Hi Ken, Thanks for showing interest. At present my parents are with me in US. May be I will try to get u intouch with any one of these royalties for their photo collections. Regards, Raja -----Original Message----- From: Ken Robbins [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 3:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: [INDIA-ROYALTY] Royal Photo Gallery Dear Raja I will be going to Kohlapur and Miraj and would be interested in seeing these collections as I study and collect any and all items related to Indian royalty. 'Best wishes Ken Robbins Henry Soszynski wrote on 7/28/05, 2:15 AM: > > At 09:48 AM 26/07/05 -0700, you wrote: > >Thanks for the photo collection. > > > >My family has many photo collections of Kolahapur, Miraj and Jath > >Dynasties back home in india. > > > >Regards, > >Raja > > > > > You're welcome. I have many more and am still looking for more. I hope > your > family are taking good care of the photographs. I've seen many that have > deteriorated quite badly. > Cheers, > Henry > > > ==== INDIA-ROYALTY Mailing List ==== > The posting of Copyright material, without permission of the copyright > holder is forbidden. Selective quoting, though, is appropriate. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > ==== INDIA-ROYALTY Mailing List ==== The posting of Copyright material, without permission of the copyright holder is forbidden. Selective quoting, though, is appropriate. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx
Dear Raja I will be going to Kohlapur and Miraj and would be interested in seeing these collections as I study and collect any and all items related to Indian royalty. 'Best wishes Ken Robbins Henry Soszynski wrote on 7/28/05, 2:15 AM: > > At 09:48 AM 26/07/05 -0700, you wrote: > >Thanks for the photo collection. > > > >My family has many photo collections of Kolahapur, Miraj and Jath > >Dynasties back home in india. > > > >Regards, > >Raja > > > > > You're welcome. I have many more and am still looking for more. I hope > your > family are taking good care of the photographs. I've seen many that have > deteriorated quite badly. > Cheers, > Henry > > > ==== INDIA-ROYALTY Mailing List ==== > The posting of Copyright material, without permission of the copyright > holder is forbidden. Selective quoting, though, is appropriate. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >
Greetings, Please take a look at .... http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/unknown.html .... and see if anyone can decipher the writing with a view to identifying who the subjects are. TIA Cheers, Henry PS Many thanks to Pabitra for the articles (and photos) on the Mughals. If I'm reading it correctly, the Tucy aren't agnatically Mughal by descent, it seems Begum Laila Umahani is the last of this line.
Dear Henry, Howdy,I do collect memoribilia ,stamps,etc of the Princely states & lives in Jamnagar(erstwhile Nawanagar),hence could make out something of what you sent. The First one is in Gujarati and says ...GOVINDLAL & CO.,AHMEDABAD...From BOMBAY ,dated 18.12.'73. The Second one is also in Gujarati & Says...THAKAR HARJI RATANSHI GOKALDASS dated 22.4.'74. Both the dates must either VS or 1800's.And,the pictures must be of leading traders or merchants. The third is a Post card with writing in Hindi, saying...MAHARAJA DHIRAJ..the name cannot be read dated VS 1914...was there a state called DHILWARA or something similar?The Post card has been printed by a firm in Bombay. Hope that was of help to you. Ciao, >Umesh K.Bahri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry Soszynski" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:30 PM Subject: [INDIA-ROYALTY] Unidentified photos > Greetings, > Please take a look at .... > > http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/unknown.html > .... and see if anyone can decipher the writing with a view to identifying > who the subjects are. > TIA > Cheers, > Henry > PS Many thanks to Pabitra for the articles (and photos) on the Mughals. If > I'm reading it correctly, the Tucy aren't agnatically Mughal by descent, > it > seems Begum Laila Umahani is the last of this line. > > > ==== INDIA-ROYALTY Mailing List ==== > The posting of Copyright material, without permission of the copyright > holder is forbidden. Selective quoting, though, is appropriate. > > ============================== > Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the > last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx >
Im helping a friend with her tree She was told that a Thomas Edward Ray or Edward Thomas Ray married a Princess, she has no dates. In her tree there was a William Edward Ray born in 1835 in Madras India to William Ray and Matilda Tapsal . can any one help me on how I can find any information about them,thanks carole in NSW Happy Hunting, Carole NSW
Thanks for the mail, yes I'm aware that MK Shivraj Singh Jodhpur is back. A lot of machines etc needed for his treatment have come with him. Dr.Raj Purohit is looking after his treatment in Jodhpur. I am sure he will be well soon and back to his normal life & his passion...Polo. Regards, R.D.Singh Chandella. On 7/30/05, Arti Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > Just to inform you that Shivraj is back in jodhpur > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ==== INDIA-ROYALTY Mailing List ==== > The posting of Copyright material, without permission of the copyright holder is forbidden. Selective quoting, though, is appropriate. > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > -- R.D.Singh Chandella.
Just to inform you that Shivraj is back in jodhpur __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Prince Yakub Habeebuddin Tucy, Great Grand son of the last Moghal Emperor Hajrath Bahadur Shah Zaffer, son of Prince Yakub Arifuddin Tucy and princess Zartaj Begum was born on Thursday 1st January 1969 at Hyderabad studied bachelor of science affiliated to Osmania University, Hyderabad and got training at Aeronautical Flight Trim Officer GSS at Riyadh KSA and got married with princess Humaria Fathima on 8th May 1997 --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with voicemail
MOGHAL EMPERORS Prince Yakub Habeebuddin Tucy resides at Fern Hills, Asmangadh, Hyderabad. There are about fifty-five members of the Moghal family residing in the twin city of Hyderabad. The last Moghal Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar joined the freedom fight of 1857 war of Independence and raised mutiny against the British rulers and sacrificed his family for the cause of Freedom. On 22 September 1857 Bahadur Shah Zafar was arrested by Hudson and sent to Rangoon. This aged emperor was murdered at the age of 87 on November 7th 1861 and was buried in top secrecy in Myanmar (Burma) a lonely death in spite of having 49 sons and daughters. Out of 49 children, three sons survived (and rest all were killed by the British Government ) since they were not in Red Fort in Delhi. Some were in Humayun Tomb. 1. Prince Dara Bakth & 2. Prince Shahrukh were captured by the British & killed. Prince Mirza Quaish was the only fourth son of Bahadur Shah Zafar & Ashraf Mahal (first wife) who survived and manage to escape, travel to Kathamandu from there he went to Rajastan and lastly to Aurangabad. He was succeeded by his son prince Mirza Abdullah who moved to Hyderabad where he was given refuge by Lashkar Yar Jung, a noble in the serivce at Mahboob Ali Pasha (6th Nizam of Hyderabad). Prince Mirza Abdullahs son was prince Mirza Gafoor Ali Baig alias prince Mirza Pyare who married Habeeb Begum, granddaughter of Tipu Khan Bahadur, and had three children. 1. Prince Yosouf Ali Baig 2. Princess Husan Jahanara Begum 3. Princess Laila Umahani Prince Yosouf Ali Baig died unmarried thus only two heirs of Moghal emperor late Bahadur Shazaffer survived Princess Husan Jahanara Begum married with Mohammed Munawar on 19th July 1935 and had seven children - 3 sons & 4 daughters. Princess Laila Umahani married prince Yakub Moinuddin Tucy, grandson of Nizam-ul-mulk Tucy of Turkey in the year 1935 and had seven children - 4 sons & 3 daughters. Princess Laila Umahani & prince Yakub Moinuddin Tucys son prince Yakub Arifuddin Tucy married princess Zartaj Begum on February 24th 1967 and had three children. 1. Prince Yakub Habeebuddin Tucy 2. Prince Yakub Mujeebuddin Tucy 3. Princess Asma Firdouse Prince Yakub Habeebuddin Tucy married princess Humoura Fathima on 7th May 1997 and has two sons. 1. Prince Yakub Shahrukhuddin Tucy 2. Prince Yakub Waighiuddin Tucy. --------------------------------- How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos. Get Yahoo! Photos
Ziauddin Tucy talks of Moghuls, their grandeur, the last Moghul Emperor Bahadur Shah Zafar and his four wives till the period of what is called India's First War of Independence - the Mutiny of 1857. All these not because the children have inclination for history of Moghuls but because their grandmother herself is said to be the last surviving member and direct descendant of Bahadur Shah Zafar and his first wife, Begum Ashraf Mahal. Eighty-year-old Begum Laila Umahani, who lives in Asmangarh, a small city in Hyderabad, is this grandmother. She narrates the glorious family history to her grandchildren, knowing that it won't have any takers if she goes to tell it to people beyond the periphery of her small house. Begum Laila Umahani helps tracing it when she reveals that after Bahadur Shah Zafar's exile to Burma by the British in 1857, his son Mirza Quaish - the first generation -- managed to save his life and fled to Kathmandu. After he secretly came back to India, he was given shelter by Maharana of Udaipur. His son Mirza Abdullah -- the second generation -- again a fugitive, went to Nagpur and then Aurangabad and finally Hyderabad. Here, Nizam of Hyderabad helped him. His son Mirza Pyre later married Habeeb Begum, hailing from the family of the sixth Nizam of Hyderabad. One "Habeeb Mahal" near Char Minar in Hyderabad, belongs to her which is occupied by one family and they have moved High Court for its possession. Begum Laila Umahani, daughter of Mirza is the fourth and only surviving Moghul from the family. Begum Laila now lives in a rented house in Aamangarh with her two sons, Ziauddin Tucy and Masiduddin Tucy -- the fifth generation. Her husband died earlier. While Ziauddin Tucy is retired marketing supervisor from Andhra Pradesh Government, Masiduddin Tucy is a food consultant in Welcome Group of Hotels in Hyderbad. Pakeeza Begum, claims to be the another direct descendant of Bahadur Shah Zafar. A resident of Neeti Bagh in New Delhi -- her ancestral house Chandni Mahal is in the Walled City. The heir apparent - Vali Ahad -- was supposed to be one and Mirza Qwesh -- whom she refers to as her forefather -- was never a crown prince. He wanted to be one and to do that he also accepted the humiliating conditions of the British but never succeeded. While he was only attempting to become one, the 1857 Mutiny broke out. My great grandfather Mirza Fatehul Mulk was the heir apparent." She narrates the historical background that she says is found in record books too. "Mirza Fatehul Mulk Bahadur alias Mirza Fakhruh was appointed the heir apparent in 1853. At the time of Mutiny, the son of Mirza Fakhruh, Mirza Farkhunda Jamal was only four or five year old. When Major Hudson killed the sons and grandsons of Bahadur Shah Zafar at Khooni Darwaza, Delhi on Bahadur Shah Zafar Marg, and soon after this news broke out, the nurse - Anna -- of Mirza Farkhunda Jamal took the child secretly without even informing the family because those who were responsible for the Mutiny were among the family only. For years, she did not reveal his identity and nurtured him by doing different work at different places. That is how she managed to save the last successor." Some time after the Mutiny the British announced that there would be no killings and punishment, Anna brought the child back to the mother. The British Government released political pension in favour of Mirza Farkhunda Jamal as the heir apparent. After the death of Mirza Jamal, the pension was received by his sons and daughters -- Qamar Sultan Begum -- daughter of Mirza Jamal who kept receiving this share even after Independence. She refused to take it sometime after the Independence saying now we are free citizens and everyone is equal in this democratic country. Sultan Begum died in June 1993. She had two daughters, Begum Tahira Sultan and Pakeeza Sultan Begum. The former is settled in London while the latter lives in Delhi and is also an ex-director ICCR and an expert on Africa. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling worldwide with voicemail
At 10:04 26/07/05 +0100, you wrote: >In message <[email protected]>, Henry >Soszynski <[email protected]> writes >>Greetings, >> For those interested, there's been a more photos added to the >>Patna/Dumaria page, and a new page on the Ajabpur/Banskhoh family has been >>uploaded. Both can be accessed from the following URL... >> >><http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~royalty/files/pix_india_idx.htm l>http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~royalty/files/pix_india_idx.html >>Cheers, >>Henry >>PS When did photography start in India? I was just wondering if there are >>any photos of the Mughal Emperor around. >> >Yes. There is a very sad photo of the aged Bahadur Shah taken in exile >after his deposition, lying on a couch, apparently smoking a hookah, and >looking thoroughly depressed. I have seen it in "A Second Paradise - >Indian Courtly Life 1590-1947" by Naveen Patnaik, published by the >Metropolitan Museum of Art, N Y, 1985. It may have been published >elsewhere as well. The caption says "Attributed to P H Egerton, ca >1858". > >The Emperor had an obviously broken nose. How did it happen? >-- >Chris Pitt Lewis > > This is the one that I have, and the ex-Emperor does indeed look quite sad and forlorn. I hadn't noticed the broken nose, until I looked more closely. I've seen no source that even mentions the broken nose, odd. I also have .jpg of Prince Jiwan Bakht and his brother, dated 1858, as well as an undated one of Zeenat Mahal, looking quite aged. I do hope that there are more photos of the Mughals out there, though one of Akbar Shah would seem most unlikely. Cheers, Henry
At 09:48 AM 26/07/05 -0700, you wrote: >Thanks for the photo collection. > >My family has many photo collections of Kolahapur, Miraj and Jath >Dynasties back home in india. > >Regards, >Raja > > You're welcome. I have many more and am still looking for more. I hope your family are taking good care of the photographs. I've seen many that have deteriorated quite badly. Cheers, Henry
In message <[email protected]>, Henry Soszynski <[email protected]> writes >At 02:57 24/07/05 +0100, you wrote: > >>>> >>>Try >>><<http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html>http://ww >w.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html><http://www.gu/>http:/ >/www.gu >>>ardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html >>>Unfortunately the exact line of descent is not spelled out, which is what >I'm >>>trying to find out. >>>Cheers, >>>Henry >>> >> >>I can't give the full answer, but here is a start. >> >>Though the family is not in the last two editions of Burke, it is in the >>1970 edition, from which, with some additional sources (Burke's Landed >>Gentry 1937 (for Van Straubenzee) and a post by Annabelle Sutton on the >>INDIA-L dated 5 jan 2003), the following appears to be Julian Gardner's >>lineage. There are clearly several cousin marriages involved. Old >>fashioned spellings as given in Burke. >> >> [Long ancestor list snipped] >> >Hello Chris, > Thnaks for the great info on this family, your mention of Burke's >made me look at my Debrett's 1927, which I didn't think would have any >information, but did in fact give worthwhile additional data. This is a family >that believed in cousin marriages. While we still can't find the link between >the two James Valentine Gardners, there's enough there to maybe give a Mughal >descent for Julian Gardner anyway, as follows. >Julian James Gardner, son of >Alan Legge Gardner, son of >Jane Sheko, daughter of Ungun Sheko, who I'm equating with Shahzada Mirza >Anjan >Shikoh, who was son of Shahzada Mirza Suleiman Shikoh, son of Padshah Shah >Alam >1728-1806. >Interestingly enough, Alan Hyde Gardner (1836-1899), had a younger brother, >Edward Gardner (1838-1891), who was father of Benjamin (1889-), who married in >1914, Sophie Sheko, possibly a granddaughter of Anjan Shikoh (my guess). It >appears to be a large family, so there's probably more Mughal descents and >cousin marriages as well. >Cheers, >Henry > > Burke 1970 calls Benjamin's wife "Soaphe Sheakoa", so this may need further investigation. You may be right about "Ungun" equalling "Anjan", but it does not seem to be an obvious way to spell it (one would naturally pronounce it with a hard "g", or the "ng" sound, not a "j"). There are a lot of Gardner to Gardner marriages shown in Burke, which appears to cover the descendants of the 1st Baron fairly fully, but does not trace the descendants of his brother. I imagine that, stranded between the Indian caste system and English racism, but not wanting to marry beneath themselves, the Anglo-Indian Gardners of the late 19th and early 20th centuries had very few choices but to marry each other. -- Chris Pitt Lewis
In message <[email protected]>, Henry Soszynski <[email protected]> writes >Greetings, > For those interested, there's been a more photos added to the >Patna/Dumaria page, and a new page on the Ajabpur/Banskhoh family has been >uploaded. Both can be accessed from the following URL... > >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~royalty/files/pix_india_idx.html >Cheers, >Henry >PS When did photography start in India? I was just wondering if there are >any photos of the Mughal Emperor around. > Yes. There is a very sad photo of the aged Bahadur Shah taken in exile after his deposition, lying on a couch, apparently smoking a hookah, and looking thoroughly depressed. I have seen it in "A Second Paradise - Indian Courtly Life 1590-1947" by Naveen Patnaik, published by the Metropolitan Museum of Art, N Y, 1985. It may have been published elsewhere as well. The caption says "Attributed to P H Egerton, ca 1858". The Emperor had an obviously broken nose. How did it happen? -- Chris Pitt Lewis
Greetings, For those interested, there's been a more photos added to the Patna/Dumaria page, and a new page on the Ajabpur/Banskhoh family has been uploaded. Both can be accessed from the following URL... http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~royalty/files/pix_india_idx.html Cheers, Henry PS When did photography start in India? I was just wondering if there are any photos of the Mughal Emperor around.
At 02:57 24/07/05 +0100, you wrote: >>> >>Try >><<http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html>http://ww w.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html><http://www.gu/>http:/ /www.gu >>ardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html >>Unfortunately the exact line of descent is not spelled out, which is what I'm >>trying to find out. >>Cheers, >>Henry >> > >I can't give the full answer, but here is a start. > >Though the family is not in the last two editions of Burke, it is in the >1970 edition, from which, with some additional sources (Burke's Landed >Gentry 1937 (for Van Straubenzee) and a post by Annabelle Sutton on the >INDIA-L dated 5 jan 2003), the following appears to be Julian Gardner's >lineage. There are clearly several cousin marriages involved. Old >fashioned spellings as given in Burke. > > >1. Julian James Gardner (de jure 7th Baron Gardner?) b 1942 > >2. Alan William Gardner (de jure 6th Baron Gardner) b 3 dec 1908 >3. Ethel Lydia Gardner > >4. Alan Legge Gardner (de jure 5th Baron Gardner?) b 25 oct 1881 >m.(1) 14 jan 1907 >5. Christina Gardner d 1918 >6. James Valentine Gardner (*see below) >7. > >8. Alan Hyde Gardner (de jure 4th Baron Gardner) b 1 jul 1836 d 9 jul >1899 m. 12 mar 1879 >9. Jane Sheko d 12 jun 1891 >10. William Gardner, Zamindar of Ourrupure >11. >12. >13. >14. >15. > >16. Stewart William Gardner b 18 aug 1812 d 20 jul 1882 m. 28 aug 1834 >17. Jane Gardner (Hurmoozee Begum) d 15 jun 1869 >18. Ungun Sheko >19. > >32. Rear Admiral Francis ffarington Gardner b 21 jun 1772 d 8 jul 1821 >m. 4 may 1809 >33. Catherine Van Straubenzee b 11 jun 1787 d 15 jul 1870 >34. Col Alan Gardner d 30 jan 1828 >35. > >64. Admiral Sir Alan Gardner, 1st Baron Gardner b 12 feb 1742 d 1 jan >1809 m. 20 may 1769 >65. Susannah Hyde Gale d 20 apr 1823 >66. Charles Spencer Van Straubenzee, of Spennithorne, Yorks >67. Anne Theophila Davison >68. Lt Col William Linnaeus Gardner b 1770 d d 29 jul 1835 >69. Nawab Mah Manzil-un-nisa Begum Dehlivi (of Cambay) d 31 aug 1835 > >128. Lt Col William Gardner b 24 mar 1691 d 14 aug 1762 m. 7 dec 1729 >129. Elizabeth ffarington d 16 aug 1783 [dau of Valentine ffarington of >Preston] >130. Francis Gale, of Liguanoa, Jamaica >131. Susannah Hall >132. Philip William Casimir Van Straubenzee d 1765 m 1745 >133. Jane Turner [dau of Cholmeley Turner of Kirkleatham, Yorks] >134. Rev J Davison, Rector of Scruton >135. [dau of Sir George Vane, of Raby] >136. Major Valentine Gardner b 6 may 1739 [elder son of 128 and 129] >137. Alida Livingston d sep 1791 [dau of Robert Livingston, lord of the >manor of Livingston in New York State] > >* This James Valentine Gardner is presumably a descendant of James >Valentine Gardner d Chhaoni 14 jun 1845, eldest son of William Linnaeus >Gardner (no 68), who m. (1) Bibi Sahiba Banoo and (2) ca 1834 Nawab >Mulka Humanee Begum, dau of Mirza Suleiman Sheko and niece of Emperor >Akbar Shah. > >The obvious places to look next for more information are >(a) Morris Bierbrier's list of Mughal descendants published in various >numbers of the current American periodical "The Genealogist" >(b) District Gazetteers covering Khasganj, Chhaoni, Ourrupure and any >other relevant places (all in the United Provinces??). >-- >Chris Pitt Lewis > > Hello Chris, Thnaks for the great info on this family, your mention of Burke's made me look at my Debrett's 1927, which I didn't think would have any information, but did in fact give worthwhile additional data. This is a family that believed in cousin marriages. While we still can't find the link between the two James Valentine Gardners, there's enough there to maybe give a Mughal descent for Julian Gardner anyway, as follows. Julian James Gardner, son of Alan Legge Gardner, son of Jane Sheko, daughter of Ungun Sheko, who I'm equating with Shahzada Mirza Anjan Shikoh, who was son of Shahzada Mirza Suleiman Shikoh, son of Padshah Shah Alam 1728-1806. Interestingly enough, Alan Hyde Gardner (1836-1899), had a younger brother, Edward Gardner (1838-1891), who was father of Benjamin (1889-), who married in 1914, Sophie Sheko, possibly a granddaughter of Anjan Shikoh (my guess). It appears to be a large family, so there's probably more Mughal descents and cousin marriages as well. Cheers, Henry
Thanks for the photo collection. My family has many photo collections of Kolahapur, Miraj and Jath Dynasties back home in india. Regards, Raja -----Original Message----- From: Henry Soszynski [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 1:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [INDIA-ROYALTY] Royal Photo Gallery Greetings, For those interested, there's been a more photos added to the Patna/Dumaria page, and a new page on the Ajabpur/Banskhoh family has been uploaded. Both can be accessed from the following URL... http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~royalty/files/pix_india_idx.html Cheers, Henry PS When did photography start in India? I was just wondering if there are any photos of the Mughal Emperor around. ==== INDIA-ROYALTY Mailing List ==== The posting of Copyright material, without permission of the copyright holder is forbidden. Selective quoting, though, is appropriate. ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx
In message <[email protected]>, Henry Soszynski <[email protected]> writes >At 08:20 AM 22/07/05 -0700, you wrote: >> >> >>Henry Soszynski wrote: >> >>> Julian Gardner, born c1941, an Anglo-Indian, may be heir to the dormant >>> Barony of Gardner of Uttotexeter, though he can't afford to have his claim >>> recognized by the appropriate body. He apparently descends from Padshah >>> Shah Alam II (1729-1806), via his son Shahzada Mirza Suleiman Shikoh >>> (+1838), whose daughter married James Valentine Gardner (+1845). Anyone >>> have further details of the Gardner-Mughal marriage? >>> Cheers, >>> Henry >>> >> >>Hello: >> >>what was the daughter's name? >> >>what is the lineage from her to Julian Gardner? >> >>thank-you >> >> >Try ><http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html>http://www.gu >ardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html >Unfortunately the exact line of descent is not spelled out, which is what I'm >trying to find out. >Cheers, >Henry > > I can't give the full answer, but here is a start. Though the family is not in the last two editions of Burke, it is in the 1970 edition, from which, with some additional sources (Burke's Landed Gentry 1937 (for Van Straubenzee) and a post by Annabelle Sutton on the INDIA-L dated 5 jan 2003), the following appears to be Julian Gardner's lineage. There are clearly several cousin marriages involved. Old fashioned spellings as given in Burke. 1. Julian James Gardner (de jure 7th Baron Gardner?) b 1942 2. Alan William Gardner (de jure 6th Baron Gardner) b 3 dec 1908 3. Ethel Lydia Gardner 4. Alan Legge Gardner (de jure 5th Baron Gardner?) b 25 oct 1881 m.(1) 14 jan 1907 5. Christina Gardner d 1918 6. James Valentine Gardner (*see below) 7. 8. Alan Hyde Gardner (de jure 4th Baron Gardner) b 1 jul 1836 d 9 jul 1899 m. 12 mar 1879 9. Jane Sheko d 12 jun 1891 10. William Gardner, Zamindar of Ourrupure 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. Stewart William Gardner b 18 aug 1812 d 20 jul 1882 m. 28 aug 1834 17. Jane Gardner (Hurmoozee Begum) d 15 jun 1869 18. Ungun Sheko 19. 32. Rear Admiral Francis ffarington Gardner b 21 jun 1772 d 8 jul 1821 m. 4 may 1809 33. Catherine Van Straubenzee b 11 jun 1787 d 15 jul 1870 34. Col Alan Gardner d 30 jan 1828 35. 64. Admiral Sir Alan Gardner, 1st Baron Gardner b 12 feb 1742 d 1 jan 1809 m. 20 may 1769 65. Susannah Hyde Gale d 20 apr 1823 66. Charles Spencer Van Straubenzee, of Spennithorne, Yorks 67. Anne Theophila Davison 68. Lt Col William Linnaeus Gardner b 1770 d d 29 jul 1835 69. Nawab Mah Manzil-un-nisa Begum Dehlivi (of Cambay) d 31 aug 1835 128. Lt Col William Gardner b 24 mar 1691 d 14 aug 1762 m. 7 dec 1729 129. Elizabeth ffarington d 16 aug 1783 [dau of Valentine ffarington of Preston] 130. Francis Gale, of Liguanoa, Jamaica 131. Susannah Hall 132. Philip William Casimir Van Straubenzee d 1765 m 1745 133. Jane Turner [dau of Cholmeley Turner of Kirkleatham, Yorks] 134. Rev J Davison, Rector of Scruton 135. [dau of Sir George Vane, of Raby] 136. Major Valentine Gardner b 6 may 1739 [elder son of 128 and 129] 137. Alida Livingston d sep 1791 [dau of Robert Livingston, lord of the manor of Livingston in New York State] * This James Valentine Gardner is presumably a descendant of James Valentine Gardner d Chhaoni 14 jun 1845, eldest son of William Linnaeus Gardner (no 68), who m. (1) Bibi Sahiba Banoo and (2) ca 1834 Nawab Mulka Humanee Begum, dau of Mirza Suleiman Sheko and niece of Emperor Akbar Shah. The obvious places to look next for more information are (a) Morris Bierbrier's list of Mughal descendants published in various numbers of the current American periodical "The Genealogist" (b) District Gazetteers covering Khasganj, Chhaoni, Ourrupure and any other relevant places (all in the United Provinces??). -- Chris Pitt Lewis
At 08:20 AM 22/07/05 -0700, you wrote: > > >Henry Soszynski wrote: > >> Julian Gardner, born c1941, an Anglo-Indian, may be heir to the dormant >> Barony of Gardner of Uttotexeter, though he can't afford to have his claim >> recognized by the appropriate body. He apparently descends from Padshah >> Shah Alam II (1729-1806), via his son Shahzada Mirza Suleiman Shikoh >> (+1838), whose daughter married James Valentine Gardner (+1845). Anyone >> have further details of the Gardner-Mughal marriage? >> Cheers, >> Henry >> > >Hello: > >what was the daughter's name? > >what is the lineage from her to Julian Gardner? > >thank-you > > Try <http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html>http://www.gu ardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1102144,00.html Unfortunately the exact line of descent is not spelled out, which is what I'm trying to find out. Cheers, Henry