Hello List If you had ancestors who lived in Japan from 1897, you may be interested in the following item which I noticed on the FIBIS Facebook page. There is free trail for a limited period to 11 July 2015 at the British Library (London and Boston Spa) of the Japan Times Archives Online, an English language newspaper aimed primarily at overseas residents in Japan, which was commenced in 1897. You are able search the database from BL computer terminals. http://britishlibrary.typepad.co.uk/asian-and-african/2015/06/japan-times-archives-online-free-trial.html or http://tinyurl.com/p2z7dq3 The article advises: “User feedback is welcomed and will be used to determine the business case for taking out a subscription to this electronic resource” If you don’t live in England, you could enquire from your nearest University, State or National Library whether they have this resource. Cheers Maureen

Hello, Have I misread this? It seems to me that the free access is only for people attending the reading rooms. The only online bit I can see is for 1999 onwards. Tom Thompson, St Agnes.

JAC must have been quite a lad. It appears that the JAC who married Margaret Sangster at St. Cuthbert's, Edinburgh, on 26th January 1836 was the same man. You may be interested in these two headstones/graves: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=126624390&PIpi=9806622 3 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=126620597

My grandmother told me when I was about 18 that we had a "Persian princess" in our family. Since my grandmother was not known for her veracity on any subject, I simply didn't believe her and certainly didn't ask for more information. Fast forward about 65 years, and I am sorting through my deceased mother's papers. There I discover that the aforementioned grandmother was born in India, as were all her ancestors back to 1770! Google helped me further discover that the "Persian princess" was actually a MUGHAL noblewoman, who - although a "princess" - remained nameless in all documents and records. Sorry for doubting you, grandma! Like others, I have found it hard to research these relationships, but I am still working on it. And as others have noted, many concubines in that time and place became princesses in family lore, perhaps because in the early days of the British in India, Mughal rulers really did offer their daughters as a way to cement political relationships. The (London) will of my 4th gg leaves money to his "niece", who had married an English military officer and was then living in Brighton. Those of us who are searching for clues to our Indian families encounter many roadblocks put up by Victorian "morality". Anthea Tillyer On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:25, Kathy Wardwell via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I have a similar story that we only realized a few weeks ago. My great great grandfather, William Saint left his English wife and children in India. He seems to have acquired a tea plantation and had a son Ralph robert saint in 1859 in Lahore. Ralph robert married Kathleen O'brien and had four children including my grandmother. Last month I had my DNA done and found I am 8% South Asian. Something we've never known about. There seems to be no record of the Indian mother. There is no record of Ralph Robert saint until he got married and had children. > I now an imagining a Indian princess as my great great grandmother! Of course we will never know. > I suppose it could have been an adopted child also. But he must have been half Indian. I'd love to know more. Everyone has assumed the family was only Irish/English. > Kathy > > > >> On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:42 AM, Joan Birtles via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: >> >> Hello Diana, >> I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org >> >> Hope this helps. >> Joan >> >> >> Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Jos! e! > ph! >> 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. >> >> >> >> Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell >> (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship >> with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns >> out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was >> normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family >> somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. >> >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Diana, How old were the 2 children when they returned to the UK with their father and what were their names? I'll see if I can pick up anything of interest for you. Joan Hello Diana, I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org Hope this helps. Joan Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Joseph! 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello Diana, I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org Hope this helps. Joan Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Joseph! 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I have a similar story that we only realized a few weeks ago. My great great grandfather, William Saint left his English wife and children in India. He seems to have acquired a tea plantation and had a son Ralph robert saint in 1859 in Lahore. Ralph robert married Kathleen O'brien and had four children including my grandmother. Last month I had my DNA done and found I am 8% South Asian. Something we've never known about. There seems to be no record of the Indian mother. There is no record of Ralph Robert saint until he got married and had children. I now an imagining a Indian princess as my great great grandmother! Of course we will never know. I suppose it could have been an adopted child also. But he must have been half Indian. I'd love to know more. Everyone has assumed the family was only Irish/English. Kathy > On Jun 16, 2015, at 4:42 AM, Joan Birtles via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Hello Diana, > I also had the same story in my family history but on searching LDS found the baptisms of the children of my British? And native "princess". On three of the four baptisms found from 1829 to 1844 when they eventually married in Madras, the baptism record was shown in 1833 as 'his wife', in 1835 as 'his concubine' and in 1839 'a boy, illegitimate' was shown, so perhaps you may find the children in Family Search as Campbell Ford suggested. BTW my ggg grandmother's name was shown on the baptism record. Their eldest son also had children to a native woman although I cannot find a marriage record for them but her name was also mentioned on the baptisms of their children. You could also try the FIBIS site www.fibis.org > > Hope this helps. > Joan > > > Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry". They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search. Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop" (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism. A check for Jose! ph! > 's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time. In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoidembarrassing questions. > > > > Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell > (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship > with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns > out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was > normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family > somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. > > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Dian;I too have the legend of an Indian Princess in my family history (Richardson, Guinness and Hogan), and it turns out to be a family legend invented by sea captain Michael Hogan, who married Frances, the half-Indian daughter of sea captain William Richardson and his Indian housekeeper in the 1770's, and took her to New York, explaining to the locals that her exotic appearance was due to her "royal Indian ancestry".  They became a quite famous couple, in stories repeated even today (Google Hogan + Indian Princess).Half Indian children were quite common in the 1700's; you might try checking to see if the birth records of Joseph's children appear in the Indian indexes of Family Search.  Generally, for illegitimate children of such unions, the father's name only is mentioned, some times with a genteel comment such as "natural child of", or "fil pop"  (Latin shorthand for "filius populi" for a boy or "filia populi" for a girl) or some other such euphemism.  A check for Joseph's will might give you some mention of the mother; most returning Englishmen made some provision for them if they were still alive at the time.   In the strict morals of later Victorian times, such family history was swept under the carpet and fictitious details invented to avoid embarrassing questions. Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife).  I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses.  He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else.  The mother of his children may have died young. I have almost all the details of his military career and his later life in Scotland (where he married, with no mention of having been previously married or widowed, and no mention of his two children, who were found living with his sister in Staffordshire) but I have found nothing about his private life In India between 1828 and 1836.  Should any of you come across any mention of anything about the Indian mother of Major Condell's children (my Indian 3xGt Grandmother, said by members of my mother's family to have been an Indian Princess!)  I would be extremely grateful.  I am now 80 years old and would love to find even the slightest piece of information, about their mother and their life in India, to give my own children and grandchildren.  The son dropped his surname Condell and retained Alexander as his surname when he joined the navy.  His sister, Mary Agnes Alexander Condell, married a tailor, James Joseph Collins, in the Stafford area and moved later to London, where the family lived for many years. It is the Indian lady I have been searching for and there may be no hope of any reference, unless, by chance mention is made of her in correspondence  - a faint hope! Surnames in this family were Condell, Collins, Sawyer and Shargool. Cam and Diana Ford Cinemagic Animated Films Pty. Ltd., 42 Valetta St., Moss Vale, NSW 2577 AUSTRALIA (02) 4868 2378

After several attempts to post using gmail I have now signed up with Hotmail so hopefully it works this time. >> The Police pension in India would be paid in Indian Rupees not Pounds Sterling >> Penni, yes my great-grandfather's pension was paid in Rupees. The information I have is that his monthly pension in 1916 was Rs 416 : 10 : 8 per month and in brackets (£109 7s 6d). Then in 1919 the pension was adjusted to Rs 423 : 5 : 4 per month which equates to £115 : 15 per month. This pension is pre-tax. The pension was paid weekly in the amount of £37 : 4 and about £2 - 3 was deducted for tax every month. He retired at age 55 and still lived another 20 years. Using David R and Wendy's responses I can assume the pension equates to roughly £5 000 - £6 000 per month in today's terms. From the responses regarding his rank I can assume that he occupied a position 2 -3 places from the top. Now it so happens that I am also a relatively senior civil servant here in South Africa. Over the years I have worked my way up the ranks and I now occupy a position in a municipality where I am 2 spaces from the top - the top being the City Manager. Seeing as my great-grandfather's pension is more than my current regular salary perhaps I must go and have a little chat with my City Manager (wink wink). In retirement my great-grandfather lived, first, in Pembroke Road, Clifton and then in Guildford Road in Fleet, Hampshire. Can anyone tell me what type of neighbourhoods these are? i.e. posh or middle-of-the-road. I have checked out both streets on Google Street View and I see Guildford Road is situated in quite a leafy suburb. Thank you friends for an interesting thread. Stewart Green Johannesburg South Africa

Dear List, The National Archives [Kew] have a very handy currency converter... I ran Stewart's query through it and these are the results. Note that the years are presented in five yearly intervals, so 1915 is the closest to 1916. Also it has only been kept up to date to 2005. Find out how much yesterday's (1270-1970) money was worth in 2005. In 1915, £109 7s 6d would have the same spending worth of 2005's £4,709.69 So, certainly a tidy sum! The link to the currency converter is: http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/currency/ Regards, Wendy Leahy shadowsoftime.co.nz > Topic: Indian Police Pension value in today's terms > > My great-grandfather served with the Indian Police between the years > 1885 and 1916. He retired in 1916 as a District Superintendent of > Police. His monthly pension on retirement was ?109 7s 6d. I was > interested to find out how much this equates to in today?s money so I > entered the figures into an inflation calculator on the internet and > it returned a whopping ?10 045.63 per month. Could this be correct? > In my own currency this equates to ZAR200 000 a month. It seems an > awful lot of money. > > On another note, can anyone tell me how senior the rank of District > Superintendent of Police was in the hierarchy. Would there still have > been ranks above him? > > Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com > << > >

<On another note, can anyone tell me how senior the rank of District Superintendent of Police was in the hierarchy. Would there still have been ranks above him?> To get some understanding of this, please visit the following webpages. The first one is about the post-independence Indian Police Service (IPS), closely modelled after the India Police/Imperial Police (IP). It shows the shoulder tabs of different levels of Police Officers. A District Superintendent of Police is roughly in the middle of the hierarchy from Director General of Police downwards and is the police counterpart of the Deputy Commissioner/Collector of a district. It is interesting to know that that rustic folks knew the DSP as 'Kaptaan saahib' or 'Captain Sir'. The other two webpages are about the Imperial Police of British India i) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_ranks_in_India ii) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Imperial_Police iii) http://www.bl.uk/reshelp/findhelpregion/asia/india/indiaofficerecordsfamilyhistory/occupations/indianpoliceservices/police.html To get some idea about pension amounts of retired police officers, please visit the following webpage from the archives of the sister list India-British Raj. It gives some details about ICS pension around the time in question, the 1920s. i) http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA-BRITISH-RAJ/2009-11/1258039984 Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, June 15, 2015.

This war is mentioned in :- "The North-West Frontier, British India and Afghanistan, A Pictorial History 1839 - 1947", by Michael Barthorp, ISBN 0 7137 1133 7. "A Matter of Honour, An Account of the Indian Army its Officers and Men" by Philip Mason, published by Purnell Book Services Ltd., 1974. "North-West Frontier" by Arthur Swinson, published by Hutchinson of London, 1967. "The British Empire in India" by Edward Thornton Esq., published by W.H.Allen & Co. 1859. Perhaps some of these books are on-line and possibly J.Nolan may appear on a Medal List. brinds

Stewart doesn't seem to have given us his gt grandfather's name, or the District for which he was superintendent of police. By consulting issues of the India Office List, he should be able to find his ancestor's name in a hierarchical context and discover how many more ranks might be possible! On 15 June 2015 at 02:43, Ian Poyntz via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com, has asked me to post the > following message for him. He has been unable to send it himself. > > Please send replies to the list, (recommended), or directly to Stewart, NOT > to me. > > Ian, List Admin > > > >> > Topic: Indian Police Pension value in today's terms > > My great-grandfather served with the Indian Police between the years > 1885 and 1916. He retired in 1916 as a District Superintendent of > Police. His monthly pension on retirement was £109 7s 6d. I was > interested to find out how much this equates to in today’s money so I > entered the figures into an inflation calculator on the internet and > it returned a whopping £10 045.63 per month. Could this be correct? > In my own currency this equates to ZAR200 000 a month. It seems an > awful lot of money. > > On another note, can anyone tell me how senior the rank of District > Superintendent of Police was in the hierarchy. Would there still have > been ranks above him? > > Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com > << >

In terms of Rank, at that time in 1916, Moira is probably correct in what she mentioned. There were also many other District Superintendents of Police in other districts. DSPs as these ranks are refered to these days. In the present Police hierarchy, the DSP is still the top police office of a district. There are a few more senior posts/positions between the DSP rank and the Inspector General of Police - who is still the highest ranked Police Officer in the state. David Barnabas Bangalore, INDIA >>>On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 2:48 AM, Moira via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > My uncle (mother's brother) was Edward (Ted) Middleton and he was a > District Superintendent of Police in the 1930's and 1940'as which meant he > was the Chief Police Officer of a District or the top police officer of the > District. The next highest position was the very top - Inspector General > for the whole Presidency of Madras.. Thus the District Superintendent of > Police would be the second highest position in the hierarchy of the whole > Madras Presidency. The only person higher than your great-grandfather > would have been the Inspector General.<<< > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

From: dian_elvin@outlook.com To: india@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: INDIA Digest, Vol 10, Issue 100 Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 11:37:23 +0100 Dear Listers Please let me know if, by chance, you find any reference to the half-Indian children of Joseph Alexander Condell (who was in Madras as a cadet in 1805 and returned to Britain in 1836 on a ship with his two children and no wife). I have asked before and it turns out that there is often no mention of any Indian mistresses. He was normally based in Madras but may have had an illegitimate family somewhere else. The mother of his children may have died young. I have almost all the details of his military career and his later life in Scotland (where he married, with no mention of having been previously married or widowed, and no mention of his two children, who were found living with his sister in Staffordshire) but I have found nothing about his private life In India between 1828 and 1836. Should any of you come across any mention of anything about the Indian mother of Major Condell's children (my Indian 3xGt Grandmother, said by members of my mother's family to have been an Indian Princess!) I would be extremely grateful. I am now 80 years old and would love to find even the slightest piece of information, about their mother and their life in India, to give my own children and grandchildren. The son dropped his surname Condell and retained Alexander as his surname when he joined the navy. His sister, Mary Agnes Alexander Condell, married a tailor, James Joseph Collins, in the Stafford area and moved later to London, where the family lived for many years. It is the Indian lady I have been searching for and there may be no hope of any reference, unless, by chance mention is made of her in correspondence - a faint hope! Surnames in this family were Condell, Collins, Sawyer and Shargool. With best wishes Dian Montgomerie Elvin

Hello Ian, I know you wanted this addressed directly to Stewart Green, but as some have already commented here I would also like to add my 'tuppence' worth. The Police pension in India would be paid in Indian Rupees not Pounds Sterling. So the of value for the Police pension in 1916 should be calculated from Indian Rupees (IR109.7.6) In today's conversion would be about about 110 Rupees to 1 Pound, not a great amount by today's standard but in 1916 would be considered excellent. Regards Penni

£109 per month is high but not necessarily that high. Current value would depend what type of conversion rate is used and the comparison of District Police Superintendent pay rates in India with average UK pay rates in 1916 and in 2015. It also needs to be determined what the equivalent rank of a District Superintendent in India in 1916 would be in UK in 2015. The exchange rate between the rupee and pound sterling in1916 may also be significant. The comparison tables I use are based on RPI and show that £109 per month or £1300 per year in 1916 would be worth £79k per year in 2015. He possibly may have been the the equivalent of a present day Chief Superintendent whose top rate of pay would be £83k. I dont know what current police pension rates are but I would guess that an annual salary of £83k would result in an annual pension of about £55k. He could, however, have been the equivalent of an Assistant Chief Constable who could possibly be receiving a pension of about £70k in 2015. Anthea said that £5 a week in 1960 was ridiculously low. I started work in 1960 on £6 per week doing a clerical job. It was about the going rate then for a seventeen year old doing that sort of work. Some who left school at the same time as me and did the same sort of work were paid a little more but many less. That would have been higher than the starting wage of a shop assistant although the potential for higher wages for clerical work would have been greater. As a matter of interest the maximum weekly rate of pay of a professional footballer in 1960 was £20 per week in the playing season and less in the summer. David R -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 14/6/15, Anthea Tillyer via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: Subject: Re: [INDIA] Indian Police Pension value in today's terms To: "Ian Poyntz" <ian.poyntz@gmail.com>, india@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, 14 June, 2015, 19:06 What an interesting question was posed about the value in today’s money of a pension worth £109 7s 6d in 1916! I’m afraid I can’t answer the question, but I can say that when I was a university student in London in 1960, I was offered a job at EMI, in their Oxford Street record store, for FIVE POUNDS A WEEK! I didn’t take the job, and the offered wages were ridiculously low even for the time and place and the fact that I was female. But that offer of £20 a month in 1960 shows that £109 7s 6d a month in 1916 must have been a fabulous pension, possibly the equivalent of £10,000 a month today. I hope he enjoyed it! I find this list really, really interesting, and I am very glad I joined it. Anthea Tillyer On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:43, Ian Poyntz via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com, has asked me to post the following message for him.  He has been unable to send it himself. Please send replies to the list, (recommended), or directly to Stewart, NOT to me. Ian, List Admin >> Topic: Indian Police Pension value in today's terms My great-grandfather served with the Indian Police between the years 1885 and 1916.  He retired in 1916 as a District Superintendent of Police.  His monthly pension on retirement was £109 7s 6d.  I was interested to find out how much this equates to in today’s money so I entered the figures into an inflation calculator on the internet and it returned a whopping £10 045.63 per month.  Could this be correct? In my own currency this equates to ZAR200 000 a month.  It seems an awful lot of money. On another note, can anyone tell me how senior the rank of District Superintendent of Police was in the hierarchy.  Would there still have been ranks above him? Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com << ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My uncle (mother's brother) was Edward (Ted) Middleton and he was a District Superintendent of Police in the 1930's and 1940'as which meant he was the Chief Police Officer of a District or the top police officer of the District. The next highest position was the very top - Inspector General for the whole Presidency of Madras.. Thus the District Superintendent of Police would be the second highest position in the hierarchy of the whole Madras Presidency. The only person higher than your great-grandfather would have been the Inspector General. I don't know what my uncle's salary was, but he was very well paid compared to my mother who was a High School Teacher getting Rs. 150 a month. But women teachers were paid as half the men. On Jun 14, 2015, at 11:43 AM, Ian Poyntz via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com, has asked me to post the > following message for him. He has been unable to send it himself. >

What an interesting question was posed about the value in today’s money of a pension worth £109 7s 6d in 1916! I’m afraid I can’t answer the question, but I can say that when I was a university student in London in 1960, I was offered a job at EMI, in their Oxford Street record store, for FIVE POUNDS A WEEK! I didn’t take the job, and the offered wages were ridiculously low even for the time and place and the fact that I was female. But that offer of £20 a month in 1960 shows that £109 7s 6d a month in 1916 must have been a fabulous pension, possibly the equivalent of £10,000 a month today. I hope he enjoyed it! I find this list really, really interesting, and I am very glad I joined it. Anthea Tillyer On Jun 14, 2015, at 12:43, Ian Poyntz via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com, has asked me to post the following message for him. He has been unable to send it himself. Please send replies to the list, (recommended), or directly to Stewart, NOT to me. Ian, List Admin >> Topic: Indian Police Pension value in today's terms My great-grandfather served with the Indian Police between the years 1885 and 1916. He retired in 1916 as a District Superintendent of Police. His monthly pension on retirement was £109 7s 6d. I was interested to find out how much this equates to in today’s money so I entered the figures into an inflation calculator on the internet and it returned a whopping £10 045.63 per month. Could this be correct? In my own currency this equates to ZAR200 000 a month. It seems an awful lot of money. On another note, can anyone tell me how senior the rank of District Superintendent of Police was in the hierarchy. Would there still have been ranks above him? Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com << ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com, has asked me to post the following message for him. He has been unable to send it himself. Please send replies to the list, (recommended), or directly to Stewart, NOT to me. Ian, List Admin >> Topic: Indian Police Pension value in today's terms My great-grandfather served with the Indian Police between the years 1885 and 1916. He retired in 1916 as a District Superintendent of Police. His monthly pension on retirement was £109 7s 6d. I was interested to find out how much this equates to in today’s money so I entered the figures into an inflation calculator on the internet and it returned a whopping £10 045.63 per month. Could this be correct? In my own currency this equates to ZAR200 000 a month. It seems an awful lot of money. On another note, can anyone tell me how senior the rank of District Superintendent of Police was in the hierarchy. Would there still have been ranks above him? Stewart Green, stewartgreen372@gmail.com <<