I have a similar story that we only realized a few weeks ago. My great great grandfather, William Saint left his English wife and children in India. He seems to have acquired a tea plantation and had a son Ralph robert saint in 1859 in Lahore. Ralph robert married Kathleen O'brien and had four children including my grandmother. Last month I had my DNA done and found I am 8% South Asian. Something we've never known about. There seems to be no record of the Indian mother. There is no record of Ralph Robert saint until he got married and had children. I now an imagining a Indian princess as my great great grandmother! Of course we will never know. I suppose it could have been an adopted child also. But he must have been half Indian. I'd love to know more. Everyone has assumed the family was only Irish/English. Kathy > On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:42 AM, Joan Birtles via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hello Diana, > I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org > > Hope this helps. > Joan > > > Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Jose! ph! > 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. > > > > Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell > (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship > with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns > out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was > normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family > somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My grandmother told me when I was about 18 that we had a "Persian princess" in our family. Since my grandmother was not known for her veracity on any subject, I simply didn't believe her and certainly didn't ask for more information. Fast forward about 65 years, and I am sorting through my deceased mother's papers. There I discover that the aforementioned grandmother was born in India, as were all her ancestors back to 1770! Google helped me further discover that the "Persian princess" was actually a MUGHAL noblewoman, who - although a "princess" - remained nameless in all documents and records. Sorry for doubting you, grandma! Like others, I have found it hard to research these relationships, but I am still working on it. And as others have noted, many concubines in that time and place became princesses in family lore, perhaps because in the early days of the British in India, Mughal rulers really did offer their daughters as a way to cement political relationships. The (London) will of my 4th gg leaves money to his "niece", who had married an English military officer and was then living in Brighton. Those of us who are searching for clues to our Indian families encounter many roadblocks put up by Victorian "morality". Anthea Tillyer On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:25, Kathy Wardwell via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I have a similar story that we only realized a few weeks ago. My great great grandfather, William Saint left his English wife and children in India. He seems to have acquired a tea plantation and had a son Ralph robert saint in 1859 in Lahore. Ralph robert married Kathleen O'brien and had four children including my grandmother. Last month I had my DNA done and found I am 8% South Asian. Something we've never known about. There seems to be no record of the Indian mother. There is no record of Ralph Robert saint until he got married and had children. > I now an imagining a Indian princess as my great great grandmother! Of course we will never know. > I suppose it could have been an adopted child also. But he must have been half Indian. I'd love to know more. Everyone has assumed the family was only Irish/English. > Kathy > > > >> On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:42 AM, Joan Birtles via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Hello Diana, >> I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org >> >> Hope this helps. >> Joan >> >> >> Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Jos! e! > ph! >> 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. >> >> >> >> Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell >> (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship >> with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns >> out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was >> normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family >> somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message