David MacDonald was, I believe, the first Trade Commissioner into Tibet and wrote a book(s) on the subject. I accompanied, when I was all of five years old, my father Felix Ronald MacDonald,to this man's beautiful home travelling from Calcutta to Kalimpong. My father was first generation born in India and it occurs to me after all these years, to wonder if there was a family connection . I had/have given up on chasing the MacDonald tree in India, because there seems to be so much discrepancy in spelling - nb the spelling variation in the name below. Just musing Sally Stewart Subject: A New Pagoda Tree Press Publication: "Touring in Sikkim & Tibet' by David MacDonald Pagoda Tree Press are pleased to announce the publication of another addition to our series of reprints of early Himalayan Guide Books: Touring In Sikkim & Tibet By David MacDonald. First published in 1930; this is a practical handbook for travellers; written by the famous Kalimpong based hotelier, travel writer and explorer, David Macdonald. It covers travel routes through Sikkim and into Southern Tibet through the Chumbi Valley, up to Gyantse; and contains route descriptions, together with much practical information for the traveller of that time. A5 format in soft covers pp:68 with black and white illustrations. ISBN: 978-1904289-54-8. Price: £10.00 (plus £0.66 UK postage / £1.20 EEC postage / £1.85 worldwide airmail postage; per copy) It is only available directly from Pagoda Tree Press. To order your copy now by email, please cut & paste the order form below in to new email, and then fill it out, and send it, together with credit card details, to hughrayner@pagodatreepress.com Or alternatively, you can order by phone, fax or post, giving your credit/debit card details. We accept payment by Visa / Mastercard/ American Express / Maestro, and most other major credit/ debit cards. Tel /Fax: 0044 1225 463552. **************************************************************************************** ORDER FORM NAME: SHIPPING ADDRESS: POST/ ZIP CODE: TELEPHONE No: E - mail: Please send me copy [ies] of "TOURING IN SIKKIM & TIBET 1930" by David MacDonald at UK£10.00 per copy, plus UK £ per copy postage. PAYMENT DETAILS: I wish to pay by Credit/Debit card Card type: Card number: (N.B. if preferable; you can send the card number in two separate emails, for added security) Expiry date: Issue Number (Debit Cards Only): Card holder’s name: Cardholder’s Address (if different from above): **************************************************************************************** You can also order by post; sending a copy of this form, with a sterling cheque; made payable to Pagoda Tree Press (or alternatively, a sterling postal order made payable to Hugh A. Rayner) FORTHCOMING PUBLICATIONS: Other titles scheduled for publication in the near future: The Sportsman’s Manual In Kulu, Spiti & Lahaul By Col. R. H. Tyacke First published in India in 1893, and reprinted in 1925. Packed with sensible advice and practical travel and camping tips, and written in a chatty informal style; it is a detailed study of the landscape, culture and wildlife of the Kulu, Spiti, Kashmir, Chamba, Bara Bhagal & Lahaul regions, as they were at the end of the 19th Century; but still has much of great interest and relevance for anyone travelling in these areas today. The author, Colonel R. H. Tyacke; was a keen sportsman and notable big game hunter, and a long term resident of the Kulu Valley. He writes about the region, as it was at that time, with an unrivalled knowledge and authority. A5 format in soft covers. 76 pages, with b/w illustrations and maps. ISBN: 978-1094289-38-8. Price: £12.00 Scheduled Publication Date: August 2008. Also: Camera Shikar in Kashmir by Randolph Bezant Holmes ('Holmes of the Frontier') Scheduled Publication Date: Autumn 2008. And: The Indian Cook and Housekeeper by Flora Annie Steele. Scheduled Publication Date: Autumn 2008. Important Note: You have been sent this email because you have already been a client of Pagoda Tree Press or Hugh Ashley Rayner Antiquarian Books; or have expressed an interest in receiving our book lists and publication notifications. If this is not the case, or you wish for any reason to be removed from our mailing list; then please email me, and you will be immediately removed from all future mailings. ******************************************************** Hugh Ashley Rayner Pagoda Tree Press Publisher, Printer & Retail Distributor of Books on India, The Himalayas & Tibet. UK Distributors for CBC Publishing, Harare, Zimbabwe. 4 Malvern Buildings Fairfield Park Bath BA1 6JX England Tel/Fax: 0044 1225 463552 http://www.pagodatreepress.com ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

John Feltham wrote: > <snip> > Touring In Sikkim & Tibet By David MacDonald. > First published in 1930; this is a practical handbook for > travellers; written by the famous Kalimpong based hotelier, travel > writer and explorer, David Macdonald. It covers travel routes through > Sikkim and into Southern Tibet through the Chumbi Valley, up to > Gyantse; and contains route descriptions, together with much practical > information for the traveller of that time.<snip> Am I correct, or not, in thinking that the father of a great life long favourite of mine, Joanna Lumley, was stationed in Sikkim sometime during the 1920/30s ? I have a vague (very) recollection of seeing photographs of him trekking (or should that be 'on shikari'?) out there. I know he was army, so that would raise the question as to how he was stationed out there, Sikkim not, ostensibly, being under British rule; presumably as an 'adviser'. My knowledge of this area being somewhat scant, I may be confusing the political history of Sikkim with that of Bhutan. Yours Aye Andrew Sellon We see not the slightest prospect of success; - we see much danger in making the attempt; - and we doubt if the conversion of the Hindoo would ever be more than nominal. If it is a duty of general benevolence to convert the Heathen, it is less a duty to convert the Hindoos than any other people, because they are already highly civilized, and because you must infallibly subject them to infamy and present degradation. Rev. Sydney Smith 1771-1854, Canon of St. Paul's.

Unfortunately this book does not seem to be available in full view - at least not to me in Sydney, Aus. However, I have found very many other useful publications on Google Books including Allen's Indian Mail from 1850-1857 (2 years per book), and the first volume which is simply called "The Indian Mail" for 1843-44 . Amazingly they come from originals held in the New York Public Library. Sylvia > A Manual of the Salem District in the Presidency of Madras > compiled by H. Le Fanu. Publication 1883Volume 1 - The > District. Chapter IV. > Departments: Ecclesiastical. pages 167 - 173. > > http://books.google.com/books?id=_ZEIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA95&dq=A+man > ual+of+the+salem+district+in+the+presidency+of+madras++Vol.+1& > lr=#PPA167,M1 > > " Under the heading of Ecclesiastical the cemeteries of the > district deserve notice. Many brave men, who died in the > service of their country, lie buried in them, and the > inscriptions over their tombs become daily more and more > illegible. It is not inappropriate, therefore, to append a > list of the Europeans who have found a last resting-place in > the district, so far as their names are known". > > There are seven pages of Year, Names, Parentage and Age. > About 20 cemeteries are listed, Salem Cemetery being the largest. > > Would this be suitable for use on your pages? > > Regards, > Phyllis

Thanks to Phyllis for this head-up. Begin forwarded message: From: "Phyllis L. Danko" <phyllis.danko@verizon.net> Date: 16 July 2008 10:53:37 AM To: Peter Bailey <peter@bailey718.fsworld.co.uk>, John Feltham <wulguru.wantok@gmail.com > Cc: "Phyllis L. Danko" <phyllis.danko@verizon.net> Subject: FIBIS or INDIA-L use? Hello Peter and John, Google Books is proved more than once to be a valuable resource. A Manual of the Salem District in the Presidency of Madras compiled by H. Le Fanu. Publication 1883Volume 1 - The District. Chapter IV. Departments: Ecclesiastical. pages 167 - 173. http://books.google.com/books?id=_ZEIAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA95&dq=A+manual+of+the+salem+district+in+the+presidency+of+madras++Vol.+1&lr=#PPA167,M1 " Under the heading of Ecclesiastical the cemeteries of the district deserve notice. Many brave men, who died in the service of their country, lie buried in them, and the inscriptions over their tombs become daily more and more illegible. It is not inappropriate, therefore, to append a list of the Europeans who have found a last resting-place in the district, so far as their names are known". There are seven pages of Year, Names, Parentage and Age. About 20 cemeteries are listed, Salem Cemetery being the largest. Would this be suitable for use on your pages? Regards, Phyllis ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

A Visit to Gazipur Opium Factory Snipped from http://bihartimes.com/newsbihar/2008/July/newsbihar16July5.html [I am quoting the text without making any correction. After all, it's the message that is important.] --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India Until celebrated novelist Amitav Ghosh wrote it in his latest work of fiction, though liberally laced with history and sociology, Sea of Poppies---we, like him, too were quite unaware of the fact that it was Ghazipur opium factory which had financed British Raj in India as the single largest opium producers in the world, and more startlingly it continues to be the so. Digging deep into the quirky footnotes of Ghosh's novel contexts I decided to make a visit to the world's largest legitimate opium factory to gather more on it for its discerning readers. It was unwaveringly an eye-opener to get the facts on the factory and be not surprised. The opium factory of Ghazipur in Ghosh's novel now has become The Govt. Opium and Alkaloid Works and its one of the very few government enterprises with so much of a load of history, is running in absolute profit since its establishment in 1820. Spread across 52 acres on the banks of holy Ganga the factory now has a workforce of about 900 staffs. [snip] =========================

History of the Cawnpore Cup Each year since 1988, the Committee of Arklow Sailing Club award a Perpetual Challenge Cup to a club member for his retention and safe keeping to the following year. The Cup is presented, not to the fastest boat or the best skipper or indeed, perhaps not even to a sailing member. This Cup can be awarded to any member of the Club who has contributed to the Club over and above what might be called "expected contribution". Generally, the Cup is won by a member who has devoted very significant time and/or energy to the Club. But how did the Cawnpore Cup come to be an award presented each year by the Arklow Sailing Club? The Cup itself is some 8 inches high with a lip diameter of 3 1/2 inches. The Cup is thought to be made of silver although there is no franking mark thereon to confirm this. The Cup was almost certainly made in Cawnpore and probably of material comprising melted down rupee coins. The main inscription, (excluding ASC winners names), on the Cup is - [Cawnpore Gymkhana Races 1925/1926 - Second Meeting - Jajmau Cup - 9th January 1926 - Wee Lassie]-. The Cup was won outright in January 1926 by Ursula Horsman (nee Dixon) on her horse "Wee Lassie". She was half Irish and half Scottish. Ursula was born on 24th May 1901 and had been married to Albert Horsman in Bombay in October 1921 when she was 20 years old. Thus when she won the Cawnpore Cup, she was not yet 25 years of age. By any standards Ursula must have been an exceptional woman, but more of her later. We must all thank Henry Horsman for presenting the Cawnpore Cup to Arklow Sailing Club. It is Henry's wish that the cup should be named as it is rather than the "Horsman Cup". Henry was our Commodore from 1973 to 1980 and President from 1981 to 1985. The Cup was presented to the Club by Henry in 1988 when the Cup was awarded to Billy Brown, the first Club member to be so honoured. Henry was born in Cawnpore in 1927. He was Ursula's second child, her first being Maureen who was born in 1923. Henry's father was a boxwallah. More at -- http://www.arklowsc.ie/Club_Details/cawnpore_cup.htm --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

Big landowners benefited from colonial largesse 7 Sep 2002 MUMBAI: The Parsi trusts and companies that today are six of the city's ten largest landowners have benefited from grants of land made to them by the British and from canny investment in real estate. In the 18th and 19th centuries, the colonial rulers leased out huge tracts as a reward for loyalty and also to attract people to Mumbai. These rewards were in the form of grants or 'inams'. Many of the beneficiaries initially received land on lease, but later were allowed to buy their property. The Parsis, who mainly were traders and middlemen at the time, were the largest beneficiaries of this generosity and became the largest owners of real estate in Mumbai and its hinterland. Parsis considered land to be a good investment. For instance, Karachi-based government contractor Edulji Dinshaw in the late 19th century invested nearly all his money in real estate because he believed that the value would soar, even in the short term. In addition to his Mumbai holdings, he was considered to be the premier landlord of Karachi. Dinshaw put together the basis for holdings that his son, Fram, a lawyer, would expand. The F.E. Dinshaw Estate is now listed as Mumbai's largest private land holder, though much of its property has been encroached upon. The estate is today administered by industrialist Nusli Wadia on behalf of two relatives of F.E. Dinshaw, who live abroad. Sir Byramjee Jeejeebhoy, a 19th century philantrophist who founded several educational institutions in the city, was also a big land owner. The Byramjee Jeejeebhoy Properties Limited, which currently looks after his land, has been listed as the fifth biggest land holder in the city. In October 1830, the East India Company made Sir Byramjee a grant of seven villages between Jogeshwari and Borivli; the land totalled a staggering 12,000 acres. Sir Byramjee also owned a large tract of land in Bandra. Bandra's Land End, where the Regent Hotel is located, once belonged to Sir Byramjee. Over the past 40 years, huge chunks of his land in Oshiwara Kandivli and Malad were either sold off to builders or ceded to the government for various public projects. The holdings of the A.H. Wadia Trust, which is the sixth-largest private land holder in the city, were put together in the early part of the 19th century. Ardeshir Hormusji Wadia was given the lease for Kurla- which consisted of the six villages of Mohili, Kolikalyan, Marol, Sahar, Asalphe and Parjapur-for a yearly rent of Rs 3,587. The trust that bears his name has lost huge chunks of land in the western suburbs to encroachers or because parcels were ceded to the government. The descendants of several other large landholders, though have not been able to retain their huge holdings. "During the past 40 years, their children found it difficult to control just vast stretches of land,'' community insiders said. "Encroachers and local slum lords soon took over. There was nothing they could do.'' Among the estates that have been fractured is the property of Parsi merchant Framjee Cowasjee Banaji, who in 1838 founded the Bombay Times and Journal of Commerce (which later was rechristened The Times of India). He had a vast estate at Powai, where he conducted horticulture experiments. In 1835, the villages of Kanjur and Vikhroli were leased by the East India Company to him on an annual payment of 93 pounds, then worth Rs 930. Also fragmented are the Parel rice fields that in 1783 were awarded to the sons and grandsons of master ship builder Lowjee Wadia for services rendered to the Royal Navy during the war with France. Landlords of yore included Pestonjee Bomanjee Wadia, a successful ship owner, who in 1814 was considered the largest land owner of Bombay. In 1854, entrepreneur and philanthropist Jamsetjee Jeejeebhoy's property gave him a monthly income of Rs 10,500, a huge income in those days. Of course, none of them knew how the value of their holdings would appreciate. "Land had little value till after independence. For instance, 40 years ago, a 1,000 square yard plot in Bandra would cost just Rs 5,000,'' said a source in the building industry. "Today, it is worth Rs one lakh a square yard.'' **** http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/21402168.cms [**** My comment - this was written in 2002. Six years later, you will find that the rate ''Rs one lakh a square yard'' mentioned in the last line has gone up to Rs ten lakhs a square yard.] --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

I especially like the photograph of women celebrating in a magnificent and airy hall. The whole is full of grace .... and good living . The girl was a good shot for the panther has taken it through the heart - I believe. Such a pity but then, it may have become a pest which had to be dealt with. The Brit having a pedicure (his feet not too clean) makes me smile. He looks so much in his sphere but he never would, I tend to think, have experienced such subordinate luxury in his natural environment. Nice pictures - Sally

What fantastic pictures! Given the previous (?ongoing) discussion, I was particularly amused by the one of the scantily clad British male getting a pedicure from his well dressed Indian servant! Sylvia > -----Original Message----- > From: india-british-raj-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:india-british-raj-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of > John Feltham > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 1:24 AM > To: Raj; vsdh > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Old Photographs from Indian History > > G'day, > > On 16/07/2008, at 12:53 AM, Arvind Kolhatkar wrote: > > << I do not know whether this is so for everyone on the Raj > List but I have received only the descriptions of photos > without the embedded > links. Presume they got dropped in transmission. Could you repeat > the mail to me again? Thanks... >> > > OK - I have set up a quick page at.... > > > http://vsdh.org/gohere/index.htm

> I remember to have seen Photo No 1 of the Princess and the panther. Sorry to be a pedant, but is it not a Leopard rather than a panther? The latter being the black variant of the former. J

G'day, On 16/07/2008, at 12:53 AM, Arvind Kolhatkar wrote: << I do not know whether this is so for everyone on the Raj List but I have received only the descriptions of photos without the embedded links. Presume they got dropped in transmission. Could you repeat the mail to me again? Thanks... >> OK - I have set up a quick page at.... http://vsdh.org/gohere/index.htm I'll leave the page there for a week or so before I take it down. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

Old Photographs from Indian History Love cool mails ? Click here to join this group (Please let the pics open. Might take some time on a slower connection. If you can't see the pictures, right click the small Red-Cross and choose Show Picture to view it.) The daughter of an Indian maharajah seated on a panther she shot, sometime during 1920s. A British man gets a pedicure from an Indian servant. The Grand Trunk Road, built by Sher Shah Suri, was the main trade route from Calcutta to Kabul. A group of Dancing or nautch girls began performing with their elaborate costumes and jewelry. A rare view of the President's palace and the Parliament building in New Delhi. Women gather at a party in Mumbai (Bombay) in 1910. A group from Vaishnava, a sect founded by a Hindu mystic. His followers are called Gosvami-maharajahs An aerial view of Jama Masjid mosque in Delhi, built between 1650 and 1658. The Imperial Airways 'Hanno' Hadley Page passenger airplane carries the England to India air mail, stopping in Sharjah to refuel. Want cool emails in your inbox? Click here Photos and Wallpapers ICEBERGS - Naturally-stripped (Natural Marvel) MARS - The Red Planet (Amazing satellite pictures) AIR EMIRATES - Truly world-class (Photos) NIGHT-LIFE (Nice photos) GREAT PYRAMIDS OF EGYPT Juliana International Aiport - St. Martins (Little-known wonders) ANGEL FALLS - World's highest waterfalls (Amazing Photos) Windows 7 - The successor of Vista (Photos) WATERFALLS [Never seen before] - (Wallpapers) DUBAI - World's fastest growing city (MUST SEE PHOTOS) Jokes Banta's Letter to Bill Gates (Very funny) Self-Appraisal (Nice Story) Santa - Banta Jokes Santa Singh's Interview (Joke) School Joke (Really Hilarious) Cricket ASIA CUP 2008 [Final] - India Vs Sri Lanka ODI (PHOTOS) ASIA CUP - India Vs Sri Lanka ODI (PHOTOS) KITPLY CUP - [Final] - India Vs Pakistan (PHOTOS) New KITPLY CUP - India Vs Bangladesh ODI (PHOTOS) KITPLY CUP - India Vs Pakistan ODI (PHOTOS) DLF IPL FINAL - Rajasthan Royals Vs Chennai Super Kings (PHOTOS)

Denise Hughes Weston - I came from exactly the same background. Any thought of "coloured" blood was hurriedly swept under the carpet. I do believe that dear Mama believed she had pulled the wool over our (brother and self) eyes until the day she passed on. She was born in London - like hell! Nearer to Lahore. Great great grand father was a noted musician - like hell he was! He was a Bandmaster for some Scottish regiment and was commissioned and married a pahari girl in Simla. He had three daughters and one was my grandmother. All this was never told to me but I garnered it because, as my ayah would say, "Little pitchers have long y-e-r-s" and I compared notes with my brother and we have a fairly comprehensive knowledge of our progenitors!......But reverting to Harshoo's subject of Indian customs and thus to the faithful servants who looked after us I would like to place on record my love for my ayah who was a wonderful, comfortable lady and a refuge from all the evils out there including irate parents. Oh, how I wish I could have that time over again! What appreciation I would show and, indeed,what respect I would give to our "butler", dear old Solomon. He was a Madrasi of almost frail build but he ran the household with a rod of iron. I remember he caught the masaulchi stealing a banana on one occasion. The poor kid was hungry! But Solomon sat him down and fed him bananas until he was bursting and for the next three days he ate nothing but bananas! "Master Bill" - me - could do no wrong. But in the unlikely event of my my being caught erring Solomon would look so uneasy, so disappointed that little "Master Bill" would dissolve into tears of mortification - and run for ayah!...Somewhere, somehow there should be a marble monument erected to those marvellous "servants". God rest their souls.

John, May I offer some further comments on some of the photos? I remember to have seen Photo No 1 of the Princess and the panther. If my memory serves me right, she is from the Travancore family, who were among the more enlightened princely houses. The 'nautch' girls in Photo No 4 appear from their dresses to be from somewhere in South India. No 5 is described as the President Palace and the Parliament Building. This is correct in part. The round structure is the Parliament. The symmetrical looking edifice is not the President's House or Rashtrapati Bhavan but the North (the upper one in the picture) and South Blocks. The President's House is not seen, it lies beyond the left edge of the picture. The North and South Blocks housed the Secretariat in British days and I am told that Lord Mountbatten had his office in a large hall towards the left end of the North Block on the upper floor. (That hall has now been partitioned into smaller rooms and the garden variety bureaucrats occupy them. A colleague of mine was one of them for a while!) The North Block now houses Home and Finance Ministries and the South Block has Defence and External Affairs and the PM's secretariat. Other ministries are scattered around in various new buildings. The large vacant areas around the Blocks is filled up by these and by residences of Ministers and senior bureaucrats Almost all ladies in No 6 appear to be Parsee. They were the most westernized community - this can be guessed from the drawing room - and close to the British. No 7 is the Vallabhacharya sect based in Nathdwara near Udaipur. It is popular among the rich trading communities of Rajasthan and Gujarat. This sect worships Lord Krishna in his form as the young naughty cowherd, (In his young days the playful Krishna was a darling of the milkmaids. In the 19th century the sect came under a cloud because the Chief of the sect carried his emulation of Krishna a little too far. May be the Vallabhacharya in the picture is the very one against whom there were court cases. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, July 15, 2008

Drool!! We loved this as kids........although my mum only sprinkled it with sultanas. :)) Cheers, Lynne. :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mandeep Singh Bajwa" <msbajwa@airtelmail.in> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ Digest, Vol 3, Issue 182 > Chawal ki Kheer ! My favourite..............yum ! > > Mandeep Bajwa > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "E. Sarstedt-McCarthy" <loony46@gmail.com> > To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 1:26 PM > Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ Digest, Vol 3, Issue > 182 > > >> Hi Claire, >> >> "But somewhere I have an Indian recipe for a mere 1/3 cup of cream of >> rice >> to be slow-cooked with a whole quart of enriched milk (half and half) and >> loads of sugar till it's of pudding consistency, served with almonds, >> sultanas etc. for garnish. Can't recall the Indian name for it. Loaded >> with >> calories, but delicious." >> >> The above item is known as 'kheer', an absolutely delicious dessert. >> >> >> Cheers >> >> Elsie >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 > 6:49 AM > >

Even during the Raj coking in the Indian Army was done with desi ghee, there being a large Ghee Depot at Agra for the purpose of preparing and supplying the stuff.Officer's Messes also switched over to ghee after Independence. Mandeep ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" <akolhatkar@rogers.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Soojee in ghee > Wilfred, > > You say <Couple of Christmases ago I made a return trip to Pakistan to > meet > up with my old school chums and was introduced to 'suji halwa'. Never came > across it whilst growing up out there. > > > I know why. It is cooked on ghee. Halwa is the most popular form in > which > sooji (aka rawa and semolina) is eaten in the subcontinent. The equally > popular South Indian 'upama' is also sooji. > > I have never understood the reason for it but the Brits never took to > using > 'ghee' or clarified butter in their cooking. For them, there was nothing > beyond butter. On the other hand, Indian cooking hardly ever uses butter > as > such. For Indians it is always 'ghee'. Probably the Brits equated eating > ghee with going native...but let me tell you that fresh ghee has an > appetizing flavour and granularness which are totally absent from butter. > > On the subject of ghee, I had stayed in an army mess in Ladakh a couple of > decades ago. I was amazed that ghee was a part of the fare there - by and > large the Indian Army messes still follow the pre-1947 practices, but > apparently an exception was made for ghee! > > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, July 11, 2008. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

All those mails on this subject are highly interesting and valuable, as they present different points of view. I wish to add just this: William Dalrymple has covered this aspect quite nicely in his book on Bahadur Shah Zafar, while writing about British Residents in Delhi in the pre-Victorian era. Take a dekko. Jolly good word portraits of Sir David Ochterloney, et al. Some more items can be added to Mr Kolhatkar's list, but this is enough. --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arvind Kolhatkar" I often wonder why the British in India adopted certain practices, foods etc. from Indians but kept away from others. [snip]

Some weeks ago I'd told you about Bahadur Shah Zafar's ghost in Delhi. That story is here: http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=5fd9e8af-e637-4e43-be11-e9467596a4d4&&Headline=A+ghost+funeral+in+Chandni+Chowk Now here is another ghost for you -- one who eats cakes. <<< Owen Tomkinson was a British soldier who died of cholera in the northern Indian state of Bihar in 1906. Nothing unusual about that, but people of Ekbalnagar in Gaya town where Mr Tomkinson is buried, believe that his ghost stops residents and passers-by and demands tea and cake. >>> Monday, 17 July 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/5186722.stm And this one is old hat - Shimla's share in tales of British ghosts http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20030621/windows/main3.htm --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Nagpur, India

I'm quite enjoying this one, guys!! :)) And now for my two shekel's worth.....:)) At first it was far easier for British men to integrate into Indian society, but when Protestantism became the rule of the day in England, any intermarriage between Protestants and Catholics was frowned upon, to the degree that a priest was charged with treason for marrying a British soldier to an Eurasian lady of Portuguese descent. Once British women began to arrive in India in numbers, this bigotry was extended even further (what British woman of the day wished to be sent home husbandless and dubbed a "returned empty"?!!) towards those who married Indian women, although this had already begun to take root. As to the social snobbery: let's face it....for the most part the Brits who went to India were on the lowest rungs of the social ladder in England, so there can be very little doubt that when they got to India where they were the ruling class and had servants at their beck and call, it completely went to their heads. They must have thought they'd died and gone to Heaven, having somebody to look down upon for a change, instead of bearing the brunt of snobbery back home. As to Asian people in general (and AI's in particular) not integrating: we are a pretty multicultural mob here in Australia. I'm largely of Scottish/Irish descent, and grew up with all the old sayings, songs, poetry, &ca., which had trickled down through the generations from Scotland and Ireland. My mum was, and I am, very proud of her ancestry, and we wore kilts as children on a regular basis. In my humble experiencem, it's not non-European groups who are the most die-hard when it comes to integrating......it's people from Britain, including my own erstwhile outlaws. I've absolutely no objection to immigrants wearing their national dress, if that's what they feel most comfortable with, and it also lends this lump of rock I'm living on a cosmopolitan atmosphere that is very nice to live in. As to AI's in Oz...........yes, they do integrate very well for the most part, but I hope and pray that they will never lose touch with their culture, but celebrate it the way so many other immigrants here still do. As Eric Stracey once said to me: "I don't think of myself as being an AI or Australian......I consider myself to be a citizen of the world. But when I'm with other AI's, I feel far more AI". I guess, guys, that this is the sense of community which is said to have been lost? Which, if that were the case, begs the questions: "Why all the reunions, dances, associations, if the AI community is lost or in danger of being lost? Why bother?" The answer's simple......it's not lost, and I doubt that it will ever go, because your children have grown up, or are growing up, in a distinctly AI atmosphere. What makes any of us think, that they won't carry on these little family.....and community....traditions? Cheers, guys. Lynne. :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denise Hughes" <denise_hughes@terra.es> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 2:24 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Adopting to the Indian life-styles andhabits > Dear Hazel > > I'd like to put my oar in here (univited but never mind). The only > thing I can read into Arvind's message is that the Brits in India were > rather silly not to have adopted the Indian way of living, given the > climate. > > Perhaps quite a few of our ancestors would have lived a great deal > more comfortably if they had stopped wearing stiff collars and ties, > or petticoats and high necked dresses. > > If Ghee was more healthy than butter in pre-refrigerator days in the > Indian climate, why was it not used? > > As to sitting on the ground, wearing tight trousers or lots of skirt > and petticoat it is not exactly easy to sit cross legged. > > I do not see this message as an insult, only a well thought out > commentary. > > Best wishes > Denise Hughes Weston > Researching in > India: CHAMARETTE, WESTON, ASH, COMBES, THOMPSON, JOHANNES (OR > JOHANESS) & MOORE > U.K.: HUGHES & NORRIS, BOYTON & KING, WESTON & SHORTER > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date: 7/14/2008 > 6:49 AM > >

Chawal ki Kheer ! My favourite..............yum ! Mandeep Bajwa ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Sarstedt-McCarthy" <loony46@gmail.com> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ Digest, Vol 3, Issue 182 > Hi Claire, > > "But somewhere I have an Indian recipe for a mere 1/3 cup of cream of rice > to be slow-cooked with a whole quart of enriched milk (half and half) and > loads of sugar till it's of pudding consistency, served with almonds, > sultanas etc. for garnish. Can't recall the Indian name for it. Loaded > with > calories, but delicious." > > The above item is known as 'kheer', an absolutely delicious dessert. > > > Cheers > > Elsie > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message