Good monring listers Thanks to the help of the British Library a little more information has been found on my John THORPE Jnr. b 1829 in Madras. I knew he was a Clerk in the Police Dept in the Hyderabad Residency in 1867 when 3 of his children were baptised but had not been able to find any further info on him. On L/F/10/190 Hyderabad Uncovenanted civil servants 1866-1900, the entry for 1866 read: The Superintendent of Police Residency Bazaars Name: John Thorpe Position: Writer, Dawk Bearer Department ["Dawk" - properly transport by relays of men & horses & thence 'the mail' or letter-oost, as well as any arrangement for travelling or for transmitting articles by such relays, also to cause relay of bearers or horses to be posted on a road] L/F/10/189 Hyderabad civil establishments 1871 to 1877 and V/13 series from 1875 were also searched bu no further information appeared. Pay: 30 Rupees Age: years 37 [born in India] As a writer, where would John possibly have been educated, at the Cantonment school or possibly a college. John Jnr's father John THORPE had "land under cultivation" in the Hyderabad area so may have had money or perhaps was cultivating for the govt at the time [as in Beverley's message to the list today] so may have been able to afford to send his son John Jnr to a college. Would there be any other records that would give any further information like, personal info i.e.marriage, family or pension or death of John Thorpe please. Also what are "Police Residency Bazaars" please?. Thank you for any answers to my above queries. Kind regards Joan -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. We are a community of 7 million users fighting spam. SPAMfighter has removed 1096 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len The Professional version does not have this message

Testing whether my mails addressed to the India List are returned. Arvind Kolhatkar, Toronto, October 31, 2010.

For a long time I have been trying to find the marriage of Arthur MEPPEN- WALTER to Agnes WARBURTON. I know they were married in Mangalore on the 24th June 1872 and have found the reference Z/N/2/M4 at the IOL, but I have never managed to locate the microfilm. Can someone advise me where I am going wrong. Until I find these marriage details which I am hoping will reveal Agnes' parents I cannot go any further back with the Warburtons. Many thanks Marion

Hello List Beverley said: Below are the details of my 4xG Grandfather's allocation from the Botanical Garden - by this stage Wilfred Hine was an invalided warrant officer (Conductor). Perhaps Wilfred Hine was classed as a civil officer establishing a nursery to benefit those in his charge?? or distributing to Zemindars within that district?? If Wilfred Hines was an invalided Conductor, it means he was either in the Commissariat (Army Supply) or Ordnance (weaponry etc). Even if originally in Ordnance, he probably had connections in the Commissariat. Umballa was a cantonment, so there would have been quite a number of soldiers and army support people living there. The following is just speculation, but perhaps all the fruit trees were to provide food for the troops. Wilfred Hines may have been purchasing on his own behalf, ie he was setting up an orchard as he saw an opportunity to supplement his pension , selling to his contacts in the Commissariat. Alternatively he could have been purchasing all or some of the trees on behalf of the Commissariat, or even other individuals who lived at Umballa Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

With the indulgence of the List Administrator, I remind those who can make it to London on 13th November, of our announcement of FIBIS 'Autumn Open Meeting' FIBIS 'Autumn Open Meeting' is to be held at 1.00 p.m. for a start at 1.30 p.m. on Saturday, 13th November, 2010 at Hughes-Parry Hall, University of London, 19-26, Cartwright Gardens, London WC1H 9EF. A map of how to get there is available on the FIBIS web-site at www.fibis.org/meetings.htm (Click on address) After our Annual General Meeting, the two lectures to be held are: 1.. "The East India Company in London - Its Directors " by Richard Morel of British Library 2.. "Identifying the Founding Soldiers of the East India Company's Armies " by Peter Bailey, FIBIS Chairman ADDITIONALLY, on that morning - and at the same location - for any visitor with brick walls to jump in their ancestral research, a few experienced researchers will be available from 10.00 a.m. to 12.30 a.m. in a first-come-first-served "Surgery" to answer questions and to offer advice. In response to many requests, we shall focus for part of the time on obtaining full benefit from the FIBIS web-site. All interested are welcome to attend - and NO CHARGE will be made. We do, however, request that those wishing to attend would please advise Emma Sullivan, FIBIS Membership Secretary, on Membership@fibis.org as much in advance as possible, but in any case before Sunday, 7th November. Looking forward to seeing as many of you as can make it Good Hunting! Peter Bailey Chairman Families in British India Society www.fibis.org

Thank you to those who have pointed out my transcription error. Iris MANNAS was aged 46 on the passenger list for the 'Stratheden.' I have not found Iris' death in England, nor a remarriage. Noel

The following may be of interest. The passenger list for the 'Stratheden', which arrived at Tilbury, Essex, on 3rd September 1954 from Sydney, shows the following passengers: Andrew C. MANNAS, aged 55, railway driver. Iris MANNAS, aged 36, housewife. Trevor MANNAS, aged 23, foundry worker. Joyce MANNAS, aged 26, laboratory assistant. Joyce MANNAS, aged 6, schoolgirl. Clarence MANNAS, aged 26, railway worker. Iona MANNAS, aged 21, laboratory assistant. All bound for 1 Fairford Way, Harold Hill, Romford, Essex, country of last permanent residence India, intended country of residence England. Fairly obviously Andrew C. MANNAS and Iris had children Clarence, Trevor and Iona. Trevor married Joyce and they had a child Joyce. Turning now to English BMD records, I find that Andrew C. MANNAS died in 1961 and his death was registered in the Romford registration district, Essex, aged 62. Clarence Andrew MANNAS, born 26 Mar 1928, died in 2003 and his death was registered in the West Surrey registration district. Trevor Cecil MANNAS, born 30 Dec 1930 died in 1979 and his death was registered in the Havering registration district. Clarence Andrew MANNAS married Mary T. B. MORLEY in 1961. They had two children, Moira I. MANNAS and Paul Clarence MANNAS. Iona R. MANNAS married Oscar A. WOODS in 1956. They had five children. Joyce R. MANNAS married Victor G WOOD in 1968. They had three children. Andrew C. MANNAS' full name was Andrew Cecil MANNAS. He was born 25th April 1899 to Joseph and Grace MANNAS, and baptized on 8th June 1899 at Secunderabad, Madras, India. Joseph MANNAS married Grace Johanna DURANT on 8 Jun 1881 at Bangalore, Madras, India. Joseph's father was Alexander Cornelius MANNAS, and Grace's father was Peter DURANT. I would suggest that Clarence Andrew MANNAS is the person you are seeking. He was certainly a railway worker, and could well have started work on the railways at the age of 18 in 1946. All of this is consistent with the information you have given. I see absolutely no reason to search any further. The family is extant in England, and I would think that a little searching would enable you to make contact. Indeed, a simple Google finds Moira MANNAS as the Membership Secretary of the Guildford Branch of the British Computer Society. Noel

Hi List, I have found details for one of my HINE family in the publication(s) below, which can be found in Full View at Google books. REPORT UPON THE BOTANICAL GARDENS OF THE NORTH WESTERN PROVINCES. No. 134. >From W. JAMESON, Esquire, Superintendent Botanical Gardens, NWP To W. MUIR, Esquire, Secretary to Government, ... Note for all listers - it is worth checking these reports for your ancestors too! It appears there were various reasons why residents were allocated plants and seeds from this source but if any knowledgeable listers are able to shed any more light on this, I would be grateful. Below are the details of my 4xG Grandfather's allocation from the Botanical Garden - by this stage Wilfred Hine was an invalided warrant officer (Conductor). Perhaps Wilfred Hine was classed as a civil officer establishing a nursery to benefit those in his charge?? or distributing to Zemindars within that district?? Although many of the allocations are quite small, I wonder whether any of this was for personal use/cultivation?? Your thoughts and advice are most welcome. Bev Researching India Family Names: ELLISON, HINE, BERESFORD, BLYTH, ROBBINS, MADDEN, NAVIN, REA REPORT UPON THE BOTANICAL GARDENS OF THE NORTH WESTERN PROVINCES. Pg 266 1847 17th November Hine Esq, Umballa 362 Fruit Trees, 15 trees, shrubs and flowering plants, 1 parcel of seeds. Fruit and flowering plants and strawberries. Pg 279 1848 27th June Mr Hine, Umballa 2 parcels of seeds. Vegetable and flower seeds. Pg 313 1850 8th May Mr W Hine, Saharanapoor 2 parcels of seeds Vegetable and creeper seeds.

Hi Listers I have an Isabella Bain that married James Brander in Madras 1876 . I haven't been able to find when Isabella went to India can anyone advise where I might find passenger lists for India I have no other info on James other than his marriage to Isabella , also looking for children from the marriage. I know that Isabella became a school inspector-ess in 1888 in Madras. But after that haven't found anything other than Isabella was possibly in London late 1800's early 1900's but I believe that she went back to . Any help would be much appreciated.

Hello List, Has anyone knowledge of Mervyn Richard POWELL and Kathleen Mary FENNELL, (father: Harry FENNELL), married 1932 in Ootacamund, Madras, India? We believe they moved to South Africa and later England, or visa versa. Mervyn was born in Perambuk, Madras, India, 06 June 1908, his father was Samuel Powell and mother Amelia Herberta. Any information would be appreciated. Cheers, Len Buchanan

Michael wrote : Please see the email below from Kerry King. I am unable to help her. Can any of you point her in the right direction? Regards, Michael Hi Michael/Kerry Consider checking the variant as MANNAS   Doing a quick search on the LDS Pilot site there is more to find I came accross the following born to a Robert  & Jane and a Rodney & Jane Phyllis Elaine - 1906 Maud Sybil - 1895 (Rodney & Jane) Stanley Thomas - 1877 Mildred - 1899 & Gerald Frank - 1902 There may be more as I did not check through all 10pages that came up as MANNAS   Cheryl Good Day I came across your Roots website but don’t know if you are still at this email address,  but taking a chance writing to ask for your help please.  I’ve have been searching for many, many, many  years for a relative of mine “Clarence Mannas”  wanting to know as to When and Where he was Born.  Clarence Mannas worked for the Southern Railway in Hubli, India as a Crane Drive around the 1940’s and maybe to the middle of the 50’s.  I’ve tried everywhere trying to find his date and place of birth even writing many times to the  Southern Railway but no response.  The Railway has to have  his “Record of Employment” giving his date and place of birth and  plus maybe the names of his next of kin.  Many have helped but we have all come empty.    I do appreciate your help and I thank you very much. Kerry King                         ===== India Mailing List ===== Families in British India Society:  http://www.fibis.org Archives for this list can be found at: http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=INDIA and at: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/INDIA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to INDIA-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello List Kerry King asked: I've have been searching for many, many, many years for a relative of mine "Clarence Mannas" wanting to know as to When and Where he was Born. Clarence Mannas worked for the Southern Railway in Hubli, India as a Crane Drive around the 1940's and maybe to the middle of the 50's. I've tried everywhere trying to find his date and place of birth even writing many times to the Southern Railway but no response The following record was on the LDS beta site which may be the person Kerry is seeking. Name Gerald Frank Clarence Mannas Gender Male Baptism/Christening Date 15 Jun 1902 Baptism/Christening Place Bellary, Madras, India Birth Date 10 May 1902 Father's Name Robert Mannas Mother's Name Jane Indexing Project (Batch) Number C00071-6 System Origin India-EASy Source Film Number 527464 For information about the LDS microfilms, refer the FIBIS Fibiwiki Beginners' Guide http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Beginners%27_Guide Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

Hello Kerry Re your 'Clarence Mannus'. Have found in Family Search Beta site; Gerald Frank Clarence Mannus, born 10 May 1902 Madras, India Baptised 15 Jun 1902, Bellary Madras, India Parents; Robert and Jane. This may be your 'Clarence'. Other children of Robert and Jane Mannus; Stanley Robert Les Mannus born 17 Aug 1897, Madras, baptised 8 Sep 1897, Bellary, Madras Mildred Laura Mannus born 25 Nov 1899, Madras, baptised 14 Dec 1899, Bellary, Madras Phyllis Elaine Mannus born 28 May 1906, Madras, baptised 13 Jun 1906, Secunderabad, Madras Could not find a marriage for Robert and Jane Mannus or Gerald Frank Clarence Mannus on the beta site. You could try; Families in British India Society http://search.fibis.org/frontis/bin/aps_person_search.php IOR http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/Home.aspx Regards Penni

Hello, fellow listers. Please see the email below from Kerry King. I am unable to help her. Can any of you point her in the right direction? Regards, Michael Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 04:33:28 -0700 From: yknt91@yahoo.ca Subject: Please help To: mrichfam@hotmail.co.uk Good Day I came across your Roots website but don’t know if you are still at this email address, but taking a chance writing to ask for your help please. I’ve have been searching for many, many, many years for a relative of mine “Clarence Mannas” wanting to know as to When and Where he was Born. Clarence Mannas worked for the Southern Railway in Hubli, India as a Crane Drive around the 1940’s and maybe to the middle of the 50’s. I’ve tried everywhere trying to find his date and place of birth even writing many times to the Southern Railway but no response. The Railway has to have his “Record of Employment” giving his date and place of birth and plus maybe the names of his next of kin. Many have helped but we have all come empty. I do appreciate your help and I thank you very much. Kerry King

Hello List David said: Could someone also point me in the direction of finding whether the Madras Artillery saw active service between 1814 and 1860? I am interested as to whether the unit was involved in the Mutiny because another ancestor makes reference to a Madras Exhibition in 1857, the same year as the uprising. The FIBIS Fibiwiki page "Madras Artillery" http://wiki.fibis.org/index.php?title=Madras_Artillery gives details of Volume 2 of History of the Services of the Madras Artillery, covering the period 1810-1852, available at the British Library. Unfortunately only Volume 1, for the period to 1810, is available online. Also details are given of a book The History of the Royal and Indian Artillery in the Mutiny of 1857 available at the British Library, or which may be purchased. Cheers Maureen (Sydney)

I wonder if any of the Listers might be able to halp me with the following questions about the Madras Artillery. Two of my ancestors served with that unit. The first was Thomas Skinner who enlisted in 1814. He was a cabinet-maker and a freeman of Canterbury. While economic conditions with the war with France would not have been good, would the pay rate of a gunner have been reasonable? In 1821 my ancestor appears in the list of pensioners. He was only 31, which to me seems rather young. Again could someone enlighten me as to what a pensioner might recieve? Could someone also point me in the direction of finding whether the Madras Artillery saw active service between 1814 and 1860? I am interested as to whether the unit was involved in the Mutiny because another ancestor makes reference to a Madras Exhibition in 1857, the same year as the uprising. Thank you, David Cornelius

David wrote: >I wonder if any of the Listers might be able to halp me with the > following questions about the Madras Artillery. Two of my ancestors > served with that unit. > The first was Thomas Skinner who enlisted in 1814. He was a > cabinet-maker and a freeman of Canterbury. While economic conditions > with the war with France would not have been good, would the pay rate of > a gunner have been reasonable? In 1821 my ancestor appears in the list > of pensioners. He was only 31, which to me seems rather young. Again > could someone enlighten me as to what a pensioner might recieve? > Could someone also point me in the direction of finding whether the > Madras Artillery saw active service between 1814 and 1860? I am > interested as to whether the unit was involved in the Mutiny because > another ancestor makes reference to a Madras Exhibition in 1857, the > same year as the uprising. To determine a career summary of a soldier in the Madras Artillery, it is important to determine in which Company of which Battalion he served. Each company served in widely differing locations, generally moving between them every three or four years. It may be relatively easy to determine Thomas Skinner's Battalion but quite difficult to learn in which company of it he served. A soldier's term of enlistment should normally feature in his unit's Muster List. In the case of Thomas Skinner, it could easily have been seven years after which he could have been entitled to a modest pension and still feature in the Muster Lists. Major actions/campaigns in which the Madras Artillery served were the First (1824-1826) & Second (1852-1853) Burma Campaigns, China (1838 & 1840-1842), Malacca (1832), Coorg (1834). They were involved in a number of smaller actions too, but no unit, as far as I am aware, played any significant part in the Great Mutiny. There are various articles in the FIBIS Journal which describe the pay, etc. of soldiers of the EIC Armies. They are available in the Members Area of the FIBIS Website. Hope this helps. Good Hunting! Peter Bailey Chairman Families in British India Society www.fibis.org

*Keith I would like to know how to go about arranging to send my family's certificates from churches in Calcutta to the IOR for the same reason. Could you please send me details. * \-- RESEARCH: Baker, Bennett, Coward, Cramer, Curtis, Foote, Gabriel, King, Maddox, Marshall, Musselwhite, Pereira, Scriven(s), Williams

In general the ecclesiastical returns from India ceased after 1947, although a few strays did still find their way to London. In my own case even though I was born after 1947, I arranged for the baptism certificates for myself, my sister and my brother to be sent direct from the church in Calcutta to the India Office Library (as it was then called) many many years ago, in order that our family records would be here for future generations to research. Keith Cornelius England.

In general the ecclesiastical returns from India ceased after 1947, although a few strays did still find their way to London. In my own case even though I was born after 1947, I arranged for the baptism certificates for myself, my sister and my brother to be sent direct from the church in Calcutta to the India Office Library (as it was then called) many many years ago, in order that our family records would be here for future generations to research. Keith Cornelius England.