Maureen - These were lovely to view and I have been pporing over them. I think that if I were asked what single aspect of India and its street scenes in particular, impress me more than similar scenes in any other country on this planet, I would have to say that India is always in 'costume' ..... a passing parade of people who are identified by the garments they wear. These along with other aspects of personal 'adornment', make for a vibrant and attention catching passing parade. Having spent my youth in India, I was able to connect a man with his trade and ethnic stock, I suppose, by the simple expedient of marking his garments. I hope this aspect of India remains ..... unique and wonderful in its diversity. Thanks again Maureen for these scenes of people (and buildings) incomparable. Wishes Sally Stewart : > http://www.imagesofasia.com/india.php> > > Maureen >

Images of India http://www.imagesofasia.com/india.php Maureen

http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2007/11/24/stories/2007112451780300.htm In 1859, the British authorities felt a need to have a sanatorium for their troops serving in the northern provinces. The commander-in-chief of the British troops Patrick Grant issued an order from the Madras Presidency to identify a suitable location....... Maureen

>From - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7095922.stm Published: 27/11/2007 Kipling's India home to become museum By Zubair Ahmed BBC News, Mumbai Noted English poet and writer Rudyard Kipling's birthplace in the Indian city of Mumbai (Bombay) is being converted into an art museum. The Maharashtra state government, of which Mumbai is the capital, has formed a committee to implement the project by 2009. The timber and stone two-storey cottage, built more than 100 years ago, is surprisingly not much affected by the ravages of time and sits delicately in the womb of the famous JJ School of Art campus in the heart of bustling Mumbai The art school has a vast collection of contemporary paintings, dating from 1850, which will now be part of the museum. And so will be a few articles of the author of Jungle Book, who also penned the beautiful poem, 'If'. A bust of Kipling, installed on the veranda of the cottage, greets visitors, announcing in fading letters the day and year he was born in the house. Paying homage Vikas Dilawari, who teaches architecture on the campus, says foreign visitors often come to take a look at the bungalow, where Kipling was born on 30 Dec. 1865 - the year his father John Lockwood Kipling joined the art school as its dean. Mr Dilawari believes once the bungalow is converted into a heritage museum many more people will visit it. "It's an attempt on our part to pay homage to a great writer, who was born in Mumbai," he says. Mr Dilawari's colleague Santosh Shivsagar is on the committee which will implement the project. "It's a tribute to a great writer. The museum will become a reference point for Kipling," he says. Until a few years ago no one thought of the idea of a heritage museum, largely because it was an official residence of the school's deans. But Sangeeta Jindal, an avid art lover, was visiting the campus recently to find out about a place to showcase hundreds of rare paintings gathering dust on the campus. "I had no idea the place was right there on the campus. I learnt about Kipling's bungalow which was lying vacant. That's how the idea of converting it into a museum was born," she says. Intact She says it is an honour for the people of Mumbai to be associated with an author of such international fame. "Kipling left for England as a child, but never forgot Mumbai and always called it the best city in the world," she says. Ms Jindal is contributing a portion of her personal fortune to the project, which will have a café and a library attached to the museum. The cottage has been lying vacant for the last seven years and some parts need urgent repairs. But it is still largely intact. Niyati Pimpikar, daughter of one of the deans in the 1960s, had lived there as a child 40 years ago. She is delighted to hear the Kipling house is being converted into a heritage museum. "I am proud of being part of the Kipling legacy. Like him I also lived in that cottage as a child. It's a lovely house," she says. Rudyard Kipling, who was English language's first recipient of the Nobel prize for literature, spent only the first six years of his life in the house after which his father sent him to England to study. He did return to India as a young man, but it was to Lahore. No room The cottage is a typical colonial building, with high ceilings and sloping roofs. It is bang in the middle of a lush garden. It is a twin cottage, and the other side of the house was meant for the dean's deputy The museum, which is likely to be complete by 2009, will have a separate room, which will be called the "Kipling Room". But it is ironical that there would be no room for John Lockwood Kipling. It was the senior Kipling who is credited to have made real contribution to the city's architectural development. Mr Dilawari says he would like to pay tribute to the senior Kipling as well. In his field of art and architecture John Lockwood Kipling was well known, he says. Mr Dilawari says it was the senior Kipling whose architectural designs had influenced many buildings of the city of Mumbai in the 19th century, chief among them being the impressive Victoria Terminus railway station building and the municipal headquarters opposite it. ======================================

British struck first deal in city 28 Nov 2007 Quoting from --- http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Ahmedabad/British_struck_first_deal_in_city/articleshow/2576844.cms AHMEDABAD: (Gujarath state) -- If Mumbai was the seat of British power, its seeds were sown in ''Amdavad''. For, the first permission to the British to trade in India was granted by Mughal Emperor Jehangir right here. On February 20, 1618, Sir Thomas Roe, after a hot pursuit of the Emperor right from Delhi to Ajmer and finally to Ahmedabad, managed to get an audience with him in the city and clinched the crucial permission for the British empire and its merchants to trade in India. Fed up with disappointments in dislodging the Dutch from the Spice Islands, the British had finally turned to India in 1600. In 1614, then reigning British King James I instructed ambassador Sir Roe to visit the court of Jehangir, to arrange a commercial treaty and secure for the East India Company sites for factories. ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Quoting from - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians_Abroad/ Oxford_begins_research_on_early_Indian_migrants/articleshow/2549563.cms ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India Oxford begins research on early Indian migrants 18 Nov 2007 LONDON: A research project charting the life and times of early Indian students, visitors and migrants to Britain such as Dadabhai Naoroji, Cornelia Sorabji and Rabindranath Tagore has been launched at the University of Oxford. Elleke Boehmer, professor of World Literature in English at the university, said: "We are particularly interested in finding out about how early South Asian migrants to Britain conceived of themselves as modern, usually urban subjects and citizens. "We would welcome people getting in touch if they have family memories or memorabilia relating to the 1870-1920 period which speak to these ideas." Britain attracted several bright Indians who later went on to distinguish themselves in various fields, including in India's freedom struggle. Several key leaders in the struggle had a strong connection with Britain, mainly in the field of education. The research project will examine and chronicle the contribution made by South Asians to British cultural and political life from the late 19th century onwards - from MPs to major literary figures. The project, called "Making Britain: Visions of Home and Abroad", will look at migrants from the Indian subcontinent in Britain as far back as 1870 and their work as writers, political activists and artists. It will examine how they saw themselves in terms of race, class and nation and the links they formed between themselves as a group. Boehmer said: "There is a perception that Britain as a multiracial and multicultural society is a product of the Second World War. This research will challenge that view, looking at how South Asians were shaping British life and culture much earlier. "Studying this period also shows us that the aspects of multiculturalism that attract such interest today - from innovative literature to the fear of terrorism - were with us a century ago." People from the Indian subcontinent made a distinctive contribution to British cultural life in this period. For example, Krishna Menon studied in London in the 1920s and later became a councillor in St Pancras and the founder of Pelican books. Meary James Tambimuttu was a writer who in 1938 founded Poetry London, a journal which provided a platform for new writers such as Lawrence Durrell and which continues to this day. South Asians also played an important role in politics. Dadadhai Naoroji, a businessman who came to Britain in the 1850s, was elected Britain's first Asian MP in 1892. Others found themselves in conflict with British society and joined anti-establishment groups such as the Indian Communist party. A few turned to violence, most famously with the murder of Sir Curzon Wyllie, an India Office official, in 1909. The research will also re-assess the impact on Britain of figures better known for their role in Indian culture. These include the social reformer Cornelia Sorabji, who studied at Oxford and became the first female Indian barrister, and Rabindranath Tagore, who won the Nobel Prize in 1913. Boehmer said that Oxford was a major centre for South Asians during the period under study. By 1922, there were 150 students who had attended the university, which offers rich resources for the study of these groups. The research will draw on a range of sources, from historical and political archives to literature, journalism and photographs. Sumita Mukherjee, research assistant on the project, who recently completed a doctorate on Indian students in Britain from 1900-1947, said: "Indian students had varied individual responses to British social and educational life. One common theme was a strengthening of their sense of Indian identity as opposed to specific regional identities. "The students had an important impact on both British and Indian life - English education brought considerable prestige in India, forming the basis for great status there." ================================

A nice website full of old photos from British India; for sale of course, but you don't have to buy, just see and enjoy! http://www.the-eastern-window.com/ Visit and search for India. Click on links on the results page to see individual snaps. This one is captioned, << Regimental Tug of war team. I don't know from which infantry regiment. In the negative: "Winners of the Tug of War Catch Weight Meerut assault at arms 1904." Unmounted gelatin photograph by unknown photographer. Sizes ca 11 x 8,25 inches.>> http://www.the-eastern-window.com/EWvar-index.html?row1col2=EWmil15-03.html ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

The past meets the present here The site where the Le Cafe´ building stands has a fascinating history http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mp/2006/08/26/stories/2006082600160300.htm ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

John I am teaching my 3 year old Ukrainian God daughter to speak English 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' and 'The rain in Spain ...... also in Aussie 'Ask the Master to pass the pharata'. [ All one tone ] She laughs and think its funny, but who said English could not be fun? Roland

Hi Rupert, Many thanks for your help. Where would one pick up a CD like the one you managed to purchase. on the Lancers Please ? Again many thanks for the information .Rupert . Have a nice day . Bill In Weymouth .N.Z.

Dear Bill On eBay. I do not remember getting mine from the USA but this below will cost you L5.00 total. Note this is for the regular cavalry; there are others listing the imperial yeomanry and the Foot Guards: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/QSA-BOER-WAR-MEDAL-ROLL-TO-THE-REGULAR-CAVALRY_W0QQite mZ220175857248QQihZ012QQcategoryZ101150QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem My disk has no supplier setails, so I cannot refer you to an earth bound source. If push came to shove I could copy the data to you. Rupert Butler -----Original Message----- From: india-british-raj-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:india-british-raj-bounces@rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of BILL BRADEN-BROWN Sent: 26 November 2007 04:32 To: india-british-raj@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Where is JOHN HUDSON , bn ,1896 Lucknow. India. Hi Rupert, Many thanks for your help. Where would one pick up a CD like the one you managed to purchase. on the Lancers Please ? Again many thanks for the information .Rupert . Have a nice day . Bill In Weymouth .N.Z. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.2 - Release Date: 20/11/2007 00:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.2 - Release Date: 20/11/2007 00:00

Hello All, I have read, and enjoyed reading, all that has been said about we English growing up in India and never learning to speak the language spoken in the area of residence. Sadly, many of us do not have the gift of learning a language - something that comes easily to some and not to others. I am one of the latter! However, I feel that I did pronounce the words I knew, and used, correctly. Nowadays I get rather frustrated when I hear radio and TV announcers mispronounce the India/Pakistan place names that are so much in the news these days. Thelma Bliss on a cold and rainy day in Nova Scotia.

Hello Bill You have struck the nail on the head. We just not take it seriously at all, I am ashamed to say however, never too late to start - if we can. I lived for many years in Germany in a village where "English" was not spoken at all. When I first arrived there I was shocked to find that no one spoke my mother-tongue - heaven forbid, how no earth could anyone not speak English, Britannia Rule the Waves after all!!! I ended up speaking German "like a native" so much so that there were times, when I completely forgot my own language - could that be possible???? It is 32 years since I was last in Germany and to this day I still pronounce English words the German way!!! So, what other excuse can I give for atrocious pronouncement of Hindi words - let's just say it was the way things there done in those days which we like "sheep" followed. Please guys, this is a merely personal point of view, try not to get too triger happy with those double-barrel guns. Molly Sarstedt-Hamilton, Townsville, Australia On a beautiful summers day Researching - Sarstedt/Hitchcock/Osborne/Cullen/Pringle/Vargas/Hamilton/Slark/Samworth/Fury/Short/Lawcock/Smith

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Feltham" G'day folks, Have we all had enough of this topic? Lets move on. [snip] ------------------------ All right, Sir John (or as we address our male teachers in India, ''John-sir''), let's indeed move on, before it generates any heat. So far it has been very clement. I think I've got a partial answer, and like Claire, I also suspect I already knew at least some of it. My intention was not to throw in a bone of contention - but to look forward to a healthy debate, because this list is full of erudite AND open-minded folks, who aren't afraid of calling a spade a spade. My sincere thanks to everybody. In passing, here is a link to an excellent article on the English langauge in India --Loyalty and Attitudes, by Annika Hohenthal. [From the e-zine ''LANGUAGE IN INDIA'' Volume 3 : 5 May 2003]. http://www.languageinindia.com/may2003/annika.html -- Harshawardhan (who considers English his second mother tongue)

Dear Listers, If you enter the search string 'Asiatic Journal' in book.google.com, you will see several voluminous journals of years around 1820s and 1830s, all called 'The Asiatic Journal and Monthly Register for British India and Its Dependencies'. All are available in full view and contain, along with other things, Indian Civil and Military Intelligence, BMD in India, dependencies and in Britain, Lists of passengers of ships to and from India, market prices etc. All are downloadable and searchable. Could be of help to some researcher looking for a needle in the haystack... Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, November 26, 2007.

G'day folks, On 26/11/2007, at Monday,Nov26,9:53AM, Arvind Kolhatkar wrote: I cannot stand by without having my two-pennyworth! Its simple. For the reason that we are all human. Why do the Americans call Moscow - Moss-Cow? Why do some Australians say Pap-you-ah New Guinea. Its only 21 miles from Australia and it is correctly pronounced Pah-poo-ah New Guinea. Why is it that the Brits and the Aussies no longer say the word 'the' as 'thee' when the following word starts with a vowel? (Except old buggers like me of course.) - [BTW that is an Australian expression] Example: Thee apple - Thee apricot - thuh house - thee evening - thuh British. And why did Bengalis call motor cars made by Vauxhall in Britain, Wox- alls. When I was in Bengal in the late 1940's and early 1950s, there was a model of Vauxhall, called a Vauxhall Velox, but pronounced "Wox- all Welox" by the Bengalis. Aussies pronounce the word 'our' as "Ow". While I say it with two syllables, "ow-er". Again, we're just human. Its the condition. Have we all had enough of this topic? Lets move on. ooroo Bad typists of the word, untie.

Molly & Co. Yesterday Elona & I went for a walk along the sea wall and up along the pier in Southwold (Suffolk UK) to see how much damage remained from the surge & storm of 2 weeks ago. Nothing to bad and the sands have now risen up to nearly the level the promenade--which will be great for the children should it last. At the end of the pier we met several locals fishing, why anyone would do this is beyond me, we were wrapped up well and still noticed the chill. Suddenly one man realised that he had forgotten his house keys and at 3.45pm would be still out at the end of the pier until midnight and his wife might not be pleased to be woken up that late!!!!! I offered to run him back home to pick the keys up. Now we have lived in Suffolk for over 45 years and can understand most of the dialect words used, and use them ourselves on occasions. This angler however has also lived in Suffolk for the same time but came originally from Gateshead in Co. Durham and his accent and word use was still so distinct and different that Elona, whose family also hail from the same area was having difficulty grasping all that he said; it was however a pleasure to listen to. Perhaps this shows that wherever you are there will be nuances of language that work nicely in their locality but do not travel well. My Father could understand at least 5 Indian Languages and speak 3 fluently and was often called upon to translate in court cases here in England and he did on many occasions act as a "judge" to settle disputes etc. when needed by the growing pre-independence population of Indians working in the Midlands. He usually could identify the home area of a man almost instantly by his accent and word usage. So it's not in the least unusual that there are so many versions of spellings and word usage within the Sub-Continent. Peter D Rogers. Son of the last District Commissioner for the West Midlands <<GGGG>> Family Joke...OK?

G'day Rupert, On 25/11/2007, at Sunday,Nov25,11:53PM, Butler - business and family wrote: <<Sorry - no. You get just the one line, extended if the soldier was captured, injured, died or had something else interesting happen to him. I think you must connect this info to regimental muster rolls etc to make any use of it. You presumably know that there is in the public domain a similar database of WWI medal holders. If he was around long enough he might be on that.>> Thanks for that. What is the URL for the WW! Medal Roll please? ooroo Bad typists of the word, untie.

G'day Rupert, On 25/11/2007, at Sunday,Nov25,11:14PM, Butler - business and family wrote: <Reader G W 3448 Private 14th Hussars: if I understand the conventions of this database, he had bars on his Queen's medal for Cape Colony, OFS, Transvaal, Tugela Heights and Relief of Ladysmith.>> Thanks. Are there any dates for this Reader please/ It would help to identify him. ooroo Bad typists of the word, untie.

To try to answer Harshawardhan's query re learned & not so learned English or us 'mixed plates' not being able to pronounce Hindi/Urdu words correctly, speaking from the experience of observing my grandmother & mother....1. The English & we others didn't make an effort to mix with the local native community, which would have helped no end in learning the vernacular. They only kept to their own communities during work or play. 2. The only real contact with the locals were the shopkeepers, dhobis, door-to-door salesmen, bawarchis, bearers, boys, ayahs, durzis, malis etc; the younger generation of memshaibs automatically picked up what the older ones said & did. 3. My guess is (& I might be wrong) that knowing they would be going 'home' at some time in the not so distant future, they probably thought it was pointless learning a language that they weren't going to use after their stay in India ended. As long as they could get their thoughts or wants or orders across & understood, that was enough. Why the Anglo-Indians or Eurasians followed suit is something I too, don't understand. It was very different for us, born in the 1940's. We were sent to schools, Christian schools, that had many local students. As a result, we picked up the languages Hindi, Urdu & Bengali almost effortlessly. But, I also recall that my grandmother was very much against us children mixing or playing with the local children. She was from the 'old school' and had some very set ideas. Fortunately, my father, having worked in the Calcutta police, then becoming a teacher in Koorji in Patna and finally migrating to East Pakistan after the Partition & having to live among and work with Bengalis, had a broader vision of life & encouraged us to learn the local language & speak it properly ( much to my grandmother's annoyance). I still remember my siblings and I having quite a good few laughs at the expense of the Hindi/Urdu pronunciation of my grandmother & my mother & some of my aunts and uncles as well as other older Anglo-Indians. My 84 year old mother still can't speak Hindi properly although she tends to understand the gist of it if she hears it spoken. I don't know if my simple explanation helps to answer your question in any way Harshawardhan. Just thought I'd give you my thoughts on the subject, for what they're worth. Cheers & God bless Elsie -- "The moving finger writes; and, having Writ, moves on. Nor all your Piety nor Wit shall lure it back to cancel half a line, nor all your Tears wash out a word of it." ..... Omar Khayyam .....