In a message dated 8/3/05 10:51:44 A.M. Central Daylight Time, tillotso@yahoo.com writes: I am trying to locate my Grandfathers birth records, He was born in Illinois Could you clarify? Later you say your Grandfather was born in England--did you mean your Great Grandfather? And who was Gertie? Apparently George Mann's wife, because the wife of the man born in England was born in Holland? Anyway, I may have found a clue as to why George Mann Allison did not want you to look beyond him. There is a John P. Mann, in the 1910 Census for Randolph County, Chester Precinct. He is a prisoner at the Southern Illinois Penitentiary. He is a worker in the cell house. The last four columns (I can't read the headings, but I know they are online) are marked 0-9-5-X. No enumeration date was given. This was filled in with a thick pen so it is hard to be sure when numbers are given. He entered this country sometime in the 1890's. It looks as though he said he'd been here 16 years, but the emigration year really doesn't look like 1894. Perhaps you can view it yourself at your local library. Hope this may be of help. Joan in Illinois