RootsWeb.com Mailing Lists
Total: 3/3
    1. [INDIA] Joseph Alexander Condell and the "Indian princess"
    2. Campbell Ford via
    3. Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry".  They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search.  Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop"  (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism.  A check for Joseph's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time.   In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoid embarrassing questions. Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife).  I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses.  He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else.  The mother of his children may have died young. I have almost all the details of his military career and his later life in Scotland (where he married, with no mention of having been previously married or widowed, and no mention of his two children, who were found living with his sister in Staffordshire) but I have found nothing about his private life In India between 1828 and 1836.  Should any of you come across any mention of anything about the Indian mother of Major Condell's children (my Indian 3xGt Grandmother, said by members of my mother's family to have been an Indian Princess!)  I would be extremely grateful.  I am now 80 years old and would love to find even the slightest piece of information, about their mother and their life in India, to give my own children and grandchildren.  The son dropped his surname Condell and retained Alexander as his surname when he joined the navy.  His sister, Mary Agnes Alexander Condell, married a tailor, James Joseph Collins, in the Stafford area and moved later to London, where the family lived for many years. It is the Indian lady I have been searching for and there may be no hope of any reference, unless, by chance mention is made of her in correspondence  - a faint hope! Surnames in this family were Condell, Collins, Sawyer and Shargool. Cam and Diana Ford Cinemagic Animated Films Pty. Ltd., 42 Valetta St., Moss Vale, NSW 2577 AUSTRALIA (02) 4868 2378

    06/15/2015 07:51:37
    1. Re: [INDIA] Joseph Alexander Condell and the "Indian princess"
    2. Joan Birtles via
    3. Hello Diana, I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org Hope this helps. Joan Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Joseph! 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    06/16/2015 07:42:31
    1. Re: [INDIA] Joseph Alexander Condell and the "Indian princess"
    2. Joan Birtles via
    3. Diana, How old were the 2 children when they returned to the UK with their father and what were their names? I'll see if I can pick up anything of interest for you. Joan Hello Diana, I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org Hope this helps. Joan Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Joseph! 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    06/16/2015 11:21:48