Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: "mukund murty" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be richer? > Well, there's also a huge question mark against what William Sleeman did > to/ > with the Thugs... > > Very, very, arguable, as to whether these were really criminal gangs, and > whether the people hanged were really deserving of the hanging - rather > like > what happened in so many villages during the 'Mutiny...' > > It really is true when they say that history is the story of the Victor. > > On 29 April 2010 19:26, Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Apr 22nd 2010 From The Economist print edition >> >> >> http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15955530&source=most_commented >> >> >> http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15955530&source=most_commented >> >> India's criminal tribes >> If they were crooks, wouldn't they be richer? Millions of poor >> Indians are considered criminal by tradition. Most are nothing >> of the sort >> >> | ASHTI, MAHARASHTRA | >> >> According to an 1880 report of the Bombay Presidency, an >> area dominated by the modern states of Maharashtra and >> Gujarat, members of a Pardhi sub-tribe are "always ragged >> and dirty, walking with a sneaking gait". >> >> To fix these vagabonds, the Raj introduced the 1871 Criminal >> Tribes Act, under which members of around 150 tribes were >> forced to register with the police, forbidden to move around >> freely and, in many cases, herded into barbed-wire camps. >> The law was scrapped soon after India won independence, >> and the criminal tribes were formally "de-notified" in 1952. >> Some have prospered: in Rajasthan, the Meenas dominate >> a preferential-treatment scheme to allocate government jobs >> to tribal people, which has let them become part of India's >> elite civil services. Yet the fortunes of many de-notified tribes >> (DNTs) have scarcely improved. [snip] >> >> --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Lynne, Don't you know that revisionist history is in vogue these days! Who cares about truth? It's all about agenda! Sandra -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Hadley Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:32 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be richer? Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne ----- Original Message ----- From: "mukund murty" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:06 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be richer? > Well, there's also a huge question mark against what William Sleeman > did to/ with the Thugs... > > Very, very, arguable, as to whether these were really criminal gangs, > and whether the people hanged were really deserving of the hanging - > rather like what happened in so many villages during the 'Mutiny...' > > It really is true when they say that history is the story of the Victor. > > On 29 April 2010 19:26, Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Apr 22nd 2010 From The Economist print edition >> >> >> http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1595553 >> 0&source=most_commented >> >> >> http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1595553 >> 0&source=most_commented >> >> India's criminal tribes >> If they were crooks, wouldn't they be richer? Millions of poor >> Indians are considered criminal by tradition. Most are nothing of the >> sort >> >> | ASHTI, MAHARASHTRA | >> >> According to an 1880 report of the Bombay Presidency, an area >> dominated by the modern states of Maharashtra and Gujarat, members of >> a Pardhi sub-tribe are "always ragged and dirty, walking with a >> sneaking gait". >> >> To fix these vagabonds, the Raj introduced the 1871 Criminal Tribes >> Act, under which members of around 150 tribes were forced to register >> with the police, forbidden to move around freely and, in many cases, >> herded into barbed-wire camps. >> The law was scrapped soon after India won independence, and the >> criminal tribes were formally "de-notified" in 1952. >> Some have prospered: in Rajasthan, the Meenas dominate a >> preferential-treatment scheme to allocate government jobs to tribal >> people, which has let them become part of India's elite civil >> services. Yet the fortunes of many de-notified tribes >> (DNTs) have scarcely improved. [snip] >> >> --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
All too true, Sandra!! Cheers, Lynne. :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "sandra carney" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 8:30 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be richer? > Lynne, > Don't you know that revisionist history is in vogue these days! > Who cares about truth? It's all about agenda! > Sandra > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Lynne Hadley > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2010 5:32 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be > richer? > > Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a > break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mukund murty" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:06 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be > richer? > > >> Well, there's also a huge question mark against what William Sleeman >> did to/ with the Thugs... >> >> Very, very, arguable, as to whether these were really criminal gangs, >> and whether the people hanged were really deserving of the hanging - >> rather like what happened in so many villages during the 'Mutiny...' >> >> It really is true when they say that history is the story of the Victor. >> >> On 29 April 2010 19:26, Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Apr 22nd 2010 From The Economist print edition >>> >>> >>> http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1595553 >>> 0&source=most_commented >>> >>> >>> http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=1595553 >>> 0&source=most_commented >>> >>> India's criminal tribes >>> If they were crooks, wouldn't they be richer? Millions of poor >>> Indians are considered criminal by tradition. Most are nothing of the >>> sort >>> >>> | ASHTI, MAHARASHTRA | >>> >>> According to an 1880 report of the Bombay Presidency, an area >>> dominated by the modern states of Maharashtra and Gujarat, members of >>> a Pardhi sub-tribe are "always ragged and dirty, walking with a >>> sneaking gait". >>> >>> To fix these vagabonds, the Raj introduced the 1871 Criminal Tribes >>> Act, under which members of around 150 tribes were forced to register >>> with the police, forbidden to move around freely and, in many cases, >>> herded into barbed-wire camps. >>> The law was scrapped soon after India won independence, and the >>> criminal tribes were formally "de-notified" in 1952. >>> Some have prospered: in Rajasthan, the Meenas dominate a >>> preferential-treatment scheme to allocate government jobs to tribal >>> people, which has let them become part of India's elite civil >>> services. Yet the fortunes of many de-notified tribes >>> (DNTs) have scarcely improved. [snip] >>> >>> --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >>> without >>> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
"Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne" "yes, too bad that the victims of Thugs couldn't come forwards to identify the perpetrators. Megan S. Mills PHD" Again, mails, and that too, rude mails, from the same two people who pounced upon my mail on the INA some months ago. All that I can say in this regard to both you ladies is, firstly, READ, for heaven's sake, READ !! And secondly, DON'T BE RUDE !! Spewing a football hooligan style of uncalled-for venom is totally unacceptable and intolerable. Harsha, I shall be most grateful if you could advise them that intemperate remarks of this sort are *not* the norm. Recently, there was an excellent book (no, not by a revisionist Indian ex-thug, but by a well-read, educated Englishman) who had conducted a well-planned and lengthy research on Sleeman and the thugs (I can't remember his name, but I think the book is called 'On Sleeman's Trail,' well-researched, and well-written) wherein he has quoted extensively from original sources showing how, in many cases, the problem was largely exaggerated, and how the evidence for hanging in a large number of cases was superficial. His book gives full credence to Harsha's statement on the so-called 'criminal tribes' which first gave rise to this thread. Try and get your hands on that book and read it, and *then* let's have a discussion, not an unseemly argument. On 30 April 2010 04:31, Lynne Hadley <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a > break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "mukund murty" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:06 AM > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be > richer? > > > > Well, there's also a huge question mark against what William Sleeman did > > to/ > > with the Thugs... > > > > Very, very, arguable, as to whether these were really criminal gangs, and > > whether the people hanged were really deserving of the hanging - rather > > like > > what happened in so many villages during the 'Mutiny...' > > > > It really is true when they say that history is the story of the Victor. > > > > On 29 April 2010 19:26, Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > >> Apr 22nd 2010 From The Economist print edition > >> > >> > >> > http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15955530&source=most_commented > >> > >> > >> > http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15955530&source=most_commented > >> > >> India's criminal tribes > >> If they were crooks, wouldn't they be richer? Millions of poor > >> Indians are considered criminal by tradition. Most are nothing > >> of the sort > >> > >> | ASHTI, MAHARASHTRA | > >> > >> According to an 1880 report of the Bombay Presidency, an > >> area dominated by the modern states of Maharashtra and > >> Gujarat, members of a Pardhi sub-tribe are "always ragged > >> and dirty, walking with a sneaking gait". > >> > >> To fix these vagabonds, the Raj introduced the 1871 Criminal > >> Tribes Act, under which members of around 150 tribes were > >> forced to register with the police, forbidden to move around > >> freely and, in many cases, herded into barbed-wire camps. > >> The law was scrapped soon after India won independence, > >> and the criminal tribes were formally "de-notified" in 1952. > >> Some have prospered: in Rajasthan, the Meenas dominate > >> a preferential-treatment scheme to allocate government jobs > >> to tribal people, which has let them become part of India's > >> elite civil services. Yet the fortunes of many de-notified tribes > >> (DNTs) have scarcely improved. [snip] > >> > >> --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > >> without > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Read you loud and clear, Mukund. Have been reading South Asian history of different kinds/Indian religions, for 25+ years, thanks. Most recently on the Thags -- not Thugs -- I've come to think that Sleeman wasn't off, though the methods of the day do not fit with ours. On a lighter note, interesting to spot various letters to editors in Indian periodicals half-wishing for a new Pindari War in the Republic of India. Best Wishes, Megan Megan S. Mills PHD 198 St Helen's Toronto CDA M6H 4A1 > Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 09:29:52 +0700 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks, wouldn't they be richer? > > "Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a > break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne" > > "yes, too bad that the victims of Thugs couldn't come forwards to identify > the perpetrators. > > Megan S. Mills PHD" > > Again, mails, and that too, rude mails, from the same two people who pounced > upon my mail on the INA some months ago. > > All that I can say in this regard to both you ladies is, firstly, READ, for > heaven's sake, READ !! > > And secondly, DON'T BE RUDE !! Spewing a football hooligan style of > uncalled-for venom is totally unacceptable and intolerable. Harsha, I shall > be most grateful if you could advise them that intemperate remarks of this > sort are *not* the norm. > > Recently, there was an excellent book (no, not by a revisionist Indian > ex-thug, but by a well-read, educated Englishman) who had conducted a > well-planned and lengthy research on Sleeman and the thugs (I can't remember > his name, but I think the book is called 'On Sleeman's Trail,' > well-researched, and well-written) wherein he has quoted extensively from > original sources showing how, in many cases, the problem was largely > exaggerated, and how the evidence for hanging in a large number of cases was > superficial. His book gives full credence to Harsha's statement on the > so-called 'criminal tribes' which first gave rise to this thread. > > Try and get your hands on that book and read it, and *then* let's have a > discussion, not an unseemly argument. > > On 30 April 2010 04:31, Lynne Hadley <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Yes, that nasty Sleeman, hanging those murderous highway men. Give me a > > break....another attempt at sanitising Indian history? Lynne > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "mukund murty" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 12:06 AM > > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] If they were crooks,wouldn't they be > > richer? > > > > > > > Well, there's also a huge question mark against what William Sleeman did > > > to/ > > > with the Thugs... > > > > > > Very, very, arguable, as to whether these were really criminal gangs, and > > > whether the people hanged were really deserving of the hanging - rather > > > like > > > what happened in so many villages during the 'Mutiny...' > > > > > > It really is true when they say that history is the story of the Victor. > > > > > > On 29 April 2010 19:26, Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > > > <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > > >> Apr 22nd 2010 From The Economist print edition > > >> > > >> > > >> > > http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15955530&source=most_commented > > >> > > >> > > >> > > http://www.economist.com/world/asia/displayStory.cfm?story_id=15955530&source=most_commented > > >> > > >> India's criminal tribes > > >> If they were crooks, wouldn't they be richer? Millions of poor > > >> Indians are considered criminal by tradition. Most are nothing > > >> of the sort > > >> > > >> | ASHTI, MAHARASHTRA | > > >> > > >> According to an 1880 report of the Bombay Presidency, an > > >> area dominated by the modern states of Maharashtra and > > >> Gujarat, members of a Pardhi sub-tribe are "always ragged > > >> and dirty, walking with a sneaking gait". > > >> > > >> To fix these vagabonds, the Raj introduced the 1871 Criminal > > >> Tribes Act, under which members of around 150 tribes were > > >> forced to register with the police, forbidden to move around > > >> freely and, in many cases, herded into barbed-wire camps. > > >> The law was scrapped soon after India won independence, > > >> and the criminal tribes were formally "de-notified" in 1952. > > >> Some have prospered: in Rajasthan, the Meenas dominate > > >> a preferential-treatment scheme to allocate government jobs > > >> to tribal people, which has let them become part of India's > > >> elite civil services. Yet the fortunes of many de-notified tribes > > >> (DNTs) have scarcely improved. [snip] > > >> > > >> --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > >> without > > >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > > without > > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >