OK.. I have kept quiet so far, but finally felt I had to step up and be counted! There were a few uncalled for remarks a few days ago which caused some of those having Native American ancestry to take offense. That was truly unfortunate. Everyone should try to be sensitive to the feelings of others no matter their background. This had an overall poisitive effect, IMHO. Discussions of Native American genealogy has more than tripled! But I cannot comprehend <<at all>> how there are those who have joined a list aimed at genealogy and that is called "Indian Territory" can think discussions of native american traits that might appear in one's family is <<not>> connected to genealogy and further is <<not>> related to "Indian Territory". If this kind of discussion is truly not related to trying to find one's ancestors who might have been native americans in Indian Territory... then I simply don't know what "Indian Territory" genealogy is!! I don't mean to step on any specific person's toes.. Just expressing my absolute astonishment at some of the opinions I am hearing!! .......................... Phil (pknox@earthlink.net) For Ruch/Rugh Family Genealogy, great links, & just plain fun... visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~pknox/

In a letter written August 1, 1892 to Nelson Case, president of the Labette County KS historical society, Dr. George Lisle said: <<....thence he (a fellow named Wilfred Cox) had come down to Osage Mission with some stockmen, and from there in one way and other got down to Ambrose McGhee's place near where Chetopa now stands. This was sometime probably in 1847 or 48. Ambrose McGhee, during the period from 1855 to 61 [Ambrose's son, Thomas Jefferson McGhee, says Ambrose died 1860], was registered on the Government Rolls as Blacksmith for the Quapaws, and at times for the Osages. He also owned a farm a mile or so southeast of the present site of Chetopa where the old Shawnee cattle trail joined the Texas cattle trail after it crossed the Neosho at Rocky Ford on the present State line.>> Ambrose McGhee was a white man married to Judith Cochran, a full blood Cherokee. Does anyone have any idea what "Government Rolls" Dr. Lisle is talking about here? Thanking you in advance!

Jerri, I want to thank you for posting the message about the virus. Coming from the list owner makes it a legitimate one to me and I appreciate your warning. Obviously, we are all on E-mail and therefore susceptible(sp?) to these worms and viruses. I am not averse to any discussion on this list which remotely helps any of us find our roots. Some may be more knowledgeable than others regarding racial characteristics, so please let others of us learn from you. I suspect that my own ancestry is so mixed that no one trait could be traced in this way unless someone were to find that being fat meant we were German ;-) that's a joke... Happy Hunting, y'all! Bebe ting, y'all! Bebe

The marriage license for Richard R WOOD and Mrs Sarah Alexander was dated Oct 8, 1879 said they were married in Chicksaw, IT. Would this be McAlister? This was found as a part of Richard Wood's Application for Choctaw citizenship in the Dawes Roll, 1896. At that time they lived in Boggy Depot, IT. There was also an affadavid from Sarah's sister, Mary MAURER who said her family also lived in Boggy Depot. When did Boggy Depot become a State Park and everybody had to move? One daughter of Richard and Sarah Wood was born in 1889, Mary Ann Elizabeth WOOD, who married South WARD in Grady Co, OK in 1910 I am looking for Descendants of this family and am particarilly interested in info about Richard R Wood. Mary Wood Ward lived and died in Ada, OK around 1970(?). Any info is appreciated. Nell Nicholson

Have been on the list for the past six months, and I personally appreciate the job all the list owner's do. It's an unthankful job most of the time. Thanks, Jerri, for giving me the tip about the McAlester (IT) being the only place white people could get married. It has helped me alot. Carolyn rolyn

HOW MANY OKIE MEN DOES IT TAKE TO CLEAN THE TABLE OFF AFTER DINNER????? REB

My great - grandmother told my mother that when she was a young woman, prior to her second marriage she was known as a Grass Widow. Does anyone know what this refers to? I saw the second True Grit Movie the other night and John Wayne's Character says that he married a grass widow from Missouri. It seems this is an older phrase, but does anyone have a clue? My gg was said to be part Indian(as so many were) her first husband a Douglas Smith was said to be from a family of means that had property in Ardmore and also in Denver, CO. I have found no record of marriage or divorce yet and do not know if she was actually widowed. On my grandfathers bc she does list him as her husband residing in Denver. Knowing what this phrase means may help me tremendously. tia, Cheryl in Houston

>If any of you have more "List-Owner bashing" to do, then send it to me >PRIVATELY, and let the rest of the people continue with their >genealogical research. >jc My apologies to Jerri and the list members for sending my last posting on this subject. It was sent before I received this message. Jim Granger

>information is critical." etc, etc. >and someone feels this pertains to genealogy and physical traits don't >matter...my, my. These two postings are not inconsistent. Both messages have as their purpose the preservation of the list. Most mailing lists prohibit virus messages except by the list owner, because most of them are hoaxes and waste everyone's time. But when there is a real virus, as in this case, it is the list owner's responsibility to inform the list members so the list and its members will not become infected with the virus. The discussion that we have had on Cherokee body parts is, from a genealogist's point of view, a waste of time, because there is NO stereotypical Cherokee Indian. Whatever physical characteristic you have that compels you to believe you are Cherokee, you can go to any busy street corner and quickly gather any number of people sharing that characteristic, not of whom are Cherokee. You can also find any number of Cherokees who do not share that trait. You only have to go to any Cherokee history book to find pictures that prove that some Cherokees have all kinds of body hair while others are clean shaven. So a discussion like this may be interesting to some (not to me), but it will not get you one bit closer to finding your ancestors, nor will it assist you in understanding the Indian Territory. Since this is a genealogy list, and this subject is clearly off-topic, Jerri was merely doing what most of us wanted to do two days ago when she cut off this thread. She acted to preserve the list. If you want to discuss that kind of thing, there is an excellent mailing list where you may do so. Just click on CHEROKEE-L-request@rootsweb.com to join. That list was formed specifically because genealogists got sick and tired of having to wade through this kind of material. . . . . . . But you aren't going to find any ancestors there. Jim Granger

For GCS2PKJ@aol.com Those of us who have been on the list for a while, those of us who know and respect the knowledge and dedication and helpful spirit of our listowner...know her name very well. Goodbye, Grow up, Get Serious, Come back.

Good luck to everyone searching their Indian Territory Roots! Diane (Hendricks) Parish desc. of William Rufus Green & Margaret Frances Blackburn of Southwest Oklahoma...

If any of you have more "List-Owner bashing" to do, then send it to me PRIVATELY, and let the rest of the people continue with their genealogical research. jc

> "This is an official announcement from the U.S. Department of Energy > concerning the new virus. It's rather long, but I feel that the > information is critical." etc, etc. I don't usually put my two cents worth into these types of conflicts. I really feel that these messages are valuable and I appreciate getting them. I also found the facial hair subject valuable. I never see pictures of Native Americans with facial hair, so I have wondered if they were prone to much and how they shaved it off if they did. When I get all the information I want on a subject, I just hit my "next" button..... I enjoy this list and am researching Copeland, Blythe, Bean, and Jenkins. Becky

IHMO Flexibility is the key to running a good mail list. Everyone has a delete key on their keyboard. Jacque ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerri (Rogers) Chasteen <jerri@cherokee.net> To: <Indian-Territory-Roots-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 11, 1999 9:42 PM Subject: ENOUGH ON BODY PARTS! > ENOUGH ON THIS SUBJECT! > > Medical, genetics and discussions of other fairy tales should be done on their proper mail lists-- and this isn't one of them! > > In case some of you have forgotten, this is a g-e-n-e-a-l-o-g-i-c-a-l mail list. > > > >

ok...so what is the objection to posting physical traits? i bid you peace @~~~~~<~~~~~~<~~~~~~~~

"If only the list owner is allowed to post off topic messages, perhaps that should be listed in the welcoming letter. Personally I felt that physical characteristics were more pertinent to "the study of ancestry" than computer viruses". Lela, Lorna and any others who questioned this posting: In my Welcome message I asked that no one post "virus warnings" to the list, but that if there was a REAL danger, then I would post the official warning from the Dept of Energy-- which is exactly what I did! If this warning saves only ONE person from losing all of their genealogical data, then it will be well worth ANY of the harsh words that are directed to me! jc List Owner.

I'm interested in this subject also. My 2nd great grandmother, Emma Inez Boudinot b. abt. 1856 and married about 1870-1873 was married to a white man. His name was William Alexander Allen. He was a doctor. Helen

"This is an official announcement from the U.S. Department of Energy concerning the new virus. It's rather long, but I feel that the information is critical." etc, etc. and someone feels this pertains to genealogy and physical traits don't matter...my, my. becky m i bid you peace @~~~~~<~~~~~~<~~~~~~~~

What's this about McAlester? This could be very helpful... Could you share the details with the list? I thought whites had to be married in Ft. Smith. Does this apply to interracial marriages as well? Thanks!

Then I HEREBY UNSUBSCRIBE TO THIS LIST!! By the way, all the other list owners of the lists I subscribe to, have names. In a message dated 6/11/99 9:48:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jerri@cherokee.net writes: << ENOUGH ON THIS SUBJECT! Medical, genetics and discussions of other fairy tales should be done on their proper mail lists-- and this isn't one of them! In case some of you have forgotten, this is a g-e-n-e-a-l-o-g-i-c-a-l mail list. >>