COLONIAL AND CONTEMPORARY TRANSNATIONALISMS Traversing Anglo-Indian Boundaries of the Mind -- a paper written by Lionel Caplan. http://les.man.ac.uk/SA/Transnationalism/caplan.htm ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Here is a very nice old book written by an Indian servant of a gora (white) sahib, with an introduction by Francis Younghusband. Visit http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/ and search for ''Servant Of Sahibs'' by Ghulam Rassul Galwan (1924). Interesting! ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Quote ***Apparently the French were reacting very negatively to reports regarding British atrocities in India (in 1857). The point is that the French were reacting in a similar way to the British decision to burn down the Yuanmingyuan three years later.*** Unquote The Times did not like the French interference and declared so editorially. Here is the editorial in : The Times, dated 20 Nov, 1857. p. 6, b (scanned image) http://ringmar.net/europeanfury/?p=1503 ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Hi Arvind, The word, 'Kannada' (the country not the language) is very much a part of Punjabi folklore. :-) Mandeep ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar@rogers.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:29 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Images of India > Mandeep, > > In the same context as Menaka-Maneka, you will probably remember the > advertisement of Tata Tea. The Punjabi lady in it, disappointed that > there > is not going to be a 'barat' says, 'mai to kane'da vapas jaaoongee' (I > shall > have to return to Canada)... > > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, December 03, 2007. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Some misconceptions about the Indian Armed Forces need correction.There has never been a bar on anyone joining the Armed Forces as officers. Social class has never been a barrier.English is still very much a necessity to becoming an Army officer for the simple reason that the Services do a lot of their work in that language. There is more military literature available in English than in any other language. All over the world that is. As for food most disagreements in Officers Messes under the British were over the need to serve Indian food and the British officers' refusal to oblige their Indian comrades. Mandeep ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar@rogers.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:19 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Images of India > Dear Listers, > > Harshawardhan says: > > <Even our military, which is steeped in British traditions, has relaxed > some > of its rigidity and got ''Indianised'' wherever necessary. But not these > old > clubs at places like Bombay, Calcutta or Bangalore. Their defence I think > is > that they are private bodies.> > > The old guard in Civil Services as also in the Defence forces tried to > keep > to the traditions handed down by the British to the extent they could but > democracy and economic forces have been eating into them and bringing > these > institutions closer to the 'Indian' India. Entry into the Defence Forces > at > the officer level was, till the 60's, restricted to upper class boys from > bigger cities, educated in the English medium. Ditto for IAS and other > higher Civil Services. As the economy expanded, these boys either left > India for the western countries or joined management ranks of > multinationals > and big Indian companies because of better monetary rewards. Their place > was taken by bright boys from smaller towns and vernacular schools and > these > brought their 'Indian' habits with them. As an example, in 1981 I had > occasion to spend a few days in Leh, Ladakh and was staying in the camp of > the Indo-Tibetan Border Police, a para-military outfit. Indian 'ghee' was > a > part of the fare in the mess, something unthinkable till the 60's! Yet, > they still followed the old rule of not allowing women into the mess > except > on guest nights by invitation. > > As probationers in the National Academy of Administration in Mussoorie, we > were taught how to solemnly rise at the end of formal dinners and toast > 'the > President' with orange juice! Our Director was the redoubtable Mr. > Pimputkar, ICS, a member of the old guard and a stickler for timetables > and > rules. I do not think this ritual, so 'British Empire', survives any more > under Directors of later years. > > As to the exclusive clubs, I remember the furor in the 60' when it became > known that the Breach Candy Swimming Club in Bombay would not accept > Indians > as members. Their rules have relaxed since then but even today if an > Indian > wants to be a member there, it helps if he has a foreign connection - a > wife, for example, from one of the rich countries. > > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, December 03, 2007. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Interesting. As an aside the redoubtable youngest of the Gandhi bahus changed her name from Menaka to Maneka upon her marriage since the former means, 'skilled in sex' and moreover is associated with the seductress of sage Vishwamitra and therefore unsuitable for the daughter in law of India's ruling family.Even the blocks used to print pictures of her clad in just a towel for a DCM ad were destroyed. Anyway everybody in Punjab still calls her Menaka so why did she bother ? Mandeep ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar@rogers.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Images of India > Bill, > > <You are so right and I am so glad that India has mostly persevered with > their different styles of clothing> > > I am not sure I can agree with you in this , Bill! > > A lot has changed in India in terms of different styles of clothing. > Surely, at the basic level of peasants, landless or marginal farmers, it > may > be possible to tell the one from South India from another, say, from > another > from Punjab. But the regional diversity ends there. The young, if they > are > from the lumpen class either from the cities or from villagers, all dress > alike, in cheap trousers, denims or of other cloth, and T-shirts/Manilas. > The middle classes all dress alike in trousers and shirts, only the cut > and > the quality distinguishing one economic class from the other, but you > cannot > tell a Tamil from the Bengali merely by looking at the dress. The > headgears, at one time a sure way of telling the regional origin, have > almost disappeared, like the hat in the Western societies. > > I always say in half jest that the best way of telling the origin of an > Indian of the middle class is to listen to his English! For example, the > Gujarati does not know the soft 'ph', for him everything is the strong > spittle-spewing close-lipped 'f'. For the Bihari, 'University' is > 'Unibhersity', the Punjabi imports his mother-tongue habit of shifting the > accent towards the end of the word into his English speech, thus 'phalon > ka > ras' (fruit juice) is 'flon ka ras' and Me'naka Gandhi is Mane'ka Gandhi, > the Maharastrian believes in giving the full value to each letter in the > spelling as he does in his native Marathi, his 'r's, 'd's and 't's are > therefore very strong, the South Indian believes that every letter in the > spelling has to be rendered out loud, thus 'immediately' for him has an > actually audible double m in its rendering... > > The English language with its regional variations surely is a legacy that > the British unwittingly left in India. > > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, December 02, 2007. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Actually the Indian military are the most Indianised institution in the country.The greatest nationalists and the most progressive social force in the country. Mandeep ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar" <bosham@gmail.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2007 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Images of India > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Stabler" > Maureen - Karoo -You are so right and I am so glad that India has mostly > persevered with their different styles of clothing..Pandit Nehru did a > great > service when he chucked all his expensive Saville Row clobber in the bin! > ================================= > > In contrast, here is a true story from Calcutta. About ten or so years > ago the famous (or notorious - depends upon your political views -) > painter M F Hussain was not allowed to enter the Calcutta Club's > premises by the Indian daarwaan (sentry) on duty there because he > was barefoot and as per the Club's rules all males who wish to come > inside MUST wear boots or shoes (not even chappals or sandals). > > Hussain is a modern man, always nattily dressed in designer clothes > - but as a matter of principle, he never ever wears anything on his feet. > (Don't ask me why, I don't know.) > > He had gone there as an invitee to chair some function - but the sentry > was adamant and refused to make any compromise, as he said he was > simply following orders. A thoroughly miffed Hussain walked away > and soon the media was abuzz with all kinds of gossip. The Club's > management said that this was a very old rule, right from the British > days and till then they had never faced a similar situation. They never > thought that a celebrity like Hussain would appear barefoot in public. > > Anti-imperialists had a field day, tempers ran high. Pro and anti-Club > opinions were expressed. But despite receiving all this flack, I don't > think the management was ready to change its ''Pukka Sahib'' image. > Not sure what's the latest position. > > Even our military, which is steeped in British traditions, has relaxed > some > of its rigidity and got ''Indianised'' wherever necessary. But not these > old > clubs at places like Bombay, Calcutta or Bangalore. Their defence I think > is that they are private bodies. > > ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > Nagpur, India > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Arvind: Thanks for updating me on the clothing bit! I was probably basing my thoughts on memories of too long ago. As for the diversity of pronounciation - how anybody ever gets to settle on the pronounciation of English is enigma to me! ...When I first came to Australia I recollect sitting in a pub between an Aussie and a Canadian and having to translate for them as they could not understand each other's English. I had a handyman once from Yorkshire and he vehemently defended his way of saying "book".After all it was look. cook and book the same as it was in boot! My secretary, a sylph like lady, who majored in English for her BA called it "boonting" because (the same) handyman pronounced bunting that way and she had never heard the word before! I dare say it is as 'sir John' says - it is because we are human. ...........Billllll.......!

Does somebody here know about A M Elliot who was sent as envoy in 1778 by the Calcutta-based honchos of the HEIC to the court of the erstwhile king (Raja) of Nagpore? I have some information based on Marathi accounts, but I'd like to read contemporary accounts from English sources. Something from the Hasting papers, perhaps? He later died somewhere in the area that comes under the present-day Chhatisgarh and even today his tomb is maintained at the cost of that state's government - so I have heard. Was it he or his father after whom the Elliot Road in Calcutta is named? ** Slice of England on Elliot Road ** 7 Dec 2002 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/30593297.cms ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Dear Listers, Harshawardhan says: <Even our military, which is steeped in British traditions, has relaxed some of its rigidity and got ''Indianised'' wherever necessary. But not these old clubs at places like Bombay, Calcutta or Bangalore. Their defence I think is that they are private bodies.> The old guard in Civil Services as also in the Defence forces tried to keep to the traditions handed down by the British to the extent they could but democracy and economic forces have been eating into them and bringing these institutions closer to the 'Indian' India. Entry into the Defence Forces at the officer level was, till the 60's, restricted to upper class boys from bigger cities, educated in the English medium. Ditto for IAS and other higher Civil Services. As the economy expanded, these boys either left India for the western countries or joined management ranks of multinationals and big Indian companies because of better monetary rewards. Their place was taken by bright boys from smaller towns and vernacular schools and these brought their 'Indian' habits with them. As an example, in 1981 I had occasion to spend a few days in Leh, Ladakh and was staying in the camp of the Indo-Tibetan Border Police, a para-military outfit. Indian 'ghee' was a part of the fare in the mess, something unthinkable till the 60's! Yet, they still followed the old rule of not allowing women into the mess except on guest nights by invitation. As probationers in the National Academy of Administration in Mussoorie, we were taught how to solemnly rise at the end of formal dinners and toast 'the President' with orange juice! Our Director was the redoubtable Mr. Pimputkar, ICS, a member of the old guard and a stickler for timetables and rules. I do not think this ritual, so 'British Empire', survives any more under Directors of later years. As to the exclusive clubs, I remember the furor in the 60' when it became known that the Breach Candy Swimming Club in Bombay would not accept Indians as members. Their rules have relaxed since then but even today if an Indian wants to be a member there, it helps if he has a foreign connection - a wife, for example, from one of the rich countries. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, December 03, 2007.

Mandeep, In the same context as Menaka-Maneka, you will probably remember the advertisement of Tata Tea. The Punjabi lady in it, disappointed that there is not going to be a 'barat' says, 'mai to kane'da vapas jaaoongee' (I shall have to return to Canada)... Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, December 03, 2007.

Bill, <You are so right and I am so glad that India has mostly persevered with their different styles of clothing> I am not sure I can agree with you in this , Bill! A lot has changed in India in terms of different styles of clothing. Surely, at the basic level of peasants, landless or marginal farmers, it may be possible to tell the one from South India from another, say, from another from Punjab. But the regional diversity ends there. The young, if they are from the lumpen class either from the cities or from villagers, all dress alike, in cheap trousers, denims or of other cloth, and T-shirts/Manilas. The middle classes all dress alike in trousers and shirts, only the cut and the quality distinguishing one economic class from the other, but you cannot tell a Tamil from the Bengali merely by looking at the dress. The headgears, at one time a sure way of telling the regional origin, have almost disappeared, like the hat in the Western societies. I always say in half jest that the best way of telling the origin of an Indian of the middle class is to listen to his English! For example, the Gujarati does not know the soft 'ph', for him everything is the strong spittle-spewing close-lipped 'f'. For the Bihari, 'University' is 'Unibhersity', the Punjabi imports his mother-tongue habit of shifting the accent towards the end of the word into his English speech, thus 'phalon ka ras' (fruit juice) is 'flon ka ras' and Me'naka Gandhi is Mane'ka Gandhi, the Maharastrian believes in giving the full value to each letter in the spelling as he does in his native Marathi, his 'r's, 'd's and 't's are therefore very strong, the South Indian believes that every letter in the spelling has to be rendered out loud, thus 'immediately' for him has an actually audible double m in its rendering... The English language with its regional variations surely is a legacy that the British unwittingly left in India. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, December 02, 2007.

There was certainly a fair bit of gossip about the relationship between Edwina Mountbatten and Mr Nehru and a lot more gossip about Edwina herself. As a child, I remember hearing bits and pieces because in those days, "little children could be seen and not heard" - the manner in which I was brought up. Molly Sarstedt-Hamilton, Townsville, Australia On a beautiful summers day Researching - Sarstedt/Hitchcock/Osborne/Cullen/Pringle/Vargas/Hamilton/Slark/Samworth/Fury/Short/Lawcock/Smith

In our day, the "likes of us" were not even allowed through the front door regardless. Molly Sarstedt-Hamilton, Townsville, Australia On a beautiful summers day Researching - Sarstedt/Hitchcock/Osborne/Cullen/Pringle/Vargas/Hamilton/Slark/Samworth/Fury/Short/Lawcock/Smith

http://www.classicalimages1.com/images/30063.jpg Maureen B

Maureen - Karoo You are so right and I am so glad that India has mostly persevered with their different styles of clothing..Pandit Nehru did a great service when he chucked all his expensive Saville Row clobber in the bin! Now you can still tell the difference between a Madrasi and a Bengali shop keeper merely, as you said Maureen, by looking at their clothing.....After India I spent some time in East Africa and the ethnic differences were not so easily discerned. Mostly because they had taken to the universal khaki shorts and torn shirt. India - God bless her - the most diversifed and yet unified and successful democracy in the world.........Billllll..........!

http://www.hindu.com/yw/2007/06/01/stories/2007060150240800.htm ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

We write like that only: The engaging story of India's embrace of English is glazed with wit and tongue-in-cheek humour, but lacks a nuanced quality. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Book Review dated Sunday, Dec 02, 2007 from http://www.hindu.com/lr/2007/12/02/stories/2007120250140300.htm ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India *** Quote Entry From Backside Only: Hazaar Fundaas* of Indian-English, by Binoo K. John, Penguin India, p.224, Rs.95. [* Thousand ways/tricks/angles] Apart from a few ill-fated attempts by Binoo John to "explain" humour that's self-evident (rather like explaining a punch line), and pat himself on the back when there's no reason to feel insecure, this entertaining swim through the story of Indian-English is a nice way to spend an afternoon with some chai-wai for company. It is replete with gems mined from the colonial period, ranging from the ridiculous to the sublimely funny. Advertisements of quacks and legitimate sellers, letters to the editor and dialogues from cinema, all allow John to traverse a 'literary' landscape strewn with blunders in grammar, spelling, capitalisation, punctuation, malapropisms and inappropriate idioms. A smaller serving with crisper editing would have been just right. One is educated and frequently amused by this use, or rather, misuse of the language. However, the tone is never condescending. John's sensibility comes from knowing that it isn't easy to fathom the illogic of English. But today, colours, flavours, textures and sounds that imbue Indian languages with an onomatopoeic quality make Indian-English inimitable, robust and quirky - just the way we are! Advertising bears this out. From gullies to highways, roadside shops to mega malls, it flaunts itself. This mongrel child or hybrid language has been adopted by Booker Prize winners and celebrated in everyday communication too. Sociology of language How did it all happen? The author tells us what we know; that we were saddled with English, thanks to Macaulay's insidious plans to create ".interpreters .and Indians in blood and colour but English in taste, in opinion, in words and in intellect". But insightfully notes that Indians "yearned" to take to all things British, including English, for reasons of credibility and upward mobility. He looks at the phenomenal growth of English teaching institutes and the rapidly selling Rapidex*, to explore how and why English continues to be a vehicle to fulfil aspirations. [*quick English-study book] Since we speak more than 30-odd languages, it's surprising that John hasn't ploughed a bit deeper into the reasons behind why we speak and write the way we do or how we grapple with the habit of thinking in our mother tongue while expressing ourselves in English. Something he could do in a reprint! What he needs to get rid of then would be the typos. The editors have let Seshagiri go as Seshagir and classics as classis (pp. 140, 156). Absorbign section In an absorbing last quarter, the book looks at how the tables turned, how all things Indian fascinated the British! Glossaries such as Hanklyn-Janklyn and Hobson-Jobson compiled Indian-English words and expressions. Then came ingenious wordsmiths such as Desani, Rushdie and Arundhati Roy at a time when English was becoming inadequate to capture the Indian experience. They began to reshape and free English by taking all kinds of liberties and readers were in thrall - of their uninhibited use of language. Fruitful John's fundas are convincing enough to prove that this sub-genre, having imbibed socio-cultural trends, is now a confident linguistic entity, a stand-alone. As I was typing this piece, a rhythmic rendition in English, of "Welcome to the heart of incredible India", a television ad-campaign, was playing. I had heard the Hindi version on a few occasions ("Hindustan ka dil dekho"). Brilliantly translated, it was pure Indian-English of the heartland kind, capturing the lilt and rhythm without losing any of the charm and impact of the original. We are playing with Macaulay's bhasha* [*language] and loving it! *** Unquote An interview with the author Binoo K. John here : http://www.hindu.com/mag/2007/12/02/stories/2007120250060300.htm

The Last Durbar: A Dramatic Presentation of the Division of British India, Shashi Joshi, Lotus, Rs. 295. Book Review by ANITA JOSHUA at http://www.hindu.com/lr/2007/12/02/stories/2007120250200200.htm Sunday, Dec 02, 2007 *** Quote Another book on Partition! Indeed, but, pardon the cliché, with a difference. Working on the premise that the continued dissatisfaction with the answers provided by scholars to complex questions regarding Partition is testimony to the fact that "the narrative mode of history writing cannot reflect the simultaneity and multiplicity of perpetually shifting positions and accents", Shashi Joshi has dramatised the last days of the Raj. Academics might find fault with her choice of medium but if history can be made more readable then so be it. Joshi's work, in her own words, is not a play meant for the stage but a "dialogical history" - history in dialogue form for the uninitiated. Culling out relevant portions from the Mountbatten Papers, besides biographies and memoirs of key characters of Partition, Joshi has turned the reference material into dialogues and set them into sets and scenes; 59 in all. Into the tense moments as the sun set on the British Empire to mayhem and bloodshed, Joshi brings in the personal - the special relationship that the Mountbattens, particularly Edwina, had with Nehru - besides some asides like journalists' banter at a watering hole. Presented in this form, the tall leaders of the times - on whom history has thrust greatness - come across as human beings allowed their fair share of follies. Whether her treatment of the subject clears the muddle around Partition is a moot point but it does pique interest in a subject that has been written about once too often. And, it provides some interesting, if irrelevant-to-the-course-of-history, details like the fact that Mountbatten took away the entire stock of wine in the Viceregal House on his departure and foreign embassies were seen as a good market for vegetables grown in what was soon to become Rashtrapati Bhavan! *** Unquote ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Stabler" Maureen - Karoo -You are so right and I am so glad that India has mostly persevered with their different styles of clothing..Pandit Nehru did a great service when he chucked all his expensive Saville Row clobber in the bin! ================================= In contrast, here is a true story from Calcutta. About ten or so years ago the famous (or notorious - depends upon your political views -) painter M F Hussain was not allowed to enter the Calcutta Club's premises by the Indian daarwaan (sentry) on duty there because he was barefoot and as per the Club's rules all males who wish to come inside MUST wear boots or shoes (not even chappals or sandals). Hussain is a modern man, always nattily dressed in designer clothes - but as a matter of principle, he never ever wears anything on his feet. (Don't ask me why, I don't know.) He had gone there as an invitee to chair some function - but the sentry was adamant and refused to make any compromise, as he said he was simply following orders. A thoroughly miffed Hussain walked away and soon the media was abuzz with all kinds of gossip. The Club's management said that this was a very old rule, right from the British days and till then they had never faced a similar situation. They never thought that a celebrity like Hussain would appear barefoot in public. Anti-imperialists had a field day, tempers ran high. Pro and anti-Club opinions were expressed. But despite receiving all this flack, I don't think the management was ready to change its ''Pukka Sahib'' image. Not sure what's the latest position. Even our military, which is steeped in British traditions, has relaxed some of its rigidity and got ''Indianised'' wherever necessary. But not these old clubs at places like Bombay, Calcutta or Bangalore. Their defence I think is that they are private bodies. ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India