Thanks Maureen I think you are right. He was still a gunner at discharge. Cheers Deirdre -----Original Message----- From: india-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:india-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Maureen Evers via Sent: Tuesday, 25 August 2015 1:57 a.m. To: india@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INDIA] JACKSON and FAIR Hello List Perhaps the record quoted by John refers to a different family, as the occupation of the father is a Corporal (?) in the Garrison Band. (as shown by the record image on findmypast), where as the man in the original post was a gunner in the Madras Artillery. Cheers Maureen

Thanks John. Unfortunately, the Muirhead name and Bombay place would make it very unlikely, I would think. Jackson is a common name - as are James and Eliza! Cheers Deirdre

Hello List Perhaps the record quoted by John refers to a different family, as the occupation of the father is a Corporal (?) in the Garrison Band. (as shown by the record image on findmypast), where as the man in the original post was a gunner in the Madras Artillery. Cheers Maureen On 24/08/2015, at 10:17 PM, John Windle via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hi Deirdre > > Does this record match for the birth of Catherine > > First name(s) Catherine Muirhead > Last name Jackson > Baptism year 1853 > Birth year 1853 > Place Bombay,St Andrew > Presidency - > Mother's first name(s) Eliza > Mother's last name - > Father's first name(s) James > Father's last name Jackson > Baptism date 8 Jan 1854 > Birth date 28 Dec 1853 > Archive reference > > Regards > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Deirdre Dale via > Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:35 AM > To: india@rootsweb.com > Subject: [INDIA] JACKSON and FAIR > > Hello List > > I am seeking assistance with finding more information about my 2 and 3 x > great grandparents in India. The family came to New Zealand in early 1864. > I will be visiting India (Bangalore/Chennai area) in Oct/Nov with the group > tour advertised through FIBIS and am endeavouring to gather as much > information as possible before then to see what might be managed while I am > on the spot. They were Roman Catholic. > > I am specifically looking for information/guidance for three specific areas: > > 1. Marriage record for James JACKSON and Eliza (?Elizabeth ?Jane) FAIR > married in Aden C1846 - she was 13 yrs old. > > 2. Any information about Eliza FAIR's parents - John FAIR and Eliza > (?Elizabeth ?Jane) nee CAREY. What could they have been doing in Aden in > 1846? Army? Navy? > > 3. Birth record for Catherine JACKSON - daughter of the James and Eliza > - born C1850 Calcutta or Madras. > > According to details on his discharge papers, James JACKSON (No. 2156) > enlisted as a Gunner in the EIC artillery, at Westminster, in 1843. His > regiment was Madras Artillery, 1st Battalion Artillery. They were > stationed in Secunderabad 1842-1854 - and in Kamptee 1854-1855. Also in > Aden in 1846 for the defence of the garrison. > > I have come across a few possibilities for a John FAIR who might have been > in Aden in 1846 but no confirming details..... > > I have found the birth details for James and Eliza's second daughter > Caroline Agnes JACKSON, born Madras, 17 October 1855, christened Kamptee, 1 > Nov 1855 > > I would be most grateful for any information, or ideas about how or where I > might find anything further - in India or elsewhere. > > Deirdre Dale > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List I am seeking assistance with finding more information about my 2 and 3 x great grandparents in India. The family came to New Zealand in early 1864. I will be visiting India (Bangalore/Chennai area) in Oct/Nov with the group tour advertised through FIBIS and am endeavouring to gather as much information as possible before then to see what might be managed while I am on the spot. They were Roman Catholic. I am specifically looking for information/guidance for three specific areas: 1. Marriage record for James JACKSON and Eliza (?Elizabeth ?Jane) FAIR married in Aden C1846 - she was 13 yrs old. 2. Any information about Eliza FAIR's parents - John FAIR and Eliza (?Elizabeth ?Jane) nee CAREY. What could they have been doing in Aden in 1846? Army? Navy? 3. Birth record for Catherine JACKSON - daughter of the James and Eliza - born C1850 Calcutta or Madras. According to details on his discharge papers, James JACKSON (No. 2156) enlisted as a Gunner in the EIC artillery, at Westminster, in 1843. His regiment was Madras Artillery, 1st Battalion Artillery. They were stationed in Secunderabad 1842-1854 - and in Kamptee 1854-1855. Also in Aden in 1846 for the defence of the garrison. I have come across a few possibilities for a John FAIR who might have been in Aden in 1846 but no confirming details..... I have found the birth details for James and Eliza's second daughter Caroline Agnes JACKSON, born Madras, 17 October 1855, christened Kamptee, 1 Nov 1855 I would be most grateful for any information, or ideas about how or where I might find anything further - in India or elsewhere. Deirdre Dale

Dear Listers, Greetings and must say its a long time since I wrote here. We are very interested in the ancestry of the Westwoods in around the Madras area and especially interested in where Moses Westwood of the 30th Foot Infantry died and was buried. Thanks Malcolm Westwood Sent from Mal's iPad

Hi Malcolm Is this the sort of year you are looking for ? Regards John First name(s) Moses Last name Westwood Birth year 1789 Age 33 Burial date 13 Jul 1822 Place Trichinopoly Presidency Madras Archive Reference N-2-8 Folio - Page 415 Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Madras, : 1698-1948 Record set British India Office deaths & burials Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Subcategory Deaths & burials Collections from Great Britain -----Original Message----- From: Malcolm & Patricia via Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 1:15 PM To: india@rootsweb.com Subject: [INDIA] Moses Westwood Dear Listers, Greetings and must say its a long time since I wrote here. We are very interested in the ancestry of the Westwoods in around the Madras area and especially interested in where Moses Westwood of the 30th Foot Infantry died and was buried. Thanks Malcolm Westwood Sent from Mal's iPad ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Deirdre Does this record match for the birth of Catherine First name(s) Catherine Muirhead Last name Jackson Baptism year 1853 Birth year 1853 Place Bombay,St Andrew Presidency - Mother's first name(s) Eliza Mother's last name - Father's first name(s) James Father's last name Jackson Baptism date 8 Jan 1854 Birth date 28 Dec 1853 Archive reference Regards John -----Original Message----- From: Deirdre Dale via Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 11:35 AM To: india@rootsweb.com Subject: [INDIA] JACKSON and FAIR Hello List I am seeking assistance with finding more information about my 2 and 3 x great grandparents in India. The family came to New Zealand in early 1864. I will be visiting India (Bangalore/Chennai area) in Oct/Nov with the group tour advertised through FIBIS and am endeavouring to gather as much information as possible before then to see what might be managed while I am on the spot. They were Roman Catholic. I am specifically looking for information/guidance for three specific areas: 1. Marriage record for James JACKSON and Eliza (?Elizabeth ?Jane) FAIR married in Aden C1846 - she was 13 yrs old. 2. Any information about Eliza FAIR's parents - John FAIR and Eliza (?Elizabeth ?Jane) nee CAREY. What could they have been doing in Aden in 1846? Army? Navy? 3. Birth record for Catherine JACKSON - daughter of the James and Eliza - born C1850 Calcutta or Madras. According to details on his discharge papers, James JACKSON (No. 2156) enlisted as a Gunner in the EIC artillery, at Westminster, in 1843. His regiment was Madras Artillery, 1st Battalion Artillery. They were stationed in Secunderabad 1842-1854 - and in Kamptee 1854-1855. Also in Aden in 1846 for the defence of the garrison. I have come across a few possibilities for a John FAIR who might have been in Aden in 1846 but no confirming details..... I have found the birth details for James and Eliza's second daughter Caroline Agnes JACKSON, born Madras, 17 October 1855, christened Kamptee, 1 Nov 1855 I would be most grateful for any information, or ideas about how or where I might find anything further - in India or elsewhere. Deirdre Dale ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Maureen This sounds very interesting Would anyone near London be able to do a look up for me? I am sure Nick would be interested too Cathy Hello List Nick, I do not know whether the following book would be of any help. It is available at the British Library and perhaps you may find it in a genealogical society reference library. "An indexed list of British marriages solemnized during extraterritoriality 1860-1899 in Japan" transcribed, indexed and introduced by Neil Pedlar. Author: Alfred Neil Pedlar, 1940- Newquay, Cornwall : Four Turnings Publications, 1993. Cheers Maureen

Hello list, It's good to read of those who were working in India, under the Raj, but who went beyond the call of duty. I am in the process of trying to put together references to my Gt.Gt.Gt. Grandfather Sir Edward Ryan, who with his wife Louisa and family, were resident in India for a number of years. He did become President of the Asiatic Society, among other posts that he held. He returned to England, and made other contributions to Victorian society. Thank you for those who already contributed, concerning his links with Julia Cameron, the Victorian photographer. Any references will be appreciated. Kind regards, Geoffrey Williams Sheffield. U.K.

Hello List Nick, I do not know whether the following book would be of any help. It is available at the British Library and perhaps you may find it in a genealogical society reference library. "An indexed list of British marriages solemnized during extraterritoriality 1860-1899 in Japan" transcribed, indexed and introduced by Neil Pedlar. Author: Alfred Neil Pedlar, 1940- Newquay, Cornwall : Four Turnings Publications, 1993. Cheers Maureen On 22/08/2015, at 6:58 AM, Nicholas Wilson via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hello Mary-Anne, > > Thank you. I have suddenly learned so much about the two Trevithick > brothers and their Japanese born families thanks to you and other kind > people on the List who responded to my query a few days back > > Previously I only knew of one off spring, Ivy, daughter of Richard; now I > know of at least four more, and their lives. Interesting how some made > their futures in England and others stayed on in Japan. Divided loyalties > and racism in both countries must have blighted their lives, poor souls. > > I was once a MN captain myself so it good to hear I had a cousin, named > Tamejiro Okuno Trevithick, who was also one! > > best wishes, > > Nick >

Nicholas I have access via NLA to the newspaper collections for Times and 19th newspapers. Only articles I found relevant to your request were in the The Cornishman (Penzance, England), Thursday, June 15, 1933; pg. 8. British Newspapers, Part III: 1780-1950. Two articles were on Francis Henry's son Tamijerio who became a merchant navy captain. I found nothing relating to family BMD in Japan in the Times digital archives I also looked at the Straits Times Archives which you also can do at http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/default.aspx. Unfortunately it is not possible to download any articles - but then it is easy to take of photo of anything you may find. I did find one article of interest but there again not related to BMD's I can send you copies of the articles from the Cornishmen. Mary Anne Gourley ps The Genealogist also has the RG series of Consular BMD but I do not have access until next week. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Hello Mary-Anne, Thank you. I have suddenly learned so much about the two Trevithick brothers and their Japanese born families thanks to you and other kind people on the List who responded to my query a few days back Previously I only knew of one off spring, Ivy, daughter of Richard; now I know of at least four more, and their lives. Interesting how some made their futures in England and others stayed on in Japan. Divided loyalties and racism in both countries must have blighted their lives, poor souls. I was once a MN captain myself so it good to hear I had a cousin, named Tamejiro Okuno Trevithick, who was also one! best wishes, Nick On 21 August 2015 at 13:36, Nicholas Wilson <wilsonnicholas90@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 21 August 2015 at 00:10, Mary-Anne Gourley via <india@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > >> Nicholas >> I have access via NLA to the newspaper collections for Times and 19th >> newspapers. >> Only articles I found relevant to your request were in the The >> Cornishman (Penzance, England), Thursday, June 15, 1933; pg. 8. British >> Newspapers, Part III: 1780-1950. >> Two articles were on Francis Henry's son Tamijerio who became a merchant >> navy captain. >> I found nothing relating to family BMD in Japan in the Times digital >> archives >> I also looked at the Straits Times Archives which you also can do at >> http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/default.aspx. Unfortunately it >> is not possible to download any articles - but then it is easy to take >> of photo of anything you may find. I did find one article of interest >> but there again not related to BMD's >> I can send you copies of the articles from the Cornishmen. >> Mary Anne Gourley >> ps The Genealogist also has the RG series of Consular BMD but I do not >> have access until next week. >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >

Hello List, Anthea, are you able to quote a British Library catalogue record, so that these records are documented for further research? I have searched in the British Library catalogue and found the odd reference here and there, but nothing which corresponds with your description which indicates many applications. Cheers Maureen On 18/08/2015, at 8:33 AM, Anthea Tillyer via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I think that Rosemary’s message (below) exemplifies the (in-my-opinion) awful situation regarding British citizenship and nationality status as it used to be when the Home Office made their determinations on a case-by-case and often capricious basis. The British Library is PACKED with records of people from all backgrounds asking about citizenship or passports, particularly after 1947. Since members of my family were among those, I have researched many of the records and am struck by the arbitrary nature of the decisions. It is appalling. People, even siblings, with exactly the same circumstances were treated differently. > > One good thing about the European Union is that it forced member countries to make transparent laws about these things and to make the laws apply to everyone equally. I am not sure if the EU has been completely successful in Britain’s case, but I think things are better and much less arbitrary than they used to be. I hate to think what will happen if Britain leaves the EU. I suppose it will go back to the same old arbitrary and personal decisions about immigration and citizenship. > > Several members of this list have described how personal appeals had to be made to the Home Office in order to get a good resolution to the issue of their status. That system was/is completely undemocratic and unfair and creates openings for corruption, racism, sexism, and just plain prejudice. > > Anthea Tillyer (who was treated just like everybody else when applying for US citizenship) > >

Would anyone know if late-19C records from St. Joseph's College, Bangalore, or Madras University exist in archives anywhere? I have a record from the Handbook for East Africa, Uganda and Zanzibar (1907) concerning James Robert WATCHAM (born c. 1882 almost certainly in Bangalore, no baptism found) who was "Ed. at St Joseph's College Bangalore; First-in-Arts Examination, Madras University;." prior to leaving India to join the Federated Malay Straits Police in September 1898 and arriving in East Africa in November 1900. It may be that one or more of James' male siblings also went to the college and/or the university. I have researched this family in some detail (children and ancestors of Robert WATCHAM m. Sarah Markham) but it would be interesting to see the education records if they exist somewhere.

To the people who have found results of DNA through ancestry....all I can see are ancestry's encoded names of relatives. How were you able to see relationships and enthnicity? Billie researching Mingail, Tekel, Komaroff in India

Hello List Linda, the only service records I am aware of are a set called IOR/V/12 Histories of Services ‎ (1875-1955), but possibly there could be others. The catalogue description says "This series includes records of service for overseas Indian Civil Service personnel and for other civil servants of gazetted rank". There is a section on the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Apothecary, in connection with using these records to search for an Apothecary . However, I have not had anything to do with these records myself. I think a person needed to be reasonably senior to appear in these records, but I expect a person sent from India to Mesopotamia would meet this requirement. http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php/Apothecary#Service_Histories Cheers Maureen On 20/08/2015, at 6:23 AM, Mark Dimberline via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Would anyone have information on the role of the civil service sent to > Mesopotamia WW1? I am specifically looking for my Grandfather's civil > service records in Madras and believe he may have been sent to Mesopotamia > in that capacity. He later transferred to the Forestry & Telegraph > Departments in the mid to late 1900s. Alternatively, if anyone can provide > the specific B/L catalogue reference would be of great help also. His name > was JAMES GERALD HALL, father's name JAMES EDWARD HALL. Any advice & help > appreciated. > > Cheers > > Linda > > > > > > > >

Nicholas, I've dug up a reference here that seems to me to indicate that marriages between a British national and a Japanese national conducted under Japanese law (lex loci) were not recognised as valid under British law until 1899, and even then British nationals living in Japan were not advised of the changes until much later. https://books.google.com.au/books?id=S6z2b44ksNUC&pg=PA395&lpg=PA395&dq=marr iages,+yokohama&source=bl&ots=hm3jnjbFjq&sig=11kNE86nVImKS7b8MpyKwMlHCXM&hl= en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAjgKahUKEwib392c_7bHAhUo3KYKHWiXCh0#v=onepage&q=marriag es%2C%20yokohama&f=false (page 395) It would seem to me from reading this reference that if the Trevithicks married according to Japanese marriage law, that is in a traditional Japanese ceremony rather than in a recognised Christian church, their marriages would not have been reported to the Registrar-General in London by the British Consular authorities in Japan, even if those authorities knew about the lex loci marriages.

Hello List Noel, in one of his recent posts, mentioned familyrelatives.com Until recently, I have used familyrelatives.com for the free British Army Overseas Index records. However I have been unable to access this site for the past few weeks, and I am wondering whether it has closed down, although I have not been able to find any information online which confirms this. I note there is a Facebook page which can still be accessed, but I cannot see anything after 22 July (presumably 2015), although I am not a Facebook member. https://www.facebook.com/Familyrelatives Does anyone know anything about Familyrelatives.com? Can anyone access the website http://www.familyrelatives.com/ ? Cheers Maureen On 20/08/2015, at 10:30 AM, Noel Clark via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Nicholas, > The usual site I use for British Overseas Marriages in family.relatives.com > but that site is not responding. Using the others, as Maureen has suggested, > draws a blank, meaning that neither marriage was a Consular Marriage as > such. >

Nicholas, The usual site I use for British Overseas Marriages in family.relatives.com but that site is not responding. Using the others, as Maureen has suggested, draws a blank, meaning that neither marriage was a Consular Marriage as such. There are Public Member Trees on ancestry that show the name of Francis Henry Trevithick's wife to be Okuno Yoshi, but no defined marriage date or place. The name of Richard Francis Trevithick's wife does not appear to be known at all. There are details of some of the brothers' children on ancestry as well. Generally, Google and Google Books searches throw up all sorts of references to the two brothers, but even RFT's obituary makes no reference to his wife. Apparently Francis Henry had two sons whose descendants remain in Japan and use the surname Okuno. One thing I have not tried is whether there are any newspaper references to either of the bothers - you could try The Times Digital Archive and 19th Century British Newspapers.

Hello List, Ali, if you are interested in old postcards, here are links to five.The first two links are to the largest version. Civil Hospital, Nathiagali showing Mokhshpuri & Dungagali in the back. http://www.stamps-auction.com/show-lot-print.php?lot_id=71424 http://tinyurl.com/prow73r http://tinyurl.com/og4qzdc Tennis Court and The Club. Nathiagali. http://www.stamps-auction.com/show-lot-print.php?lot_id=131254 http://tinyurl.com/q2sek7g http://tinyurl.com/qbn7dhg Government House Nathiagaly http://www.stamps-auction.com/show-lot-print.php?lot_id=128055 http://tinyurl.com/okhjfvj http://tinyurl.com/o8qwaqj Miranjani - Government House Nathiagaly http://www.stamps-auction.com/show-lot-print.php?lot_id=128054 http://tinyurl.com/o9tzonz http://tinyurl.com/q6b5fsm On The Top Road Between Dungagali & Nathiagali http://www.stamps-auction.com/show-lot-print.php?lot_id=156733 http://tinyurl.com/phlsb65 http://tinyurl.com/p8jm5p9 Cheers Maureen > > On 19/08/2015, at 6:38 AM, Ali Khan via <india@rootsweb.com> wrote: > >> Looking for any info pix of the above. >> Ali >> >