertinent to genealogy. It makes our long-ago relatives seem more real. Thanks for listening. James A. and Georgia (DeMasters) Stubblefield

It isn't on the map, but "Placenames of Oklahoma" says that Texanna was located in eastern McIntosh County- 9 miles northeast of Eufaula. Could this be the place you are looking for? See Sharron Ashton's excellent publications (3 volumes); "Indians and Intruders", for many of the people who were living under permit as renters, hirelings, etc. jc ~~ MRosson178@aol.com wrote: > Hi JC > > Would you please look on your map and see if you see a place called Texann. > It was west of Ft. Smith, I think. Also, if a family lived under a permit, > is this recorded somewhere? > > Thanks > > Mary Lou

Hi JC Would you please look on your map and see if you see a place called Texann. It was west of Ft. Smith, I think. Also, if a family lived under a permit, is this recorded somewhere? Thanks Mary Lou

Bobby, According to this same map, Rush Springs was yet another stage stop on the same stage route, and was sitting just a couple of miles east of the Oklahoma Territory line. At that time the town of Duncan was just "Duncan's Store" according to the map. William Duncan was an intermarried white-- married to a Chickasaw wife. Another map that I have shows the Chisholm Trail as running almost parallel to the border, but on the Indian Territory side. It looks as if the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific railroad company later followed the old Chisholm Trail exactly. They were not so dumb! With all of the trail herds that were driven across it, it would have made an excellent railroad bed to lay the tracks on. jc ~~ Bobbie Beasley wrote: > I live in Stephens Co., OK. I know where Stagestand Creek is located, there > is also a Stagestand Ranch and Stagestand housing addition. > > I have no hard facts, but I know I have seen Duncan, OK referred to as > Duncan, IT in references to the Chisholm Trail....I don't know the time > frame, sorry. I would be happy to check this out if you want more. > Bobbie Turner Beasley

I live in Stephens Co., OK. I know where Stagestand Creek is located, there is also a Stagestand Ranch and Stagestand housing addition. I have no hard facts, but I know I have seen Duncan, OK referred to as Duncan, IT in references to the Chisholm Trail....I don't know the time frame, sorry. I would be happy to check this out if you want more. Bobbie Turner Beasley -----Original Message----- From: Charles Prichard <cprichar@sirinet.net> To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, May 16, 1999 4:40 PM Subject: RE: Chickasaw Nation - Western boundary question >I need the help of a historian/geographer. Or at least a good reference >for the following genealogy question. > >My father, Harve Henry Prichard was born in 1898 in IT. Between 1892 and >early 1900s, his father, John Henry Prichard (being a Baptist Minster) >moved the family between this location and Tarrant Co. Texas several times >. Several years ago, my father took me to the "place" where he was born >and raised. By today's landmarks, the location was in present day Stephens >Co., Oklahoma - some 3 miles south of OK #7 highway and 4 miles west of US >#81 very near the Lawton, Duncan Y. The community and the school ( by >statehood in 1907 ) were all known by the name of a local creek, >"Stagestand". (I do not think it was ever incorporated as a town) > >Now, my question: > Would this geographic location have been IT, Chickasaw Nation or would it >have been in far eastern Comanche lands? From my Oklahoma History course, >it seems to me that during this period, the western boundary of Chickasaw >Nation and the eastern boundary of Comanche Lands was the Indian Meridian. > I was also taught that this boundary was basically the route of US #81 >highway At question, more specifically, would the 1900 IT census >including "Intruders" cover this area? and, would that mean that my >grandfather was there illegally? > >Any information or references to sources would be appreciated. > > > > > >

Charles- How about submitting you question to "a map-pack-rat"-- one who can never pass up the opportunity to copy a good map <grin>. I have a copy of a map published by "Alvin J. Johnson and Co, New York" and it is titled "Johnson's Indian Territory" (no dates). It shows the entire stage route from Ft Smith AR, to the Kiowa and Comanche Agency, then going south into Texas. Just about 18 miles west of the Arbuckle Mts and a few miles south of Wild Horse Creek is a place called "Stage Station". It definitely is in the Chickasaw Nation. As for your ancestor being considered "an Intruder"-- no, most likely living under a permit. By 1890 the citizens of the Chickasaw Nation was less than 10% of the population that was there. jc ~~ Charles Prichard wrote: > I need the help of a historian/geographer. Or at least a good reference > for the following genealogy question. > > My father, Harve Henry Prichard was born in 1898 in IT. Between 1892 and > early 1900s, his father, John Henry Prichard (being a Baptist Minster) > moved the family between this location and Tarrant Co. Texas several times > . Several years ago, my father took me to the "place" where he was born > and raised. By today's landmarks, the location was in present day Stephens > Co., Oklahoma - some 3 miles south of OK #7 highway and 4 miles west of US > #81 very near the Lawton, Duncan Y. The community and the school ( by > statehood in 1907 ) were all known by the name of a local creek, > "Stagestand". (I do not think it was ever incorporated as a town) > > Now, my question: > Would this geographic location have been IT, Chickasaw Nation or would it > have been in far eastern Comanche lands? From my Oklahoma History course, > it seems to me that during this period, the western boundary of Chickasaw > Nation and the eastern boundary of Comanche Lands was the Indian Meridian. > I was also taught that this boundary was basically the route of US #81 > highway At question, more specifically, would the 1900 IT census > including "Intruders" cover this area? and, would that mean that my > grandfather was there illegally? > > Any information or references to sources would be appreciated.

I need help finding information on the first name of ___Fergerson/Ferguson who was shot and killed in Indian Territory 1881. It was probably in the summer of that year. This Fergerson was with a group of lawmen to make an arrest of a thief. When Fergerson stepped onto the porch, he was shot at through the door and fell dead. His son was born in Indiana the next day. His wife "Kim" Catherine or Quindolyn Jane Williams had son John Edgar Fergerson on 27 Aug 1881. The son lived in Missouri with grandmother then went to Fannin Co. Tx. to live with his mother's brother George H. Williams. This George Williams was married to Iday and had children Luther, E.P. and Ben. Any help is very much appreciated. Elsie

I need the help of a historian/geographer. Or at least a good reference for the following genealogy question. My father, Harve Henry Prichard was born in 1898 in IT. Between 1892 and early 1900s, his father, John Henry Prichard (being a Baptist Minster) moved the family between this location and Tarrant Co. Texas several times . Several years ago, my father took me to the "place" where he was born and raised. By today's landmarks, the location was in present day Stephens Co., Oklahoma - some 3 miles south of OK #7 highway and 4 miles west of US #81 very near the Lawton, Duncan Y. The community and the school ( by statehood in 1907 ) were all known by the name of a local creek, "Stagestand". (I do not think it was ever incorporated as a town) Now, my question: Would this geographic location have been IT, Chickasaw Nation or would it have been in far eastern Comanche lands? From my Oklahoma History course, it seems to me that during this period, the western boundary of Chickasaw Nation and the eastern boundary of Comanche Lands was the Indian Meridian. I was also taught that this boundary was basically the route of US #81 highway At question, more specifically, would the 1900 IT census including "Intruders" cover this area? and, would that mean that my grandfather was there illegally? Any information or references to sources would be appreciated.

Also check http://www.flash.net/~kma/

I'm writing in reference to the request for information on " Black Dutch". I found web pages on the internet that answer your question as to where the term originated. I was very satisfied with the answers I found. I had only to ask Alta Vista.