This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: KevinLaing35 Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.asia.india.general/2527/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi, I am trying to find out Maiden name of my wifes Grandmother who was born in 1917 died 1942 in India(from death details on LDS) I know they had their 1st child in 1937 so I'm presuming married in 1935/36 but I can't find any record online any where,was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of where to look next(would the British Libary be the only place?) Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

Re:  Will dated 7 Jan 1844 proved 19 Jan 1846 for Major William Brown 69th Bengal, N. I.: This Will would be available on a microfim from your nearest LDS library.  The film of the Bengal Wills and Admins 1846 Pts 1 & 2 should be the right one. Reference. FHL British Film 510937.  When you ask them to order it for you also ask them to check it is the correct one. This would be the same film that you would be expecting at the British Library. Tomas Christie

I am keen to make contact with anyone who might be related through Rev. William Kirkpatrick who married Amelia Fenwick and they had four Children one of whom was Walter Herbert Kirkpatrick who married Grace Isabella Fenwick and between them they Had ELEVEN childrenone off whom was my grandfather. Hopeing to hear from someone Thanks Sidney

Speaking of cemeteries, how would one find out which cemetery a family member is buried in if they died in India? Would they have been buried in India? Would they have shipped the bodies back to Scotland? Thanks, Elaine

Thank you, Tomas, for the information. My FHL is not so close anymore so I will try and get down there whenever I can and order this film. Elaine Sharp This Will would be available on a microfim from your nearest LDS library.  The film of the Bengal Wills and Admins 1846 Pts 1 & 2 should be the right one. Reference. FHL British Film 510937.  When you ask them to order it for you also ask them to check it is the correct one. This would be the same film that you would be expecting at the British Library. Tomas Christie

Hello List Further to the previous correspondence, here are some more references to Captain James Stewart. This link, page 57 from Battles of the Honourable East India Company: Making of the Raj by M. S. Naravane says that Capt Stewart prior to the expedition had visited Poona and made secret observations of the Marathas and had written a report, one of two which convinced the Bombay government a successful war could be waged. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=bxsa3jtHoCEC&pg=PA57 or http://tinyurl.com/2cebydy This link, page 126 (onwards) from A history of the Maratha people, Volume 3 (1750-1818)] by C.A Kincaid and R B D B Parasnis 1918 Archive.org gives details of Capt Stewart's death when he climbed a tree to reconnoitre the enemy's position. CA Kincaid was the author of the book on Captain Stewart mentioned in an earlier email http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofmaratha03kincuoft#page/126/mode/2up/s earch/Stewart or http://tinyurl.com/25rchnw This link from the Chandigarh Tribune Online 17 November 2003 about a current battalion states it traces its history to 1778 when it was raised by Capt James Stewart at Mumbai as an ad hoc Grenadiers battalion by taking two Grenadiers companies each from the three sepoy battalions of the erstwhile Bombay Army. http://www.tribuneindia.com/2003/20031118/cth1.htm#9 or http://tinyurl.com/2bhr4fa The FIBIS Fibiwiki has the page 101st Grenadiers http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=101st_Grenadiers which gives brief details, including the link just mentioned. 17th-18th Century Burney Collection Newspapers, has an item from Gazetteer and New Daily Advertiser (London, England), Friday, September 10, 1779; Issue 15 781 "Extract of a Letter from an Officer at Bombay, March 16,1779". All that is said about Capt James Stewart, was he was killed, along with the second in command Lieutenant Colonel Cay , and they were "two of our best officers". Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

Dear Maureen: I have gone through the references that you have so kindly dug out . Capt Stewart was an astute man and did the reconnoitering prior to the invasion of the Deccan plateau by the Bombay Army. These observations were put down and accepted by the the then Bombay Presidency Government. The Kincaid and Parasnis paragraph is interesting. While we know that the death of Capt Stewart took place according to records at about 1400 hrs on 04 Jan 1779 I did not know that he was reconnoitering the place from the top of a tree when the cheering Maharattas fired their cannons at him and brought that tree down. One account is that he was shot in the back on the left side near the shoulder. I have the Burney Collections where "an officer" report to the paper about the Talegaon goings on . The Chandigarh Tribune however definitely states that he raised the 1st Grenadiers. The problem still remains as to who Capt Stewart was. 1: Was he of the Native infantry or the European Infantry or the Artillery? Was he a ceded officer from HM forces some of whom were around at that time. To have been a Grenadier he must have been an impressive sight as the Grenadiers were known to be strong and large as their main task was to hurl the primitive form of grenade manually. He was also very much "into" the Indian situation to enable him to reconnoiter positively!! 2: He was the ADC to the Gov. of Bombay William Hornby. he must have been both smart and astute. 3: I have gone through the Army lists of both he Madras and Bengal armies but don't find his name there. I have not been able get my hands on the Bombay army lists.I should like to know where he came from. The preliminary probe shows a confusing commonality of names with other James Stewarts too!! I have check out the Black Watch regiment too - there is no James Stewart of our vintage. I will attach an image of his memorial stone that I picked up and send it separately. Thank you again and do help me try to find out who James Stewart was. Sincerely John Dr. John A.Thomas,MD,FRCPath, FAMS

I am keen to make contact with any relations or researchers of my ancestor, Manoel Francis Esperance, J.P., Banker (1844 - 1900) of Bombay, India. Here are some notes on him and his family: Manoel Francis ESPERANCE J.P. (1844 – 1900) was born about October 1844. Rose Mary ANNUNCIATION (1849 – 1930) was born on January 27th., 1849. About 1866, they were married and lived on the south side of Hill Road, in Bandra West, in Bombay. This family spoke English and Portuguese fluently, at home. Manoel was Superintendent of the Public Debt Office, of the Bank of Bombay, later known as Imperial Bank of India. Manoel died, aged 55 years and 10 months, on August 24th., 1900 and Rose Mary, aged 82, on December 22nd., 1930; they were both interred, with m.i., in the churchyard of St. Peter’s Church, Bandra. Manoel and Rose Mary had issue: A. John Joseph ESPERANCE LL.B., born about 1867. On February 6th., 1899, in St. Andrew’s Church, Bandra, John married Marie Kate FERNANDES. They had five children: B. Anne Frances Isidora ESPERANCE, born about 1869. About 1887, Isidora married William Francis ROWE. They had seven children. C. Rose Mary ESPERANCE, born on July 23rd., 1870. On February 2nd., 1891, in St. Peter’s Church, Bandra, Rose Mary married Joseph BOCARRO. They lived in Bandra and they had eight children. D. Natalia ESPERANCE, born in the 1870s. Natalia married Gabriel H. MISQUITTA and they had four children. E. Manoel Francis ESPERANCE, born in the 1870s. Manoel married Mary MISQUITTA and they had no issue. F. Julia Clotilda ESPERANCE, born on July 10th., 1881. About 1902, Julia married Alfred Joseph DIAS. They lived in St. Sebastian’s Colony, Bandra, Bombay, where they had eight children. Best wishes. Peter Ferreira Toronto, Canada.

Hello List Elaine said: On his entry, it mentions his father but not his wife even though she collected a pension on his service. Is that a norm? Also, it mentions a will and a date for such, can anyone guide me on how I might obtain a copy of said will. How do I obtain his wife Janet Brown's pension records. Would it be in included in Chelsea pensioners records? The FIBIS data base has a reference to a Bengal will for William Brown for 1846. Refer the FIBIS Fibiwiki article "Wills, Administrations, Probate and Inventories" for information about obtaining a copy of the will. http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Wills,_Administrations,_Probate_and_In ventories I can't find any references about widow's pension records which relate to the Bengal Army. If such records exist, they would be in the India Office records at the British Library. If Elaine is referring to the Chelsea pensioner records WO97 which are on the website Findmypast, these are in respect of the British Army, not the East India Company armies and are discharge papers for soldiers, not officers. The fact that there were no details of William Brown's wife in the Hodson book entry perhaps suggests it was not widely known that William Brown was married and that therefore his wife never went to India Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

Maureen and others, Re: Will dated 7 Jan 1844 proved 19 Jan 1846 for Major William Brown 69th Bengal, N. I.: I contacted the British Library and they advised that "the volume has been microfilmed (our ref. IOR Neg. 8371), Major Brown's will is indeed held here, within part one of the volume @ shelfmark L/AG/34/29/73. Having traced this reference in an index I assume that this is the right person, his name obviously being an extremely common one; he died in what was then the Bombay Presidency of British India, whereas the will was proved under the jurisdiction of the Bengal Presidency." Does anyone have access to this will record who can help me obtain a copy of it as the cost for me to obtain it from the Library is not feasible at this time. I am willing to reimburse reasonable costs. Elaine Sharp Folsom CA USA

Hello, Could any body help me with the Baptisms of the following children, Name Edward Manning READ, Baptism 20 September 1899 Calcutta, Bengal, India Father name Edward Arthur Read Mother name Lily Manning Batch no C75065-4 Film number 512376 Also Lilian Harper Read Baptism 20 September 1899 Calcutta. I have found this detail on the Family Search Beta site I am sure the father should read Edward Harper Read. If somebody is going to the British India Library I would be most grateful to have this checked Thank you regards John

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: highland_denny Surnames: Palmer Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.asia.india.general/2526.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Hi, Thanks for the info about the link to Burma, I hadn't heard about that before. Do you know what your father was doing in Burma, was it fire brigade or army or something else? Do you know which years he was in Burma? I have recently found passenger list entries showing my great-uncle Harold Palmer returning to the UK from Bombay in 1935 and going back again to Bombay in 1936 - both times he states that he is in the Fire Brigade and that his country of permanent residence is India. So maybe he went to Burma when WW2 started? Yes I am in Scotland - near Inverness. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.

I am a new subscriber to the mailing list and am hoping for some insight into finding information for ancestors in India. I have Alexander Cantem born 1883 Rajkot and Ivy Peabody born about 1901 marrying about 1920. I would like to be able to locate further information on this couple and their ancestors. Any assistance greatly appreciated. Regards Ron Allen Australia

Thank you, thank you, thank you one and all!! Now that I have the information including birth/death dates, for the William Brown I am researching, which has allowed me to also find his baptism record and the names of both his parents, I have one more question (for now). On his entry, it mentions his father but not his wife even though she collected a pension on his service. Is that a norm? Also, it mentions a will and a date for such, can anyone guide me on how I might obtain a copy of said will. How do I obtain his wife Janet Brown's pension records. Would it be in included in Chelsea pensioners records? I would still be swimming the Pacific Ocean without your help! Elaine Sharp Sacramento CA USA

Thanks very much indeed - I'll check out the films. Regards Rebecca

Thanks Mary Ann. It looks as though I may be barking up the wrong tree - there was always a possibility of this as I was taking someone else's word that Thomas of the 67th was my man. I will have to delve deeper. Thanks once again. Regards Rebecca

In a message dated 8/31/2010 7:30:35 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bellemarco@gmail.com writes: I have a death record for Janet Brown,1863, Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland, and it says she is the widow of Major William Brown 69 Bengal, N. I. She was getting some sort of pension, I believe on his service. Does anyone have any information on Major William Brown from Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland? He and Janet married in Stewarton in 1813. I don’t know when or where he died. Their only child was born later in 1813. I cannot find the family in the 1841 Scotland census, but I do find Janet and her daughter and family in the 1851 Scotland census and Janet is listed as “annuitant”. In 1861 census, she is listed as “widow of a Major.” Elaine, Major William Brown's entry in Officers of the Bengal Army 1758-1834, Vol. I, by Major V.C.P. Hodson, is as follows: BROWN, WILLIAM (1795-1845). Bt. Major, 69th N.I. b. Stewarton. co. Ayr, 29 Dec. 1795. Cadet 1813. Admitted 28 Oct 1814. Ensign (16 Dec. 1814) . 5 June 1815. Lieut. 17 May 1816. Capt. 15 Oct. 1828. Bt. Major 23 Nov. 1841. d. Sukkur, Sind, 11 Sept. 1845. Son of Andrew Brown, writer. Services: Posted as Ensign to 19th N.I. Asst. Revenue Surveyor at Delhi 29 Dec. 1822. Transfd. to 1st Extra Regt. (became 69th N.I.) in 1826. Revenue Surveyor at Saharanpur 17 Nov. 1826, and passed the greater part of his service in the Survey Dept. Operations on N. Sind frontier against the Hill tribes 1844-5. Refs.: Will dated 17 Jan. 1844; proved 19 Jan. 1846. I hope this is helpful. Tim

Hello List: Elaine said: I have a death record for Janet Brown,1863, Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland, and it says she is the widow of Major William Brown 69 Bengal, N. I. She was getting some sort of pension, I believe on his service. Does anyone have any information on Major William Brown from Stewarton, Ayr, Scotland? He and Janet married in Stewarton in 1813. The FIBIS Database has a reference for a Bengal Officer William Brown 1795 -1845 which could possibly be him, although it would mean he married at age 18. The reference is to an entry in the book "List of the Officers of the Bengal Army, 1758-1834" by V. C .P. Hodson, which is available on LDS microfilm, if Elaine does not have access to this book in a library. For details refer the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Bengal Army http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Bengal_Army Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

In my last message to the list I mentioned that I am a direct descendant of Thomas Hall and his wife Eleanor - I have been told by various people that her maiden name was Penfold - which so far I have not been able to prove. To the best of my knowledge and research Thomas and Eleanor _did not_ have a son named George. I have also been told that he [Thomas] died in 1822 - at "the Khyber Pass" or "In Bombay". However his name does appear in various publications - one mentioned recently on this list with the date of 1837, therefore it may be that _the_ Thomas Hall husband of Eleanor[Penfold] was very much alive after 1837. I am still searching. Mary Anne Melbourne

I subscribed to Findmypast (using least credits) and found this record. William Brown dob 1784, Kilmarnock, Ayrshire, Scotland 18 years, Attestation date: 25 November 1802 to 1835, Discharge rank: Serjeant Corps: Royal Ayrshire Regt of Militia. I take it he is not the one I am looking for as there is nothing listed under "In East of w. India." There are many more William Brown's listed, one that says 2nd Regt. Life Guards, which I also assume is not him and I cannot afford to look at each and every one of these, especially when there are no places of birth or year of birth listed and I do not know the year of birth. Any ideas? Starting with 60 credits, I now have only 20 left after this record! Elaine Sharp The FIBIS Database has a reference for a Bengal Officer William Brown 1795 -1845 which could possibly be him, although it would mean he married at age 18. The reference is to an entry in the book "List of the Officers of the Bengal Army, 1758-1834" by V. C .P. Hodson, which is available on LDS microfilm, if Elaine does not have access to this book in a library. For details refer the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Bengal Army http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Bengal_Army Cheers Maureen (Sydney) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message