List, For those who may not have read these, the Illinois State Archives has Research Pamphlets online describing exactly what counties they have for Illinois State censuses; Federal Census, Land, Probate [housed at IRAD], etc. Their research requirements are also given, plus an e-mail request link for those who are Illinois residents. Here is the link to the Pamphlets. http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/services.html

List The Branching Out quarterlies are now spoken for also. Thank you to all that responded. Occasionally other issues are donated to the local society. When others come up, I'll make it known to the List - this seems to be a good forum for dispersal! Diane

List - Leah Pearson was first to ask for the Randolph County quarterlies, thank you. Diane

List, Contact me (first come first serve) if you have an interest in the following (a friend has them - willing to mail free in continental U.S.) A set of Randolph Co. Genealogical Soc. quarterlies from Vol. 1 No. 1 1990 through Vol. 8 No. 1 1998. Branching Out from St. Clair Co. 1980-1990. Diane rengen@compu-type.net

List From Larry Kritis, 1st Vice-Pres and program organizer for SCCGS next meeting on 3 February 2005 - free - visitors welcome http://www.compu-type.net/rengen/stclair/stcabout.htm Topic: The Colored Aristocracy of St. Louis Speakers: Dr. Edward Hudlin, retired professor of philosophy and African-American Studies and Mr. John Waide, St. Louis University archivist at the Pius X11 Memorial Library. They will discuss Dr. Hudlin's rich family history and the early black pioneers who influenced St. Louis history.

Historical Probate records - what a challenge! I'd like to add some things I've learned along the way too. As Sande and Jim point out, not all people have probate records, and those that do, may not have had a Will made (have you?). Focusing on St. Clair's probate records, here are very broad generalizations for which any number of extenuating circumstances may alter the outcome. You must know the laws in force at the time the case was probated to understand how/why an estate was handled a certain way. (Caveats - I am not a lawyer and am not an expert on this subject, but I believe some lawyers and others with more experience are on this List - feel free to chime in.): 1. if a Will was made, the wishes in the Will are to be followed by *the executor* named in the Will. Current law stipulates all 'original Wills' filed for probate must be retained indefinitely by the court. St. Clair's seem to be fairly intact. IRAD has our original probated wills in paper form (unless stolen or some other fate). If the original paper Will no longer exists, check the microfilmed probated Wills. I think these were filmed in the 1960s, so only those still at the courthouse at that time then they will be on the film. a - at death the Will is filed for probate - people who witnessed the signing of the Will verify its authenticity befor the court. The executor can ask someone else be appointed in his place with court approval. b - the Will is then recorded verbatim in the probated Will Record book. The original Will is kept by the court--if it did not survive for whatever reason, look for the probated Will Record. [I know of at least one instance where an heir's name was omitted from the Will Record - 1814]. You can tell the difference between a Will recorded before or after death by the presence/absence of the paragraph that follows the transcribed Will stating the witnesses verified it in court. If you have no other date of death for an ancestor, you know he died sometime after the Will was written and before the date filed for probate. I've seen wills probated anywhere from a couple weeks to months after the death. Laws were passed through the years specifying the minimum (or maximum) time allowed before the Will had to be presented in court. Some Wills that are filed for record before death are recorded in the Recorder of Deeds books (I've not seen too many instances of this but there are some). In fact, ancestors sometimes made a Will in his home county just prior to his travels or move 'out West'. 2. if NO Will was made, *and* the estate of the deceased is over the limit designated by law, or he owned land, or there were claims against the estate, the case is Intestate (no Will), and must go through the probate process. The court then appoints *an administrator* to take care of paying claims filed with the court, sees that minor children are taken care of (a guardian gets appointed by the court), figures out who the heirs are and files these with the court, arranges for appraisers, files all receipts for things paid out of the estate including the Sale Bill, and, for long, drawn-out cases, files interim accounts. The law at the time of death governs how the money/land is distributed to heirs, which heirs have a right to inherit and when, and how the widow is to be taken care of. Some things I've noticed over the years: a - the closer a case is to 1900, the more likely you will find all of the papers associated with the case. Probate Case Files (are supposed to have) all the papers associated with a case - but if there was a Will filed, get a copy of that in the Probate Wills b - guardianship papers per se were not filed with intestate files until about the 1870s c - if there is no case file and you expect one, check the court record books kept at different stages of the probate process - these duplicate certain papers filed at court (Admin and Exec Bonds, Inventory, Sale Bill, Admin Accounts, Final Distribution). I have run across a couple cases in the 1855-1860 period where the estate was not in the index by any spelling (yes there are typos), yet the various record books prove the case was probated and provide an transcription of whatever the book is to record. It may not be the entire picture, but it is better than nothing. d - at this time IRAD provides the best copies from film e - if you want to see the types of probate related records IRAD has for a particular county, here is the link to the IRAD database. The first bullet takes you to the search page. Type the word probate in the blank and limit the search by the county of interest. The link: http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/irad/iradholdings.html Last but not least, PLEASE do not forward this to other Maillists - instead, provide a link to ours so any corrections/additions subsequently posted will also be available to those interested. Simply instruct anyone to enter the letters ilstclai in the box at the Archiver http://archiver.rootsweb.com/ and then browse the posts for January 23 2005 Thanks so much, Diane PS for further reading on probate records: The Source: A Guidebook of American Genealogy by Szucs and Luebking (revised edition) The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy by Val Greenwood [GPC sells this http://genealogical.com/contact.asp?afid=]

Debbie I had the same problem, ask IRAD for an intestate will and hopefully you'll get something. I did. Sande in CA Debbie Vietzke wrote: >Dear All, >I apologize as I believe this information has been given out before...if someone has a previous email about probate records in St Clair County, please forward. > >I would like to get a copy of the probate records for my GGG Grandfather, William WOODS, who died 28 Apr 1866 and is buried in the Rittenhouse Cemetery. >I assume these records would be at the County Courthouse. >Who do I address this to and what exactly do I need to say? What is the cost? > >I have tried the IRAD, but his records are not on their list. Since I live in California, I have to do my research by mail. (One of these days I hope to get there in person:) , > >By the way, I do have a copy of the probate records for John WOODS, father of William WOODS and would be glad to share this with anyone interested. > >Thank you so much, >Debbie V. > > > > > >

Debbie, Not all individuals had probate records. In your GGG grandfather's case, that of William Woods, who died 28 Apr 1866, there is no probate record listed in the "Index to St. Clair County, Illinois Probated and Non-Probated Wills, 1772-1984, published by the St. Clair Co. Genealogical Society. That being the case, I seriously doubt if the St. Clair Co. Clerk at the courthouse will have such a record. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debbie Vietzke" <dkvietzke@hotmail.com> To: <ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 1:15 AM Subject: [ILSTCLAI] Probate records from St Clair County > Dear All, > I apologize as I believe this information has been given out before...if > someone has a previous email about probate records in St Clair County, > please forward. > > I would like to get a copy of the probate records for my GGG Grandfather, > William WOODS, who died 28 Apr 1866 and is buried in the Rittenhouse > Cemetery. > I assume these records would be at the County Courthouse. > Who do I address this to and what exactly do I need to say? What is the > cost? > > I have tried the IRAD, but his records are not on their list. Since I live > in California, I have to do my research by mail. (One of these days I hope > to get there in person:) , > > By the way, I do have a copy of the probate records for John WOODS, father > of William WOODS and would be glad to share this with anyone interested. > > Thank you so much, > Debbie V. > > >

Dear All, I apologize as I believe this information has been given out before...if someone has a previous email about probate records in St Clair County, please forward. I would like to get a copy of the probate records for my GGG Grandfather, William WOODS, who died 28 Apr 1866 and is buried in the Rittenhouse Cemetery. I assume these records would be at the County Courthouse. Who do I address this to and what exactly do I need to say? What is the cost? I have tried the IRAD, but his records are not on their list. Since I live in California, I have to do my research by mail. (One of these days I hope to get there in person:) , By the way, I do have a copy of the probate records for John WOODS, father of William WOODS and would be glad to share this with anyone interested. Thank you so much, Debbie V.

Prepublication orders are being taken from the revised edition of 'Dutch Hill Prairie History' which will be going to the printer soon. This history includes the biographries of approximately 214 families who settled from 1818 to the middle 1800's in what is now Lenzburg Township, St. Clair Co., IL. Most family biographries contain at least 4 generations of information. The original book was published in 1976 and has been out of print for a number of years. Much information has been added to this revised edition. Reply to: mmhs@egyptian.net I'll be glad to try to answer any questions you may have. Martha Mae Schmidt --

Can anyone transcribe and send via e-mail, obit(s) from the Belleville News-Democrat. Arthur E. Langbehn, Jan 14, 15, & 16, 2004. Thanks. This individual goes back to Calumet City, IL. If you are connected to this family, or know of anyone in this family, making contact would be appreciated for both. We would be "related". I have recently discovered Langbehn family of Calumet City, and ancestors back to Germany. My Grandmother was Langbehn. Sharing the information is no problem. Richard

"is an automatic reply to your email message to maritag@earthlink.net This email address is protected by EarthLink spamBlocker. Your email message has been redirected to a "suspect email" folder for maritag@earthlink.net. In order for your message to be moved to this recipient's Inbox, he or she must add your email address to a list of allowed senders. Click the link below to request that maritag@earthlink.net add you to this list. _https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=maritag@earthlink.net&id=1cQIlB 56N3NZFpN1 _ (https://webmail.pas.earthlink.net/wam/addme?a=maritag@earthlink.net&id=1cQIlB56N3NZFpN1) " Earthlink is great LOL - this is the response I got from a message I sent to marita. Kind of apropos I would say......Diane - u did nothing wrong - if my mail were not getting thru I would be grateful for someone telling me why.

Diane ~ I am amazed at the work, effort and time you put in to help make the SCCGS the success that it is. You are very much appreciated, especially for those of us who live in far distances, out of the Belleville area. I join in with the many members who are also saying Thank you. Lynn Bruner Ziener Windermere, Florida Researching: (GUEST,SWAIN,WESTWOOD,ERWIN,BRIGHT,BOUL,BRUNER,WEIL).

Diane, you're the best. The St. Clair list is great, and you have been most helpful. Many thanks to you and the others that I've neglected to thank at times. Anne -----Original Message----- From: Craig, Sande & Munch [mailto:sancraigers@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 11:00 AM To: ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILSTCLAI] Re: ILSTCLAI-D Spam blockers & filters Diane is and always has been very helpful and is ALWAYS professional!! Thank you Diane for all you do!! You are definitely appreciated!! Sande in CA HEELY, GLENN, RANDLEMAN, SEEGER Rideout Family wrote: > Bob, your 100% right. > > Rosie Schaefer Rideout > Fallbrook, CA > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <RGB7847@aol.com> > To: <ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 6:05 AM > Subject: Re: [ILSTCLAI] Re: ILSTCLAI-D Spam blockers & filters > > >> Dear List & Diane: >> >> Your message to Marita & all on the St. Clair List was NOT >> insulting. It was >> informative to all who use some form of spam blocker or filter. I >> have had >> occasion where I've tried to contact someone with information that >> they asked >> for but got a message back saying I was not on the recipients >> approved mail >> list. What are we to do? Hope your reply helps to get the correct >> message >> across. I would also like for all to sign their messages with a >> first & last name. >> How do you address someone with a reply when you don't know their name? >> Very frustrating at times. Please keep up the great work that the >> St. Clair >> County list does! >> >> Bob Buecher >> rgb7847@aol.com >> St. Louis, Missouri >> "Without the past, there is no present or future." >> >> Ancestors of Robert Buecher >> http://www.hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/Ancestors.html >> >> Millstadt, IL, Genealogical Links [Links to genealogical research in >> Millstadt, IL] >> http://hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/links.html >> >> > > >

Dear List & Diane: Your message to Marita & all on the St. Clair List was NOT insulting. It was informative to all who use some form of spam blocker or filter. I have had occasion where I've tried to contact someone with information that they asked for but got a message back saying I was not on the recipients approved mail list. What are we to do? Hope your reply helps to get the correct message across. I would also like for all to sign their messages with a first & last name. How do you address someone with a reply when you don't know their name? Very frustrating at times. Please keep up the great work that the St. Clair County list does! Bob Buecher rgb7847@aol.com St. Louis, Missouri "Without the past, there is no present or future." Ancestors of Robert Buecher http://www.hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/Ancestors.html Millstadt, IL, Genealogical Links [Links to genealogical research in Millstadt, IL] http://hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/links.html

Diane is and always has been very helpful and is ALWAYS professional!! Thank you Diane for all you do!! You are definitely appreciated!! Sande in CA HEELY, GLENN, RANDLEMAN, SEEGER Rideout Family wrote: > Bob, your 100% right. > > Rosie Schaefer Rideout > Fallbrook, CA > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: <RGB7847@aol.com> > To: <ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 6:05 AM > Subject: Re: [ILSTCLAI] Re: ILSTCLAI-D Spam blockers & filters > > >> Dear List & Diane: >> >> Your message to Marita & all on the St. Clair List was NOT >> insulting. It was >> informative to all who use some form of spam blocker or filter. I >> have had >> occasion where I've tried to contact someone with information that >> they asked >> for but got a message back saying I was not on the recipients >> approved mail >> list. What are we to do? Hope your reply helps to get the correct >> message >> across. I would also like for all to sign their messages with a >> first & last name. >> How do you address someone with a reply when you don't know their name? >> Very frustrating at times. Please keep up the great work that the >> St. Clair >> County list does! >> >> Bob Buecher >> rgb7847@aol.com >> St. Louis, Missouri >> "Without the past, there is no present or future." >> >> Ancestors of Robert Buecher >> http://www.hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/Ancestors.html >> >> Millstadt, IL, Genealogical Links [Links to genealogical research in >> Millstadt, IL] >> http://hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/links.html >> >> > > >

Bob, your 100% right. Rosie Schaefer Rideout Fallbrook, CA ----- Original Message ----- From: <RGB7847@aol.com> To: <ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 16, 2005 6:05 AM Subject: Re: [ILSTCLAI] Re: ILSTCLAI-D Spam blockers & filters > Dear List & Diane: > > Your message to Marita & all on the St. Clair List was NOT insulting. It > was > informative to all who use some form of spam blocker or filter. I have > had > occasion where I've tried to contact someone with information that they > asked > for but got a message back saying I was not on the recipients approved > mail > list. What are we to do? Hope your reply helps to get the correct > message > across. I would also like for all to sign their messages with a first & > last name. > How do you address someone with a reply when you don't know their name? > Very frustrating at times. Please keep up the great work that the St. > Clair > County list does! > > Bob Buecher > rgb7847@aol.com > St. Louis, Missouri > "Without the past, there is no present or future." > > Ancestors of Robert Buecher > http://www.hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/Ancestors.html > > Millstadt, IL, Genealogical Links [Links to genealogical research in > Millstadt, IL] > http://hometown.aol.com/rgb5400/links.html > >

Diane, addressing this issue publically, by name was insulting. I will unsubscribe Marita On Jan 15, 2005, at 8:00 PM, ILSTCLAI-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > > > ILSTCLAI-D Digest Volume 05 : Issue 10 > > Today's Topics: > #1 John Harrington ["Kim Myers" > <genealogykim@hotmail.] > #2 Re: East St. Louis city directorie ["Diane Walsh" > <rengen@compu-type.n] > #3 Marita ["Diane Walsh" > <rengen@compu-type.n] > #4 Spam and earth link [Maestrowz@aol.com] > > Administrivia: > To unsubscribe from ILSTCLAI-D, send a message to > > ILSTCLAI-D-request@rootsweb.com > > that contains in the body of the message the command > > unsubscribe > > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software > requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. > > ______________________________ > > > From: "Kim Myers" <genealogykim@hotmail.com> > Date: January 14, 2005 6:52:56 PM PST > To: ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: John Harrington > > > Seeking help to review East Saint Louis directories from 1880 through > 1910. I'm seeking any listing for John Henry Harrington in East Saint > Louis during this time. I believe he may have lived initially on St. > Clair Avenue and then later at 2022 N 17th Street. I'm specifically > interested in the dates, addresses and any names residing in the same > household. I would be happy to cover anyones expenses to obtain and > provide me with copies of the requested pages. > > Kim Myers > > ______________________________ > > > From: "Diane Walsh" <rengen@compu-type.net> > Date: January 15, 2005 1:51:21 PM PST > To: ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: East St. Louis city directories - copies from BPL and > StLPL > > > Both the Belleville public library > http://www.compu-type.net/rengen/stclair/stchome.htm and > St. Louis city library have various years of the above directory on > film and will make photocopies at cost plus postage - > > Belleville charges $10 per hour plus copy (50 cents from film) and > mailing costs, payable in advance. Can probably copy 4 to 5 > directories for one surname in an hour. They can estimate this for > you. Here is mailing info > http://www.compu-type.net/rengen/stclair/BPL.htm > > St. Louis PL will bill you, limit *might be* 2 directory searches at a > time as of 6 months ago but I think is basically limited to 30 > minutes. Check with them for policy. At this link > http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/using/refcost.htm click Reference to email > them your specific request. > > Diane W > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Myers" > <genealogykim@hotmail.com> > To: <ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 8:52 PM > Subject: [ILSTCLAI] John Harrington > > >> Seeking help to review East Saint Louis directories from 1880 through >> 1910. I'm seeking any listing for John Henry Harrington in East >> Saint Louis during this time. I believe he may have lived initially >> on St. Clair Avenue and then later at 2022 N 17th Street. I'm >> specifically interested in the dates, addresses and any names >> residing in the same household. I would be happy to cover anyones >> expenses to obtain and provide me with copies of the requested pages. >> >> Kim Myers >> >> > > ______________________________ > > > From: "Diane Walsh" <rengen@compu-type.net> > Date: January 15, 2005 2:06:40 PM PST > To: ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Marita > > > List, please pardon this reply to all - it is directed to Marita (and > others who might have spam blockers) > Marita - you asked what you need to do to allow people on our maillist > to mail private replies. Here is what your server sent back to me. I > don't know how your spam blocker works but it seems you will either > have to read your suspect mail bag or have to alter something on your > end in order to get a reply directly. > Diane > > This is an automatic reply to your email message to > maritag@earthlink.net > > > This email address is protected by EarthLink spamBlocker. Your email > message has been redirected to a "suspect email" folder for > maritag@earthlink.net. In order for your message to be moved to this > recipient's Inbox, he or she must add your email address to a list of > allowed senders. > > > Click the link below to request that maritag@earthlink.net add you to > this list. [I did not click the link in case it was bogus] > ______________________________ > > > From: Maestrowz@aol.com > Date: January 15, 2005 2:23:08 PM PST > To: ILSTCLAI-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Spam and earth link > > > Unfortunately, Earthlink has done a great job of blocking everything. > It > took my own sister three tries to get me off the SPAM list! So those > of you who > have this and do not want to go through this for all of the possible > replies, > might want to set up a free account somewhere else - like yahoo and > check it > on site. > > Donnell > >

Unfortunately, Earthlink has done a great job of blocking everything. It took my own sister three tries to get me off the SPAM list! So those of you who have this and do not want to go through this for all of the possible replies, might want to set up a free account somewhere else - like yahoo and check it on site. Donnell

List, please pardon this reply to all - it is directed to Marita (and others who might have spam blockers) Marita - you asked what you need to do to allow people on our maillist to mail private replies. Here is what your server sent back to me. I don't know how your spam blocker works but it seems you will either have to read your suspect mail bag or have to alter something on your end in order to get a reply directly. Diane This is an automatic reply to your email message to maritag@earthlink.net This email address is protected by EarthLink spamBlocker. Your email message has been redirected to a "suspect email" folder for maritag@earthlink.net. In order for your message to be moved to this recipient's Inbox, he or she must add your email address to a list of allowed senders. Click the link below to request that maritag@earthlink.net add you to this list. [I did not click the link in case it was bogus]