G'day folks, Selwyn is not a member of the Raj List. Please direct all answers to his email address. Thanks. Begin forwarded message: From: Selwyn Stanley <selwyn.stanley@plymouth.ac.uk> Date: 15 May 2008 1:21:48 AM To: "INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-L@rootsweb.com" <INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ- L@rootsweb.com> Subject: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] The AI community Reply-To: india-british-raj@rootsweb.com Hello, I am from south India (though not AI) and have moved to the UOP barely a year ago. I am trying to formulate a project to look at AI's in the UK from the stand point of migration experiences, social integration, quality of life etc..but have not yet crystallised the idea (perhaps you could help with ideas). I am trying to formulate a similar idea for this community back in India. At present I want to develop a proposal and put it across for funding (perhaps Rowantree, Nuffieldetc) or if you have any suggestions on this, that would be helpful. If you could also lead me on to these families for the purpose of accessing data that would be fantastic. BW Selwyn Stanley, Ph.D. C-403, Portland Sq. Bldng. School of Psychosocial Studies Faculty of Health & Social Work Univ. of Plymouth PL4 8AA Ph: 01752-233898 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

Many books related to British India for sale here: http://www.dking.co.uk/home/all.htm This is just FYI. ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Hi david Go to rootschat.com register for free, section titled "photograph restoration" post your queery and your photo and if you ask nicely some of the absolute brilliant restoreres will give it some colour also. Tis worth doing it's a brilliant site Dick On 15/05/2008, David Railton <railton.david@btinternet.com> wrote: > > Is there anyone on the list with any expertise in dating photos from ladies > dress styles? I have 2 photos taken in India of ladies in long black > dresses. I suspect that could have been taken up to 50 years apart but > really don't know. > > If anyone thinks that they can help me with this please contact me and I > will attach the photos to an email sent off-list. > > David > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Dear Listers, In a book published in 1878 called 'A Memoir of Indian Surveys' by Clements R. Markham http://www.archive.org/details/memoirontheindia025502mbp, I came across an chapter (from p. 384 onwards) that narrates efforts of several experts to device a satisfactory system to render Indian names of persons, towns, villages, rivers etc. into the Roman script. Diverse systems were in use till Dr Hunter's system received Government's approval in 1870 and, after that, some standardization came about in this chaotic field. The Hunterian system abolished Scinde, Scind, Scindh, Sindh and Sinde and replaced them with Sind. It did away with Oude and Avadh and approved Oudh. It replaced Cawnpore, Khanpur and Kanhpur with Cawnpur. The post-1947 Government had even less difficulty in understanding and pronouncing Indian names and has brought them much closer to the original. Sind is now Sindh, Cawnpur is Kanpur and Oudh has gone back to being avadh. Poona is Pune, Mumbai is restored in place of Bombay and so on. The pendulum is now swinging towards the other extreme. Maharashtra Navnirman Sena (translation- Army for Regeneration of Maharashtra), an offshoot of Shiv Sena that came into being to champion the cause of the Marathi people and has to show that it surpasses its parent, is now on warpath demanding replacement of Bombay from the names of the BSE (Bombay Stock Exchange) and the major industrial conglomerate Bombay Dyeing. The argument that these commercial names have value and goodwill attached to them cuts no ice with these warriors. A few days ago they blackened the name-board of the Bombay Scottish Mission's Secondary School for the reason that it contained the word Bombay. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, May 15, 2008.

Is there anyone on the list with any expertise in dating photos from ladies dress styles? I have 2 photos taken in India of ladies in long black dresses. I suspect that could have been taken up to 50 years apart but really don't know. If anyone thinks that they can help me with this please contact me and I will attach the photos to an email sent off-list. David

Dear Selwyn, As far as I am cocerned, people are people regardless of their ancestors or skin colour, and anyway I believe it's nurture not nature which plays the greater part in a person's upbringing and eventual character. Remember; - the era of 'Toffee-nosed, snobbish Bfits' is well and truly over. Praise be, Read the chapter ''Who are the Anglo-Indians'; in my book, 'Under The Old School Topee' which reiterates this belief fairly strongly! Salaamw 'n' samosas from Hazel Craig.

Wednesday, May 14, 2008 **** It looks like Beyonce's not the only star whose mom has an eye for fashion. While Tina Knowles is famous for designing her daughter's costumes, actress Jennifer Ehle credits her mother with her finished look for the movie "Before the Rains," which opens Friday. The romantic drama, set in 1937, takes place in India just as the sun was setting on the British Empire. Ehle, who plays a betrayed colonial wife, had a special connection to the country. "What intrigued me was that my grandmother was in India just before this time. My grandfather was in the RAF (the Royal Air Force) and my mother actually spent her first six years in India." Ehle's mother is the award-winning Rosemary Harris, best known to audiences today as Spider-Man's Aunt May Parker. Harris joined her daughter, son-in-law Michael Ryan and 4-year-old grandson, George, on location. "It was the first time that she'd been back to India since she was 6. So it was very exciting, and since I never knew my grandmother it was wonderful to be able to ask my mother questions." Ehle, 38, had been given costume sketches that looked like proper dress for London ladies, not colonial wives in a steamy climate. So Ehle asked her mother what her grandmother wore then. Harris drew "A little picture of the dresses that used to be made by Indian tailors for the British women there. These were dresses that had to laundered." One picture stood out. Her mother described the fabric in detail, then Ehle photographed it and e-mailed the sketch to her producer. "When I arrived there were these three dresses that were made of the exact fabric that my grandmother's dresses used to be made from. It's still the fabric that they would use. So those are the dresses that I wear in the film." **** http://news.bostonherald.com/entertainment/movies/general/view.bg?articleid=1093814&srvc=home&position=recent Also see: http://www.eastbayexpress.com/movies/just_passing_through/Content?oid=726336 ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

What ho! A dashed swindler! A credit-grabber imposturing like billy-o!! A scheming, shameless, sham shyster of a landlubber posing as seaman. If I were Capt. Haddock of the famous Tintin comics, I'd have cursed him lustily, using the rich argot of a seasoned bo'sun or mate. Being a landlubber myself, I have to go back to my Wodehouse books to pick up these epithets. (GRIN) Thanks, John, for this clarification. Harshawardhan ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Feltham" Begin forwarded message:From: RobertsonJC1@cs.com The guy that wrote the story of the ROHNA's sinking wasn't even there. His brother died in that sinking. I attended a survivor's reunion in Charleston three years ago and met the jerk who wrote the concoctted story. When I challenged him about the authenticity of his sources of information, he quickly got the hell out of the room when I told him that I represented the BI. [snip]

Hello, I am from south India (though not AI) and have moved to the UOP barely a year ago. I am trying to formulate a project to look at AI's in the UK from the stand point of migration experiences, social integration, quality of life etc..but have not yet crystallised the idea (perhaps you could help with ideas). I am trying to formulate a similar idea for this community back in India. At present I want to develop a proposal and put it across for funding (perhaps Rowantree, Nuffieldetc) or if you have any suggestions on this, that would be helpful. If you could also lead me on to these families for the purpose of accessing data that would be fantastic. BW Selwyn Stanley, Ph.D. C-403, Portland Sq. Bldng. School of Psychosocial Studies Faculty of Health & Social Work Univ. of Plymouth PL4 8AA Ph: 01752-233898

Begin forwarded message: From: RobertsonJC1@cs.com Date: 14 May 2008 1:03:45 PM To: BIship@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [BIship] Fwd: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Sinking of the "Rohna"- A virtually unk... Reply-To: BIship@yahoogroups.com Correct, the ROHNA was not the first victim of the guided bomb. When Italy capitulated, the Italian navy had a battleship that the Germans did not want for it to be turned against them. This battleship was the first ship to be sunk with the guided bomb. The guy that wrote the story of the ROHNA's sinking wasn't even there. His brother died in that sinking. I attended a survivor's reunion in Charleston three years ago and met the jerk who wrote the concoctted story. When I challenged him about the authenticity of his sources of information, he quickly got the hell out of the room when I told him that I represented the BI. Some of the survivors spoke very highly of the conduct of the BI crew members and pinned most of the blame on their US Army officers as they hadn't a clue on what to do; hence the high number of casualities. About five years ago, the US Government finally recognized the sinking and erected a memorial to those who lost their lives at an Army post in, I think, Georgia. I have copies of the ship's articles and a list of all of the BI personnel who died. Best regards, John R. (USA and Dalry) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1)Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Members Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Visit Your Group Yahoo! Search Find it now Everything you need in one place. New web site? Drive traffic now. Get your business on Yahoo! search. All-Bran Day 10 Club on Yahoo! Groups Feel better with fiber. . __,_._,___ ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

Dear Molly, Thanks a million for your long and patient email, and my sincere apologies in being able to respond. Ever since I embarked upon this research, I have been inundated with stories, and sucked into a fascinating journey. You are absolutely correct- we're completely on the same page. I have also read some of the corresondence between you and Pat on a web forum. (Have been reading up many, so cant remember exactly which one it is, right now.) This is exactly what makes my research as difficult and fascinating. I have noted all of these problems in being able to find the 'right' story- but I am so sure that it can make for a powerful documentary. In fact, the trouble is also that most Hindus and Muslims are bunched up as 'Indians' and considering I am looking to excavate Hindu record keeping at unique sites in India, this is a small limitation of my research. Yet, I wish to use the records as a launching point into telling an engaging anglo Indian story, and am still looking for a person who might be interested in follwoing his roots back into India. Will you be able to suggest me a few leads? Do you know of any such people? This is for a commissioned film, so the expenses are on us. You help will be a huge boost to my research. I have always followed William's work with great interest. And I am also intrigued to know that he also has some Indian links in his ancestory, even though through the Muslims. Shall stay in touch with you on this. Warm Regards, and many thanks for sparing the time.. Shirley. On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:45 PM, <l_ehamilton@iprimus.com.au> wrote: > Hello Shirley, > > You said: > > My research is to look for > > somebody with a 'mixed' background- preferably a Britisher with some > > Indian > > Hindu connect, as this will lend a certain sense of historical > > significance > > to his/her search. > > Speaking as an Anglo Indian myself I understand very well your complex > question and "complex" it is given the past history or us Anglo Indians. > The hidden factor arises in that the majority of us Anglo Indians do not > and > will never know our "Indian" heritage. While we cannot deny our "Indian" > heritage, a point (to this day) which many do deny, the politics governing > the 17th and 18th century left our ancestors with little option but to > deny > this fact and therefore, any intermarriage was kept so well hidden. > > For us to really understand the politics that then existed we ourselves > need > to understand the politics and culture that our ancestors lived under at > the time. There was undeniable severe prejudice on both sides which is a > well recorded historial fact. In order to be socially acceptable there > could not be any admittance to having Indian ancestry, whether Hindu or > Muslim. In the event where a British male married or co-habited with > either > a Hindu or Muslim female, regardless of the female's social standing, she > was in most instances, disinherited by her own family. Having said that, > the British male who married or co-habited with an "Indian" female > likewise > suffered the same fate within the social standing of his community. In > many > instances, the female was converted to Christianity and adopted a > Christian > name resulting in her name being a Christian one entered on her childrens' > Baptism Certificates. > > I use the word "British" because I can only speak through experience about > the British, as my and my husband's ancestors were of British descent. > > The Anglo Indians community have all been "lumped" into one basket the > result being that every country who played a part in the colonization of > India and who therefore now have descendants of "mixed race" are now, all > classified as Anglo Indians i.e. French, Dutch and Portuguese. The only > way > Anglo Indians of "European" descent can specifically be identified is by > their surnames. We are of various colours, ranging from "white, blue-eyed > and blond" to extremely "dark complexioned" and frequently all in the same > family so colour, is not a significant factor. > > The world renowned author William Dalrymple in his book, "White Moguls" > gives an in-depth insight into this complex subject. May I suggest you > read > his book which explains in detail the "why's" and "wherefore's" and which > may assist you in your research. > > I wish you every success in your documentary Shirley. Should you wish to > contact me please do so. > > I hope I have not offended any Listers as it is not my intention to do so. > > With best wishes > > Molly Sarstedt-Hamilton, Townsville, Australia > Researching - > > Sarstedt/Hitchcock/Osborne/Cullen/Pringle/Vargas/Hamilton/Slark/Samworth/Fury/Short/Lawcock/Smith > Beautiful autumn weather at present > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

From Wikipedia..... The HMT Rohna was not the first casualty of a guided missile, however, as the British HMS Egret (L75) was sunk with the loss of 194 men on August 25 the same year by a Henschel Hs 293. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

G'day folks, On 14/05/2008, at 2:39 AM, Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar wrote: > Sinking of the "Rohna"-A virtually unknown WWII tragedy The "Rohna" was a British India Shipping Navigation Company vessel. Recently there have been programs on TV programs which were not very complimentary to the crew of the vessel during this action. BISN Veterans have been in correspondence with the producers of these programs to argue against the TV producers accounts of the sinking and subsequent events. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

Further to this interesting article, should anyone wish to research WW2 convoys, including those to India, there is a fine site based on original research by the noted naval historian (of WW2) Arnold Hague, now sadly deceased: http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/hague/index.html Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar" <bosham@gmail.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Sinking of the "Rohna"- A virtually unknownWWII tragedy > Sinking of the "Rohna"-A virtually unknown WWII tragedy > > Few people have ever heard about the sinking of the Rohna, or the 1,105 > American soldiers who died in the worst at-sea disaster in U.S. history. > > But Charles "Dutch" Beard, a retiree from the U.S. Army Corps of > Engineers, > has not forgotten. He was on the Rohna when a German guided missile > sank her during World War II. > > The HMT (Her Majesty's Transport) Rohna was a dilapidated old British > merchant vessel converted to troopship. She sailed from Oran, Algeria, > bound for Bombay, India, carrying 1,981 U.S. soldiers, including Beard, > a young lieutenant in the 853rd Aviation Battalion. The Rohna also > carried seven Red Cross personnel, and 195 Indian crewmen and British > officers. > > The Rohna was part of convoy KMF-26. On Nov. 26, 1943, about 30 > Luftwaffe bombers attacked the convoy. Several of the Hinkel 177 > long-range bombers carried two Hs293 remote-controlled glider bombs, > one under each wing. The Hs293 was, in effect, the first air-launched > cruise missile. A rocket engine launched the bomb away from the > bomber, then it glided toward its target under remote (radio) control. > One of these weapons struck the Rohna on its port side just above the > waterline, the first successful war-strike by such a weapon. [snip] > >>From - November 2000 Engineer > Full text at - http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/nov00/story6.htm > > ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar > Nagpur, India > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1430 - Release Date: > 13/05/2008 07:31 > >

Sinking of the "Rohna"-A virtually unknown WWII tragedy Few people have ever heard about the sinking of the Rohna, or the 1,105 American soldiers who died in the worst at-sea disaster in U.S. history. But Charles "Dutch" Beard, a retiree from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, has not forgotten. He was on the Rohna when a German guided missile sank her during World War II. The HMT (Her Majesty's Transport) Rohna was a dilapidated old British merchant vessel converted to troopship. She sailed from Oran, Algeria, bound for Bombay, India, carrying 1,981 U.S. soldiers, including Beard, a young lieutenant in the 853rd Aviation Battalion. The Rohna also carried seven Red Cross personnel, and 195 Indian crewmen and British officers. The Rohna was part of convoy KMF-26. On Nov. 26, 1943, about 30 Luftwaffe bombers attacked the convoy. Several of the Hinkel 177 long-range bombers carried two Hs293 remote-controlled glider bombs, one under each wing. The Hs293 was, in effect, the first air-launched cruise missile. A rocket engine launched the bomb away from the bomber, then it glided toward its target under remote (radio) control. One of these weapons struck the Rohna on its port side just above the waterline, the first successful war-strike by such a weapon. [snip] >From - November 2000 Engineer Full text at - http://www.hq.usace.army.mil/cepa/pubs/nov00/story6.htm ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Worth a read. http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080512/NEWS01/805120310/1002 or http://tinyurl.com/5dv7xg ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

From the Queen's Royal Lancer's Website: Goodbye to my England, So long my old friend Your days are numbered, being brought to an end To be Scottish, Irish or Welsh that's fine But don't say you're English, that's way out of line. The French and the Germans may call themselves such May Norwegians, the Swedes and the Dutch You can say you are Russian or maybe a Dane But don't say you're English ever again. At Broadcasting House the word is taboo In Brussels its Scrapped, in Parliament too Even schools are affected, staff do as they're told They must not teach children about England of old. Writers like Shakespeare, Milton and Shaw The pupils do not learn about them anymore How about Agincourt, Hastings , Arnhem or Mons When England lost hosts of her very brave sons. We are not Europeans, how can we be? Europe is miles away over the sea We're the English from England, let's all be proud Stand up and be counted- Shout it out loud. Let's tell our Government and Brussels too We're proud of our heritage and the Red, White and Blue Fly the flag of Saint George or the Union Jack Let the world know - we want OUR ENGLAND BACK !!!! ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

And what are our good American friends going to do with Arkansas and Connecticut??

Snipped from The New York Times, July 17, 1904, Sunday UNCLE SAM'S NEW SPELLING BOOK; Teachers, Scholars, and Mapmakers Will Have a Lot to Relearn 2769 words (pdf) **** In a manner so quiet that very few persons have ever heard of it, Uncle Sam has been conducting a small but very select spelling school for some time, and has issued several Installments of a new spelling book that will greatly disturb teachers, scholars, map-makers, and a host of other people who would ordinarily be champions in any spelling bee. The prime object is to secure uniformity in the spelling of geographical names in all Government publications. A board sitting in "Washington takes up all place-names of more than one form that may be submitted to it, applies to them a code of rules form-| ulated for the purpose, and then votes on the forms suggested by the members. The form receiving a majority vote becomes the official one, and, under the act of Congress creating the board, will thereafter be used in all Government publications, including maps. To effect the desired reform, the board proceeds under the following rules: ........ << Chinese and other Oriental place-names heretofore compounded are spelled as one word, viz.: Hoangho (river, China.) not Hoang-Ho, Liaotung (peninsula,) not Liao-Tung; Niuchwang (treaty port,) not New-Chwang. In British Indian terminology "pur" has taken the place of "poor" and "pore," viz.: Cawnpur, not Cawnpoor or Cawnpore. >> **** Full text here: http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9B0DE6DB1F3AE733A25754C1A9619C946597D6CF&oref=slogin ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

John My suster in law who lived in Park Circus would like a copy of the picture Her email is lucille.tristram@btinternet.com Many thanks Noel ----- Original Message ---- From: John Feltham <wulguru.wantok@gmail.com> To: karoo <karoo@highway1.com.au>; india-british-raj@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, 7 May, 2008 4:02:16 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Park Mansions G'day Sally, On 07/05/2008, at 8:02 PM, karoo wrote: <<I have a photograph of Park Mansions taken 1980 if anyone would like me to email a scanned copy.>> Yes please Sally. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________________________________________________________ Sent from Yahoo! Mail. A Smarter Email http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html