Greetings. For all the new folks who might have some info: I am researching IT ancestors with surnames: Bennett, Mullins, Florence, Hopkins, Blalock, Blackwell, and others. Lived in Poteau and other areas in eastern IT from 1880's. My direct ancestor, Thomas Leander Florence, lived with his aunt and uncle, William and Sereptha (Lula) Hopkins. Most of the Hopkins ancestors are buried in Eufaula Cemetery. Any info on my grandfather or the Hopkins folks appreciated. Susan ============================================================================= Susan Werstein Phone: (03) 467-5632 Country code: 64 8 Lothian St. Dunedin, New Zealand E-Mail: [email protected] =============================================================================

Dear Yellow, Please don't let your proven pedigree make you impatient with a "wannabe twinky my grandmother was a.... princess" folks. As a child raised in the 20th century instead of earlier, my family took incredible pride in their greatgrandmother's stories. It was a hidden NA connection back then -- only the family knew -- and today, because of that hiddenness, still only the family KNOWS. We are NOT wannabee's -- I'll never deny my ancestors' proud heritage. But, unlike her and her's, I don't live in a time of certain physically dangerous consequences. I don't know if I would have hidden it or not. Many, many did. Many brave people did not. Some had no choice. But, I'm no twinky wannabe. I know my ancestry, even if not on a pedigree list. Please, Yellow, take pride in your heritage, but allow me and others like me to take pride as well. We don't want to be who we're not! We only want to be appreciated for who we are. Peace, Susan >Ok all, >It is time to put an end to all this DNA hoopla. Indians -no - we are >Native Americans/First Nations People. We are the only ones who have to >prove our heritage. We have to provide a 2 foot long pedigree like a common >registered Dog. This Dog has her registered pedigree, woof woof bark bark!! >Go ahead and take your DNA if you want to, it will only help weed out the >wannabe twinky my grandmother was a Cherokee Princess people. >UUUUGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! I get so sick of that story. Lets get back to genealogy >what this list was made for. DNA is a medical subject, the door to that >list is around the corner. Had my say and now I'm going back to researching >for people! > >Yellow > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > >==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== >For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on >http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html >To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] ============================================================================= Susan Werstein Phone: (03) 467-5632 Country code: 64 8 Lothian St. Dunedin, New Zealand E-Mail: [email protected] ============================================================================= ��

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Thanks for expressing your feelings. David's maternal gg parents settled in what is now Craig co. His gm was b near BlueJacket, OK. They are listed in Cherokee Territory. Both were fr KY. Occupation: raised horses or farmed. Carole Beth ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 7:19 AM Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] "GENEALOGY, ONLY-- PLEASE" > I haven't a clue as to whether I have Indian blood or not......& am interested in researching my family. I thought this list was for people who were tracing their roots through a PLACE named Indian Territory (now a part of Oklahoma) & not necessarily for "NDN" people. I am feeling like I signed up on the wrong list since my WHITE ancestors settled her & my grandfather worked for people in Texas as a cowboy and helped them to take their cattle to market in Kansas through Indian Territory & when he married, he and his wife "settled" there....if you call living in a covered wagon & never owning any property settling. > Please!!! > LaDonna HInch, > Grew up in Oklahoma & am proud of it!!! > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > >

I haven't a clue as to whether I have Indian blood or not......& am interested in researching my family. I thought this list was for people who were tracing their roots through a PLACE named Indian Territory (now a part of Oklahoma) & not necessarily for "NDN" people. I am feeling like I signed up on the wrong list since my WHITE ancestors settled her & my grandfather worked for people in Texas as a cowboy and helped them to take their cattle to market in Kansas through Indian Territory & when he married, he and his wife "settled" there....if you call living in a covered wagon & never owning any property settling. Please!!! LaDonna HInch, Grew up in Oklahoma & am proud of it!!!

I have my pedigree also but I still can only trace my Native American ancestry back to the Creeks in Alabama in 1832. >From: Susan Werstein <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] wannabee's >Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:08:01 +1300 > >Dear Yellow, > >Please don't let your proven pedigree make you impatient with a "wannabe >twinky my grandmother was a.... princess" folks. As a child raised in the >20th century instead of earlier, my family took incredible pride in their >greatgrandmother's stories. It was a hidden NA connection back then -- >only the family knew -- and today, because of that hiddenness, still only >the family KNOWS. We are NOT wannabee's -- I'll never deny my ancestors' >proud heritage. But, unlike her and her's, I don't live in a time of >certain physically dangerous consequences. I don't know if I would have >hidden it or not. Many, many did. Many brave people did not. Some had no >choice. But, I'm no twinky wannabe. I know my ancestry, even if not on a >pedigree list. > >Please, Yellow, take pride in your heritage, but allow me and others like >me to take pride as well. We don't want to be who we're not! We only >want to be appreciated for who we are. > >Peace, Susan > > >Ok all, > >It is time to put an end to all this DNA hoopla. Indians -no - we are > >Native Americans/First Nations People. We are the only ones who have to > >prove our heritage. We have to provide a 2 foot long pedigree like a >common > >registered Dog. This Dog has her registered pedigree, woof woof bark >bark!! > >Go ahead and take your DNA if you want to, it will only help weed out the > >wannabe twinky my grandmother was a Cherokee Princess people. > >UUUUGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! I get so sick of that story. Lets get back to >genealogy > >what this list was made for. DNA is a medical subject, the door to that > >list is around the corner. Had my say and now I'm going back to >researching > >for people! > > > >Yellow > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > >==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > >For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > >To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > > > >============================================================================= >Susan Werstein Phone: (03) 467-5632 Country code: 64 >8 Lothian St. >Dunedin, New Zealand E-Mail: [email protected] >============================================================================= ¡À > > > >==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== >For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on >http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html >To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Hi all, The picture that I offered for free is of the Standing Turkey that was also known as Oconostota and Cunne Shota. I understand that there were more than one person that used the name Standing Turkey. This picture is of an oil painting by Francis Parsons in London in1762. This painting is housed in the Gilcrease Museum in Tulsa, OK. Leo Cundiff

This person has invited everyone that wanted to continue this "Twinkie-Wantabee" thread to post to them directly at Yellow <[email protected]>. I would like to add my request to this, as this subject has no place on a genealogical mail list. Thank you for your consideration of the other list members. List Mistress

J E R R I - W H E R E A R E Y O U..........

I am looking for my great grandmother Martha Collins. She was born in 1873 and died in 1907. We do not know where she was born for sure,but family stories state she was born around Kentucky/Tennesse area and was one of three sisters. She married Jacob Teeple in Missouri and had three sons. I am at an impass and have not been able to find anything about her at all. Family stories indicate that she was Cherokee through the Lumbees of Virginia.

I am Cherokee and I know Cherokee history well. Yes I know some hid the blood and some didn't. Yes I know some are enrolled and some aren't. Instead of me giving a long story here I will just make it simple. A Twinkie wannabe is a person WHO Does not have any NDN blood in them what so ever, zilch, none, nada, but yet still try's to clam it. When your life is entwine in the ndn community then you will know the terms used to define people, and you will know who is laughed or scoffed at by other Native Nations not only just Cherokee. Know the Native fraises and term and definitions for things before you think you are one. If you need more talk on it then hit the reply and my email addy will be in the to field. I'm sure the other people who are researching genealogy only is kinda tired of non-genealogy postings of these such topics. SO feel free to email me privately. I go through 3,000 plus emails a day so it might take me a bit to reach your email if you so choose to email me privatly. Thank you, Yellow >From: "Brenda Foutch" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] wannabee's >Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:32:16 -0600 > >Amen, Susan. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Susan Werstein" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 7:08 PM >Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] wannabee's > > > > Dear Yellow, > > > > Please don't let your proven pedigree make you impatient with a "wannabe > > twinky my grandmother was a.... princess" folks. As a child raised in >the > > 20th century instead of earlier, my family took incredible pride in >their > > greatgrandmother's stories. It was a hidden NA connection back then -- > > only the family knew -- and today, because of that hiddenness, still >only > > the family KNOWS. We are NOT wannabee's -- I'll never deny my >ancestors' > > proud heritage. But, unlike her and her's, I don't live in a time of > > certain physically dangerous consequences. I don't know if I would have > > hidden it or not. Many, many did. Many brave people did not. Some had >no > > choice. But, I'm no twinky wannabe. I know my ancestry, even if not on >a > > pedigree list. > > > > Please, Yellow, take pride in your heritage, but allow me and others >like > > me to take pride as well. We don't want to be who we're not! We only > > want to be appreciated for who we are. > > > > Peace, Susan > > > > >Ok all, > > >It is time to put an end to all this DNA hoopla. Indians -no - we are > > >Native Americans/First Nations People. We are the only ones who have to > > >prove our heritage. We have to provide a 2 foot long pedigree like a >common > > >registered Dog. This Dog has her registered pedigree, woof woof bark >bark!! > > >Go ahead and take your DNA if you want to, it will only help weed out >the > > >wannabe twinky my grandmother was a Cherokee Princess people. > > >UUUUGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! I get so sick of that story. Lets get back to >genealogy > > >what this list was made for. DNA is a medical subject, the door to >that > > >list is around the corner. Had my say and now I'm going back to >researching > > >for people! > > > > > >Yellow > > > > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > >==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > > >For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click >on > > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > > >To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > > > > > > > > >============================================================================ >= > > Susan Werstein Phone: (03) 467-5632 Country code: >64 > > 8 Lothian St. > > Dunedin, New Zealand E-Mail: [email protected] > > >============================================================================ >=¡À > > > > > > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > > For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > > To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > > > > >==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== >For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on >http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html >To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Amen, Susan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Werstein" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [IT ROOTS] wannabee's > Dear Yellow, > > Please don't let your proven pedigree make you impatient with a "wannabe > twinky my grandmother was a.... princess" folks. As a child raised in the > 20th century instead of earlier, my family took incredible pride in their > greatgrandmother's stories. It was a hidden NA connection back then -- > only the family knew -- and today, because of that hiddenness, still only > the family KNOWS. We are NOT wannabee's -- I'll never deny my ancestors' > proud heritage. But, unlike her and her's, I don't live in a time of > certain physically dangerous consequences. I don't know if I would have > hidden it or not. Many, many did. Many brave people did not. Some had no > choice. But, I'm no twinky wannabe. I know my ancestry, even if not on a > pedigree list. > > Please, Yellow, take pride in your heritage, but allow me and others like > me to take pride as well. We don't want to be who we're not! We only > want to be appreciated for who we are. > > Peace, Susan > > >Ok all, > >It is time to put an end to all this DNA hoopla. Indians -no - we are > >Native Americans/First Nations People. We are the only ones who have to > >prove our heritage. We have to provide a 2 foot long pedigree like a common > >registered Dog. This Dog has her registered pedigree, woof woof bark bark!! > >Go ahead and take your DNA if you want to, it will only help weed out the > >wannabe twinky my grandmother was a Cherokee Princess people. > >UUUUGGGGGGGGGG!!!!! I get so sick of that story. Lets get back to genealogy > >what this list was made for. DNA is a medical subject, the door to that > >list is around the corner. Had my say and now I'm going back to researching > >for people! > > > >Yellow > > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > >==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > >For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > >http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > >To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] > > > > ============================================================================ = > Susan Werstein Phone: (03) 467-5632 Country code: 64 > 8 Lothian St. > Dunedin, New Zealand E-Mail: [email protected] > ============================================================================ =¡À > > > > ==== Indian-Territory-Roots Mailing List ==== > For full instructions to subscribe, unsubscribe and list rules, click on > http://www.rootsweb.com/~cherokee/welcome.html > To send an e-mail to the list owner: [email protected] >

Elizabeth wrote: "Jerri, what about the CD being sold by Heritage Qest of the 1880 Cherokee census? Have you seen it?" Elizabeth- I've seen it, I bought it, and I'm happy with it. But let me correct you on one thing: Heritage QUEST is not marketing it- Heritage BOOKS <http://www.heritagebooks.com> is. It's #1419 in their on-line catalog. To recap: those of you who have identified your Cherokee ancestors on the 1902/06 Dawes roll have (no doubt <g>) ordered and viewed the companion to that list- called the "census" or "field" card. If the application for enrollemnt was approved, the information was taken from the application form and entered on the field/census card. Then from there it went to the Dawes roll. As all of you know- one of the Dawes requirements was that the applicant have continuous and permanent residence in the Cherokee Nation as "by blood" citizens to qualify. Another requirement that you may not know was that they must be shown on specific earlier rolls- the primary one being the 1880 (the 1883 & 1896 were used for those who were not born until later). The field/census card shows which of the earlier rolls were used to establish their citizenship- and (usually) their parents listing. Those who have struggled with the several rolls of m/film of the unindexed 1880 rolls, or even those who had purchased the printed version (published in 1978) will appreciate this CD. It uses Acrobat Reader (ver 4.0 included), is searchable and printable. The greatest advantage that I can see in the CD version is a cross-reference from the 1880 listing to the 1902/06 census/field card numbers- and a notation if the person was dead at the time of the Dawes enrollment. You are often able to identify previously unknown siblings of your ancestor who are listed on the 1880 and by checking the census card numbers, see their families on the Dawes Roll and who the females of the family married. I'm very pleased with it-- and no, I'm not an employee of Heritagebooks.com, `cause they do not have a branch office in Pryor Oklahoma! :o) Jerri Chasteen

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I hope I got your name right ...was trying to reply and hit the delete by accident...oops! This is exciting that someone else here has relatives from Chetopa, KS. Our family lines from there were the Hudsons and Treeces. Gggrandfather Quarley Hudson (believe it or not, was Blackfeet...still looking into that one...hmmm), wife Eunice, daughter Georgiana, married a Treece. This is my bio family and I only have two obits from them. Most of them came from Texas but their location before 1840 is a mystery. When did you relatives go to Chetopa and were they from Texas...their Nation...etc.? Grandmother still lives in Coffeyville and is losing her memory so I don't have much to go on. I can't get to all my records right now because they're a jumbled mess but I did call a Fanny in Chetopa who gave me some long lists of obituaries - they were indexed and she could pull up any of them with the desired surnames. If you call the public library, the librarian will give you her number ....and they are VERY nice people who desire to help you. I followed a hunch and hit pay dirt! Contact me back often and maybe we will share info (use private e-mail [email protected]). Since I live 400 miles from there, it is not very often I get to go. <br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

Hello Everyone, If any of you are interested, I would like to invite you to come and chat with us: Native American Genealogy Chat Every Monday Chat Room #1 9:30pm Eastern (8:30 Central, 7:30 Mountain, 6:30 Pacific) http://genealogy.about.com/mpchat.htm This chat is hosted by Michelle Tucker-Chubenko and is open to anyone with an interest in NA genealogy. It doesn't require any special software either - just pick a user name and log in. If you are new to our chatroom you may want to check out the Beginner's Guide (linked from the chat page above) before stopping into chat. Hope to see you there! Kimberly Kimberly Powell Genealogy Guide About - The Human Internet http://genealogy.about.com

Hello, Roxanne. Wondering who your ggrandmother was, whether you have more information. My grx2grandfatherAmbrose McGHEE, and his brother Larkin McGHEE both had trading posts in the area of present day Chetopa KS, and I know Ambrose traded with the Osage. In a message dated 2/19/01 1:41:58 AM, [email protected] writes: << Does anyone have any info regarding teachers in Indian Territory around the turn of last century? Did one have to be an Indian/enrolled member to teach in IT? The area of interest would be S.E. Kansas as this is where my ggrandmother lived. It's a stone throw outside of Oklahoma's northeastern corner. That part of Kansas used to be an Osage trading post until 1880 or so. And just across the border is part of Osage Territory and some other Nations. Any suggestions on where I might get some info on that? Have searched but no luck so far... Roxanne Haileselassie >>

Does anyone have any info regarding teachers in Indian Territory around the turn of last century? Did one have to be an Indian/enrolled member to teach in IT? The area of interest would be S.E. Kansas as this is where my ggrandmother lived. It's a stone throw outside of Oklahoma's northeastern corner. That part of Kansas used to be an Osage trading post until 1880 or so. And just across the border is part of Osage Territory and some other Nations. Any suggestions on where I might get some info on that? Have searched but no luck so far... Roxanne Haileselassie<br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p>

I try so hard to set a good example-- and just as the message to the list and Linda on the Starr book went FLYING out to cyber-space, I remembered that I had not deleted the text of the earlier messages! <shame>. I'm sorry--- and apologize to all, but especially to the Digest subscribers. Jerri Chasteen

Linda asked (private e-mail): " I just received some genealogical information from someone and I am trying to authenticate it but on some of the notes he states that he got the information from Emmet Starr Vol. 3. Is there more than one volume of History of the Cherokee Indians from Mr. Starr or are these separate notes? <snip>" Linda- I think you mean "Old Cherokee Families- Notes of Dr. Emmet Starr", published in 1987 (three volumes) by Jack Baker and Keith Hampton. When Dr. Starr was gathering information for his "History of the Cherokee Indians" and the later books that he planned to write, he took notes of each interview, noting the relationship that the interviewee was giving him. Most were listed in Composition books (hard-cover, bound), but many- many more were written on grocery bills, hardware order forms-- anything that he could write on. After Starr's death, the Oklahoma Historical Society microfilmed these books and scraps of paper (POOR index) on 4 rolls of film: AMD-26, 27, 28 & 29 (may be ordered). Baker and Hampton transcribed some of these and published their three books based on his notes. Volume #1 is "Notes A-thru F", and Volume #2 is "Notes G- through L", plus the full-name index. These letters do NOT have one thing to do with the names of the families- they indicate the "number" (example: "A-234") of the notes. Volume #3 is an expanded account, in the Starr indexing format, of the Grant Family, taking it on down a number of generations. Hope this helps! jc linda paul wrote: > No,:~) but thats ok, I realize you are a very busy person. Are there more > Starr notes or additional books? > Linda > ------Original Message------ > From: Jerri Chasteen <[email protected]> > To: Linda Paul <[email protected]> > Sent: February 19, 2001 3:01:37 AM GMT > Subject: Re: Emmett Starr help > > Linda- I can't see where I ever responded to this! > <shame> Did I? > > jc > > Linda Paul wrote: > > > Jerri,Could I bother you for some information? I just received some > > geneological information from someone and I am trying to authenticate > > it but on some of the notes he states that he got the information from > > Emmet Starr Vol 3. Is there more than one volume of History of the > > Cherokee Indians from Mr. Starr or are these seperate notes? Where can > > I get a copy of them? I don't know much about any of the other Indian > > tribes but the Cherokee and I wanted to know if it was possible since > > Cherokee intermarried with whites if they also intermarried with other > > tribes. My ggggrandfather was Thomas Wolf who married Sarah Nix. I > > have not been able to find any information on Sarah. She doesn't seem > > to be on any of the rolls, or census. I came across a Sarah Nix on the > > LDS website that was born in 1830 in Choctaw, Alabama. Am I grasping > > at straws or could this be a legitimate lead. Where would I look?Thank > > you for any help you might be able to giveLinda > >