Me thinketh that the group of "scholars" working for the history channel need to go back to school if they feel that The Beatles contributed more to British history than our Winnie. This is the trouble when you gather a lot of egg heads together and give them unbridled power to propound their zany theories; the young people who"weren't there" take it as gospel truth! Alas and alack!

Madraspatnam's first church by S. MUTHIAH Monday, Jan 09, 2006 http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2006/01/09/stories/2006010900500501.htm --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

This is an old story. I don't know the latest position. --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar A losing battle to preserve heritage 24 Nov 2002 http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/29102112.cms KOLKATA: The striking castle near Ganesh Talkies in north Kolkata is almost lost in the maze of hideously ugly, illegal structures which have come up all over the heritage building. All that remains are the two towers that resemble an English manor, built in the middle of the 19th century, at least 150 years ago by Babu Prasanna Coomar Tagore. The house was used as a guest house and the estate office by the Tagores of Pathuriaghata and occupied some eight acres of land. The present owner, Sreejit Tagore, has been busy fighting one court case after another to regain control over the castle, which had been given out on lease to the Mundhras and spun out of their control. Sreejit claims several thousand people now reside in the castle and all of them have made some construction or the other to suit their own convenience. Most of them pay no rent either. A nostalgic Sreejit Tagore recalls that every time the Nizam of Hyderabad visited the city, he preferred to stay in the Tagore Castle. His wives and the zenana would usually be lodged in the Nizam Palace. On one of his visits, the Nizam bought 19 Jaguars in the city and drove around; but rather than get the vehicles driven back to Hyderabad, he presented each one of them to the drivers of the Tagores before leaving for Hyderabad. "Although Ravi Shankar and Ali Akbar rendered their first duet here, the general impression is that only the Tagores of Jorasanko patronised culture. Of course, relatively speaking we had very little money ourselves. Our monthly income in 1911 was Rs 11 lakh whereas in 1980 it came down to a meagre Rs 10,000," recalls Tagore with a chuckle. Prasanna Coomar Tagore disinherited his son Gyanendra after the latter married against his wishes. The issue went up to the Privy Council which favoured the son. But Gyanendra Tagore, who left for England, imposed a terrible curse on the family. "The next four generations in the family had no male heir till yours truly was born." Neither the Kolkata municipal corporation nor the state government have evinced much interest in rescuing and preserving the unique structure. And Sreejit appears to be fighting a solitary and possibly a losing battle. ==========

New British history forgets Sir Winston Churchill, says a news report. And he was the man who had refused to preside over the liquidation of His Majesty's British Empire (and give India her freedom) ... Poetic Justice, eh? http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1182620 But, despite his numerous faults, I have a healthy respect for Churchill. A pity, he could not become another ''White Moghul'' (someone like Ochterloney), when he was stationed in Bangalore. He hated the place, didn't he? --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

Hi listers. This article by S. Muthiah refers to St. Mary's co-cathedral on Armenian street in Chennai. Earlier on, there were two contributions referring to 'The bells of St. Mary's' which talked about an Armenian church being refurbished etc. Are these two different churches, or are they one and the same? Anybody out there who could enlighten me? Alfred Vieyra. -----Original Message----- From: india-british-raj-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:india-british-raj-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2008 2:16 AM To: india-british-raj@rootsweb.com Subject: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Madraspatnam's first church Madraspatnam's first church by S. MUTHIAH Monday, Jan 09, 2006 http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2006/01/09/stories/2006010900500501.ht m --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3346 (20080811) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 3346 (20080811) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com

Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar wrote: > New British history forgets Sir Winston Churchill, says > a news report. <snip> Mention the name 'Churchill' to most under 25's in the UK today and they think only of a dog that advertises insurance on Tv. Such is the way of life. Yours Aye Andrew Sellon A just and necessary war costs this country about one hundred pounds a minute; whipcord fifteen thousand pounds; red tape seven thousand pounds; lace for drummers and fifers, nineteen thousand pounds; a pension to one man who has broken his head at the Pole; to another who has shattered his leg on the Equator; subsidies to Persia; secret service money to Thibet; an annuity to Lady Henry Somebody and her seven daughters – the husband being shot at some place where we never ought to have had any soldiers at all. Rev. Sydney Smith 1771-1854, Canon of St. Paul's.

Dear Listers, The mention of Nizam's Palace in Calcutta in Harshawardhan's posting reminded me that this property in Calcutta and a similar one, now called the Hyderabad Estate, situated on the outward-facing slope of the Malabar Hill in South Bombay, are located in prime areas of those cities and are owned by the Central Government. The mansions which stood on those properties have long been replaced by blocks of residential apartments. These blocks are allotted to senior civilian officers of various departments of the Central Government for a nominal rent during the Officers' postings in those cities. The properties are under the management of the Estate Officers in those cities. While no vestige of the erstwhile mansion remains in Calcutta - as far as I can recall - one can see the remains of some masonry work on the steep slope of the hill in Bombay. I guess that those are the remains of a formal garden that must have been laid out on the slope. I have lived in residential apartments in both these estates for several years. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, August 12, 2008.

There is a very nice book on the celebrated "Bhawal sanyasi," an ''imposter'', who was finally declared genuine by the final court of appeal in British India - the Privy Council. Book - ''A princely imposter? The Strange and Universal History of the Kumar of Bhawal'', by Partha Chatterjee, April 2002, Princeton University Press, ISBN: 0-691-09031-9, Price US$19.95, pp 429. An excellent review of the book is at http://www.shailaja.net/imposter.htm The reviewer raises a good question, that is, why would the choice of a domestic oppressor over a foreign one amount to a secret history of India's nationalist movement. --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Some snippets from the review: Visiting professor of anthropology at Columbia University Partha Chatterjee's book about the case, A Princely Imposter?, proves that history can be more compelling than fiction. In essence, this is a mystery that - as the question mark in the book's title of the book indicates - even Chatterjee cannot solve. Like a good mystery novel, the book is a gripping read, racy and full of suspense. Chatterjee recreates the Bengal of the mid 20th century with Dickensian flair. But this is also a serious work of history. Without ever losing his grip on the taut narrative, Chatterjee uses the case to discuss the issues of nationalism, gender, caste and colonial oppression. He argues that the Bhawal sanyasi became a "focus of anti-colonial sentiments" and claims that the case reveals the "secret history of Indian nationalism". Anti-colonial sentiment gained strength during the protracted legal battle, Chatterjee writes, so that by 1946 India wasn't the acquiescing colony it was in 1921. Educated, middle-class Indians now held important positions in the judiciary. According to the author, "... there is no mistaking the nationalist location of the legal-political thinking" of the two Indian judges who were instrumental in declaring the sanyasi as the bona fide prince. "[The judges] represented the generation of Indians who had discursively, ideologically, often institutionally prepared themselves for a transfer of power." And, since the British government claimed the sanyasi was an imposter, the Indian judges' verdict was an act of nationalist self-assertion. What better way to cock a snook at their colonizers? The local British received another slap in the face when on appeal the London Privy Council, the final arbiter for the case, upheld the Indian judgment. The decision sent a signal that Britain had begun to believe that Indian affairs were now best left to the judgment of Indians, Chatterjee argues. Though the possibility of a tacit conspiracy of "secret" nationalism in the Indian courts is intriguing, Chatterjee leaves too many questions unanswered. Why would men whom Chatterjee describes as "stalwarts among nationalist lawyers" defend a debauched feudal lord who represented an exploitive system the nationalist movement abhorred? The prince had not been an exemplary human being. As an affluent zamindar (landowner), he had taken a child bride and devoted his life to hunting and womanizing, rather than the improvement of his estate - much less the lot of its tenants. Far from being ignorant of his decadent life, these stalwart nationalists called the prince's old mistresses to the stand to prove that he suffered from syphilis. In the final analysis, Chatterjee doesn't supply enough convincing reasons to explain why the choice of a domestic oppressor over a foreign one amounts to a secret history of India's nationalist movement. -----------------

Monday, Aug 04, 2008 Shettihalli - A church from another era submerged in water The derelict church at Shettihalli evokes memories of the past. The Holy Rosary Church was built by French Missionaries way back in the 18th Century. Shettihalli (near Hassan, Karnataka state) was first mentioned in the Jesuit records by the missionary Fr. Manuel De Almeyda in 1727, but it became a separate mission station only in 1740. The church was attributed to Fr. Dubois, commonly referred to as Abbe Dubois. He had built the church and a presbytery there, possibly in 1810. However, there seemed to have been a church even prior to that, but it is believed to have been destroyed. The Church was renovated around 1860. However, the roof of the abandoned church was finally removed in 1982, and today it stands as a derelict monument that is reminiscent of the colonial days. Much water has indeed flowed under the bridge since then, as it now stands submerged by the backwaters of the Hemavathy reservoir. http://www.hindu.com/mp/2008/08/04/stories/2008080450650200.htm Some other pages on this church, with photographs: http://www.hindu.com/2005/08/11/stories/2005081102190200.htm http://www.ghumakkar.com/2008/02/01/shettihali-a-church-submerged-in-the-waters/ http://backpakker.blogspot.com/2008/01/shettihalli.html --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

Perhaps, this is not strictly on-topic, but as we owe our knowledge of English to the Raj, you'd like this. --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Snipped from - http://www.hindu.com/mp/2008/08/07/stories/2008080750870100.htm Thursday, Aug 07, 2008 Sir Mark Tully's love for Indian languages stretches back to his childhood, but he hasn't really had much luck learning them. Growing up in Kolkata, he was under strict instructions not to speak any desi languages (you've probably read his story about being hit on the head by his British nanny for counting in Hindi with his driver). And later, during his 22-year stint as BBC's chief of bureau in New Delhi, he found that most people in that cosmopolitan city were more intent on speaking English rather than Hindi or Punjabi. "If I had lived in a place where the language spoken was predominantly Hindi, my Hindi would have become much better," he says regretfully. That, perhaps, is one of the reasons why preserving Indian languages is a cause that has become close to the heart of this veteran journalist. "I'm interested in how English can be stopped from swamping Indian languages," says Sir Mark over a cup of tea. Tempering his statement in his gentle way, he adds, "English has become an Indian language and that's very valuable, but it's equally important that all Indian languages are cherished." This interest will partly form the subject of his next book, he reveals. "I'm writing a book on how India has changed since economic liberalisation and one of the aspects I'm looking at is linguistic," says the soft-spoken writer. "Obviously, the demand for English is going up, and I'm trying to find people who're working on enabling Indian languages to grow and modernise." (more) ========

From http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2004/07/26/stories/2004072601560100.htm --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Monday, Jul 26, 2004 CHURCH with a HISTORY "I have lately built a bungalow and a chapel for the natives. It is on the site of the old Towngate School, which being a thoroughfare is an excellent place for preaching the Gospel to the natives. It cost us 250 rupees or 25 pounds. The place of worship is 36 feet by 26 feet and will hold about 120 persons. We hope to be able to open it for public service next Lord's Day". That was an excerpt from the letter dated August 13, 1835, written by J.W. Gordon, who built the London Mission Memorial (LMM) Church (Church of South India) on the Main Road, opposite the Hindu Reading Room. Though hardly anything remains of the ancient structure, the marble stone tablets adorning the walls and the writings on them take visitors on a trip down history spanning nearly two centuries. The other articles of antique value which will be the historian's delight, are a silver chalice which is used in the Sunday Mass Communion and a few rare pictures of the original church building. The chalice was presented to the church by Samuel Paul (of London Mission Society) and his family, on the occasion of the London Mission Society's centenary on August 23, 1895. The nearly 110 year-old silver cup is still shining like new. The genesis The London Missionary Society was started in a coffee house in London in 1794. It flourished under the leadership of John Ryland, a Baptist minister in Bristol. Ryland and his friends started a missionary society by the name L.M.S. to send out missionaries to different countries to teach Gospel truths. George Crann and Augustus Des Granges were among the first batch of missionaries that was sent to South India in 1804. They arrived in Vizagapatam on July 18, 1805. The first ever Protestant missionaries in the region, they began their missionary work by learning the Telugu language. They mastered the local language in a short time and began translating parts of the New Testament. Ananda Rayara, one of the early Brahmin converts in India, who is said to have been in the court of Tipu Sultan, but had his roots in Andhra, assisted the early missionaries in the translation of the scriptures, and by 1809 the Gospels of Matthew and Luke were completed in manuscript. In the next three years, four Gospels were published. But tragedy struck the early mission with the death of George Crann in 1809 followed by that of Des Granges in 1810. A new batch of missionaries, Revs. Lee, Gordon and Pritchett took over the good work done by the founding fathers and the first complete New Testament in Telugu was printed in Madras. "The LMS missionaries were also concerned about the social evils like Sati that were prevalent at that time and believed that good education and teaching of moral truths contained in the Gospel of Jesus Christ would bring about a social revolution in the minds of the people. They adopted a three-pronged strategy of teaching, preaching and translation of scriptures," says Rev. Ch. Joel Alfred Samuel, Father of the LMM Church. Contribution to education "The LMM missionaries were also pioneers in starting educational institutions in the region. Mrs. Des Granges was a pioneer in women education and started a girls school for the natives in 1806. An LMM Vernacular School was also started in the same year and a few other educational institutions were started in course of time. They were handed over to the Canadian Baptist Mission (CBM) after the LMM headquarters was shifted to Cuddapah," he says. "The LMM Church was given to the local congregation in 1910. From then onwards, the church had Indian leadership and was managed with Indian funds. In 1947, the congregation united with the Church of South India." Bicentenary celebrations To commemorate the bicentenary year of the first LMM missionaries arriving in Visakhapatnam, the present committee of the church recently organised a `Thanksgiving Service' of the dawning of the bicentenary year. The Rt. Rev. Dr. G. Dyvasirvadam, Bishop of Krishna Godavari Diocese and chairman of the steering committee of the bicentenary celebrations, delivered the message of God. A new bell for the church christened, `Ananda Sunadh', in memory of Ananda Rayara, who had assisted in the translation of the New Testament, was installed and memorial tablets in honour of the founding fathers were also erected. =================================

An old but interesting story: --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Monday, Feb 24, 2003 The bells of St. Mary's THE SIX bells of the Armenian Church of St. Mary's, believed to be the largest number in any church in Tamil Nadu, are rung at 9 a.m. for three minutes every Sunday by caretaker Michael Stephen to mark the church "as being alive", even if there are only two Armenians left in Madras today. But when they pealed on one recent Sunday morning, February 9, they did so for much longer and several times. It was one of those rare occasions in recent years that this bit of Madras history in Armenian Street came alive with worship being held in it. More significantly, worship was being conducted in it for the first time in nearly 10 years by an American priest who offered the dozen-strong congregation visiting from Calcutta and the dozen or so guests from the city the full grandeur of a service of the Armenian Orthodoxy. [snip] http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2003/02/24/stories/2003022400170300.htm

And for anyone interested, since that article was written in 2003, the bells, Church and surrounding grounds have undergone extensive and sympathetic renovation over the last two years under the new Church committee and Pastor, Very Rev. Oshagan Gulgulian. The church will be re-consecrated in November this year by His Holiness, Karekin II, Catholicos and Supreme Patriarch of all Armenians who will be in India on a Pontifical visit. His Holiness Karekin II, is spiritual leader of the world's 9 million Armenian Apostolic Orthodox Christians. He will then travel on to Kolkata to conduct Hrashapar service at the Armenian Holy Church of Nazareth which is celebrating its 300th anniversary this year. The Hrashapar Service is one that is traditionally celebrated by the Church involved in the arrival of the Catholicos. This service has two meanings: one of welcome and also, on the part of the Catholicos, a service of Thanksgiving for having reached his destination safely and an acknowledgement of the honor being bestowed upon him. The Armenian Church at Chennai and its bells will once again see regular services held as part of the programme to ensure the Armenian churches in India continue for many more generations to come. Best wishes Liz Researching Chater or Armenians in India and Hong Kong in 2008? Please go to www.chater-genealogy.com.

Hi all Is there an online resource or has anybody access to any type of death records that cover the Bombay Area between 1869-1874? In particular I am looking for any information regarding the following children:- Edward James Bunn b.1868 in St. Helier, Jersey Adelaide Maud Bunn b.1871 in Colaba, Bombay Emma Ellen Bunn b.1871 in Colaba, Bombay Their parents were James and Adelaide Bunn. James was a gunner in the 6th Brigade, Royal Artillery. Any help whatsoever would be greatly appreciated. Jonathan

I have not explored this site as yet, so would like some feedabck. --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar ** Best Free Documentaries** http://bestdocumentaries.blogspot.com/2008/08/britain-empire-of-good-intentions.html Thursday, August 07, 2008 Britain - Empire of Good Intentions Produced and directed by Jamie Muir The ideals of Empire may have been noble, but as the Empire of Good Intentions shows, the reality was blood, grief and broken promises. Britain faced the challenges and consequences of running the biggest Empire the world had ever seen. The founding fathers of the ideal of Imperial duty believed it was the job of Empire to give its subjects what they need for eventual self government - education, law, hospitals, roads and railways. But could Britain deliver both modern western civilisation and save peasants from famine and cholera? In 1901 the Viceroy of all India, Lord Curzon, planned a memorial to Queen Victoria. By the time the foundation stone to this marble extravaganza was laid, a year after Curzon left India, at least sixteen million Indians had perished in a most terrible famine. Mutiny as well as famine drove a wedge between British and Indian, widened by the British lack of sensitivity to custom and religion. Rebellion was crushed and a new rule for India saw Victoria become Empress, but the whole idea of empire itself changed. Nearer to home, Ireland was the victim of perhaps the most brutal application of laissez-faireeconomic policy, thousands dying in the great potato famine of the 1840s while grain export of the country continued. While the politicians fought over policy, the soup kitchens and the workhouses overflowed. Over two million Irishmen and women trudged to the ports to find their way to America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Into this world of contrasts came Gladstone and Disraeli. While opinion was polarised on just how Empire should be ruled, Schama says: "It was never so dramatically demonstrated than in the dazzlingly contrasting styles of Disraeli and Gladstone, their views on India and Ireland as conflicting as their personal and political styles." While Disraeli couldn't get enough of Empire, Gladstone championed home rule in Ireland. In India, in Ireland, and in the industrial slums of Glasgow and Liverpool, the liberal dream had died. In Britain, the Labour party was created. In 1914 subjects from all corners of the empire united for King and Country, dying in the trenches or from the catastrophic influenza epidemic of 1918. What also died was hope that the saga of the liberal empire would have a peaceful last act. ========

08 August 2008 snipped from http://www.leamingtoncourier.co.uk/news/Fighting-for-the-Empire-.4367702.jp "Unbelievable" images showing Sikh soldiers' role in the British army will be on show at Warwickshire Museum in a forthcoming exhibition. And a Sikh community group hopes the display will trigger interest in a project to trace Warwick and Leamington people's links with those who fought for the empire. More than 83,000 Sikhs were killed and 100,000 served in fields of conflict from the trenches of the Western Front to the jungles of Burma in the Second World War. The soldiers received many medals for gallantry, including several Victoria Crosses. Their story will be told on From Jawans to Generals - Loyal Allies, Proud Britons, which runs from August 22 to September 14. (more) ====================== --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

Thanks for the suggestion Lynne - unfortunately I was unable to locate Campos' book on the www.archive.org site - though did find a history of St Helena from discovery by the Portuguese until the year 1808. And to Arvind - thank you for the correction, I am deservedly red faced for not having read enough to understand the extent of the Vijayanagar Kingdom, which I now see covered (roughly) the southern half of the sub-continent. Sylvia

I believe that this book is available for download on www.archive.org You can download there in a number of formats, including text versions. Cheers, Lynne. :)) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvia Murphy" <sylcec@ihug.com.au> To: <india-british-raj@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] Arrival of the Portugese >I admit to not reading the whole of this ..... > >> The extent to which the arrival of the Portugese impacted the >> Vijaynagar Empire: >> >> http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=285880 >> > But the author doesn't seem to cover the Portuguese in Bengal, which no > doubt is why she didn't make use of that great text by J J A Campos > "History > of the Portuguese in Bengal" pub 1919, Butterworth & Co, London. Is > anyone > else familiar with this? I've had to return the library copy so can't > give > any quotes - sorry. > Sylvia > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.5.12/1595 - Release Date: 8/6/2008 > 8:23 AM > >

I admit to not reading the whole of this ..... > The extent to which the arrival of the Portugese impacted the > Vijaynagar Empire: > > http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=285880 > But the author doesn't seem to cover the Portuguese in Bengal, which no doubt is why she didn't make use of that great text by J J A Campos "History of the Portuguese in Bengal" pub 1919, Butterworth & Co, London. Is anyone else familiar with this? I've had to return the library copy so can't give any quotes - sorry. Sylvia

The extent to which the arrival of the Portugese impacted the Vijaynagar Empire: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=285880 --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar