Just as a matter of interest - the Queen Victoria Markets in Melbourne is built on a very old cemetery. There is no sight of any graves at all however, I heard that at the break of dawn when the stall holders are putting up their stalls, many of them have had "sightings" of some those long departed making their way to different sections of the blank space at the back of the market. In my young days Cemeteries were sacred places but I guess as time goes on, communities and circumstances change and new comers to the area have no knowledge or understandably, little interest. I feel that a walk through an old cemetery gives one an insight into the past of a town and is so very interesting. I have heard "first hand" of an occasion when my friend's uncle had a rather harrowing experience. He rode his bicycle home from work during the early hours of the morning and he had no choice but to ride through Park Street which vended it's way between the South Park and French cemeteries on either side, both of which had been closed for many many years. He was literally "chased" home this particular night by something or someone he couldn't see. Fortunately he lived quite near by and so raced home in an awful fright. >From then onwards he avoided that route home at night. It was a section of Park Street that was always very dark, even on the sunniest of days, the sun never seemed to peep through the tall trees on either side and it certainly gave one a rather errie feeling even during the day. Molly Sarstedt-Hamilton, Townsville, Australia Researching - Sarstedt/Hitchcock/Osborne/Cullen/Pringle/Vargas/Hamilton/Slark/Samworth/Fury/Short/Lawcock/Smith Beautiful autumn weather at present

I am not sure if this has appeared here before: 'Preserve these little pockets of history' 19/03/2007 The Duke of Edinburgh is backing a new charity to care for crumbling British cemeteries across the world. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?xml=/portal/2007/03/19/nosplit/ftgraves119.xml ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India <<<< It's worth writing to BACSA (London) with a description of what one has seen/found in one location or another. At the very least, BACSA has financed considerable transcription and overhauls of several large cemeteries, NB Agra and Jhansi. Otherwise, we can expect to see further marble cherubs and whatnot incorporated into new walls/gates. --- Megan S. Mills

Thanks to Janice Sellars I have been searching some on line indices of the British Library. I have come across a reference to a name, Capt. Renny-Tailyour, who will be a connection of mine. The problem being that it could refer to two or three different Renny-Tailyours who served in India and Burma, (one of these played both Rugger and Association Football for Scotland against England, as well as playing cricket for Kent and 'The Gentlemen' against 'The Players').. No dates are mentioned, the only clue being that he partook in the "Wild Wa Expedition". The Wild Wa has passed me by, does anyone know where or when this occurred, and what it's purpose might have been? Yours Aye Andrew Sellon

It's sad to think of the graves disappearing, but it isn't confined to India. Here in Oz, there are many old pioneer cemeteries which went under as Sydney expanded. I suspect that in the early days of the colony here, the problem was much the same as that in India, i.e. there simply weren't enough resources available to properly care for the living, let alone the dead. Then, of course, we have funds in India being channelled into the nuke program &ca. I'm guessing that they aren't all that bothered with graves given the huge population &ca. Meanwhile, is there a possibility of people in the West, whose ancestors are buried in India, clubbing together to raise funds to tidy up the cemeteries? But having said that, perhaps the greatest memorial to our European ancestors in India, would be for those funds to be channelled instead, towards improving the lot of the poverty-stricken ones left behind in India??? The future for some of them is looking pretty bleak, folks. And I'm sure that charities such as CAISS (Calcutta), Smile Cares (Chennai), or CTR (pan-India) would be eternally grateful for any help at all. Okay, guys, I'll hop off my soapbox now!! :)) Cheers, Lynne. :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar@rogers.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:58 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Neglected graves > Dear Listers, > > On the subject of graves, let me put down what I know from personal > experience. > > In my hometown of Satara, there is a graveyard, properly walled and gated, > which contained several British graves of the early 19th century, when > there > used be sizable British military presence in Satara. (The military was > later withdrawn from Satara, leaving a number of standing bungalows in the > area that is called Satara Cantonment even today, though there has not > been > anything like a real cantonment for more than a century.) > > I had, out of curiosity, visited the graves a couple of times several > decades ago. At that time, many graves were standing in good repair and > the > headstones could be read. I remember one in particular of a young > lieutenant who drowned in the river Venna. (This is a small river of > about > 30 miles length that rises in the Mahabaleshwar Hills and joins the bigger > Krishna just outside Satara. I was surprised that it could drown anyone!) > > I paid a visit to the same site last year. The surrounding wall and the > gate still stand and the site is supposed to be under the charge of the > Police department. Of the graves, only blocks of masonry remain. Almost > all headstones have disappeared. I could read only two: > > To the memory of James Arthur Lester, died 25th September 1851, aged 6 > months and 10 days > Sacred to the memory of Captain Henry ---nson 25th Regiment---who died > at---aum on the 15th October 1839. Aged ---years. This tomb is erected > by > his brother officers. > > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, May 18, 2008. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: > 5/12/2008 7:44 AM >

G'day Idris, On 18/05/2008, at 4:28 PM, IdrisAttarwala wrote: > How much is that in British Pounds? UKP 6.01 or USD 11.76 or A$ 12.30 ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

I am sending this note to as many Anglo Indian contacts as I can find. I hope you can help. I am trying to trace the Anglo-Indian part of my family, of which I am very proud. They were living in and around Madras at the start of the 20th century. The details I have are as follows: Martin EDWARDS married ??, children: 1. Grace Lillian Edwards (my grandmother) born July 15 1906 in Madras. I have photos of her. 2. James Edwards (was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Indian Army Medical Corps in WW2. He was a surgeon.) I have his photo. 3. Not sure if there were others. Family story is that Grace was former head girl of Madras University or a girls' college - not sure if that was the case. She definitely had a brother, James who was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Indian Army Medical Corps in WW2. He was a surgeon. I believe that the Edwards were an Anglo-Indian family. Grace Lillian EDWARDS (born July 15 1906 in Madras) married Joseph Collins in Trinity Chapel, Park Town, Madras on February 28 1927. Joseph was serving with 2nd Battalion Lancashire Fusiliers, stationed in Calicut. Children: 1. James Joseph Edwards Collins (born in Fort St George Madras on April 29, 1927. He died in Bolton, Lancashire on April 30, 2003.) He was my father. 2. Phyllis Elaine Collins (born in Wellington, India on April 27, 1929.) 3. Other children were born subsequently in the UK. Anything you can add would be much appreciated. Thanks for reading my note. Vince Collins 40 The Leys Long Buckby Northants NN6 7YF England

It's worth writing to BACSA (London) with a description of what one has seen/found in one location or another. At the very least, BACSA has financed considerable transcription and overhauls of several large cemeteries, NB Agra and Jhansi. Otherwise, we can expect to see further marble cherubs and whatnot incorporated into new walls/gates. cheers, MeganMegan S. Mills PHD198 St Helen'sToronto CDA M6H 4A1 > From: lynnehadley1@bigpond.com> To: india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 06:07:18 +1000> Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Neglected graves> > It's sad to think of the graves disappearing, but it isn't confined to > India. Here in Oz, there are many old pioneer cemeteries which went under > as Sydney expanded. I suspect that in the early days of the colony here, > the problem was much the same as that in India, i.e. there simply weren't > enough resources available to properly care for the living, let alone the > dead. Then, of course, we have funds in India being channelled into the > nuke program &ca. I'm guessing that they aren't all that bothered with > graves given the huge population &ca. Meanwhile, is there a possibility of > people in the West, whose ancestors are buried in India, clubbing together > to raise funds to tidy up the cemeteries? But having said that, perhaps the > greatest memorial to our European ancestors in India, would be for those > funds to be channelled instead, towards improving the lot of the > poverty-stricken ones left behind in India??? The future for some of them > is looking pretty bleak, folks. And I'm sure that charities such as CAISS > (Calcutta), Smile Cares (Chennai), or CTR (pan-India) would be eternally > grateful for any help at all. Okay, guys, I'll hop off my soapbox now!! > :)) Cheers, Lynne. :))> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar@rogers.com>> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com>> Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 2:58 AM> Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Neglected graves> > > > Dear Listers,> >> > On the subject of graves, let me put down what I know from personal> > experience.> >> > In my hometown of Satara, there is a graveyard, properly walled and gated,> > which contained several British graves of the early 19th century, when > > there> > used be sizable British military presence in Satara. (The military was> > later withdrawn from Satara, leaving a number of standing bungalows in the> > area that is called Satara Cantonment even today, though there has not > > been> > anything like a real cantonment for more than a century.)> >> > I had, out of curiosity, visited the graves a couple of times several> > decades ago. At that time, many graves were standing in good repair and > > the> > headstones could be read. I remember one in particular of a young> > lieutenant who drowned in the river Venna. (This is a small river of > > about> > 30 miles length that rises in the Mahabaleshwar Hills and joins the bigger> > Krishna just outside Satara. I was surprised that it could drown anyone!)> >> > I paid a visit to the same site last year. The surrounding wall and the> > gate still stand and the site is supposed to be under the charge of the> > Police department. Of the graves, only blocks of masonry remain. Almost> > all headstones have disappeared. I could read only two:> >> > To the memory of James Arthur Lester, died 25th September 1851, aged 6> > months and 10 days> > Sacred to the memory of Captain Henry ---nson 25th Regiment---who died> > at---aum on the 15th October 1839. Aged ---years. This tomb is erected > > by> > his brother officers.> >> > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, May 18, 2008.> >> >> > -------------------------------> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message> >> >> > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message.> > Checked by AVG.> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.16/1428 - Release Date: > > 5/12/2008 7:44 AM> > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message> >

Dear Listers, On the subject of graves, let me put down what I know from personal experience. In my hometown of Satara, there is a graveyard, properly walled and gated, which contained several British graves of the early 19th century, when there used be sizable British military presence in Satara. (The military was later withdrawn from Satara, leaving a number of standing bungalows in the area that is called Satara Cantonment even today, though there has not been anything like a real cantonment for more than a century.) I had, out of curiosity, visited the graves a couple of times several decades ago. At that time, many graves were standing in good repair and the headstones could be read. I remember one in particular of a young lieutenant who drowned in the river Venna. (This is a small river of about 30 miles length that rises in the Mahabaleshwar Hills and joins the bigger Krishna just outside Satara. I was surprised that it could drown anyone!) I paid a visit to the same site last year. The surrounding wall and the gate still stand and the site is supposed to be under the charge of the Police department. Of the graves, only blocks of masonry remain. Almost all headstones have disappeared. I could read only two: To the memory of James Arthur Lester, died 25th September 1851, aged 6 months and 10 days Sacred to the memory of Captain Henry ---nson 25th Regiment---who died at---aum on the 15th October 1839. Aged ---years. This tomb is erected by his brother officers. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, May 18, 2008.

<<<< "Till sometime back, the British High Commission used to send us a cheque for Rs 500 for the upkeep of the graves every year. >>>> Rs 500 --How much is that in British Pounds? I can understand the central and local governments in India paying a pittance. But if the British government is doing the same, they must be from the same stock. - Idris Attarwala ==================================================== Idrisbhai, I heard of this only last month. A nice couple from New Zealand was here in Nagpur in late April and sought my help to visit the old Anglican cemetery at Kamptee, now a suburb of Nagpur, and at one time a very important army cantonment. The great grandfather of the gentleman from NZ was buried there in 1858. With the help of an extremely nice and energetic old priest, aged 83, who was in charge of the local church, we managed to make a long tour of the now-sadly neglected and much vandalised graveyard. During the course of our discussion, the old boy told us that lack of funds was one of the major reasons why cemeteries such as the one we had gone to at that time, could not be preserved and protected. Then he told us that besides some small local donations, all that he got by way of funds was the princely sum of Rs 500 (about ten USD or six point something GBP) from the British High Commission - not monthly, but annually! So it's a universal malady, it seems. ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Mystery solved guys!! Turns out he was actually Mirza Khaleel, who assisted with the translation of the Old Testament into Persian. Cheers, Lynne. :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynne Hadley" <lynnehadley1@bigpond.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:25 PM Subject: Help!! Any Persian scholars or historians out there? > Hi Guys, > > Guys, I have been reading a book of translations of original Persian > letters and documents relating to both Persia & British India, and > stumbled upon a letter by a person called Mirza Kheleel, who resided in > England in 1814. Apparently, Mirza Kheleel had also resided in Ireland, > and had a much higher opinion of Irish hospitality than of British. Has > anybody out there any idea as to whom he might have been? Thanks guys. > Cheers, Lynne. :)) > > > > Life should NOT be a journey to the grave > with the intention of arriving safely in an > attractive and well preserved body, but > rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, > martini in the other, body thoroughly used > up, totally worn out and screaming > "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Hi Guys, Guys, I have been reading a book of translations of original Persian letters and documents relating to both Persia & British India, and stumbled upon a letter by a person called Mirza Kheleel, who resided in England in 1814. Apparently, Mirza Kheleel had also resided in Ireland, and had a much higher opinion of Irish hospitality than of British. Has anybody out there any idea as to whom he might have been? Thanks guys. Cheers, Lynne. :)) Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

>From The Times of India 18 May 2008 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chennai/Neglected_graves_get_foreign_visitors/articleshow/3049880.cms ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India Neglected graves get foreign visitors CHENNAI: The All Souls' and St Stephen's church graveyards in Coimbatore and Ooty get visitors from Australia and the United Kingdom who come to track down their ancestors but the graves themselves get hardly any attention. "Most visitors come to visit their ancestors' graveyards in India. They learn about their India connection from family records and grab the first opportunity to visit India, not to visit the Taj, but to meditate before the graves of their forefathers," says Rev Philip Mulley. "In some cases, the family history may not be complete. So many visitors come with the hope of learning more about their forefathers from the tombstone," he says. In St Stephen's church in Ooty, lie founder of Ooty, John Sullivan's wife and daughter. He was devastated by the death of his wife Henrietta Cecilia and 16-year-old daughter Harriet Anne who died within 10 days of each other in 1838. The tomb erected in their memory will soon disappear as there is virtually no upkeep. The oldest grave at All Souls' belongs to Aaron Tozer Esquire. Church records show he died of cholera in 1814 and the tombstone identifies him as a surgeon in the East India Company. The Indian Monumental Inscription (IMI) identifies Aaron's wife as Mary Mackenzie whom he married in 1799. Three years later, Mary too died at Chittoor in Andhra Pradesh. Mulley is a friendly priest who keeps tabs on the colonial skeletons. "Though dead, they have fascinating stories to tell," he says, pointing to the grave of Captain Henry Handcock who was killed in Ooty by a tiger at the age of 24. At Podanur, 15 km from Coimbatore, is the grave of John Wilson who was killed by a tiger in 1868, 10 years after Henry's death. "His relatives come to visit the grave. They are all settled in Australia. We don't know how they found out about his grave," say a couple who live in the vicinity. "I've seen many visitors from the UK. Most of them leave after offering prayers," says Mulley. He remembers how the Freemasons restored the grave of Major General William Pitt MacDonald, a prominent freemason who died in 1867. All Souls' has two graves which show heart failure and hepatitis, both of which were not unknown in the 1800s. IMI refers to the death of Colonel R A Walter on account of hepatitis and Samuel Scott due to heart failure in 1881 and 1890 respectively. IMI also refers to a few murders and suicides involving the British. Nothing much is being done to keep the tombs in shape either at St Stephen's or at All Souls'. All Souls is supposed to have the grave of Richard Clive - a descendent of first Lord Clive, the Governor of Bengal and founder of British Empire in India. According to records, Richard died on August 6, 1831, and was buried at All Souls. But Clive's grave seems to have disappeared. The tallest tomb carved of Aberdeen granite erected in memory of William Patrick Adam, the erstwhile Governor of Madras who died in 1881, is an imposing structure at St Stephen's, but it too has fallen into neglect. Amidst these ruins, the grave of Josiah Goodwin, Swami Vivekananda's stenographer, alone remains somewhat better maintained. "Till sometime back, the British High Commission used to send us a cheque for Rs 500 for the upkeep of the graves every year. But there were too many procedures and formalities so we decided to forego the money," says All Souls' church manager Henry Prabalanathan. ============================================

From http://www.telegraphindia.com/1080518/jsp/opinion/story_9279784.jsp Sunday , May 18 , 2008 ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India ================================================= STRANGE MEMORIAL - Stories to counter tales of Christian endurance in 1857 by Malavika Karlekar Whether a century and-a-half after the events of 1857-8 should be commemorated or damned, clinically analysed or passed over (if that's possible) depends on one's standpoint. A re-visiting of those days has been possible through a number of texts, visual displays and discussions recently available to nudge the over-programmed urban Indian psyche. At a more individual level, visits to momentous sites stimulate responses of almost primeval xenophobia - not limited only to the opposition to Mutiny tours. During balmy winter days, the well-maintained Residency complex in Lucknow is a destination where one is likely to bump into Britishers examining lithographs and memorabilia in the museum with a certain degree of pathos, and in rare cases, a tinge of regret. "Amazing," commented a member of the 9th Lancers, "that's my regiment, you know. Tragic... after all they were all like brothers..." and his voice trailed off as he was lost in reverie before Harry Payne's The Relief of Lucknow. Indian viewers, of course, are unlikely to buy the fraternal take, their emotions equally charged as they walk through the basement museum, feigning insouciance at such touristy diplomacy. Perceptions and memories have found their way into lithography, aquatints and photographs, and diaries, journals and letters soon became important sources of information and the basis for fictional accounts such as J.G. Farrell's The Siege of Krishnapur. Written in 1973 - in the year that it was awarded the Booker Prize - the book relies heavily on the letters and diaries of those incarcerated in the fortified Residency complex during the relentless summer of 1857. Not unsurprisingly, the minutiae of life are recorded well by a number of women in as many as 27 diaries that still remain. Christian endurance in the face of pagan perfidy is the subtext in many such writings. These jottings have an immediacy, a palpable tension and pain as they record the death of "my poor darling boy" or debate questions on what should be the women's course of action if the enemy manages to get through the fortifications. Some kept poison, others spoke of suicide pacts with their husbands. Many had been killed, several endured hardship, injury and loss. Cholera claimed Mrs Hale in the Begum Kothi followed by others with small pox. 'Atrocity stories' gained credence and became what Pat Barr has called "one of the set-pieces of the British Imperial Story in India". Indian stories of suffering, however, were far less known. Farrell has used available writings imaginatively in his book which, in an Eighties' evaluation, the novelist, Margaret Drabble, felt was "predominantly ironic", not relying on "vulgar suspense" but rather raising "questions about the relationship of past events to the present and indeed the future". Nor is comedy absent - "indeed some of its darkest moments are surreal farce". Thus, the Collector sat at his table trying to sweeten his tea as musket balls sailed through the window - and three young subalterns "dived smartly under the table, leaving the Collector to drink his tea alone. After a while they re-emerged smiling sheepishly, deeply impressed by the Collector's sang-froid". Soon food was in short supply, disease rampant and the upper crust and not-so-upper-crust were reduced to eating beetles. When powder and shot ran out, cannons were loaded with monogramed silver cutlery and false teeth. Ubiquitous padres continued their pursuit of hapless listeners, intent on enunciating loudly an exegesis on Supreme Design. And so on. Fiction of course provides much scope for embellishment, particularly when the historical facts were so compelling in what William Dalrymple has called "one of the great unwritten genocides of the British Empire". Interestingly, a couple of years before The Last Moghul, the prodigious work of Portsmouth-based historian, Alex Tickell, resulted in the re-publication of Shunker: A Tale of the Indian Mutiny of 1857. A little-known short story written in 1877 by Shoshee Chunder Dutt, it can be read in several different registers. Not only does he introduce an element of mystery through the vital meeting between Nana Sahib and a thickset man from Ukraine whose "advice and direction gave a plan and system to the Sepoy revolt of 1857" but also uses rape as a trope for a nuanced understanding of how scores were settled at the individual level. At a time when British relations with central Asia were not the best and the Great Game was to gather momentum, not unsurprisingly, the civil servant-author's suggestion that there may have been a Russian hand in the planning of 1857 caused a certain amount of consternation in the establishment. Despite the somewhat florid style of the times, the narrative moves quite seamlessly from the Cawnpore massacre to the village of Soorajpore about 30 miles away where a couple of fugitives, Bernard and Mackenzie, seek shelter. A mother and daughter take pity on the pair - who are, in no time, harbouring lascivious thoughts towards the latter. This in spite of the fact that the women do not betray them when sepoys come looking for fugitives - and the daughter persuades her mother to let them stay for another night. A fatal mistake, as the "traitors broke open the room in which the females slept... the victim struggled hard, but in vain; when the violence was completed she was as insensible as a corpse". The mother gives chase, but in vain, and her daughter begs to be allowed to die. Her mother will not hear of it ("yours was not the crime") and has little time for the girl's despondency. She assures her that her husband will not cast her away - but to no avail. Knowing the stigma attached to a violated woman, the girl had "swallowed all the rat's-bane that was in the house". Meanwhile, Bernard and Mackenzie are in flight - and as predicted, are able to buy a bullock cart from Shunker, the husband of the dead girl, who was on his way home. When he hears of his wife's fate, he is convinced that the two men are the villains and decides on revenge. He enlists the help of a havildar who had become a rebel after being slighted by an officer. Mackenzie is miraculously found and hung without much ado. High drama follows as Nana Sahib and his wife are retreating to Nepal when they are waylaid by Bernard and another colleague. Once more, a somewhat unconvincing serendipity brings Shunker to the scene in the terai as Nana Sahib's wife struggles in the arms of Bernard. She "screamed loudly... till he stunned her with a blow. But the consummation of further wickedness was prevented by the arrival of the assistance the lady's cries had called up; and in the next moment Bernard was struggling within the strong grasp of Shunker, from which he never came out alive". Though Dutt's characters are plausible, one may quibble with the somewhat naïve storyline of Shunker. In any event, value does not lie in its literary merit but rather in the fact that an Indian in the service of the raj published such a tale at a time when the wounds of 1857 were nowhere near healed. Many families still quailed at memories of the fate suffered by their women and children. Counter-narratives were hardly ever heard or available to the rulers - and in fact Dutt's forthright plot and descriptions ("Miss Jemina and Miss Fitzbuggins shook their pretty little fists at manacled sepoys, and called them 'niggers''') caused a certain unease. Britannia may have been ruling the waters of India - but exposing its seamier undercurrents that has gathered credence in post-colonial times, had early beginnings. =====================================================

"Till sometime back, the British High Commission used to send us a cheque for Rs 500 for the upkeep of the graves every year. But there were too many procedures and formalities so we decided to forego the money," says All Souls' church manager Henry Prabalanathan. Rs 500 How much is that in British Pounds? I can understand the central and local governments in India paying a pittance. But if the British government is doing the same, they must be from the same stock. Idris Attarwala USA Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar <bosham@gmail.com> wrote: >From The Times of India 18 May 2008 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Chennai/Neglected_graves_get_foreign_visitors/articleshow/3049880.cms ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India Neglected graves get foreign visitors CHENNAI: The All Souls' and St Stephen's church graveyards in Coimbatore and Ooty get visitors from Australia and the United Kingdom who come to track down their ancestors but the graves themselves get hardly any attention. "Most visitors come to visit their ancestors' graveyards in India. They learn about their India connection from family records and grab the first opportunity to visit India, not to visit the Taj, but to meditate before the graves of their forefathers," says Rev Philip Mulley. "In some cases, the family history may not be complete. So many visitors come with the hope of learning more about their forefathers from the tombstone," he says. In St Stephen's church in Ooty, lie founder of Ooty, John Sullivan's wife and daughter. He was devastated by the death of his wife Henrietta Cecilia and 16-year-old daughter Harriet Anne who died within 10 days of each other in 1838. The tomb erected in their memory will soon disappear as there is virtually no upkeep. The oldest grave at All Souls' belongs to Aaron Tozer Esquire. Church records show he died of cholera in 1814 and the tombstone identifies him as a surgeon in the East India Company. The Indian Monumental Inscription (IMI) identifies Aaron's wife as Mary Mackenzie whom he married in 1799. Three years later, Mary too died at Chittoor in Andhra Pradesh. Mulley is a friendly priest who keeps tabs on the colonial skeletons. "Though dead, they have fascinating stories to tell," he says, pointing to the grave of Captain Henry Handcock who was killed in Ooty by a tiger at the age of 24. At Podanur, 15 km from Coimbatore, is the grave of John Wilson who was killed by a tiger in 1868, 10 years after Henry's death. "His relatives come to visit the grave. They are all settled in Australia. We don't know how they found out about his grave," say a couple who live in the vicinity. "I've seen many visitors from the UK. Most of them leave after offering prayers," says Mulley. He remembers how the Freemasons restored the grave of Major General William Pitt MacDonald, a prominent freemason who died in 1867. All Souls' has two graves which show heart failure and hepatitis, both of which were not unknown in the 1800s. IMI refers to the death of Colonel R A Walter on account of hepatitis and Samuel Scott due to heart failure in 1881 and 1890 respectively. IMI also refers to a few murders and suicides involving the British. Nothing much is being done to keep the tombs in shape either at St Stephen's or at All Souls'. All Souls is supposed to have the grave of Richard Clive - a descendent of first Lord Clive, the Governor of Bengal and founder of British Empire in India. According to records, Richard died on August 6, 1831, and was buried at All Souls. But Clive's grave seems to have disappeared. The tallest tomb carved of Aberdeen granite erected in memory of William Patrick Adam, the erstwhile Governor of Madras who died in 1881, is an imposing structure at St Stephen's, but it too has fallen into neglect. Amidst these ruins, the grave of Josiah Goodwin, Swami Vivekananda's stenographer, alone remains somewhat better maintained. "Till sometime back, the British High Commission used to send us a cheque for Rs 500 for the upkeep of the graves every year. But there were too many procedures and formalities so we decided to forego the money," says All Souls' church manager Henry Prabalanathan. ============================================ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Memories of an alumnus of St Andrews Colonial Homes (Dr Grahams school, Kalimpong). http://www.hints-n-tips.com/ogbharding.htm ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

http://wisdom154.tripod.com/melvynbrown/id19.html ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Snipped from http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2007-03-09/article/26533 Just What Is a Bungalow? By Jane Powell It really annoys me when I see a real estate listing with a picture of a bungalow which announces something like "fabulous Victorian"- you would think there are enough bungalows around here that agents would get a clue, but apparently not. So herewith I shall answer the question "What is a Bungalow?" The question is fundamentally rather complicated. Dictionaries provide these definitions: "A low house having only one story or, in some cases, upper rooms set in the roof, typically with dormer windows"; "a usually one storied house with a low pitched roof"; "a small house all on one level"; "a small house or cottage usually having a single story and sometimes an additional attic story"; "a thatched or tiled one story house in India surrounded by a wide verandah"; "a usually one storied house of a type first developed in India and characterized by low sweeping lines and a wide veranda." Bungalows and other Arts and Crafts houses, and the design philosophy that shaped them began in 19th Century Britain. The Arts and Crafts Movement was a reaction to the many changes in society brought on by the Industrial Revolution. It is generally agreed that bungalows descended from thatched Bengali peasant huts in India, called variously "banggolo," "bangala," or "bangla" (depending on who's translating). The British altered the native dwelling into something that conformed better to their idea of what a house should be, and built these Anglo-Indian bungalows in compounds outside of the cities and towns, as well as in "hill stations" where the Europeans would go in the summer to get away from the heat. Eventually the bungalow was exported to all corners of the British Empire as being the proper sort of house for Europeans in the tropics. The bungalow's initial use as vacation architecture meant that it came to be associated with leisure and informality, in a natural setting. This association continued even as bungalows began to be built in cities. [snip] ============================= ----- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Pagoda Tree Press is pleased to announce the publication of another new title in our series of Classic early Himalayan Guide Book Reprints: Guide To Dalhousie & Chamba & The Inner Mountains Between Simla & Kashmir ~ 1935 By J. Hutchison First written in 1935; this Guide book covers a large area, from the Sutlej to the Chenab; south of the main Western Himalayas. It gives a General history, as well as a Geographical and Geological description of the region, and a series of Route Planners for most of the major journeys and treks to be made in and around the Kangra valley; including the main routes from there into Kashmir and Ladakh. The author, Dr. J. Hutchison, was a noted historian of the region, who, in collaboration with Dr. J. Vogel, had already co-written the ‘History of the Panjab Hill States’ in 1931. He worked as a medical missionary in Chamba for many years, and had travelled most of these routes himself. Long out of print; this new edition of a rare work, still provides an invaluable guide for anyone interested in this region, and gives a glinpse of travel in the foothills of the Himalayas; as it was before the tarmac road and the motor car took much of the adventure (and the hard labour!) out of Himalayan journeys. Paperback A5 format; 92 pages, with b/w maps & illustrations. 2nd edition 2008 ISBN: 978-1904289-22-7 http://www.pagodatreepress.com ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

G'day Hazel, Selwyn is not a member of the raj List. He cannot read your msg. Please send direct to him at his email address. On 16/05/2008, at 12:43 AM, Haztwin@aol.com wrote: Dear Selwyn, As far as I am cocerned, people are people regardless of their ancestors or skin colour, and anyway I believe it's nurture not nature which plays the greater part in a person's upbringing and eventual character. Remember; - the era of 'Toffee-nosed, snobbish Bfits' is well and truly over. Praise be, Read the chapter ''Who are the Anglo-Indians'; in my book, 'Under The Old School Topee' which reiterates this belief fairly strongly! Salaamw 'n' samosas from Hazel Craig. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.