The LDS has done a tremendous job, putting the 1880 census online, but they did make a few errors. The listing for the Sellinger family in Joliet on Ancestry.com's online images shows a blank space in the "relationship" column for baby Herman, where the LDS has inserted "other." ----- Original Message ----- From: <JulieBskt@aol.com> To: <ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 2:54 PM Subject: [ILWILL] 1880 Sellinger > I checked the 1880 LDS transcription of the 1880 census and found the > following: > > Herman Sellinger Butcher age 25 Prus Prus Prus > Eva wife 28 Prus Prus Prus > Herman other 4 months Ill Prus Prus > > Normally, I would expect little Herman to be the son of Herman Sr and wife, > Eva. However, his relationship to the head of household is listed as > ~other~. Since he is evidently named after the head of household, he surely > would either be his son...OR...an orphaned nephew named after Herman Sr. > But...he could just as well have been an orphaned baby they took in and > renamed...and weren't officially yet calling him their son. If little Herman > was a Nephew, or step son, the designation should have said that instead of > ~other~, which was given to unrelated outsiders in the household. > Still...mistakes happened in all census data...so he could still have been > their blood son, and the census taker just got it wrong. > > This was the only entry in Will Co for Sellingers...though there were several > in Cook Co, nearby....and there were a good amount scattered around the > state...some down in St. Clair Co , across from St. Louise...and Montgomery > Co as well as a few other locations. > > > Hope this helps. > > Julie Bissell Tupker > > ______________________________

Thanks Kathy, I had come up with some of these, but the forgot to check some of the spellings you mentioned. Seems like my Mother's family just doesn't want to be found. My great uncle, Fritz Wenberg dropped off the face of the earth after a family fight. My grandfather even hired a private dectective in the 30s or 40s to track him down with virtually nothing concrete to show for it. You have given me some good suggestions. Thanks so much. Hope you have been having a joyous holiday season. Tricia M. ----- Original Message ----- From: zavada To: ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 12:37 PM Subject: Re: [ILWILL] WENBERG,BARZ,BECKER,SELINGER Hi There, You are correct-There is NO census for Will County in 1890. The indexes I referred to where those on paid ancestry.com for 1920 and 1930 census. I do have some info for you and some suggestions for locating more info on your surnames. 1930 census Joliet BARZ Ernest F.,67 b. Germ,age at 1st marr.24,naturalized 1902 wife Bertha E,63,b. Germ,naturalized 1902(would be under her husband's name-she would NOT be mentioned-entire family would have been naturalized under his name). 1902 naturalizations MAY have exact info on Germ. locations-would be at Clerk of Circuit Court,Will County Courthouse,Joliet BECKER-surname too common for me to locate specific info at this time. SELINGER 1930 census spelled two ways with a double LL and with single L Joliet SELINGER George,75,age at 1 st marr.24,naturalized 1872,b.GERMANY,parents b. same wife Eva,78,naturalized 1860,b. Germ These naturalizations probably would NOT help with foreign location. on sage page with above George SELLINGER,George 41,b.IL,etc(Son?) WENBERG 1930 Louis,74,b.Sweden,age at 1st marr. 28,naturalized 1882 Charlotte,67,wife,age at 1st marr. 20,naturalized 1882(under husband?) 1884-1892 Joliet Directories did you catch misspellings of the surnames? WENBERG-aka WEMBERG because these folks owned businesses-should check for probate records on the men and the wives. Because they are of German extraction-probates MAY include extensive,very good "proof of heirship". Probates at clerk of the circuit court,will county court house,joliet. Paper indexes by alpha surname,then alpha given name. ON microfilm. Copies from ONE probate-1st page $2.00(one side),50 cents per one side thereafter. IF they will,have them copy ONLY proof of heirship and letters of administration. Keeps cost down. Be sure to check for probate of Betha widow of Andrew shown in Jol. Directories also. entry Louis 1892 president Joliet Electric Clock Co. (If I remember right-may have been a predessor of Westclox??) SELINGER-aka selmger,herman-1884,sellinger & salinger,julius 1885-1888,schlinger,august 1892 be sure to check for a probate of Wilhelmina(Minnie) widow of August listed 1885-1887 BARZ-aka barc,august-1884,berki,ernest1884,Caroline/Catherine widow of Ernst1885-1887,bearss,charles 1884,also barg. look for probate of Caroline/Catherine widow. 1900 census should also give yr. of naturalization/immighration besides month and yr. of birth for everyone in household. NO KNOWN INDEX(at least I do not know of one) 1880 census has a soundex to it. SELINGER and maiden name of his wife should be in this. Soundex is a microfilm of surnames in 1880 census-by state. Should be able to locate all your SELINGER's by location in state of illinois then go to regular 1880 census and find them. It's Christmas Eve,have to go.. If I find anything else,later,will let you know. Good Hunting,Happy Holidays!! Kathy ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm

Hi Listers, I have a picture given to me by my grandmother that shows five children of a "Thelma O'CONNELL". There's a notation on the back of the picture of 625 Fenton Avenue, Lockport, IL, 60441, along with the kids' names (Gary, Wayne, Linda, Kevin, and Robert). On the front of the picture is written "1965". The ages of the children range from a few-months-old baby to the girl who is about 10. Judging from the chins on these children, they could be cousins of my grandparents, or great-grands. Does anyone by chance remember this family, and how they might connect to the surnames of KEMPSKI, BANACH, or BOGACZ? If anyone would like a scan of the picture, feel free to e-mail me privately. Thank you, and Happy Holidays! Joey Stark a_nonny_mouse@prodigy.net

I checked the 1880 LDS transcription of the 1880 census and found the following: Herman Sellinger Butcher age 25 Prus Prus Prus Eva wife 28 Prus Prus Prus Herman other 4 months Ill Prus Prus Normally, I would expect little Herman to be the son of Herman Sr and wife, Eva. However, his relationship to the head of household is listed as ~other~. Since he is evidently named after the head of household, he surely would either be his son...OR...an orphaned nephew named after Herman Sr. But...he could just as well have been an orphaned baby they took in and renamed...and weren't officially yet calling him their son. If little Herman was a Nephew, or step son, the designation should have said that instead of ~other~, which was given to unrelated outsiders in the household. Still...mistakes happened in all census data...so he could still have been their blood son, and the census taker just got it wrong. This was the only entry in Will Co for Sellingers...though there were several in Cook Co, nearby....and there were a good amount scattered around the state...some down in St. Clair Co , across from St. Louise...and Montgomery Co as well as a few other locations. Hope this helps. Julie Bissell Tupker

Hi There, You are correct-There is NO census for Will County in 1890. The indexes I referred to where those on paid ancestry.com for 1920 and 1930 census. I do have some info for you and some suggestions for locating more info on your surnames. 1930 census Joliet BARZ Ernest F.,67 b. Germ,age at 1st marr.24,naturalized 1902 wife Bertha E,63,b. Germ,naturalized 1902(would be under her husband's name-she would NOT be mentioned-entire family would have been naturalized under his name). 1902 naturalizations MAY have exact info on Germ. locations-would be at Clerk of Circuit Court,Will County Courthouse,Joliet BECKER-surname too common for me to locate specific info at this time. SELINGER 1930 census spelled two ways with a double LL and with single L Joliet SELINGER George,75,age at 1 st marr.24,naturalized 1872,b.GERMANY,parents b. same wife Eva,78,naturalized 1860,b. Germ These naturalizations probably would NOT help with foreign location. on sage page with above George SELLINGER,George 41,b.IL,etc(Son?) WENBERG 1930 Louis,74,b.Sweden,age at 1st marr. 28,naturalized 1882 Charlotte,67,wife,age at 1st marr. 20,naturalized 1882(under husband?) 1884-1892 Joliet Directories did you catch misspellings of the surnames? WENBERG-aka WEMBERG because these folks owned businesses-should check for probate records on the men and the wives. Because they are of German extraction-probates MAY include extensive,very good "proof of heirship". Probates at clerk of the circuit court,will county court house,joliet. Paper indexes by alpha surname,then alpha given name. ON microfilm. Copies from ONE probate-1st page $2.00(one side),50 cents per one side thereafter. IF they will,have them copy ONLY proof of heirship and letters of administration. Keeps cost down. Be sure to check for probate of Betha widow of Andrew shown in Jol. Directories also. entry Louis 1892 president Joliet Electric Clock Co. (If I remember right-may have been a predessor of Westclox??) SELINGER-aka selmger,herman-1884,sellinger & salinger,julius 1885-1888,schlinger,august 1892 be sure to check for a probate of Wilhelmina(Minnie) widow of August listed 1885-1887 BARZ-aka barc,august-1884,berki,ernest1884,Caroline/Catherine widow of Ernst1885-1887,bearss,charles 1884,also barg. look for probate of Caroline/Catherine widow. 1900 census should also give yr. of naturalization/immighration besides month and yr. of birth for everyone in household. NO KNOWN INDEX(at least I do not know of one) 1880 census has a soundex to it. SELINGER and maiden name of his wife should be in this. Soundex is a microfilm of surnames in 1880 census-by state. Should be able to locate all your SELINGER's by location in state of illinois then go to regular 1880 census and find them. It's Christmas Eve,have to go.. If I find anything else,later,will let you know. Good Hunting,Happy Holidays!! Kathy

Friends, Will research for IL prison records change now that our PAL (Politically a Lameduck) Gov. George Ryan [Federal Prisoner Id # not yet assigned], closing the Joliet Prison? Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Walter (& Joan) McElligott Historical Society Greater Peotone, IL Chairman Grantwriting Committee P. O. Box 452, Beecher, IL 60401-0452 ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com

To Kathy, Tricia and others that helped me find some information on my grgrandfather and family. Thank you so much. Maxine

Kathy, I am curious about the census indexes you mentioned below. I wasn't aware there were any other records than the city directories for that time. Are these available online? I have had a difficult time confirming info for my maternal lines...... Wenberg (Swedish), Barz/Bartz and Becker (Germans from Poland), and especially Selinger from (?). All are in Joliet from about 1880 and seem to be in the directories.. ----- Original Message ----- From: zavada@uti.com To: ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [ILWILL] Prison Guards and Census For Maxine, The Joliet City Directories mentioned by another researcher are on ancestry on the web. Paid service part. The prison and it's guards are on the regular census,in the first section of the microfilm which has Joliet twp on it. Always enumerated just below Lockport. If you give me the names, I will search ancestry Joliet Directories and what census indexes are available for you. Kathy >Hi, > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would I go to access it? Thanks for any help. >Maxine > > >==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== >Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ >Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm > ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm

The only source for an 1890 IL census that I know of is the Joliet City Directories. Your ancestors may be listed in these. The directories cover just the city of Joliet for a few years+/- 1890. I believe you can find them through genforum, rootweb and possibly, ancestry.com. Tricia M. ----- Original Message ----- From: max To: ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:45 PM Subject: [ILWILL] Prison Guards and Census Hi, My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would I go to access it? Thanks for any help. Maxine ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm

Hi Maxine, I checked the Joliet Dir. 1882-1892 for CLAPPER(and all variant spellings including KLAPPER,etc.) Only one listed. 1892 CLAPPER,Nelson works for Joliet Street car Railway boards 609 S. Chicago street. Also at 609 S. Chucago st in 1892 George A. CORBUS printer for Joliet Republican printing Co. Burdett HAMMOND fireman Chicago & Alton railroad and a business listing W.F.KEITH & Sons,druggists. I checked the illinois state marriage index and found CLAPPER,Bertha married Marion County 9 aug 1893 Marshall E. THOMAS also found Samuel M. CLAPPER married Frances S. RIGGS 5 mar 1856 Champaign county Frances R. CLAPPER age 83 b. Ind head of household Champaign,Mahomet,IL 1920 census son Frank 47 b. IL Roy S. son 32 b. IL checked 1920 census for Flora COLBERT and found Champaign Co,IL,Champaign twp,Champaign city ED5 page 7A 201 S. Wright St. THOMAS,M.E. rents 63 b. Ind,parents b. NY no occupation(NOTE IL death index shows Marshall Ellis THOMAS died 28 Dec 1925 Champaign Co.) BERTHA,48 wife b. PA parents b. PA Fred A. son 23 b. IL,Father b. Ind Mother b. PA-occup-car repairer-single Louis I,son age illegible,single,b.IL same info on parents. occup-pressman(printer) COLBERT,Flora,36,widow,b. WI,parents b. PA no occup. listed-SISTER IN LAW(relationship) daug. Lilah,8 b. PA son, Elmer,7 or 9,b. PA daug. Harriet,5 b.PA son,Addison,2 2/12 b. PA 1930 census PA,Blair Co.,Williamsburg twp ED82 p.19B 453 Park Alley COLBERT Flora R.,47,rents,value $15.00,b.WI,parents b. PA occup-char woman papermill office-widow Elmer,son,17,b.PA occup spinner in silk mill Harriet,daug.,15,b.PA,occup-delivery girl electric light co Addison,12,son,b.PA,occup delivery boy electric light co. Social security death index Flora COLBERT b. 11 apr 1883 died dec 1979 last res. 16648 Hollidaysburg,Blair,PA no last benefit issued District of Columbia I assume you are in contact with: Delores Colbert,ganddaughter of Elmer Vance Colbert? she has that Herbert Vance COLBERT married Flora CLAPPER 17 Nov 1910 in Williamsburg,(Blair)PA. and Jesse F. Davis-your Flora b. 1883 in WI doesn't seem to fit very well with other siblings born about 20 years before in PA. Sorry can't find anything else on Joliet. Good Hunting, Kathy

Kathy, Thanks so much for your help. My grandfather's name was Samuel Clapper. His wife was Mary Delilah. There were 8 children. I don't know all of the names, but there was a Bertha, Edna and Flora (my grandmother) Maxine ----- Original Message ----- From: <zavada@uti.com> To: <ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 5:20 AM Subject: Re: [ILWILL] Prison Guards and Census > For Maxine, > The Joliet City Directories mentioned by another researcher are on > ancestry on the web. Paid service part. > The prison and it's guards are on the regular census,in the first > section of the microfilm which has Joliet twp on it. Always enumerated > just below Lockport. > If you give me the names, I will search ancestry Joliet Directories > and what census indexes are available for you. > Kathy > > >Hi, > > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the > late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the census. Does > any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. was separate > from the census of the other population? If so, where would I go to > access it? Thanks for any help. > >Maxine > > > > > >==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== > >Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ > >Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm > > > > > ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== > Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ > Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm >

For Maxine, The Joliet City Directories mentioned by another researcher are on ancestry on the web. Paid service part. The prison and it's guards are on the regular census,in the first section of the microfilm which has Joliet twp on it. Always enumerated just below Lockport. If you give me the names, I will search ancestry Joliet Directories and what census indexes are available for you. Kathy >Hi, > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would I go to access it? Thanks for any help. >Maxine > > >==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== >Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ >Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm >

Tricia, Thanks for the tip. I had not thought of the city directories. Thanks, Maxine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rbbtfarm" <rbbtfarm@charter.net> To: <ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 11:54 PM Subject: Re: [ILWILL] Prison Guards and Census > Will Co. IL Prison connections....... > > Hi, > > Think my Grt-grandfather's quarry provided the stones for the prison or so I have been told. Don't know if it will be helpful, but have you checked the Joliet City Directories? They are online for the years, about 1882-1894, something like that. Think I found them either through rootsweb or the genweb project as an alternative for the 1890 census. Not every one is listed, nor is the info as helpful as I assume the census might have been. Still, if you are lucky, they may help. Good luck, Tricia M. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Lorraine Moore > To: ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com > Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:46 PM > Subject: Re: [ILWILL] Prison Guards and Census > > > I would think he would be listed at his "living" address as opposed to > being listed with the prisoners. > Lorraine > > > At 06:45 PM 12/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >Hi, > > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the > > late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the > > census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. > > was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would > > I go to access it? Thanks for any help. > >Maxine > > > ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== > Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ > Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm > > > > ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== > Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ > Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm > >

Will Co. IL Prison connections....... Hi, Think my Grt-grandfather's quarry provided the stones for the prison or so I have been told. Don't know if it will be helpful, but have you checked the Joliet City Directories? They are online for the years, about 1882-1894, something like that. Think I found them either through rootsweb or the genweb project as an alternative for the 1890 census. Not every one is listed, nor is the info as helpful as I assume the census might have been. Still, if you are lucky, they may help. Good luck, Tricia M. ----- Original Message ----- From: Lorraine Moore To: ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [ILWILL] Prison Guards and Census I would think he would be listed at his "living" address as opposed to being listed with the prisoners. Lorraine At 06:45 PM 12/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the > late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the > census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. > was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would > I go to access it? Thanks for any help. >Maxine ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm

I would think he would be listed at his "living" address as opposed to being listed with the prisoners. Lorraine At 06:45 PM 12/21/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hi, > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the > late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the > census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. > was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would > I go to access it? Thanks for any help. >Maxine

Hi, My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the census. Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. was separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would I go to access it? Thanks for any help. Maxine

Maxine I'd be interested in that too. My ggrandfather was a 'regular' there about that time, but he wasn't a guard :) Joan On Saturday, December 21, 2002, at 03:45 PM, max wrote: > Hi, > My grgrandfather was a prison guard at the prison in Joliet in the > late 1890's. I can' find him or his family any where in the census. > Does any one know if the census with the guards,prisoners,etc. was > separate from the census of the other population? If so, where would > I go to access it? Thanks for any help. > Maxine >

Do you mean Robert Sterling? I don't have his address - he did the pictoral history books on Will County and Joliet. Michele Houchens Three Rivers Library Local History Collection ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter L. McElligott" <wmcauth05@juno.com> To: <ILWILL-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2002 10:11 AM Subject: [ILWILL] author > Will Co. Listers, > > Does SKS have the name & email ad for an historian/author at Joliet Jr. > College. I had, but lost when I changed my ad. > > Merry Christmas & Happy New Year > Walter (& Joan) McElligott > Historical Society Greater Peotone, IL > Chairman Grantwriting Committee > P. O. Box 452, Beecher, IL 60401-0452 > > ________________________________________________________________ > Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today > Only $9.95 per month! > Visit www.juno.com > > > ==== ILWILL Mailing List ==== > Will Co, IL website address is: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/ > Email listowner @ http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwill/my-email.htm >

You can contact Robert Sterling through the Junior College. I think he's in the business department.

Will Co. Listers, Does SKS have the name & email ad for an historian/author at Joliet Jr. College. I had, but lost when I changed my ad. Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Walter (& Joan) McElligott Historical Society Greater Peotone, IL Chairman Grantwriting Committee P. O. Box 452, Beecher, IL 60401-0452 ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com