This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5g.2ADI/44.1.1.1.1.2.1.2.2.1.2 Message Board Post: I'm not sure I'm responing to the right message. I have a Cecelia Ryterski in my family tree. Do you have other information on that family. The Ryterski's I'm related to lived in Nashville, Washington County, Ill. As far as I know, the Ryterski's I'm related to immmigrated in late 1890's. We don't know who, but we know someone on this side of the family came over to live with family already here. So, it's posible the different spellings could be connected. Anyway, if you have found info on the Ryterski's, could you let me know. Thank you, Denise

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Nowak Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5g.2ADI/121.2 Message Board Post: Just happened across your query today. I am not researching this family but have picked up some info on them and wondered if you had. First I found Tekla Meierstadt and Josepha Wozniak as Piotr's wife. According to Piotr's obit in the Nashville Journal 23 March 1922 Peter Nowak was born in Poland 29 June 1835. Married 1st wife in Poland and had two children, Stanislaus (Steve) and Agnes At age 40 he immigrated to Indiana where he married 2nd wife and had 8 ch. Joe, Mary, John, Dora, Maggie, Frank, Josie and George, all married. Agnes married Wladyslaw Novak/Nowak at Radom 18 Nov. 1890). Their daughter Lottie married Joseph Mozelewski, who is in my family tree. They had several other children but I haven't sorted out which children are from Walter's first marriage to Mary Szopinski. John m. Eva Gezella and had ch. Andrew, Edward, Ann and Frances Barber. Many Washington County people did come from La Porte County, Indiana and South Bend, St. Joseph County, IND. St. Joseph County has a very good GenWeb page and their church records are available through the LDS. Josie m. Edward Bonk Dec 1919. Had daughter, Florentine. George married Agnes Dublo, son Michael.

Hi I just got some info back from the IL state archives on Joseph Miller 1840-1921 son of Alexander Miller & Mary (Polly) Miller (?) who is married to Emily A. Clark 1852-1929 daughter of Charles M. Clark 1816-1896 & Sarah Smith 1820-1912 Emily's brother...Jesse Bernard Clark 1859-1947 married Clara Bell Cameron 1866-1954 daughter of Samuel Jasper Cameron 1838-1912 & Mary Jane McKinze 1839-1914 Is anyone out there researching this Miller line? I would be interested in their children. Also interested in these other lines. Ida Ebert Troy, MO

I just received the information from Washington County Clerk's office concerning research. I thought I would share it with the board. Genealogical research will be done for a fee of $10.00 per name for a 5 yr search and $1.00 for ea additional year. The $10.00 search fee is not refundable if nothing is found. This office will do NO land record searches. We suggest that you contact an abstractor for that type of work. ALL FEES ARE DUE IN ADVANCE We have no naturalization or school records in this office. Census records are numbers ONLY, we have no names. Records we have are as follows: MARRIAGES starting with 1832 BIRTHS starting with 1877 DEATHS starting with 1877 Plain copies are $1.00 per page, certified copies are $5.00 per copy and additional copies of the same certified are $2.00 ea. Genealogical Research is not one of the main priorities of this office. Most records are kept by hand and we do not have the time or staff to always research requests as they come in. The above information came from the office of Thomas Ganz, County Clerk & Recorder. I called the office this morning to ask if I needed to send $10.00 if I already knew the Volume of the book and the page number for a marriage license. I was told that if I already had that information that I wouldn't have to pay the $10.00 search fee. But, I should send $2.00 because most of the ledger entries run across two pages, since the books are so large. Susan

I received this from one of the genealogy mailing lists that I am subscribed to and thought that you might find it interesting and/or enlightening. Yes, it is long but worth reading. -------- SPELLING DOESN'T COUNT by Donna Przecha Frequently when you ask beginning researchers what surnames they are working on they will say, "Browne - with an e" or "Vaughan - that's an" or "Prichard - without the t." While it may seem that they are being extra careful to get the right family, they may be making a big mistake. When it comes to old documents, spelling doesn't count, especially with names. Instead of narrowing the field of research with exact spelling, it is important to enlarge it as much as possible with every possible spelling. One researcher said she could add five generations onto another researcher's line, but the second person wouldn't accept the information because the name was spelled Browne and her family only used Brown. Prior to Samuel Johnson publishing the first Dictionary of the English Language in 1755, there were no spelling rules. Even today there really are no rules for spelling names. You can spell your name any way you want. With modern records, once you have a social security card (now issued at birth), a birth certificate and a driver's license or passport, it is usually too much trouble to vary the spelling. Records are computerized, can easily be crosschecked and if everything doesn't match exactly, you don't exist! While a person is pretty much committed to the parents' way of spelling the surname, it is easy to see there are even fewer rules nowadays for spelling first names. Sherry may be Sherree, Sheri or even Shayree. Laurie could be Lori, Laurey, Lauree, Laury, Lory, Lorie, Loree, etc. Unusual given names might be spelled phonetically in documents. Given names, then as now, often had nicknames. While Liz or Beth for Elizabeth is easy to understand, in many cases, the nickname used in the 17th century does not stand for the same name today. Polly was a common nickname for Mary. Marguerite might be called Daisy since the former is the French word for the flower. For more information, see Sue Roe's list of nicknames. Also consider nicknames during the research process. As previously mentioned, nowadays people are usually consistent in spelling their surnames. Why weren't our ancestors consistent? There are two big reasons: 1) The ancestor may not have been literate and 2) the record was created by another person. If the ancestor was unable to read and write, he may not have known how to spell his own name at all. Even if he had memorized the spelling, a literate person recording the information may not have asked. Records we use for research are mostly church records, civil records, wills and census records. These were usually written by a non-family member - a clergyman, census enumerator, town or county clerk. The recorders may have thought they knew best how to spell a name and did not even bother to ask. The illiterate farmer would not presume to correct an educated minister. For more information on common variations and why they occurred, see Genealogy.com's Name and Word Spellings. You should write down every possible spelling variation and check each one. This can be time consuming in an alphabetical list (much easier if it is Soundex) but it is essential. The name Truesdell can begin Trus or Trues and end with dale, del, dell or dle - quite a few possibilities. However, one essential marriage record was recorded as Trasdle - and missed because the researcher (yours truly) did not cast a wide enough net! The family, of English origin, lived for a while in Quebec where there are many French families named Truedell. Strangely enough, these two names never seemed to be used interchangeably. However, it is necessary to scan the Truedells in an index looking for any with English given names. You may find in an area two surnames that are very similar but it almost seems that everyone knew they were different and made a special effort to keep them straight in records. Another reason for spelling variations could be an accent when saying the name. It is very difficult to know what type of accent a person had 300 years ago. One name that has two different spellings is Royce and Rice. To American ears this seems very different, but anyone who has watched an English TV program is probably aware that people with heavy regional accents may say "royte" for "right." On the other hand, if you have watched Archie Bunker on TV he routinely says "chice" (rhyming with rice) for "choice." So either spelling, Royce or Rice, might be pronounced either way, depending on the accent. If this can happen with a one syllable English name, think of the possibilities with foreign names. When researchers find letters or wills that they believe were written by their ancestors, they are sometimes dismayed by the spelling and grammar they find - "was borned" in the family Bible is not unusual. Since there were no spelling rules prior to 1755 in England or, 1828 in the U.S. when Noah Webster published the first American dictionary, you should not worry about spelling. Prior to 1755 everyone spelled as they deemed fit. Since English words come from Latin, Greek, Anglo-Saxon, German, Danish, French and a host of other languages, there are many different ways of forming the same sound, depending on which language rules you are following. One scholar might have felt it appeared more learned to use Latin or French roots whereas a more practical person might feel a word should be spelled as it sounded - bot, not bought. (This argument continues to this day with many linguists proposing radical changes in spelling so that words are spelled as they sound. This would make spelling easier for future generations but would create years of confusion for those who learned the old rules.) Even in the 19th century it is obvious from looking at letters and wills that standard spelling still was not widely accepted. Since no spelling rules existed prior to 1755 in England and 1828 in the U.S., expect to find a broad range of spelling and grammar styles. Census, parish and vital records usually contain fairly standard information so spelling of words is not too much of a problem. Some of these records may contain occupations that may be spelled in a variety of ways - joyner or joiner (carpenter). The bigger problem usually is an obsolete occupation or name. There are several Web pages that will help you decipher cordwainer (shoemaker) or husbandman (tenant farmer). Beginners often make two common mistakes when reading handwritten documents. They create spelling errors where none exist because they do not know that some letters used to be written differently. The word we usually read as "ye" as in Ye Olde Shoppe is not a strange, outdated word at all. The letter that appears to be a y is actually a character known as a thorn that stood for the letters "th." "Ye" is actually a very modern "the" using an outdated symbol. In both typeset and handwritten documents, it appeared that words with two esses were spelled fs. (For more information on reading old handwriting see Sabina J. Murray's Deciphering Old Handwriting.) The letter that appears to be an f is actually the accepted way of writing the first s. It was never intended to represent an f. The silent e on the end of almost any word was common. Doubling letters was also popular - "shoppe" being a good example of both. Perhaps the writers felt these extra letters gave the word more substance and somehow made it more important! Familiarize yourself with characters that are no longer used in everyday language. Reading wills can be a genealogist's biggest challenge. They will probably be handwritten so you will have to try to decipher the script. Spelling will be inconsistent with words being spelled differently within the same document. The terms will often be archaic so not only will you not know the correct spelling, you might not know what it is even when spelled correctly. One very helpful publication is A Glossary of Household, Farming and Trade Terms from Probate Inventories by Rosemary Milward (Derbyshire Record Society, Occasional Paper No. 1). While this applies primarily to terms in English wills, many of those terms will be found in American wills. It contains many variations for some of the words. For example, mattress could be mateshess, materes, materessy, matrice, matrysey or ploughs might appear as plows, plogthes, ploes, plawes, plaghes, plowgthes, plose, ployths or plosse. You need to be careful in sounding out words because it would be easy to confuse ploughs in one of the above variations with pillows which could be peylowes, pyllas, pillues or pelowys. Unfortunately, in wills items are often listed with no description and no context to give a hint where or how it was used. While these terms are modern words when spelled one way, you will run across terms that have no modern equivalent. You might wonder what a joynt table or cabinet might be. It simply meant a piece of furniture made by a joiner. A maunde (mande, mawnde) was a wicker basket and a portmantle (portmantue, portmanoe) a trunk, words you might not find in a modern dictionary. When you are working with words you know might be out of date and spelled differently, you must be very careful. If you see "lyckerd butts", you might assume that they are a number of casks (butts) storing alcoholic beverages but it actually refers to the tanning of leather used for soles of shoes.If you assume the "cressett" is a reference to the family crest, you will be disappointed to learn it is a small iron vessel to hold oil to be burned as a torch. While a sake, secke or seike is what it appears - a sack - sacke is the name of dry Spanish white wines imported from early in the 16th century. Noggin or nogging is not a head, but a small drinking vessel. It can also refer to a small quantity of liquor. Hassocks are not footstools but tufts of rushes or coarse grass. When dealing with unfamiliar terms and spellings it is best to seek guidance from an experienced researcher. When dealing with unusual terms and spelling, it might be a good idea to consult someone more experienced in that field to make sure you are not starting down the wrong path that could cause you much wasted time and money. About the Author I began genealogy in 1970 when we were living in Ogden, Utah for a short time. I was immediately hooked when, on my first visit to the local Family History Center, I found my great-grandparents in the 1850 Ohio census. I have been researching ever since on my own family and for others. I soon recognized the value of computer programs for keeping track of the data. I was a founding member of the Computer Genealogy Society of San Diego and editor of the newsletter. I have written a third party manual on ROOTS III and, with Joan Lowrey, authored two guides to genealogy software. Using ROOTS III and WordPerfect, I have written several family history books for others, but have yet to stop researching long enough to complete my own family history!

I am trying to obtain a copy of a marriage license from 1848. It doesn't show up on the IRAD listing. I have written and requested information on obtaining a copy, how much etc. I enclosed a SASE for a response, and I've never gotten one. Can someone tell me how much it costs to obtain a copy of marriage licenses? Thanks, Susan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: EARLS BOYD Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5g.2ADI/59.2 Message Board Post: Jesse Peter was the son of Jesse and Mary Boyd Earls of Floyd Cos., Va, Ky and Ironton, Oh. Email me at kentbartram@attbi.com for more info on this line.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: EARLS BOYD Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5g.2ADI/59.1 Message Board Post: Jesse Peter was the son of Jesse and Mary Boyd Earls of Floyd Cos., Va, Ky and Ironton, Oh. Email me at kentbartram@attbi.com for more info on this line.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: PATE Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5g.2ADI/45.2.1 Message Board Post: Gene, Have we talked before? I'm a desc. of Lewis PATE b 1791 TN, who was in Washington Co., IL 1830 and 1840. Do you know who was Geo. Wash. PATE's father? I'm trying to find Lewis' father.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: PATE, TINDELL, PENTER Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5g.2ADI/136 Message Board Post: Would like to discuss the Matthew PATE (1785-1849) and Lewis PATE (1791-1870's) families of Washington Co., IL. They are of an age to be brothers, but no connection found so far. Specifically, I'm trying to determine to which family two girls belong. Cyrena S. PATE was born about 1824 IL and married William A. PENTER 16 Apr 1843 in Washington Co., IL. They left the area between 1848-1850 and were in Franklin Co., MO for the 1850 census. In 1870, they were in Greene Co., MO. Cyrena died 18 Oct 1887 in Christian Co., MO. All of the above information was given to me by a descendant who recently contacted me. My Lewis PATE did have a daughter age 10-15 in the 1840 census of Washington Co., IL, making her born bet. 1824-1830. Up until now, I had assumed that daughter was probably Elizabeth PATE who married William TINDELL 14 Jun 1847 in Greene Co., MO (no age given), because In 1850, Lewis and his children were in Greene Co., Benton twp. (later part of Webster Co.). I can't remember whether I have looked for the TINDELLs in 1850. I did search Greene Co. marriage records for TINDELL, and William appears to have remarried in 1856 and 1870, so they were probably a young couple and Elizabeth probably died young. Would appreciate any help.

The Orleans Parish volunteers who participate in the US GenWeb Project recently uploaded a wonderful birth records index that could be useful to anyone whose ancestors spent time in New Orleans. It is an alphabetical listing of New Orleans births from 1790-1900. They are alphabetical as follows: surname, child's name, father's first name, then mother's name (first & surname), sex, race, then the birth date and then location numbers. Using the surname, you can find nearly complete family groupings all in one place, and sort out which children were borne by which wife. Also note: You have to be creative with spelling and remember that the first names can vary too. You can find the index at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/la/orleans/birth_alpha.htm Even if you believe you have no Southern roots, it is worth having a look. Many 19th-century German and Swiss immigrant families entered through the port of New Orleans, and stayed long enough to make some more money before proceeding by the water route to German enclaves up north. From: Kathleen Wieland ------------------------------------- Please note, it takes a while to load each page and you have to scroll across to the right for all the information. It is well worth the wait and trouble. Gloria Dettleff

Have recently received new info on my Seth Reeves. To update everyone: Seth Reeves possibly born in or near Richview IL, died c1937 possibly in Wyoming. Seth married a Charlotte Jane Loman/Lowman/Lohman. She was born c1887 and died Nov 19, 1929 in Indiana. Seth had a sister named Abbie. Abbie was married two times. 1) Marion George 2)Simmie Schimall. Abbie and Marion had Samuel, Willie Flossie Mae and Blossom. Abbie and Simmie had Essie and Vaccie - I think those are the names, very hard to read the letters. Any one out there have more info on this Seth Reeves? Thanks, Ed Crabtree familyhistorian@kc.rr.com

Forgot to say to get to these cards go to ebay and put in Nashville, IL (not Illinois). Ava

Hi again, Also on ebay are two post cards from and to Nashville, IL. I asked about the address ......to whom and from sent. Got the following answers on each card. Ava reply from sellers below: Greeting card. As best as I can make out the script writing Address TO; Miss Ermma Ritterskamp 509 n 5th st Vincennes IND No from name or addy just a message dated 07.23.1910 signed looks like J.D. Marm ?? not certain Old car fixing flat card This card doesnt state who it is from. It is addressed to Mr. Gustav Seifeldt, Nashville, Illinoise RFD #2 Box 32. Thank you for your interest Ken

Hi guys, Ebay has two billheads or bills for Buhrmann from Dentist Lesemann 1897-1901 and for shirts from Becker and Meyer 1906. Neat if it matches any of your names. I was hoping for the Dentist to be MY Phillips....sigh. Hope someone can benefit. Go to ebay. Put in Nashville, Illinois. It also has a real photo postcard of Lumber Co. which I wasn't able to open but it must be made of gold since the asking price is so high. Tlhe others are cheap. Ava :)

This is from the List Administrator of the Schleswig-Holstein List. It is a nice collection of the houses that many of our German ancestors may have lived in. It is an English site - enjoy. I found a homepage with pictures of the Schleswig-Holstein open-air museum: http://home.t-online.de/home/wolfgang.boock/6EnglishVersion.html

If anyone is in the St. Louis area and has a County Library Card they can access HeritageQuest Online which has a book.."This is Washington County" online. ( digitised) The book mentions the Lively family. I really don't know any dates...etc.. of the Lively Family. I believe Lively Grove is named after this family. I think historically the family had a tradgedy with Indians in Illinois, as they were very early settlers. Perhaps..even close to the time of Daniel Boone. Sends my imagination running :) I think very illustrious family and a name you should be proud to carry. Would love to hear the story from a decendent of the Lively's. Barb -- Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Przygoda Bochantin Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5g.2ADI/134.1 Message Board Post: I copied the following from the Nashville Journal hope this helps Nashville Journal, Jan 10, 1952, pg 1 and 4 John Przygoda, SR. John Przygoda, Sr. of DuBois was laid to rest in St Charles Cemetery there Saturdaay morning following mass in St Charles church. Mr Przygoda died suddenly on New Year's day at the age of 74 years, 2 months and 18 days. Monsignor Joseph Ceranski of dubois, Father Stephan Kraus of Todd's Mill, Father Stanley Ksycki of Scheller and Father Wimpe of St Louis officiated and JD Mann was in charge. John Przygoda was born in Pittsfield, Mass. Oct 13, 1874, and married Pelagia Boczek November 7, 1894 in St Charles church. Thirteen children were born to the union, two of whom preceeded their father in death. He is survived by his wife and 11 children as follows: Stanley of St Louis, Sister M Theobald, SSND of Teutopolis, Ill., Frances (Mrs. Frank Andrews) of DuBois, John of Pinckneyville, Catherine (Mrs. James Rice), Casimir, and Leo all of St Louis, Joseph of Radom, Julia (Mrs Arol Preston) of Onley, Clara (Mrs Wilford Mc Lain) of DuQuoin, and Daniel of Tamaroa. Also surviving are 33 grandchildren and 18 great-grandchildren. Mr. Przygoda's entire life, with the exception of the last four years was spent on his farm in Perry County. Seven years ago he and his wife celebrated their golden wedding anniversary on their old homestead. Shortly after the celebration, Mr Przygoda retired and moved to DuBois.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: STROUSE/BISHOP/MARTIN/NORRIS Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/5g.2ADI/135 Message Board Post: Unknow first name, STROUSE, married Mary Ellen, last name unknown in Indiana about 1833 and Mr. Strouse died about 1838. Two daughters were born to them, Naomy in 1834 in Indiana and Isabel in 1837, Indiana. Mary Ellen remarried a James Martin in IL in 1839 and lived in Washington Co., IL. Daughter, Naomy, married a John BISHOP in 1850. Hope to find ancestors of Mary Ellen in hopes of finding out her maiden name. She was born in Ohio in 1815 and rumor has it she was Cherokee.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/5g.2ADI/84.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Thank you, but although these Cranes are no doubt related to my Cranes, they are not mine. My info (from LDS FamilySearch) tells me that my Isaac Crane was born in Belleville, Washington Cty, IL on Oct. 30, 1825; married Nancy Shaw in 1846; and died in St. Clair Cty, IL in 1894. Nancy however had come from Tennessee, and before that her family came from North Carolina--as, I saw, many of the Washington and St. Clair County settlers did (including Cranes). I have found a rich lode of families intermarried, journeyed west together or subsequently soon after, from these areas as the frontier edged west from the Appalachians through the first half of the 19th century. What I have not been able to do is trace *my* Isaac Crane back any further.