~~~~~~(Oops. Sorry if this gets there twice.)~~~~~~~~~~~ Hi. I've been watching this list forever, but haven't written for at least 6 months or so. I have a few more clues now, so thought I'd post again... I am trying to find the parents of Noah WALL. He was born Sept.15, 1785 in Rowan County, NC. He was married, first to Lucretia FOLSOME, then, after Lucretia's death, to Eunice CLOUGH. She was a missionary to the Choctaw Indians, and moved with them to Oklahoma Indian Territory. They both died in 1842, soon after my g-g-grandfather Samuel Clough WALL was born. He was raised by his older half-brother, Dave. Sam Clough WALL married Ellen JACKSON. Ellen was the widow of Giles THOMPSON, who was the widower of Sam's two (count 'em, TWO) older half-sisters, Charlotte and Sallie. Do these people sound familiar to anyone? I'm especially looking for info on Noah and on Eunice CLOUGH, and Ellen JACKSON, but would appreciate anything anyone can add. I'm fairly new to this, so I hope I'm doing it right... Thanx, Cheri

Here is the continuing...index of the Indian Pioneer Papers--Western History Collection---University of Oklahoma. The Indian Pioneer History Papers is a collection of interviews done in 1937 & 1938, which includes biographical data on both living and deceased persons of Indian and pioneer heritage whose lives have been important in the history of Oklahoma. There is also a collection of information on family customs, tribal histories, social organizations, folklore, legends, cemeteries, old trails, ferries, forts, trading centers and other unrecorded facts known only to oral tradition. VOLUME 67----LDS MICROFICHE #6016932-----8 FICHE--- NAME ADDRESS NICHOLAS, E.L. Mangum, OK NICHOLAS, John M. Morrison, OK NICHOLS, Eva Spicer Whitetree Miami, OK NICHOLS, H.W. McAlester, OK NICHOLS, J.B. Hartshorne, OK NICHOLS, R.L. Pauls Valley, OK NICHOLS, Wade Ardmore, OK NICHOLS, William B. Duncan, OK NICHOLSON, George Lee Bartlesville, OK NICHOLSON, H.C.(Mrs) Perry, OK NICHOLSON, Ike Bartlesville, OK NICHOLSON, W.J. Tulsa, OK NICKELS, F.E. Cole, OK NICKERSON, Frank Shattuck, OK NICKLES, Alice Kingfisher, OK NICKLES, W.H. " " NIEMAN, W.H. Blanchard, OK NILES, Margaret R. Foley El Reno, OK NILES, Van A. " " " NIXON, Lula Antlers, OK NOAH, Elmer Ellsworth Hobart, OK NOAH, Frances Antlers, OK NOAH, Sarah Atoka, OK NOBLE, Annie V. Checotah, OK NOBLE, Frank Hominy, OK NOBLE, John Henry Meeker, OK NOBLE, William Oklahoma City, OK NOEL, J.F. Cherokee, OK NOEL, Sara (Sallie) Antlers, OK NORDSTROM, Gust Edmond, OK NORMAN, Lynn W. no address given NORRIS, A.G. Lawton, OK NORRIS, Elsie A. no address given NORRIS, Emily Daisy, OK NORRIS, G.W. Blanchard, OK NORRIS, Maud Parshall Lawton, OK NORRIS, Sam NORTH, C.V. Oklahoma City, OK NORTHCUTT, Rebekah Sentinel, OK NORTHCUTT, W.O. Mangum, OK NORTHRIP, J.E. Antlers, OK NORTHRIP, M.A. Clinton, OK NORTHUP, Don Dover, OK NORTON, Kitty Chickasha, OK NORWOOD, Ben A. Hugo, OK NORWOOD, Marshall Clay Durant, OK NOTTINGHAM, William Jasper Tahlequah, OK NULL, O.E.,et al Arnett, OK NUNLEY, Riley Poteau, OK TO BE CONTINUED.........

Relax everybody! I think Jim was just trying to find out if anyone was using his outlandish remarks to stir people into posting. Remember someone said to another person here that is sure had been a quiet day? I have a feeling that Jim didn't mean the things he said. what do you think?

B. J.-- I'm not researching the family, but I do have some of the EXCELLENT books publish by the Bryan County Heritage Association. There is a John A. Meeks (b/9 May 1833- d/25 Feb 1901) and Annie Meeks, "wife of John A." (b/3 Dec 1849- d/4 Feb 1908) shown as being buried in The Garden of Memory Cemetery at Colbert, Bryan County, OK. This is according to the Bryan County Cemetery Book, Vol II, page 23. jc "B.J. Clay" wrote: > trying to locate g-g-grandparents burial site. My g-g-grandparents, > John and Jennie Meek(s), were both born in TN and came to I.T. about > 1900. The best information is that they died and were buried somewhere > in Bryan County. If anyone is researching this family or has any > information, I would be glad to exchange what information I have. B.J. > (Massey) Clay

Dear Jim, My GGG Great mother was full blood Chickasaw INDIAN. And I 'm proud to be her ggg great daughter. My grand mother was a wonderful women, I was with her went she took her last breath. She had a very hard life because she married a White man. And he got rich off the land my grandmother was able to get for him. That was ok. But the rest of the time she lived in fear that someone might fine out she was an INDIAN. I started out wanting to prove my INDIAN heritage from my grandparents. But now it just obession and love. You know what, JIM, I want to prove my WHITE grandfather's had as much INDIAN blood in him. I know he had just as much in his family as my grand mother did. He was born in Tenn. And had to leave his land. What I have learn from the history of the Indian lives. I never judge any one of what color they are because I probable have BLACK, and every other blood in me and I will just as proud. The reason of my obsession is I promise my Grandmother before she died, I would Thank God for this beautiful lady who thought me her ways, and to love everyone. Jim I don't think you knew how many you hurt my your remarks. If you don't want to be on INDIAN TERR mailing list UNSUBCRIBE. Thank you, Montana Blue P.S. My uncle gave me the name Montana after the country singer Patsy in the 50's , an Elder of my INDIAN heritage gave me the name Blue. I 'm so proud of my Indian family and who else I might find in that closet.

Bonnie, I am sorry my books are packed, but I do have a list of them. There is a small red book entitled "Kentucky Colonization in Texas" by Seymour V. Connor that may help you if your library has it or can get it on loan. I am sorry I can not look it up for you. Marlene

trying to locate g-g-grandparents burial site. My g-g-grandparents, John and Jennie Meek(s), were both born in TN and came to I.T. about 1900. The best information is that they died and were buried somewhere in Bryan County. If anyone is researching this family or has any information, I would be glad to exchange what information I have. B.J. (Massey) Clay

oliver thornton married amanda r. stanneart 1/1/1901. oliver and two of amanda's brother ran the cherokee strip. anyone out there related? thanks, jo ann (thoronton) gibson Cindy Bolinger wrote: > > I am addressing this to the moderator, through this list, because I do not > know how to contact him/her. I believe, probably like most on this list, > that as far as Roots-web is concerned, this discussion is for the discussion > of genealogy in the Indian Territories, just like it would be for Oklahoma > as a state, but for the time period when it was a territory, before > statehood. > > Having said that, we should be open to all discussions of RESOURCES > available to research our ancestors who lived in Indian Territory, be they > white, red or green. Political discussions should be sent to one of the > sociologically related groups, and there are plenty of them there. > > I have seen the moderator step in on other issues, and feel it is time to > start reviewing some of these issues. I am tempted to just unsubscribe, but > I really do need help in researching my CURTIS, AARON, THOMPSON lines in > Indian Territory, and would like to get what I can out of this list without > wading through the finger pointing. Thanks. > > Cindy Bolinger

My Thorntons came from Lunenburg Co Va and Surry Co NC. I have church records etc back to early 1700's. I do not show Oliver but a notation had been made that one Thornton had married an Indian and had gone West. The Thorntons are much in the STARR's History of the Cherokee Indian book. Amos m Forman, Richard Forman Thornton and others. Coral Babb

You wrote: [Snip]...Enmon Martin should be an easy name to find but it >isn't and he wrote down two different birth dates (6 yrs apart) and two >different birth places (TX and OK.).... My great-grandmother, Rebecca E. Martin Howard, who was of Cherokee ancestry, had a brother named Enos Q. Martin. He was born in California but resided in Oklahoma at times from 1890 to ?. Would be interested in comparing with your Martin line. Rhetta Lance rhedon@harborside.com

In a message dated 6/8/99 9:45:31 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Indian-Territory-Roots-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: << Welp, we've sure beat this to death. Its doubtful that anyone's mind has been changed one way or the other, so why don't we just move on. >> LOL, Yup, New Subject Hi all, I'm not going to comment on the racial heritage of either of these lines for fear of starting yet another discussion on that subject, except to say that I have an intense curiosity to know the stories of these family members whatever their nationality..... I'd really love to hear from anyone who might have information on J.N. "Newt" Rice, who was a rancher/farmer/sometimes lawman? in IT. Newt came to IT sometime around the end of the 1880s, rode the length of the Chisholm trail at least twice befor marrying Josephine Kyle in Texas and moving to IT. His children were born in Old Cornish (births between 1895-1908). Newt's daughter, Bonnie, received mail addressed to her simply as Bonnie Rice, Indian Territory! Newt was foreman for Bill Washington's ranch in both Oklahoma and also (for a time) in what would become Carlsbad, New Mexico. I'm also searching for Martin F. Rogers, his wife Lizzy Unknownmaidenname, their three sons Alfred b. 1904, Walter b. 1897and Wallace Madison Rogers b. 1893. Martin's father was born in Texas abt. 1845ish, his mother was from Ky abt. the same time, Martin was b. 1870 (+/- 1) in Ky, Lizzy b. 1868 (+/- 1) Ky, according to 1910 census. Lizzy's parents both were from Ky and two of the three boys were born in Ky, while Alfred was b. in Tx. They were in and out of IT several times, finally settling in Cache Co. after statehood. Bonnie

> I have my mothers mother back 4 generations but her dad's is a dead wall. > Enmon Martin should be an easy name to find but it isn't and he wrote down two > different birth dates (6 yrs apart) and two different birth places (TX and > OK.) Try "Inman Martin" on the same search. The census records are not infallible as to date or places of birth, but they are a starting place. jc

Cindy- and ALL subscribers! I am watching this message thread, and have sent PRIVATE messages to a couple of the respondents who appeared to be going a bit too far. But if you will remember, the start of this string was a complaint that there was no mail being sent to the list! Some of the people who have posted to this thread remarked that they had never posted before, so perhaps this exchange will encourage them to post their information and questions now. If it gets abusive- rest assured that I WILL step in! Jerri Chasteen List Owner ~~ Cindy Bolinger wrote: > I am addressing this to the moderator, through this list, because I do not > know how to contact him/her. I believe, probably like most on this list, > that as far as Roots-web is concerned, this discussion is for the discussion > of genealogy in the Indian Territories, just like it would be for Oklahoma > as a state, but for the time period when it was a territory, before > statehood. > > Having said that, we should be open to all discussions of RESOURCES > available to research our ancestors who lived in Indian Territory, be they > white, red or green. Political discussions should be sent to one of the > sociologically related groups, and there are plenty of them there. > > I have seen the moderator step in on other issues, and feel it is time to > start reviewing some of these issues. I am tempted to just unsubscribe, but > I really do need help in researching my CURTIS, AARON, THOMPSON lines in > Indian Territory, and would like to get what I can out of this list without > wading through the finger pointing. Thanks. > > Cindy Bolinger

Dear Jim, My mother kept all family history from me because she was half Cherokee Indian. I was threatened that if I ever looked up my line ... so in school when we did family trees I made mine up, handed it in and destroyed it before bringing it home. I always felt something was missing. I love history and use to dream about who my family came from. My mother died two years ago and three months ago with my sisters help we started looking. I have met some relatives that are so nice. Family stories and history has been exchanged and I have my fathers side back to the revolutionary war twice (one on the brits and one on freedom.) I am very proud of this and excited when I hear the stories lift from the history pages and see my relatives there. Then I have my mothers mother back 4 generations but her dad's is a dead wall. Enmon Martin should be an easy name to find but it isn't and he wrote down two different birth dates (6 yrs apart) and two different birth places (TX and OK.) My mother changed her named, lied about where she was born and it has been really hard .... am I proud to be Cherokee ... YES! Why..... because it is a part of me, their struggles, their dreams, and their hopes. Just like I want to pass all of these on to my kids, grand kids and great grand kids. I am proud of all my forefathers and mothers. Their stories fill a hole in my sole. You may think that is corny but it is true. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Guest <jguest@republic.net> To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, June 06, 1999 9:14 PM Subject: Re: Missing mail >Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen wrote: >> >> It's just been very quiet this past week, Charlene. Perhaps your message will >> stir some of the "lurkers" into submitting their information! > >============== > >Jerri, > >Maybe this is the time to ask a question that has >been on my mind for a long time. Maybe it will >"stir" something up. > >Why in the world do some people want to be kin >to an Indian? Over the years I've seen people >want to get into the DAR or the Mayflower bunch >or some other "status" group and it has turned >me off. > >Same for folks who seem to think there is some >kind of status in being kin to an Indian. How >often do we hear something like, "My grandmother >was supposed to be full/half/quarter (take your >pick) Indian. I even heard one lady "brag" about >some supposed kin of her's that she said was a >"three-feather Cherokee princess", whatever that's >supposed to be. > >My grandmother used to tell us kids that our >grandfather's, grandfather was some famous >Indian chief in Alabama in the early 1800's. > >Because of this story, this was the LAST line >I did when I began doing research. I figured >it was just another one of those "Indian stories". > >As it turned out my grandmother was right, but >does it make me any different because some guy >180 years ago was an "Indian"? He was no different >from any other of my ancestors. Was he more >"noble" or "braver" than my other ancestors. Not >in my opinion. So what's the big deal with having >an Indian in your "closet". > >Jim

I am addressing this to the moderator, through this list, because I do not know how to contact him/her. I believe, probably like most on this list, that as far as Roots-web is concerned, this discussion is for the discussion of genealogy in the Indian Territories, just like it would be for Oklahoma as a state, but for the time period when it was a territory, before statehood. Having said that, we should be open to all discussions of RESOURCES available to research our ancestors who lived in Indian Territory, be they white, red or green. Political discussions should be sent to one of the sociologically related groups, and there are plenty of them there. I have seen the moderator step in on other issues, and feel it is time to start reviewing some of these issues. I am tempted to just unsubscribe, but I really do need help in researching my CURTIS, AARON, THOMPSON lines in Indian Territory, and would like to get what I can out of this list without wading through the finger pointing. Thanks. Cindy Bolinger

I am searching for any of the following MARTIN's: J. F. Martin and Laura Martin...Paris, TX James F. G. Martin and Unknown Attebury....TX James F. G. Martin and Cornelia Ann (Sis)Gray Martin..Paris, TX then moved to the Calvin, I. T. or Stuart area. Their son was my father. My father William Martin was born in Calvin, I.T. Oct. 1, 1899 Daddy had a half-brother and half-sister born in Paris, Lamar, Co. TX John Martin(b. 1885) and Martha Lucinda (Lucy) Martin (b. 1890).Their mother was an Attebury (and I'm not sure of the spelling of that). Daddy's other half-brother was James G. Martin, who just took the Martin name I'm told after my grandmother Cornelia Gray married my Grandfather. I am told that his birth name was MOORE. Confusing history..huh? Hopefully someone out there can help me figure this all out. This is the hardest family to search. Thank you. Vivian (Martin) Sternenberg Vivian Sternenberg topaz54@excite.com Pittsburg Co. http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpitts2/index.htm TOPAZ's Family Ties http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Ridge/5443 OK Surnames: MARTIN, MASON, HALL, KERNS, KETCHUM, BROWN, BAKER, STANDRIDGE North Bend, Oregon _______________________________________________________ Get your free, private email at http://mail.excite.com/

I am looking for informaton on William Johnson Melton, b. Mar 27, 1856, d. april 25 1894. m. Mary Melcina Mollie Williams, b. May 10, 1868 Burlington, Texas, d. Nov 2, 1954. Son, George Leonard Milton, b. Feb 8, 1892, Greer?? Co. I.T. Mary was also married to William's brother John Henry Milton, and later to Lee Allen. Any help would be appreciated. Jim, To separate myself from bad press (I am not the Jim who everyone seems to be writing about) I will start using my nickname "Birdman"

And even though I am also new to this mailing list, Amen, to what Diane Singleton said in response to Jim's recent post that has brought on so many more. And I can prove that I am of Choctaw heritage by my great-grandmother's roll number and death certificate, although the difference in degree of blood on the two documents is "any body's guess" except that I tend to agree with everyone else in that most Indians were not very proud to be such during those early years (before OK became a state). And even though these two documents differ, and I can not put a finger to the degree of blood I may or may not be, I am also one who is researching and doing genealogy because I want to know about my ancestors and their history of those that came before myself and others. I love history as well. Off my soap box. Jacque Hopkins Wolski hopkinsj@ida.net Pushmataha County, OK Coordinator web site at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~okpushma/index.html My personal family web site at: http://www.maxpages.com/mygenroots 'Last Will and Testament: Being of sound mind, I spent all my money.' (Just on research) ----- Original Message ----- From: Diane Singleton <tincie@usit.net> To: <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Indian Roots > At 03:13 PM 6/7/99 EDT, you wrote: > >Jim, > > Your attitude matches that of the type of people that made my Grandparents > >ashamed to be "Breeds" > > If your so down on people who rejoice in our diversity why are you on this > >list? > >Gregg > > > >Jim, I am new to this list and am very surprised that there are people > like you still around in the 90's. What's your point? Are you Native > American and one of those people who resent "white wannabe's"? I ran upon > some of those people on another site not long ago. One of those sites who > ridiculed "twinkies" > (whites). And I, obviously, left the group in search of another site where > I could research and learn without having to deal with prejudice and > ignorance from either side. > I don't think I have a drop of NA blood in me and I don't have an opinion > about that one way or the other. I am just researching my (and my > husband's) heritage because I want to know who our ancestors were...where > they came from, etc because I love history mainly. Any kind of history. I > am curious about our ancestors, no matter who or what they were, because > that makes up our history. I have no control whatsoever over what my > ancestors did or who they were. Do you? Do you have any control over what > happened 200 years ago that caused you to be what you are today? It's > history. Plain and simple. > My ancestors were Irish, English, Dutch, German, French, and a bunch of > "anybody's guess" thrown in. > My husband's ancestors are not so easy to trace. The ONLY reason I look on > lists like Melungeon & Native American is because I haven't been able to > get anywhere on the other lists. What makes these lists any different than > the Irish, English, etc? Why do you pick this particular heritage to > question people concerning their interest? Sounds to me like you have some > serious issues that you are trying to transfer to the rest of the people on > this list. > I'm sorry that I felt I had to respond to your post, especially being new > here myself, but I was under the impression that these lists were open to > anyone who felt the need to research. I really hope the other lists I have > signed up for don't try to make me feel like I have to explain why I am > there. > Diane Yarbro Singleton >

Welp, we've sure beat this to death. Its doubtful that anyone's mind has been changed one way or the other, so why don't we just move on. Paul -----Original Message----- From: Diane Singleton <tincie@usit.net> To: Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Monday, June 07, 1999 8:39 PM Subject: Re: Indian Roots |At 03:13 PM 6/7/99 EDT, you wrote: |>Jim, |> Your attitude matches that of the type of people that made my Grandparents |>ashamed to be "Breeds" |> If your so down on people who rejoice in our diversity why are you on this |>list? |>Gregg |> |>Jim, I am new to this list and am very surprised that there are people |like you still around in the 90's. What's your point? Are you Native |American and one of those people who resent "white wannabe's"? I ran upon |some of those people on another site not long ago. One of those sites who |ridiculed "twinkies" |(whites). And I, obviously, left the group in search of another site where |I could research and learn without having to deal with prejudice and |ignorance from either side. |I don't think I have a drop of NA blood in me and I don't have an opinion |about that one way or the other. I am just researching my (and my |husband's) heritage because I want to know who our ancestors were...where |they came from, etc because I love history mainly. Any kind of history. I |am curious about our ancestors, no matter who or what they were, because |that makes up our history. I have no control whatsoever over what my |ancestors did or who they were. Do you? Do you have any control over what |happened 200 years ago that caused you to be what you are today? It's |history. Plain and simple. |My ancestors were Irish, English, Dutch, German, French, and a bunch of |"anybody's guess" thrown in. |My husband's ancestors are not so easy to trace. The ONLY reason I look on |lists like Melungeon & Native American is because I haven't been able to |get anywhere on the other lists. What makes these lists any different than |the Irish, English, etc? Why do you pick this particular heritage to |question people concerning their interest? Sounds to me like you have some |serious issues that you are trying to transfer to the rest of the people on |this list. |I'm sorry that I felt I had to respond to your post, especially being new |here myself, but I was under the impression that these lists were open to |anyone who felt the need to research. I really hope the other lists I have |signed up for don't try to make me feel like I have to explain why I am |there. |Diane Yarbro Singleton |

At 03:13 PM 6/7/99 EDT, you wrote: >Jim, > Your attitude matches that of the type of people that made my Grandparents >ashamed to be "Breeds" > If your so down on people who rejoice in our diversity why are you on this >list? >Gregg > >Jim, I am new to this list and am very surprised that there are people like you still around in the 90's. What's your point? Are you Native American and one of those people who resent "white wannabe's"? I ran upon some of those people on another site not long ago. One of those sites who ridiculed "twinkies" (whites). And I, obviously, left the group in search of another site where I could research and learn without having to deal with prejudice and ignorance from either side. I don't think I have a drop of NA blood in me and I don't have an opinion about that one way or the other. I am just researching my (and my husband's) heritage because I want to know who our ancestors were...where they came from, etc because I love history mainly. Any kind of history. I am curious about our ancestors, no matter who or what they were, because that makes up our history. I have no control whatsoever over what my ancestors did or who they were. Do you? Do you have any control over what happened 200 years ago that caused you to be what you are today? It's history. Plain and simple. My ancestors were Irish, English, Dutch, German, French, and a bunch of "anybody's guess" thrown in. My husband's ancestors are not so easy to trace. The ONLY reason I look on lists like Melungeon & Native American is because I haven't been able to get anywhere on the other lists. What makes these lists any different than the Irish, English, etc? Why do you pick this particular heritage to question people concerning their interest? Sounds to me like you have some serious issues that you are trying to transfer to the rest of the people on this list. I'm sorry that I felt I had to respond to your post, especially being new here myself, but I was under the impression that these lists were open to anyone who felt the need to research. I really hope the other lists I have signed up for don't try to make me feel like I have to explain why I am there. Diane Yarbro Singleton