Sue Ivie asked: "what if you're ancestors lived in Vian, IT in the late 1890's and 1900's but were not native americans. I couldn't find a census for 1900 for IT. <snip> If that census is listed by Nations, how would I find them" ~~~~~~~~~~~ Sue- Di asked me to respond to you message. The 1900 Indian Territory census lists everyone- no matter what their race. Actually, the non-Indians were (by FAR) the majority of the population by then. There are 10 rolls of film in the 1900 Indian Territory series- starting with roll T623-1843 and ending with T623-1853. You can rent these on microfilm through any public or LDS library in the U.S. - cost; about $3.75. First- lets take the "how would I find them" question: If you don't know how to use the census or what Soundex is, then you are missing THE number #1 genealogical resource. Go to http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson9.htm and learn how! To check your coding of the surname, go to http://searches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/Genea/soundex.sh. Next, order the Soundex film using the codes shown in the lesson 9. Once you locate and identify the family on the Soundex microfilm, carefully note the Nation, and the information in the upper right corner of the Soundex card: "ED Number"; "Page", "line" ("ED"= "Enumeration District"), or (better still) photocopy the card from the film. Then check the library's film catalog for a description of each roll of the census film. Each roll has a listing as to what Nations and "ED" numbers the rolls contains. If you don't understand this- the librarian will help you. jc

In a message dated 12/2/00 5:03:54 AM Central Standard Time, [email protected], Di wrote: > Since you have her parents names from the SS application, you might want to > try to find them on the 1900 US census of Indian Territory. There is a > Soundex available, and its a good thing! The counties were not yet formed, > and Indian Territory was listed by Nations. > > Di, what if you're ancestors lived in Vian, IT in the late 1890's and 1900's but were not native americans, at least if they were, I don't know about it? I couldn't find a census for 1900 for IT. I guess I didn't look it up correctly or something. I wrote to the Sequoyah County Genealogical Society in Sallisaw some time ago, but haven't heard from them yet, to see if they could find some information on these members of my family. Would settlers from Missouri possibly be on that same census even if they were not of Indian blood? And if so, and that census is listed by Nations, how would I be able to find them? My greatgrandmother's sister, Elizabeth Downing Young and her husband, William F. Young moved to Vian in 1898, their 4 children were born in Missouri before they went to Vian. William lived there previously and may have been of Indian descent, but we have no definite information on that. Elizabeth died there about 1901. Thanks so much for the information. Sue Ivie

Am searching for any information regarding the Commadore Perry Smith family that pioneered and helped to found the little town of Caney before 1900; then in Choctaw nation territory. Would appreciate any help. Jan

Caddo Co. OK has a site at [email protected] There is also an Indian Museum in Anadarko, OK, which is in Caddo Co. I am sure both would help you. I almost forgot, there was a Harry Donellon that worked the railroads there at that time, as did his son later. Harry's sister-in-law's sister is still living in AZ. If you get no response, let me know. Nila ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon A Bohan" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:01 PM Subject: [IT ROOTS] Caddo, IT, OK - Birth Records > With a silent prayer, I am hoping that someone on this list can help me locate a birth record on my great aunt. Until today, I had always thought that she was born in Quanah, Texas. After a three plus month wait, I received a copy of her social security application and she was born in Caddo, IT. Her name was Emma Josephine CARTER; she was born on 29Sep1903. > > She died on July 14, 2000. She was my second mother and my mentor. I miss her terribly and only hope that someone can help me find out more about her. She hardly talked about the family. Her mother died when she was 5 and her dad was a railroad man. The family was supposedly part Cherokee (she was born to Oliver Reynolds CARTER and Frances Simmons CARTER). The family never talked about the Cherokee ancestry and unfortunately, I was not into genealogy until recently. > > Many thanks for taking the time to read this. > > Sharon > > ______________________________

My own first birth certificate for 1927 first read born in Caddo Co. and the later copies say I was born in Canadian Co. Don't expect much accuracy, either, for then. My sister born in 1921 sent for her birth certificate in high school and it gave her name as Oleta Isabell, instead of Cornelia Elizabeth. The folks said it was a stormy night when the doctor phoned it in. She had it changed, but my brother born in 1919 never had his changed. Caddo Co. has a web page off of the OK Gen. page. Nila ----- Original Message ----- From: "Di Tauchee" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 8:11 PM Subject: [IT ROOTS] Re: Caddo, IT Birth Records > Sharon said: A Bohan wrote: " -- a birth record on my great aunt. I received a copy of her social security application and she was born in Caddo, IT. Her name was Emma Josephine CARTER; she was born on 29 Sep1903." > > Unless she found a need for one in later life and filed for a "Delayed Birth Certificate", then she would not have one. Oklahoma did not become a state until 1907 and really didn't much enforce the registration of births until about 1915. The applications to search and order a birth certificate are accessible from the OK USGenWeb site at http://www.rootsweb.com/~okgenweb/ --- click on "Vital Records". > > Since you have her parents names from the SS application, you might want to try to find them on the 1900 US census of Indian Territory. There is a Soundex available, and its a good thing! The counties were not yet formed, and Indian Territory was listed by Nations. > > Di > > ______________________________

Attn: John C. King and List, I thought this might be helpful to you. <A HREF="http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/okmap.htm">Click here: Oklahoma GenWeb Clickable Map</A> or http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/okmap.htm

Henry Mitchell COLE, son of John Cole and Letitia Bell Brown; b. 28 Nov 1905, Pryor, Oklahoma; d. 1969; married Dorothy PERSELLE. Children of Henry and Dorothy are: Sue Cole; married Frank HARRISON; children are: Tracy, Carol and Dana Mitchell Cole, Jr; b. 1926 I have NOT been able to get any further than this. Hope someone can help. Thanks, Vickie Vickie and Leo Bauer [email protected]

Still trying to find any information on the following family: Clem COLE, son of Daniel Boone Cole and Nannie Vann; b. 1888 in I.T. Oklahoma; d. 1977, UNKNOWN; married Mary HAMPTON; b. 1896; d. 1983. Their child: Daniel Boone COLE; b. 1916; married (1) Allene HAULE and (2) Sharon ?; Children of Daniel and Allene are: Martha, Betty and Sally Child of Daniel and Sharon is: Boone Cole Thats all the information I have. Maybe it will sound familiar to someone. Thanks, Vickie Vickie and Leo Bauer [email protected]

My Grandmother was born in Okla Indian Territory March 10, 1901. I have her birth records. I think to get a SS number you have to have proof of birth, even if its just from a family Bible. The papers say on the top: Department of the Interior Commision of the Five Civilized Tribes Affidavit of Mother. then it lists my GGrandmother and GGrandfather as her parents and where she was born. I believe you have to have this to be enrolled in the the tribe. If you send for the packet of this person if they are enrolled and listed on the Dawes rolls this info will be in the packet. Mine is in the Choctaw rolls. I hope I have been of some help to someone on the list. This info was sent to me by someone who was researching my family name so I can't tell you how it was recieved. On the papers it also has a affidavit of attending Physician or Midwife and also gives the District that the birth took place. It is called a birth Affidavit instead of a birth certificate. Regards, Linda Kirby Branum Researching: Guynes,Odgen, Henderson, Kirby, Branum ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 2:10 AM Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] Dawes Roll Details > I was told that on the nara.NAILS site you can order a set of paperwork > for anyone on the Dawes Rolls. The cost is twenty dollars and im told > you do get a very hefty and valuable amount of information. Am told it > is very worth every penny! > Mvto, > Ken > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] >

Clara Bell wrote: "I am looking for the birthplace of my ggrandmother, Parmelia Tennessee Bricker Cox. Her mother was Eliza Sophia Thurman and her father was John David Bricker" Clara- In order to help you, we need some idea of when she and/or her parents were born- (1820, 1850, 1920, etc). Have you found her listed anywhere on the U.S. census? No matter what her race is suppose to be, the census is still the number one genealogical resource. If you don't know about or how to use the Soundex ("index" by the sound of the name), there are several places on the web that will explain it. Best Di

> I was told that on the nara.NAILS site you can order a set of paperwork > for anyone on the Dawes Rolls. The cost is twenty dollars and im told > you do get a very hefty and valuable amount of information. Am told it > is very worth every penny! > Mvto, > Ken You do most definitely want to order the entire application packet from Ft. Worth. You need the Census Card #/Field Card # and that will get you the information for all of the people on that card. It may be one person or an entire family. The cost is $10 and then some extra per page if over 20 pages. It will contain a transcript of the interview, plus birth/marriage "certificates". My packets for about five familes was over an inch thick. You'll most probably learn many valuable things, but some interesting items, e.g. I learned that gr-gr-grandmother Catharine KING only spoke Shawnee so she signed her name with an "X". Remember that the NAILS Dawes information is very incomplete, so you would want to look at a better index to find people. John C. King www.shawnee.accessgenealogy.com

Looking for my ancestor from North Carolina, his name was Greefy King, approx. time early 1800's. Do not know anything about his wife nor children with exception of his daughter that was my g--grandmother and her name was Elizabeth King who married Morris Vann of Tn. Agaliha99

I am looking for the birthplace of my ggrandmother, Parmelia Tennessee Bricker Cox. I was told by my mother that she was part Cherokee but was not registered on the Dawes roll. Her mother was Eliza Sophia Thurman and her father was John David Bricker. Some believe she was born in TX but we have not found any information there. Her mother was born in TN and her father in PA. Any information will be appreciated.

I was told that on the nara.NAILS site you can order a set of paperwork for anyone on the Dawes Rolls. The cost is twenty dollars and im told you do get a very hefty and valuable amount of information. Am told it is very worth every penny! Mvto, Ken

I know the Vinita Public Library is a good source for info in this district. Check the Craig County, OK list. They are very helpful!! Deb

Karen, >(I also have a small amount of > information available through the "NAIL Expert Form" internet service, but do > not have the complete documentation for him.) The NAIL database is very limited. It doesn't have a majority of the Dawes records. > What additional information is available for those on the Dawes Rolls (as > part of the Dawes Census project--i.e., documentation gathered by the U.S. > government). For example, I am aware that through the National Archives, > there is a complete transcript of census-type interviews for all individuals > on the Dawes Roll, but I do not have a list of the questions asked. Would > anyone familiar with details of the Dawes Commission Act--and all types of > census information documented as a result of this Act--have this information? I'm waiting on a history book about the Dawes Commission. It may help you. It is "The Dawes Commission and the Allotment of the Five Civilized Tribes, 1893-1914" by Kent Carter. The Amazon.com URL is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/091648985X/qid=975731624/sr=1-6/103-1 063491-7741402. Thanks to Fritz for posting the "Hello, is anyone out there" message. This list is starting to go now! John C. King www.shawnee.accessgenealogy.com

I thought I would post my reply to Karen FYI to the list: > Karen, > > I found this book online for you, "Delaware Trails: Some Tribal Records, > 1842-1907" by Fay Louise Smith Arellano, scr. From the description it looks > exactly what you want. Here is the URL: > > http://www.genealogybookshop.com/genealogybookshop/files/General,Native_Amer > ican_Indian/9032.html > > I'm researching the Shawnee and have run across some Delaware records. Some > early Ohio records and some in Indian Territory. Let me know if you'd like > me find those at the library. > > John C. King > www.shawnee.accessgenealogy.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 7:32 PM > Subject: [IT ROOTS] John C. Robinson > > > > Hello. I am a fairly new subscriber. I appreciate the services you are > > providing. > > For quite some time, I have been trying to gather more information about > my > > Delaware ancestry on my mother's side, as well as potential Cherokee > ancestry > > on my father's side. > > > > 1. We know that we have Delaware ancestry through my g, g grandfather (and > > possibly his wife). There were many descendants from this family, and we > all > > have this information, as well as photographs and general family > information. > > To my knowledge, no ancestors moved to Indian Territory (on the Delaware > > side) and thus were not included on the Dawes Roll. Are there any other > > sources I could consult to try to document this Delaware ancestry? I know > > several of the locations where they (and their parents) lived, including > (in > > reverse chronological order) norther Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New > > Jersey, and North Carolina. My g,g grandfather's name was Albert Lambert > (b. > > 1815). His wife was Elizabeth Edgerton. His father was Albert Lambert > (b. > > 1787), who was married to Sarah Stiers. Albert Lambert (the father) was > > married to Winnifred Cartwright. > > > > If you have any information or suggestions of where to search for > > information, please let me know. > > > > 2. My father's mother lived around the Fairland area of Indian Territory. > > She told us she was part Indian. I do not know for sure which tribe, or > > tribes. Her father's name was John C. Robinson. There is a John C. > Robinson > > on the Dawes Roll. How can I find out if this was her father? > > > > Thank you very much for your assistance. > > Karen Seals > > > > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > > For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > > To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] >

Hello, I thought I posted this to the list, but sent it to Elizabeth alone. On the CherokeeGene list if you reply it automatically goes to the entire list, do we want this on this IT list? It is helpful to have it set up that way. That way you see all the correspondence going back and forth and you can jump in when you can help. Even if you don't think you are interested in a topic you can always file it in your head for "future reference" and learn along the way. Since this site doesn't have much traffic, could we set it up that way? Jerri? Here it is! > > One thing IT related I would like to find is a good IT map showing section > > line detail. The map in Starr's "History of the Cherokee" is perfect > > _except_ (major problem for me) the boundaries between districts are very > > crudely drawn. My ancestors lived right and left of the > > Cooweescoowee/Delaware Distr. border and on that map you can't tell where > > one starts and the other begins. Also the border between Tahlequah and > > Illinois is missing. Anyone know of a better map? > > > > John C. King > > www.shawnee.accessgenealogy.com

Hello. I am trying to locate some background information regarding a "John C. Robinson" who is on the Dawes Roll, to see if he was my great grandfather (who also was of the same name and who lived in Indian Territory at the turn of the century). I have researched this somewhat and know his tribal enrollment is listed on the Dawes Roll as being 1880 (Canadian District). The Dawes Roll information states that he was married at the time to Myrtle Moreland, and had a son, Joseph. He is listed as being 33 years old. Is this age the age of his tribal enrollment in 1880, which was referred to on the Dawes Roll, or the age he was when the Dawes census was taken? Is there additional background information for those on the Dawes rolls? (I also have a small amount of information available through the "NAIL Expert Form" internet service, but do not have the complete documentation for him.) What additional information is available for those on the Dawes Rolls (as part of the Dawes Census project--i.e., documentation gathered by the U.S. government). For example, I am aware that through the National Archives, there is a complete transcript of census-type interviews for all individuals on the Dawes Roll, but I do not have a list of the questions asked. Would anyone familiar with details of the Dawes Commission Act--and all types of census information documented as a result of this Act--have this information? Thank you so much for any information you can provide. Sincerely, Dr. Karen Seals (Karen)

Hello. I am a fairly new subscriber. I appreciate the services you are providing. For quite some time, I have been trying to gather more information about my Delaware ancestry on my mother's side, as well as potential Cherokee ancestry on my father's side. 1. We know that we have Delaware ancestry through my g, g grandfather (and possibly his wife). There were many descendants from this family, and we all have this information, as well as photographs and general family information. To my knowledge, no ancestors moved to Indian Territory (on the Delaware side) and thus were not included on the Dawes Roll. Are there any other sources I could consult to try to document this Delaware ancestry? I know several of the locations where they (and their parents) lived, including (in reverse chronological order) norther Missouri, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and North Carolina. My g,g grandfather's name was Albert Lambert (b. 1815). His wife was Elizabeth Edgerton. His father was Albert Lambert (b. 1787), who was married to Sarah Stiers. Albert Lambert (the father) was married to Winnifred Cartwright. If you have any information or suggestions of where to search for information, please let me know. 2. My father's mother lived around the Fairland area of Indian Territory. She told us she was part Indian. I do not know for sure which tribe, or tribes. Her father's name was John C. Robinson. There is a John C. Robinson on the Dawes Roll. How can I find out if this was her father? Thank you very much for your assistance. Karen Seals