Hi, 1861 Census Devonport, Devon Ellen Brown. age 24. Born Bombay, India. Mother Harriet E. Brown. age 56. Born Bermondsey, Surrey Father Col.Brown . H.E.L.S. Brother Albert A. age 19. born ?? Clifton Sister Georgina H. age 12. Born india Sister in law Augusta Jolliffe. age 60. Born Surrey cheers pat nz > From FIBIS I have from the Bengal Military Orphan Society > Child Surname: Brown > Child Forename: Ellen > DOB: 10 Sep 1840 > Date of Admission: Arrived in England 24 April 1849 > Fathers Name: Bt Major W Brown > To who pension payable: Agents > Date of Discharge: 26 May 1853 > Remarks: Dead (Name crossed through on original document) > > My questions what is the significance of "Name crossed through on original > document". What proof is there that she was "dead". And when and where did > she die? In England or India? I found her in the 1851 census in Bristol, > Clifton, Gloucestershire, England living with a Henry Marshall and family > and she is listed as Ellen Brown, 11, "Scholar" b. India. The US Ancestry > World index has her incorrectly listed as age 14 but if you look at the > record, it is 11. How do I find out when/where she died? If she died in > 1853, it is 2 years after this census and she would have been 13 years > old. > So far, I cannot find her on England death records I have available to me > on Ancestry World. > > Thank you. > Elaine Sharp > California USA > ===== India Mailing List ===== > > Families in British India Society: http://www.fibis.org > > > Archives for this list can be found at: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA > and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

A Mr + Mrs Nicholls had a child, Dorothy Saville Nicholls, supposedly born in 1893, in England. Shortly after the birth of the child, Mr + Mrs Nicholls and daughter, Dorothy, moved to India. Soon after the move Mr Nicholls died and Mrs Nicholls remarried to a Mr Fraser. Mrs Fraser, formerly Nicholls, then died. Daughter, Dorothy Saville Nicholls was then adopted by John + Emily Wright. This adoption was arranged by Emily's sister, Mrs Moulton nee Reese. The adoption is thought to have taken place in Bombay. I have tried to find the real parents of Dorothy Saville Nicholls in England but there is no record of a birth of anyone of this name nor of any likely marriage of her parents. I have in the past made contact through the list with relations of the Wrights who have confirmed the adoption but have had no success in finding Dorothy's birth or her ancestry. I suppose that it is possible that Dorothy Saville Nicholls was born in Scotland or Ireland or perhaps in India. Does anyone have any ideas? Thank you. David

Hello List Peter said: What would be my best, and most available, source, for the Parish Registers, about the 1790s, of the (Catholic) Cathedral of Our Lady of Hope, Buleshawar, Bombay? That Cathedral has long been demolished, and its PR are kept in the nearby Church of Our Lady of Health, Cavel, Bombay. Baptisms and marriages, in that Catholic Cathedral do not seem to appear, at all, the listings and Mormon films of the Bombay Presidency. Assuming there is nothing in the British Library records, and as there do not seem to be LDS microfilms, Peter may need to contact the church which hold the records in India and/or the Diocesan Office probably the latter initially. I have not tried to do this myself, but the impression I get is that letters to India are hardly ever answered, and it is really necessary to go to India yourself. But perhaps others can comment on this aspect The FIBIS Fibiwiki has pages "Church records" and "Bombay(City)" which give links to the Diocesan Office and some background information. http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Church_records http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Bombay_(City) Cheers Maureen(Sydney)

Hi, I've been looking for the MILNER family for some time. I know that Emanuel (Manuel) Milner was born in York, England 27 March 1859 but went out to India at some time in his life. I also know that his son, Cecil Percival Milner was born in Lucknow 6th October 1888. The email from Lynne Simpson (36th Regiment of Foot) gave me reason to wonder if, perhaps, Emanuel (the father) may have also served in Lucknow? It was obviously at a later date than Lynne's George Garlic (1863-76) and I have no proof that the family were 'army' folk. There were later children and I have their birth dates but not the place of birth: Lyttleton Milner born 1887 John Edward Milner 28th February 1900 Carey Milner 1902. They all ended up living in Calcutta and I would be delighted if anyone could perhaps suggest where to search for any information at all about the above. Thanks in anticipation for any information/advice, Myra ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynne Simpson" <lsimpson@netspeed.com.au> To: <india@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 8:04 AM Subject: [INDIA] 36th Regiment of Foot >>

Mark, Thank you for the suggestion, but I have the will of Edward RIST and it is the shortest I have seen yet - 20 lines, most of which is formulaic and in legalese (if that's a word) and I am having difficulty deciphering it. He leaves his possessions to Mary RIST (assume his wife) and OUR children, which suggests that Mary Agnes may have siblings. Any suggestions as to how I discover where Mary Agnes was born and when, as it is before GRO records (have tried subscribing to Find My Past but nothing shows up) and her potential siblings? The SHIRREFS clan are Aberdeen Scots and thankfully Scotland's People has superb parish records available for a fee online, any suggestions about England pre 1837 for those of us in the Antipodes? Thanks Again Robin -----Original Message----- From: india-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:india-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Mark Steevens Sent: Saturday, 25 September 2010 17:30 To: india@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [INDIA] SHIRREFS - RIST - ROBINSON Robin, you may find some clues in Edward Rist's will, which can be purchased as a PDF from the National Archives. The search page is found at http://tinyurl.com/7kqoz . The service is excellent and your documents will be with you within a few seconds of your payment being made. good luck, Mark ===== India Mailing List ===== Families in British India Society: http://www.fibis.org Archives for this list can be found at: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List Robin said: I am trying to trace ancestors of Mary Agnes RIST, who married my 3xGGG Alexander SHIRREFS in St George's church, Madras in 1831.In the light of the reference to Rev Thomas ROBINSON at St Mary's Leicester in the death certificate for Mary Agnes' father, Edward, I went hunting for another Rev. ROBINSON who was an archdeacon in Madras around this time and found another Rev Thomas ROBINSON (possibly the son of the one in Leicester).Mary Agnes and Alexander did call one of their ten children Thomas Robinson SHIRREFS, so it looks like this idea has some value. The problem I am having is that I am struggling to verify the links to the ROBINSON family. I am also struggling to understand how Mary Agnes RIST, who if census records are correct would have been 4 years old when her father died, ended up being married in Madras at 18 years old. It sounds very likely that Rev Thomas Robinson is a relation of Mary Agnes Rist, either a maternal uncle or a cousin or some other connection. Mary Agnes could have become an orphan in the care of Rev Robinson. However it is quite likely that Mary Agnes was sent out to India by her mother when she reached a marriageable age. It would be easier for her to be married in India with the help of Rev Robinson's contacts and the large number of unmarried men, compared with the social contacts a widow would have back in England. I think it was quite a recognised practice. I remember reading of one Irish family , where one by one, twelve daughters were sent to India to be married. Some girls were also sent from Australia if there were connections in India. Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

Hi Peter: Lynne Rebeiro from Toronto, Canada -- your updated meeting information is now in www.anglo-indians.com. Thanks for keeping us informed. Best wishes, Lynne Lynette (Lynne) Rebeiro Assistant Compiler: www.anglo-indians.com > From: fibis-chairman@fibis.org > To: INDIA-L@rootsweb.com > Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 11:32:30 +0100 > Subject: [INDIA] FIBIS Open Meeting > > For those who can make it to London on 13th November, this is an advance > announcement of FIBIS 'Autumn Open Meeting' > > FIBIS 'Autumn Open Meeting' is to be held at 1.00 p.m. for a start at 1.30 > p.m. on Saturday, 13th November, 2010 at Hughes-Parry Hall, University of > London, > 19-26, Cartwright Gardens, London WC1H 9EF. A map of how to get there is > available on the FIBIS web-site at www.fibis.org/meetings.htm (Click on > address) > > After our Annual General Meeting, the two lectures to be held are: > > 1.. "The East India Company in London - Its Directors " by Richard Morel > of British Library > 2.. "Identifying the Founding Soldiers of the East India Company's Armies > " by Peter Bailey, FIBIS Chairman > > > ADDITIONALLY, on that morning - and at the same location - for any visitor > with brick walls to jump in their ancestral research, a few experienced > researchers will be available from 10.00 a.m. to 12.30 a.m. in a > first-come-first-served "Surgery" to answer questions and to offer advice. > In response to many requests, we shall focus for part of the time on > obtaining full benefit from the FIBIS web-site. > > All interested are welcome to attend - and NO CHARGE will be made. We do, > however, request that those wishing to attend would please advise Emma > Sullivan, FIBIS Membership Secretary, on Membership@fibis.org as much in > advance as possible, but in any case before Sunday, 7th November. > > Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can make it > > Good Hunting! > Peter Bailey > Chairman > Families in British India Society > www.fibis.org > > > > > > > ===== India Mailing List ===== > > Families in British India Society: http://www.fibis.org > > > Archives for this list can be found at: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA > and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List *You may not be aware the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City, USA provides a photocopy service. The procedure is set out in the Family Search Wiki article "Photoduplication Services" https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Photoduplication_Services The microfilm number and page number must be supplied. Copies provided through this service cost U.S.$2.00 each, with a U.S.$4.00 minimum charge per order. This service may be an option if you only require a small number of pages from one film, or if a Family History Centre is not geographically convenient for you. *For those with access to London, the London Family History Centre has its own website http://www.londonfhc.org which also includes a search facility in respect of the microfilms they have onsite. This means you may not need to order a film if it's already available *These details have been included in the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Family History Centres http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Family_History_Centres Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

For those who can make it to London on 13th November, this is an advance announcement of FIBIS 'Autumn Open Meeting' FIBIS 'Autumn Open Meeting' is to be held at 1.00 p.m. for a start at 1.30 p.m. on Saturday, 13th November, 2010 at Hughes-Parry Hall, University of London, 19-26, Cartwright Gardens, London WC1H 9EF. A map of how to get there is available on the FIBIS web-site at www.fibis.org/meetings.htm (Click on address) After our Annual General Meeting, the two lectures to be held are: 1.. "The East India Company in London - Its Directors " by Richard Morel of British Library 2.. "Identifying the Founding Soldiers of the East India Company's Armies " by Peter Bailey, FIBIS Chairman ADDITIONALLY, on that morning - and at the same location - for any visitor with brick walls to jump in their ancestral research, a few experienced researchers will be available from 10.00 a.m. to 12.30 a.m. in a first-come-first-served "Surgery" to answer questions and to offer advice. In response to many requests, we shall focus for part of the time on obtaining full benefit from the FIBIS web-site. All interested are welcome to attend - and NO CHARGE will be made. We do, however, request that those wishing to attend would please advise Emma Sullivan, FIBIS Membership Secretary, on Membership@fibis.org as much in advance as possible, but in any case before Sunday, 7th November. Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can make it Good Hunting! Peter Bailey Chairman Families in British India Society www.fibis.org

I am trying to trace ancestors of Mary Agnes RIST, who married my 3xGGG Alexander SHIRREFS in St George's church, Madras in 1831 - 9 April 1831 Marriage Date 9 - Apr Marriage Year 1831 Husband First Names A. Husband Surname Shirrefs Wife First Names Mary Agnes Wife Surname Rist IOR Reference None Source Year 1832 Source Edition 2 Source Presidency Madras Source Event Marriage Entry At Madras, A. Shirrefs, Esq., 1st batt. pioneers, to Mary Agnes, daughter of the late Edward Rist, Esq., of the India House and niece of the Archdeacon. >From the reference to the late Edward RIST in marriage certificate I found his early death - Surname Rist First names Edward Unit Treasury at East India House Death date 7 Jun 1817 Place of death Stoke Newington Source Gentleman's Magazine Date Jun 1817 Page number 573 Detail At Barratt-grove, Stoke Newington, aged 33, Edward Rist, esq. of the Treasury, East India-house, and son-in-law to the late Rev. Thomas Robinson, vicar of St. Mary's, Leicester. In the light of the reference to Rev Thomas ROBINSON at St Mary's Leicester in the death certificate for Mary Agnes' father, Edward, I went hunting for another Rev. ROBINSON who was an archdeacon in Madras around this time and found another Rev Thomas ROBINSON (possibly the son of the one in Leicester). Mary Agnes and Alexander did call one of their ten children Thomas Robinson SHIRREFS, so it looks like this idea has some value. The problem I am having is that I am struggling to verify the links to the ROBINSON family. I cannot find Mary Agnes RIST's birth as indexes for UK only started in 1837 and she must have been born before this. Census information for Scotland (where she was in 1861, 71, 81 and 91) indicate a birth in London around 1813. I am also struggling to understand how Mary Agnes RIST, who if census records are correct would have been 4 years old when her father died, ended up being married in Madras at 18 years old. Any ideas folks? Regards Robin

Robin, you may find some clues in Edward Rist's will, which can be purchased as a PDF from the National Archives. The search page is found at http://tinyurl.com/7kqoz . The service is excellent and your documents will be with you within a few seconds of your payment being made. good luck, Mark

No will, Ainslie, but there are NZ Army records from WW1 at the NZ archive site below which may help: Just search on 'James Jesse Stroud'. http://archway.archives.govt.nz/SimpleSearchResults.do All the best Peter

Hello Ainslie, A will for James Jesse Stroud in not in our Archives website, but his WW1 records are available. There is no death for him in the BMD website, suggesting he died other that New Zealand. Lorraine in NZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ainslie Pyne" <woodart@woodart.com.au> To: <india@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [INDIA] FIBIS record question -Question of Wills. > Hi folks, > > I was wondering if it was routine that all soldiers in the British Army > posted to a foreign posting to have a Will made out? > > My grandfather James Jesse Stroud joined up in his teenage years and > married in 1906 in Bombay in his mid 20s They left India for a new life > in New Zealand in 1907. > Could someone please tell me where I would need to start looking for > this Will - if it existed? > > Cheers > Ainslie. > > > > > ===== India Mailing List ===== > > Families in British India Society: http://www.fibis.org > > > Archives for this list can be found at: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA > and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Lorraine, Thanks for your reply to my question to the list. I do have his NZ WW`1 records already. I have still to obtain his British India Army records covering the period he was in India etc. I just wondered if he had to make a Will prior to being sent abroad from England in case of an accident while on duty. My grandfather died in 1951. The NZ Defence Dept was notified - and there is an official notification on his file which I have received. The Dept would have had to be notified as he was on a Service Pension. My query re a possible Will being made when he enlisted in the British Army followed on some other question to the British India list from someone else - hence my post asking if it was a common enough procedure for all service personnel when they were posted abroad and if so where would these have been kept? At the point of his enlistment in the BA he was in his teens and not married at the time. Given that he was not just a member of a Military Band but from my vague memories of his stories of the life in India he was also expected to take part in any military action the chance of a fatal wound would surely have meant these men had to have made some provision for their possessions and belongings - hence the idea of a Will or some documentation retained by the military so that next of kin could be notified in the event of illness or death. Thanks again for your reply, Cheers Ainslie

What would be my best, and most available, source, for the Parish Registers, about the 1790s, of the (Catholic) Cathedral of Our Lady of Hope, Buleshawar, Bombay? That Cathedral has long been demolished, and its PR are kept in the nearby Church of Our Lady of Health, Cavel, Bombay. Baptisms and marriages, in that Catholic Cathedral do not seem to appear, at all, the listings and Mormon films of the Bombay Presidency. Best wishes. Peter Ferreira Toronto, Canada.

Hi folks, I was wondering if it was routine that all soldiers in the British Army posted to a foreign posting to have a Will made out? My grandfather James Jesse Stroud joined up in his teenage years and married in 1906 in Bombay in his mid 20s They left India for a new life in New Zealand in 1907. Could someone please tell me where I would need to start looking for this Will - if it existed? Cheers Ainslie.

Hi Elaine, If you found her in England she was probably sent there to be educated therefore she may still be in same place. Therefore try Free BMD, if you find a likely death the only way to prove it would be to get the certificate but you may be lucky. If you are not familiar with the Free BMD site "google" it to reach it. Regards Mary

Hi, I found this: marriage banns pg 61 no 237 4 april 1795 St. Pancras Parish church Camdon Edmund Pascal to Mary Hartley of Burton in the County of York also the only info from a family tree so not sure how accurate Frances Pascal spouse Alexander Murray Marriage 23 May 1773 Madras Death 1786 Edinburgh, Scotland father Edmund Pascal Hope this helps pat nz Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 9:23 AM Subject: [INDIA] FW: Captain Edmund PASCAL > Hello List > Liz said: I am searching for any information on Captain (later Major) > Edmund > Pascal or Pascall who served with the Madras Army from 1745 onwards. I > know > he was an Ensign in 1747 aged 25, and that he was an officer who was > wounded > in Draper's Sortie at Chingleput, Madras in December 1758, and that he > ended > up as Town Major of Madras. (Info from Google Books) He also seems to have > owned slaves. Unfortunately I only have access online to the Index of > Vestiges of Old Madras', so cannot read the actual text referring to him. > > The FIBIS Fibiwiki page "Madras (City)" > http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Madras_(City) > indicates the 3 Volumes of Vestiges of Old Madras are available on the > Digital Library of India website. > > Cheers > Maureen (Sydney) > > ===== India Mailing List ===== > > Families in British India Society: http://www.fibis.org > > > Archives for this list can be found at: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA > and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Elaine, I can add the following to what you have told us. This is the result of a few quick searches online, you will have to decide how much is relevant or needs further verification. 1. In the British Library search Ellen is recorded as born Delhi (illeg) 1840, bapt Meerut 1845. Father is William, Major 69th NI. 2. Fibis list a will for William Brown 1846. No further details. 3. FreeBMD lists ten Ellen Brown deaths for June 1853 (i.e. the quarter ending 30th June). In particular one at Stow-on-the Wold which is not so far from Bristol. Unfortunately the indexes for 1853 do not give any information beyond name and register page numbers. At a guess, the reason the name was crossed through was because the BMOS had no further responsibility for the child, she was effectively deleted from their records. I would get the will of William Brown. There is a chance it is the right one. I have a Bengal will in my family in which someone made provision for an illegimate daughter, if you are lucky you may find out a bit more as well. See the fibiwiki for details of access to wills. The only way to get more informations for the deaths is to order the death certificates and they come at a price, unfortunately. I speak from experience here, having wasted money in that direction in the past. HTH Simon.

This may be of help. My name is Warren Abbott and I was born in Jhansi, UP, India in 1932, may be a little more info may help find some thing in common. Warren Abbott Ontario, Canada Subject: [INDIA] ABBOTT, CURTIS, WRIGHT > Hello Listers, > > Eileen Cavel Curtis married Thomas Ernest Abbott on May 18, 1936. > > Eileen and Thomas divorced and then she married Cyril Arthur Wright on > September 22, 1945. > > I am wondering if anyone has knowledge of children from the first > marriage that would have stayed with Eileen. > > Any information would be gladly received. > > Shirley Barbur