POOR LETITIA - I WONDER WHAT SHE USED TO DO WHEN SHE WASN'T ACTUALLY GIVING BIRTH ...

John Feltham wrote: > <snip> > All yours now Harshawardhan. > > > ooroo > > If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. > John - No doubt the knock of opportunity has sounded on your door - Heed it and enjoy it! Four years of your time and patience deserve a very big "Thank you" from all us listers, however perverse we may have been at times. I can think of no better successor than the one you have chosen. Farewell to the Administrator; welcome, and a long life, to the Administrator. Yours Aye Andrew Sellon Most men want knowledge, not for itself, but the superiority which knowledge confers; and the means they employ to secure this superiority, are as wrong as the ultimate object, for no man can ever end with being superior, who will not begin with being inferior. Rev. Sydney Smith 1771-1854, Canon of St. Paul's.

22/08/2008 Chennai's founding, 369 years ago today Reliving the day British Administrator Francis Day was granted privileges in "Medraspatam" http://www.thehindu.com/2008/08/22/stories/2008082258150100.htm --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

The following is a quote from a very long entry, at http://truthseeker2473.blogspot.com/2008/08/let-truth-shine-like-rainbow.html --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar Quote Lionel Curtis founded the RIIA or the Royal Institute of International Affairs, then the RIIA help create the CFR (or the Council on Foreign Relations). He wrote books like "World War: Its Cause and Cure," and "The Capital Question of China." Lionel Curtis had a significant role in the development of the new world order. Here's Carroll Quigley's take (from his "The Anglo-American Establishment, pg. 63) on Lionel . "...Lionel Curtis is one of the most important members of the Milner Groups, or, as a member of the Group expressed it to me, he is the fons et origo. It may sound extravangant as a statement, but a powerful defense could be made of the claim that what Curtis thinks should be done to the British Empire is what happens a generation late. I shall give here only two recent examples of this. In 1911 Curtis decided that the name of His Majesty's Dominions must be changed from 'British Empire' to 'Commonwealth of Nations.' This was done officially in 1948. Again, about 1911 Curtis decided that India must be given complete self government as rapidly as conditions permitted. This was carried out in 1947. As we shall see, these are merely coincidental events, for Curtis, working behind the scenes, has been one of the chief architects of the present Commonwealth." Unquote =======================

John and Harshawardhan, Not quite on all fours but can I say 'Le Roi est mort. Vive le Roi!' Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, August 24, 2008.

Aapka Bahut Bahut Shukriya! Megan S. Mills PHD198 St Helen'sToronto CDA M6H 4A1 > From: wulguru.wantok@gmail.com> To: INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 22:12:02 +1000> Subject: [INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ] News from Admin> > G'day folks,> > Seeing as we have a bit of quiet on the List at the moment, I thought > now would be a good time to announce that I have, after nearly four > years, decided to take a rest from the Admin duties of The Raj List. > Some of you will recall that I also ran the India List for some years.> > Accordingly I have asked Harshawardhan if he would take up the duties > of Administrator. He of course has consented, thus saving me a large > bag of cash in order to travel to Nagpur, to twist his arm severely.> > This List will be four years old at the end of this year.> > I thank all Listers for their membership and their inputs over many > subjects for the life of this List.> > I will retain ownership of the List and naturally I will assist > Harshawardhan if needed. I don't think that I will be needed, but the > thought will help him.> > I am not leaving the List just taking a back seat.> > I do hope that you give Harshawardhan your support, he has as we all > know, been a big contributor to this List.> > All yours now Harshawardhan.> > > > > ooroo> > If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door.> > Anon.> > > > > -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message> >

~~ GRIN ~~ "Thank you kindly!" --Manaia

Snipped from http://www.theatlantic.com/unbound/flashbks/india.htm **** As it happens, The Atlantic's first year of publication coincided with two important occasions in Indian history. In 1857, Great Britain marked its hundredth year of rule in India. Writing in the very first issue of The Atlantic, Charles Creighton Hazewell compared that rule to "the dominion which Rome held over so large a portion of the world" but argued that the British hold over India was even more impressive. "There is nothing like the rule of the English in India to be found in history," he wrote in "British India," (November, 1857). Also in 1857, several units of the Bengal Army arose in rebellion against their British commanders; the revolt would come to be known as the Sepoy Mutiny, after the name given to native soldiers. It was the first time that the British had been seriously challenged by their Indian subjects, and the uprising spread rapidly across northern India before it was brutally suppressed. Today scholars believe that the mutiny sowed the seeds of popular resentment against British rule. But Hazewell was more skeptical, arguing in the next issue of The Atlantic "The Indian Revolt," (December, 1857) that "this great revolt had in very small degree the character of a popular uprising . . . as the vast mass of natives are in general not discontented with the English rule." Hazewell in his earlier article had in fact attributed the violence of the failed mutiny to Indians themselves: **** (More) --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

Snipped from What's caste got to do with business? Vivek Kaul Saturday, 23 August , 2008 http://sify.com/finance/fullstory.php?id=14745085 The community that seems to have made the most of the British rule were the Parsis. How did that happen? >From the late seventeenth century, the Paris evolved a very good working relationship with the British. At that point most Paris lived in the Surat-Navsari stretch of southern Gujarat and worked there as agriculturalists, artisans, small-time coastal traders and shipbuilders. They were not a part of Hindu or the Muslim mainstream. Other than this, they had been exposed to commercial influences because they lived very close to the ports of Bharuch, Daman and Surat. Therefore, to the British, they seemed like an ideal recruitment as native brokers, agents and shippers. In 1735, Lowji Nusserwanji Wadia, a shipbuilder from Surat was invited to set up a dock in Mazagon. For the next 200 years, nearly seven generations of Wadias, built around 400 ships in Mazagon and Bombay dockyards. In fact, the rise of Mumbai is very intimately linked to the Parsi migration to Mumbai. Almost as a part of a deliberate settlement policy, by 1800 the community owned half of the city and was even known to rent out property to Europeans. The Parsis also gained tremendously when the East India Company opened up the Chinese market for opium and cotton, in order to pay for the tea exported to Britain. In fact, a number of Parsis were even imprisoned by the Chinese authorities in the Opium War of 1839-1842. However, unlike the Marwaris, the Parsis were direct participants in export trade as shippers. Take the case of Jamsetjee Jejeebhoy. He used to send opium and cotton from Mumbai and Kolkotta to Canton, export Chinese tea and silk from there to London, and then reroute funds from China to India by importing textile and iron goods from Britain. However, over the years, the importance of Parsis as a business community has diminished. This is primarily because of Anglicisation and the thrust of economic activity shifting from foreign trade to producing for the domestic market. (more) --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

John Allan Broun John Allan Broun, FRS (21 September 1817, Dumfries, Scotland - 22 November 1879), was a Scottish magnetician and meteorologist who carried out his studies on magnetism in India. One of the fundamental discoveries he made was that the Earth loses or gains magnetic intensity not locally, but as a whole. He also found that solar activity causes magnetic disturbances. (more) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Allan_Broun --- Harshawardhan_Bosham Nimkhedkar

G'day folks, I have been asked, via more than one pvt email today, what my views are on the current thread on The Raj List. My view is that as long as any lister does not denigrate another Listers point of view that that, in these days, is OK. When they step over the mark, in the Administrators view then the Administrator should make a ruling. We are now at that stage. I have found the most reasonable way to settle differences is to declare a Topic or Thread "Off Topic", or "This Topic is Now Closed". Generally this has been found to be obeyed, in the past. The final moves that the administrator can take are two fold. Either turn the "Moderate all Msgs" sent to the List, or moderate the one person who will not abide by the Administrators decision. I have used the second one a few times in the past. Indeed I myself, have been placed on "moderation" on another List. It is definitely a blow to one's self esteem. But, there has to be a "Boss" and that is the Administrator. One should always remember that there are two sides to the story - and some folk are only seeing one. I'll quote a sentence form the Bible - "Why do you see the speck in your brother's eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?" Lets move on. As to "making some rules".....who was it said, "rules are there for the guidance of the wise and for the instruction of the ignorant." I for one, do not want to make rules for this List. Rules can be got around. The Administrator surely - can't be got around. The other day I mentioned, on another List, in response to another lister who wrote that "all men are born equal". My Grandfather told me often, that all men are born equal, but some are born more equal than others. I think that the List Administrator is one of those born more equal. Any discussion on this msg of mine should be taken up in pvt email to me and NOT on this List. ooroo

G'day folks, I don't know how long this web sit has been up but today was the first time that I have seen it. For those of you who have St Helen's friends or old girls, please pass n this URL, www.sthelenskurseong.com ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

Harshoo - I liked your spiel from your soap box and, as usual, your English was a delight to read. Dare I sound a note of warning? Your alliteration was excellent but perhaps bordered on tautology. Nonetheless, as far as English goes - by the living God that made you you're a better man than I am, Harshoobhai!

G'day Arvind, On 22/08/2008, at 11:44 PM, Arvind Kolhatkar wrote: > Pardon my ignorance Nemo mortalium omnibus horis sapit. > what is '40 lashes with wet noodle'? I think that you are required to exercise your imagination here.... ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

Civilised values have inspired and guided mankind since the inception of life itself.If some of these values were given the by in some eras It is not acceptable to endorse them as the values of that period.Colonialism and racism cannot be condoned by referring to them as the guiding lights of a bygone era. Mandeep On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 9:18 PM, <Haztwin@aol.com> wrote: > I've never, ever thought that Kipling's works revealed that he was an > Imperialist, but the recent correspondence has made me sit up and wonder. > I must > have another blitz on his wonderful books, and may perhaps be able to come > to > a conclusion. But even if I do find examples of imperialism on his part, > I > shall just shrug and go on reading..! LIFE'S TOO SHORT ... (or as I > rread in the cookery column of one of our newspapers, "Life's too short to > stuff > a mushroom!") > > But ,to be serious, condemning the behaviour of people from previous > centuries is not really helpful. Authors of previous centuries were > people of > their time, and to-day's morals simply cannot be brought to bear. We > goody--goody 21st century wallahs just have to take a deep breath and say, > "What > disgusting behaviour, but then that was then, and thank goodness it is not > now!" > And to go even further back, we of the 21st century love to read or to > go and see Shakespeare's works in the theatre ; .but whilst reading or > watching some of his wilder fancies we register that THAT WAS THEN and > THIS IS > NOW, THANK THE LORD. Same with some of Kipling's works. > Hazel Craig. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

G'day folks, On 22/08/2008, at 8:48 PM, megan mills wrote: << Here's to an under-reported & wonderful Indian network. As we sit before our screens, India's Freemasons continue a campaign through much of central/south India in organised Eye Camps staffed by travelling Masons, nurses and surgeons laid on -- eye glasses to treatment for infections/cataracts -- some in districts, others in the towns, anywhere that numbers of needy patients have been located. In western India, lodges do a great deal for children with multiple disabilities, those apt to be abandoned by poorer families. At least one of Bombay's several lodges is mainly Parsi -- known to generate crores, year after year, for ongoing and new projects. >> And I can report that a team of doctors and nurses from Australia visit South India doing surgery for women who have medical problems that aren't being fixed in local hospitals because the women do not have the funds to pay for the required procedures. Apparently these doctors and nurses have been visiting S India for some years now. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

G'day Manaia, On 22/08/2008, at 1:36 PM, Manaia Alofa wrote: > Okay Claire, you got it - 40 lashes - just memories, right? Oy! Please do not usurp my authority on this list. Otherwise, it will be the same for you. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

G'day Clair, On 22/08/2008, at 10:25 AM, Claire Bradley wrote: > John, forty lashes with a wet noodle for me.) Agreed. Please self-administer at dawn. No crying allowed. Noodle to be applied when frozen solid. ooroo If you don't hear the knock of opportunity - build a door. Anon.

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Feltham" > > And I can report that a team of doctors and nurses from Australia > visit South India doing surgery for women who have medical problems > that aren't being fixed in local hospitals because the women do not > have the funds to pay for the required procedures. Apparently these > doctors and nurses have been visiting S India for some years now. And one must not forget the ground breaking work attributed to another fine Australian - Fred Hollows, who gave freely of his time and expertise to the people of Nepal with his sight restoring work. The Fred Hollows Foundation established after the eye surgeon died continues his work headed by Dr. Ruit who trained with him and is now one of the world's foremost eye surgeons. Fred Hollows was appointed an Honorary Officer of The Order of Australia. Sally

Arvind is absolutely right.How can colonialism and its attendant ills be absolved through a modern day Statute of Limitations albeit reversed ? How can values and beliefs enshrined in the consciousness of humanity everlasting be classified as present day mores only ? In this List we study the Raj, its customs, history, in short all that it stood for. That does not necessarily mean endorsing or excusing it. Mandeep On Fri, Aug 22, 2008 at 8:03 PM, Arvind Kolhatkar <akolhatkar@rogers.com>wrote: > Dear Listers, > > I tend to agree with Mandeep when the question arises about applying > 'today's values' to colonial behaviors. > > Certain values are really eternal. While it may have taken some millennia > or centuries for them to be known to thinkers, they were certainly within > the realm of conscience during the times we talk of. Locke spoke of 'life > and liberty' in the 17th century and it is echoed in the Declaration of > Independence as 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are > created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain > unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of > Happiness.' Asserting the right of the common man against Authority > started > from Magna Charta. But the very people who were themselves enjoying these > hard-won rights were denying them to others. The British Parliament would > enthusiastically support every imperialistic move abroad, while enjoying > domestic democracy for themselves. > > When we see this hypocrisy, is it wrong to condemn it and is it proper to > condone it by saying that these are 'today's values'. They are NOT today's > values. They were known even then but were brazenly ignored. Why > sufficiently many thinkers did not come forward to condemn this hypocrisy > at > that very time is not a question that we of today should be called upon to > answer. > > Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, August, 23, 2008. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >