My caution was just intended as a friendly alert, since years ago, I was send a chapter from the book. A newcomer to genealogy could easily be fooled by the apparent authority of the writer. I agree that I do not accept something as gospel just because I see it in print--in fact, even less so these days--since everyone has access to publishing in one form or another. What is really good about having things online is that it provides a forum for checking and doublechecking and documenting everything. I know that years ago when I started researching, I sometimes forgot to write down my sources. Now I am much more careful. At the same time, I also agree that you can never know everything about your family lines. It is this perpetually unfinished puzzled that makes it so fascinating. If I were to get uptight about getting it right all of the time, I would probably have to be on meds. No thanks! I enjoy it, especially the hunt for stories and details that bring people t! o life. I too would be glad to know more about Arthur Crocker. I am descended from him and wife who is assumed to be (although not absolutely proven to be) Elizabeth Wakefield. Thanks for writing. Sherry "Nancee(McMurtrey)Seifert" <iggy29@rnetinc.net> wrote: Unfortunately, just about 'everyone' disproves something someone else wrote about their ancestors.. That's why I wouldn't put anything out there for someone to tear apart. When I read genealogy books, I take what I can and leave the rest -- there is no such thing as perfection in this area; but at least he took the time to put it into print for others to read. Nothing personal intended, but I think we need to relax a bit about tracing our ancestors -- we will NEVER know the whole truth about everyone!! Best Regards, Nancee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SHERRY MAZZETTI Date: 11/30/05 20:29:33 To: ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ILSHELBY] caution on Wakefield Just a general caution to anyone researching the Shelby Co. Wakefield family There is a book, out of print, but still in circulation that incorrectly traces our family to New England. It is called the Wakefield Memorial and was published about 100 years ago. Mike Wakefield who is now deceased largely disproved that and his work is being carried on by Lonnie Jim Wakefield and others. Our Wakefields were from the south. Sherry ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== Do not send Virus messages to the list. "Problems with the Shelby Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey." timcasey1@verizon.net

Dori, What this about new info on Arthur Crocker? I'd love to have some new leads when I go to the Raleigh Archives! Bess (Descendant of Mary Hooper and Levi Nance) -----Original Message----- From: Dori189@aol.com [mailto:Dori189@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 12:45 AM To: ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILSHELBY] Wakefield Nancee, I am inclined to agree with you. I have never heard of the Wakefield book that Sherry Mazzetti is referring too, however most of her Wakefields, and mine, are the same. They originated (as far back as traced) to NC, SC, and GA. I have ancestors from two different Wakefield families, whom I believe to be related, but it is not been established, just seems very obvious. The joy, and spark, of research is new blood. I recently had mail exchange with a wonderful, and determined new researcher, working on both Crocker and Wakefield lines. She not only established the identity of my Arthur Crocker's brothers, and a sister, but also solved the mystery of "Aunt Betsy Riddle," who was born a Wakefield. Dori ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== Visit the Shelby Co IL ILGenWeb Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilshelb2/shelby.htm

Nancee, I am inclined to agree with you. I have never heard of the Wakefield book that Sherry Mazzetti is referring too, however most of her Wakefields, and mine, are the same. They originated (as far back as traced) to NC, SC, and GA. I have ancestors from two different Wakefield families, whom I believe to be related, but it is not been established, just seems very obvious. The joy, and spark, of research is new blood. I recently had mail exchange with a wonderful, and determined new researcher, working on both Crocker and Wakefield lines. She not only established the identity of my Arthur Crocker's brothers, and a sister, but also solved the mystery of "Aunt Betsy Riddle," who was born a Wakefield. Dori

Unfortunately, just about 'everyone' disproves something someone else wrote about their ancestors.. That's why I wouldn't put anything out there for someone to tear apart. When I read genealogy books, I take what I can and leave the rest -- there is no such thing as perfection in this area; but at least he took the time to put it into print for others to read. Nothing personal intended, but I think we need to relax a bit about tracing our ancestors -- we will NEVER know the whole truth about everyone!! Best Regards, Nancee ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SHERRY MAZZETTI Date: 11/30/05 20:29:33 To: ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [ILSHELBY] caution on Wakefield Just a general caution to anyone researching the Shelby Co. Wakefield family There is a book, out of print, but still in circulation that incorrectly traces our family to New England. It is called the Wakefield Memorial and was published about 100 years ago. Mike Wakefield who is now deceased largely disproved that and his work is being carried on by Lonnie Jim Wakefield and others. Our Wakefields were from the south. Sherry

Just a general caution to anyone researching the Shelby Co. Wakefield family. There is a book, out of print, but still in circulation that incorrectly traces our family to New England. It is called the Wakefield Memorial and was published about 100 years ago. Mike Wakefield who is now deceased largely disproved that and his work is being carried on by Lonnie Jim Wakefield and others. Our Wakefields were from the south. Sherry

We are trying to get information on the Pyle family and were told that Patricia Oates has much of this Marci and Nancy Rice -----Original Message----- From: Beverly Barger [mailto:bcookiegma@nts-online.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:01 PM To: ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILSHELBY] PYLE Nancy & Lynn, There are a number of PYLE buried in Green Hill Cemetery Montgomery Co, IL. Beverly (HIMES) BARGER ----- Original Message ----- > Nancy: > I have a great deal of information on the Pughs, Pyles, Halls, etc. A few notes to assist your research: > 1. Mary Pyle's father was John Pyle, grandfather Samuel Pyle. Interesting information about this family I received from Patricia Oates of this list. ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== Do not send Virus messages to the list. "Problems with the Shelby Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey." timcasey1@verizon.net

Nancy & Lynn, There are a number of PYLE buried in Green Hill Cemetery Montgomery Co, IL. Beverly (HIMES) BARGER ----- Original Message ----- > Nancy: > I have a great deal of information on the Pughs, Pyles, Halls, etc. A few notes to assist your research: > 1. Mary Pyle's father was John Pyle, grandfather Samuel Pyle. Interesting information about this family I received from Patricia Oates of this list.

Hello Barbara Finding the Tax Lists for the location you find the head of household & then Land Warrant and orders for Land Survey's for the head of household, court cases may be some help also. I just did a research on my Todd's (two brothers) that I knew lived in Fayette Co. PA. 1784 but could only find Tax List and 2 separate court cases for these brothers; I knew that one brother had a married son, and found on the Tax List for Fayette Co PA. that the son's wives family had also lived in the same county, so I checked the Land Warrant Survey Orders and found that both-in-laws were living next each other. I also found that they sold the land and went to Bourbon Co. KY. Then I went to that County Court House an requested a Will look-up, and found in-laws and brothers had died there leaving a Will. The Wills and Estate records I requested copies of and this gave me wife's names, children's names and the children's married names. I hope this helps some Lorraine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Smith" <eor@saber.net> To: <ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: [ILSHELBY] Need some teaching help! > Hello Members, > I need some help from you long time researchers and you research experts > please. > So many of you have family lines back to 1700s even 1600s. Well I have a > problem. How is it that you are able to get the wife and children names of > these families before they were put on census if you are unable to find > their death or anything else on them. > I can see how easy research is 1850 and on as all the family and where > they are from are put on the census, but how do you get the wife and > children names befor 1850. > I would welcome all the help I can get. > Thank you, > Barbara > eor@saber.net > > > ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Visit the Shelby Co IL ILGenWeb Site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilshelb2/shelby.htm > >

Beverly, My Hoopers first appear in IL, in ST. Claire County, early 1800s. By 1820 census, they were in Shelby County. By 1850, a good many had gone on to Arkansas. Some stayed in AR, and some returned to IL. My branch stayed in AR, and my direct line moved to CA in 1935. In the history of ST. Claire County, and Shelby County, there are many Wakefields, Crockers, Banksons, who were related to my Hoopers. I will check out your website. Dori

Barbara, Those still living at home, after 1850, and the close by neighbors in 1850, are the best. The close neighbors were usually married children, or parents. There are marriage, and death records. But, the very best is the will left by parents. This will give you names. Then, you can search land records, for purchase and sale. The spouses name is generally in the records, and grown children usually witness such papers. And, last, but certainly not least, is wonderful help from other researchers. Dori

Hello Members, I need some help from you long time researchers and you research experts please. So many of you have family lines back to 1700s even 1600s. Well I have a problem. How is it that you are able to get the wife and children names of these families before they were put on census if you are unable to find their death or anything else on them. I can see how easy research is 1850 and on as all the family and where they are from are put on the census, but how do you get the wife and children names befor 1850. I would welcome all the help I can get. Thank you, Barbara eor@saber.net

Hello, I do have a Williams line but it isn't connected to the Martha Attwood Taylor Nichols that I know of. I am unable to find my Bradley Taylor he married Julia Ann Smith I am not able to find there families who's daughter is Martha Attwood Taylor that married Charles E. Nichols. My Elemeretha Williams had a daughter Adaline Williams that married James Nowlin in ILL. I have no idea who Elemeretha married or her maiden name. I have never been able to find when or where James Nowlin died or where Bradley Taylor died. I do know Adaline later moved to M.O. Barbara eor@saber.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margie Scogin" <scoginm1@earthlink.net> To: <eor@saber.net> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:22 AM Subject: Attwood > Sorry, I just found this court record thing and am trying to tie in the > Moses Williams line from NC to MS. A lot of his descendants are still in > NC, but a couple found their way down south. My line is thru a Jesse > Williams whose second wife was Anna, Jesse was the son of Moses, c. 1794, > Brunswick County, Ms. He migrated to Leake County, MS and died there. > > Atwood just caught my "Fancy" I am curious about it also. > > Margie Scogin > > >

Nancy: I have a great deal of information on the Pughs, Pyles, Halls, etc. A few notes to assist your research: 1. Mary Pyle's father was John Pyle, grandfather Samuel Pyle. Interesting information about this family I received from Patricia Oates of this list. 2. The combined History of Shelby and Moultrie Counties, available on the net, has a great deal of information about Pughs. Evidently they were known as intrepid hunters and very early settlers. I hope you don't think this is a cop-out on my part, but these are sources with much more information than I copied into my notes. As I dig will send more references if this helps. LYNN in AZ

Amen to that. It's wonderful when we share the names, dates, places but rarely the documentation or where to find it. That's not always easy to find, especially if you don't live in the area where you have access to local records. Early on a very sincere cousin gave me a name of our ancestor. DAR records existed showing, yep, that was him. I was thrilled. But the Irish ancestor didn't come to the states. Another cousin back in 1920's had been approved by DAR for a man in VA by that name. He just wasn't ours. And there are those to this day that want the DAR records to be the one. Ludie ----- Original Message ----- From: Barbara Smith To: ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 3:06 AM Subject: [ILSHELBY] Need some teaching help! Hello Members, I need some help from you long time researchers and you research experts please. So many of you have family lines back to 1700s even 1600s. Well I have a problem. How is it that you are able to get the wife and children names of these families before they were put on census if you are unable to find their death or anything else on them. I can see how easy research is 1850 and on as all the family and where they are from are put on the census, but how do you get the wife and children names befor 1850. I would welcome all the help I can get. Thank you, Barbara eor@saber.net ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== Visit the Shelby Co IL ILGenWeb Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilshelb2/shelby.htm

Barbara: Land records, wills, and occasionally newspaper obits will help you find people in groups. County histories, which were popular in the late 1800's are a very valuable resource. Though many of the articles may be ego trips they do give families with several generations identified. Once you have the names official documents can confirm them. Hope this helps. LYNN in AZ

I have a Ponsler lady who married a Williams man and there were a couple children involved. Do not know if, or how long, any of them lived except for Margaret. This is the only Ponsler daughter I have not been able to follow up with as far as her descendants. I do have the marriage record - Margaret Elizabeth Ponsler & George W. Williams married November 14, 1869 Shelby County, Illinois ~ their children - Albert b. ca 1871 & Ada b. ca 1873 ~ Margaret died April 1, 1874. Antoinette (Tacoma, Washington) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Smith" <eor@saber.net> To: <ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:56 PM Subject: [ILSHELBY] Re: Attwood > Hello, > I do have a Williams line but it isn't connected to the Martha Attwood > Taylor Nichols that I know of. I am unable to find my Bradley Taylor he > married Julia Ann Smith I am not able to find there families who's daughter > is Martha Attwood Taylor that married Charles E. Nichols. > My Elemeretha Williams had a daughter Adaline Williams that married James > Nowlin in ILL. I have no idea who Elemeretha married or her maiden name. I > have never been able to find when or where James Nowlin died or where > Bradley Taylor died. I do know Adaline later moved to M.O. > Barbara > eor@saber.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie Scogin" <scoginm1@earthlink.net> > To: <eor@saber.net> > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:22 AM > Subject: Attwood > > > > Sorry, I just found this court record thing and am trying to tie in the > > Moses Williams line from NC to MS. A lot of his descendants are still in > > NC, but a couple found their way down south. My line is thru a Jesse > > Williams whose second wife was Anna, Jesse was the son of Moses, c. 1794, > > Brunswick County, Ms. He migrated to Leake County, MS and died there. > > > > Atwood just caught my "Fancy" I am curious about it also. > > > > Margie Scogin > > > > > > > > > > ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Do not send Virus messages to the list. > "Problems with the Shelby Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey." > timcasey1@verizon.net > > >

Dori, A cousin of my mother named Delmar HEINZ of Macon Co, IL married Jessie HOOPER. There were also HOOPER in Pike Co, IL. My RAY and SEGRASS lines were in Lincoln & Marion Co, MO and Pike and Macon Co, IL. I don't have a direct line of WAKEFIELD. There was a Robert H. BANNING married Lib ASKINS of Shelby Co, IL. There were some BANNING cousins of Shelby & Christian Co, IL of my paternal grandfather Ernest William HIMES. My paternal grandfather Ernest William HIMES's oldest sister Angeline Mary HIMES married John M. BANNING of Shelby Co, IL. My paternal grandfather was born in Cowden, Shelby Co, Illinois. I was a volunteer librarian at a Family History Center for a number of years. I always search for information on surnames connected somehow to my many surnames lines. I have found a lot of very good clues on my own direct lines doing those surname searches. My webpage has my line of ancestry plus my husbands and spouses of our five children's lines. I was born in Macon Co, IL. http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/Bcookiegma Beverly (HIMES) BARGER ----- Original Message ----- From: <Dori189@aol.com> To: <ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:07 AM Subject: Re: [ILSHELBY] Wakefield family > Beverly, > > I am more informed on the older generations. I do have a very complete (on > some lines), Wakefield file, that I can send you, if you would like to search > it for Paul. > > Odd names, as in the 1840s, Mathew Hooper married Polly Banning. They had > one child, and Polly died. His second wife was Nancy Askin. > > dori189@aol.com > > Dori > > > ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Do not send Virus messages to the list. > "Problems with the Shelby Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey." > timcasey1@verizon.net > >

Any relation to Lucille (ATWOOD) OSBORN of Vandalia, Fayette Co, Illinois? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Smith" <eor@saber.net> To: <ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 12:56 AM Subject: [ILSHELBY] Re: Attwood > Hello, > I do have a Williams line but it isn't connected to the Martha Attwood > Taylor Nichols that I know of. I am unable to find my Bradley Taylor he > married Julia Ann Smith I am not able to find there families who's daughter > is Martha Attwood Taylor that married Charles E. Nichols. > My Elemeretha Williams had a daughter Adaline Williams that married James > Nowlin in ILL. I have no idea who Elemeretha married or her maiden name. I > have never been able to find when or where James Nowlin died or where > Bradley Taylor died. I do know Adaline later moved to M.O. > Barbara > eor@saber.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Margie Scogin" <scoginm1@earthlink.net> > To: <eor@saber.net> > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 9:22 AM > Subject: Attwood > > > > Sorry, I just found this court record thing and am trying to tie in the > > Moses Williams line from NC to MS. A lot of his descendants are still in > > NC, but a couple found their way down south. My line is thru a Jesse > > Williams whose second wife was Anna, Jesse was the son of Moses, c. 1794, > > Brunswick County, Ms. He migrated to Leake County, MS and died there. > > > > Atwood just caught my "Fancy" I am curious about it also. > > > > Margie Scogin > > > > > > > > > > ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Do not send Virus messages to the list. > "Problems with the Shelby Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey." > timcasey1@verizon.net > >

Hello Nancy, My Pounnia Pugh married William Nichols in Christian county K.Y. in 1805 my line is from there son who they named after Pounnia's father Thomas Pugh who also signed the marraige cert. of William Nichols and Pounnia Pugh. Some of the Pugh and Nichols and Hall families moved to ILL. Bond, Shelby and Fayette. Thomas Pugh Nichols the son to William and Pounnia married Melinda Ginger which is on the ILL. state index and also on a marraige cert. of there sons which he names as his parents. The problem is when I sent for the will of Thomas P. Nichols it names Delinda Rhoads as his wife so Melinda Ginger had to have died soon after her marraige to Thomas but I can't find anything on her except her marraige to Thomas P. Nichols and their names on their sons marraige cert. I am trying to find this line as this is my broken line and others say my Thomas Nichols is not Thomas Pugh Nichols. William Nichols that is the father to Thomas Nichols was a executor of Thomas Pugh estate also was John Hall. I have lost Melinda Ginger which is my link to my Pugh and Ginger line which also stops me from joining the DAR. So I would welcome any and all help on this family line. Thanks, Barbara eor@saber.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Rice" <nanrice@frontiernet.net> To: <ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 6:03 PM Subject: RE: [ILSHELBY] Pugh family > We have info that Pugh's lived in Christian county Ky I hope this helps > a > bit > Nancy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara Smith [mailto:eor@saber.net] > Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 1:42 AM > To: ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [ILSHELBY] Pugh family > > Hello Everyone, > I have a Ponnia Pugh that married a William Nichols 1805 in K.Y. and his > father in-law was Thomas Pugh. Later both these families moved to Illinois > to Bond, Fayette and Shelby counties but there are more that stayed in > K.Y. > I remember looking up the Nichols and Pugh and Halls in the marriage > index. > I am sorry I lost all my research and I don't remember the county in K.Y. > William Nichols and a ? Hall were the exceters of Thomas Pugh estate. > This > > is my Broken link as they has a son whom they named Thomas Pugh Nichols > and > there seem to be 2 Thomas Nichols one married Delinda Rhoads and the other > married Melinda Ginger mine is the Thomas and Melinda line. > I would welcome any help on this Pugh, Hall, Nichols some of the Nichols > married others in this same Hall family. > Thanks, > Barbara > eor@saber.net > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Oates" <trish@texasinternet.com> > To: <ILSHELBY-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 10:36 PM > Subject: Re: [ILSHELBY] Pugh family > > >> If it is any help John Hall did not die in Fayette Co IL he died in >> Christian Co KY. His estate was settled there in about 1820 naming all >> of >> his kids including Beulah Hall Pugh. >> Pat Oates in TX >> >> >> >> At 09:01 AM 11/28/2005 -0600, you wrote: >>>I am looking for information on Thomas Pugh married to Beulah Hall and >>>her >>>mother Mary Pyle Hall who was supposed to have lived with or near them >>>until >>>her death on or about Aug 12 1846. Mary Pyle Hall moved to Shelby co >>>after >>>death of her husband John Hall Sr in Fayette co Ill. She is thought to >>>be >>>buried in Bolyard Cemetery in Shelby co Ill. >>> >> >> >> >> ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== >> Do not send Virus messages to the list. >> "Problems with the Shelby Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey." >> timcasey1@verizon.net >> >> > > > > ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Visit the Shelby Co IL ILGenWeb Site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilshelb2/shelby.htm > > > > > > ==== ILSHELBY Mailing List ==== > Visit the Shelby Co IL ILGenWeb Site > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilshelb2/shelby.htm > >

Beverly, I am more informed on the older generations. I do have a very complete (on some lines), Wakefield file, that I can send you, if you would like to search it for Paul. Odd names, as in the 1840s, Mathew Hooper married Polly Banning. They had one child, and Polly died. His second wife was Nancy Askin. dori189@aol.com Dori