I am looking for information on a Thomas and Martha Brown living in Pope County circa 1923. They are mentioned in my great great grandfather's will (John A. Scott). They are listed as non relatives. I don't know if they are married or if brother/sister. I am assuming they were married. So I am interested in Martha's maiden name. Should be around the Tansil/Rosebud area bottoms. jthrew@verizon.net

Does anyone know where the Perrin Cemetery is located and if so, has it been enumerated? In my notes on an old computer it states: David Noel buried in the Perrin Cemetery near Brownfield, Pope Co IL. I've checked the four cemetery books by Bear & Woodworth, no Perrin. Is it known by another name? Judy Foreman Lee _UdyDee43@aol.com_ (mailto:UdyDee43@aol.com) My families: Austin, Benard, Bowman, Brown, Crawford, Carr, Davidson, Doctorman, Echols, Fisher, Foreman, Glass, Hanna, Holmes, Hurford, Jackson, Jennings, Lamar, Lauderdale, Lee, Lewis, Maddox, Reams, Rumsey, Scott, Shadowen, Sipe, Slankard, Soward, Trovillion, Tomlinson/Linson, Vinyard, Whitley, Williams, etc.

Susan, THANK YOU FOR THIS!! I had no idea that NOEL(s) were in my family. I had Della WALTER, married to F.D. NOE.....and when I was doing the search on the NOEL inquiry here, I noticed a NOE listed in the record index. Thanks for this surprise. :o) ---carol jamlsh@aol.com wrote: >I have the following Noel information. I'm looking for information on Fred >Noel's wife Emma Taylor and who her second husband was. > >Descendants of David Noel > > 1 David Noel 1812 - >........ 2 Henry Noel 1856 - >........ 2 Dennison Noel 1857 - >........... +Nancy J. Bedford 1861 - >.................. 3 Nellie E. Noel 1879 - >..................... +Fred Wachter >............................ 4 Wade Wachter >.................. 3 Fred David Noel 1880 - 1953 >..................... +Della Walter 1887 - >............................ 4 Mary Noel 1908 - >............................... +Unknown Roborge >.................. *2nd Wife of Fred David Noel: >..................... +Emma Taylor 1879 - >............................ 4 Glenn Noel 1912 - 1914 >.................. 3 Henry W. Noel 1883 - >..................... +Hattie E. Unknown 1876 - > >Susan > > > > -- «:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::A:::» «:::C:::» «:::E:::» Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Carol Walter-Robinson, in Northwest CA Redwood-Pacific Coast born and raised in Northern and Southern IL.

NOEL families in Pope County, IL:/data 1860 Federal Census, Golconda Post Office HH# 169/167 DENING, J. W. age 33 KY (b. abt 1827) m Carpenter Delany, age 32 TN (b. abt 1828) f David E., age 7 TN (b. abt 1853) m *W. P. NOEL, age 21 KY (b. abt 1839) m Farmer Clarinda (NOEL), age 16 IL (b. abt 1844) f Nancy S. (NOEL), age 3 mos IL, f ~~~~>marriage: William P. NOEL to Miss Clarinda KING by Robert Ditterline. No specific date given...but between July 10 - July 19, 1859. ~~~~>marriage: Ezekel NOEL to Elizabeth ANDERSON, Dec 22, 1865. ~~~~>marriage: Ezekiah NOEL to Diana KING, Nov 10, 1873. ----------- Other NOEL marriages listed between 1813-1877 - let me know if any specific would be helpful to you. David (2) Dennis Downey I Downey J Henry N. John D. Martha S. Sarah J. -------------- 1880 Federal Census, Logan Prct. HH#23/23 NOEL, John D. age 36 IL, (parents b. KY) farmer (1844) Eliza C. age 33 IL, (parents b. IL) (1847) Millie A., age 12 IL, dau (1868) Ellen, age 10 IL, dau (1870) Julia C., age 8, dau (1872) HH#7/7 NOEL, Dennis, age 23 IL farmer; parents f. VA, m. TN Nancy J., age 19 TN; parents b.TN Nellie E., age 1 IL, dau James A. D., age 13 IL nephew India A., age 23 IL "workin in house" HH# 8/8 NOEL, Henry M., age 25 IL farming; parents f.VA, m.TN Emma L., age 19 IL wife Walter E., age 2 IL son ALLISTON, Dora, age 8 IL niece (Washington Prct.) HH# 164/164 NOEL, Perry age 39 KY married Farmer (parents b. blank) [aka: NOELL] Clara E., age 36 IL wife Laurinda, age 17 IL dau Sarah, age 15 IL dau John A. L., age 10 IL son Anna, age 5 IL dau Thomas P., 10 mos IL son MURPHY, Phillip age 20 IL, hired hand-farming ==1880 MORTALITY SCHEDULE, Pope Co, IL: NOEL, Dellie, age 2 female, b. IL, parents b. IL, died August, Logan Prct. - "Acute Dysitery" Dr. T. M. Dunning --------------------- NOEL(s) listed in Vol. 1 Families Biographies, Pope Co. Historical Society: Bert, Chris, J. Dallas, J. D., Julia (Slankard), Millie, Nell, Perry, W.H. ==Let me know if any above are of interest to you. ---carol ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Donnie and Mary Young wrote: >My husband's Noel line comes from Taylor Noel Sr. He had a son by the name of Ezekiel Noel who was born in the late 1700's in Pulaski Co Kentucky, and moved to Harrison Co where he married Nancy Dryden prior to 1811. (I'm sure I have more accurate dates, but I'm writing from memory right now). I am trying to sort through Ezekiel and Nancy's children. To my knowledge, their oldest child was David D. Noel. From internet records I found, he married Louisa Sydnor on Jul 19, 1832 in Pope Co Illinois. There is a possibility this is wrong, as I remembered reading they were married in Harrison Co Kentucky also. Another internet note said that Louisa Sydnor/Noel died in 1846. I was hoping someone could help me verify which Noel records belong to the Harrison Co Kentucky line. I traced David's brother, Dennis Noel to Peoria Co Illinois. Dennis is buried in Chilicothe (Peoria Co), and his family moved back to Gallatin Co Kentucky (where a lot of the Noel lines still reside).! >Marriages I found on the internet for David D. Noel -- >David D. Noel to Louisa Sydnor (she was born approx 1815 TN? and died approx 1846) 19 Jul 1832 >David Noel to Emiline Rose (she was born approx 1826) 23 Apr 1848 Golconda Pope Co IL >David Noel to Elizabeth Gay (can't find anything on her) 17 Apr 1859 Pope Co IL >Were the other Noel's in Pope Co related to David??? I noticed there is an Ezekiel Noel and a Dennis Noel in Pope Co....but they are not Ezekiel's children, so I am assuming they are children of David D. Noel. >Would love to hear from anyone who has information on these Noels. Thanks. ~ Mary in KY > > > > -- «:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::A:::» «:::C:::» «:::E:::» Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Carol Walter-Robinson, in Northwest CA Redwood-Pacific Coast born and raised in Northern and Southern IL.

========== Betty - Try to always go by birth year on family ancestors/members. It becomes very confusing if you don't - carol ========== Search: HOLLOMAN, Hickman - 1900 Federal Census, Pope Co, IL - Monroe Prct. HH 15/15 HOLLOMAN, *Jesse*, b. Feb 1850, age 50, marr 23 yrs., farmer, parents born IL .......................Susan, (8 children/8 living), b. Sept 1856, age 43, marr 23 yrs, parents b. IL .......................Lilly, dau, b. Apr 1882 IL (at school) .......................William, son, b. May 1884 IL (at school) ......................*Hickman*, son, b. Feb 1889 IL (at school) .....................Asbel, son, b. Jan 1892 IL .....................Joe, son, b. May 1894 IL .....................Kate, dau, b. Mar 1898 IL 1. ~~~> marriage: Jesse HOLLOMAN (21) to Susan SPECK (18) by Jacob Hayes, J.P. on Mar 11, 1875 Pope Co, IL, Bk D, pg 19, #0711 2. ~~~> Jesse's dau, Margaret b. abt 1873, lists father's name and mother's maiden as LAIN. She and her groom both residing in Shetlerville, Hardin County, IL; but married at John T. Carter residence in Pope County....date: Jan 21, 1893. Groom's name is Obediah HINES, son of Samuel HINES and wife: JONES. ==== 1860 Federal Census - Golconda Post Office HH #213/210 --->error in surname spelling: HOLIMAN HOLLOMAN, H. , age 35 IL farmer <Hickman Holloman> ........................Elizabeth, age 34 IL .........................Hannah, age 13 IL .........................*Jessie*, age 10 IL .........................Hickman, age 9 IL (b.abt 1851) .........................Amanda J., age 7 IL .........................Pleasant, age 5 IL (male) .........................John B., age 1 IL [John B.'s marr license/1885 lists "Hickman HOLLOMAN as father] 1. ~~~> marriage: Hickman HOLLOMAN to Nancy Jane ISOMS, by Spencer B. Floyd, Esq. on Jan 10, 1845, Pope Co, IL (Bk A, pg 375) 2. ~~~> marriage: Hickman HOLLOMAN to Elizabeth Ann HARPER, by William Belford, Esq. on Dec 20, 1845 Pope Co, IL (Bk A, pg 380) THREE GENERATIONAL Hickman HOLLOMAN(s) confirmed. 1. Hickman HOLLOMAN (1) b. abt 1825 IL - father to Jesse 2. Hickman HOLLOMAN (2) b. abt 1851 IL - brother to Jesse 3. Hickman HOLLOMAN (3), b. abt 1889 IL - son to Jesse HAPPY TRAILS! :o) ===== Bbfritch@aol.com wrote: >Anyone have Hickman Holloman? Not my direct line, but I'm trying to >straighten his family out for someone who doesn't have internet access. > >I can't even get Hickman straight - it seems like there are three with that >name. > >Thanks, >Betty > > > > -- «:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::A:::» «:::C:::» «:::E:::» Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Carol Walter-Robinson, in Northwest CA Redwood-Pacific Coast born and raised in Northern and Southern IL.

In a message dated 2/3/2006 11:23:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, dal747@fuse.net writes: I'll keep an eye out for him, and will let you know if I come across anything that might help. ~ Mary Thanks Mary, I appreciate that. Linda in TN

The name Garnett is very popular with the Noel line of Virginia, so I can understand how hard it would be to break down that brick wall. I have seen many Garnett Noel's, but none with matching details. I'll keep an eye out for him, and will let you know if I come across anything that might help. ~ Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: <WXFORDS@aol.com> To: <ILPOPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:54 AM Subject: Re: [ILPOPE-L] New to list....looking for information on Noel families of Pop... > > In a message dated 2/3/2006 8:16:29 A.M. Central Standard Time, > dal747@fuse.net writes: > > Would love to hear from anyone who has information on these Noels. > Thanks. > ~ Mary in KY > > > > Mary, > Wish I could help you. I do a lot of research in Southern Illinois. > I > have been researching a Garnett NOEL for years trying to locate his > parents. > He was born 3-31-1802 in VA, married a Caroline ROUSE in Kentucky and > migrated to Logan Co., KY in 1837. If you ever run across this family > would > appreciate any help you could offer. > > Linda in TN > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/249 - Release Date: 2/2/2006 > >

In a message dated 2/3/2006 8:16:29 A.M. Central Standard Time, dal747@fuse.net writes: Would love to hear from anyone who has information on these Noels. Thanks. ~ Mary in KY Mary, Wish I could help you. I do a lot of research in Southern Illinois. I have been researching a Garnett NOEL for years trying to locate his parents. He was born 3-31-1802 in VA, married a Caroline ROUSE in Kentucky and migrated to Logan Co., KY in 1837. If you ever run across this family would appreciate any help you could offer. Linda in TN

My husband's Noel line comes from Taylor Noel Sr. He had a son by the name of Ezekiel Noel who was born in the late 1700's in Pulaski Co Kentucky, and moved to Harrison Co where he married Nancy Dryden prior to 1811. (I'm sure I have more accurate dates, but I'm writing from memory right now). I am trying to sort through Ezekiel and Nancy's children. To my knowledge, their oldest child was David D. Noel. From internet records I found, he married Louisa Sydnor on Jul 19, 1832 in Pope Co Illinois. There is a possibility this is wrong, as I remembered reading they were married in Harrison Co Kentucky also. Another internet note said that Louisa Sydnor/Noel died in 1846. I was hoping someone could help me verify which Noel records belong to the Harrison Co Kentucky line. I traced David's brother, Dennis Noel to Peoria Co Illinois. Dennis is buried in Chilicothe (Peoria Co), and his family moved back to Gallatin Co Kentucky (where a lot of the Noel lines still reside). Marriages I found on the internet for David D. Noel -- David D. Noel to Louisa Sydnor (she was born approx 1815 TN? and died approx 1846) 19 Jul 1832 David Noel to Emiline Rose (she was born approx 1826) 23 Apr 1848 Golconda Pope Co IL David Noel to Elizabeth Gay (can't find anything on her) 17 Apr 1859 Pope Co IL Were the other Noel's in Pope Co related to David??? I noticed there is an Ezekiel Noel and a Dennis Noel in Pope Co....but they are not Ezekiel's children, so I am assuming they are children of David D. Noel. Would love to hear from anyone who has information on these Noels. Thanks. ~ Mary in KY

Anyone have Hickman Holloman? Not my direct line, but I'm trying to straighten his family out for someone who doesn't have internet access. I can't even get Hickman straight - it seems like there are three with that name. Thanks, Betty

By the way....;o) Henry W. STEINKAMP, age 14, b. June, 1885 IL appears in the 1900 Census, Pope County, IL - Logan Prct. HH#58/58: -- STEINKAMP, Wm. F. b. Aug 1889, IL; age 40 (par. b. Germany), farmer wife, Louisa (7children/7living), b. Jan 1863 IL; age 37 (par. b. Germany) son, Henry W., b. June 1885 IL; age 14 dau, Sophia L., b. Mar 1887 IL; age 13 (at school) dau, Anna M., b. Jan 1889 IL, age 11 (at school) dau, Emma M. , b. Mar 1896, age 4 son, Walter H., b. Nov 1891, age 8 dau, Ollie V., b. Nov 1897, age 2 dau, Olive, b. May 1900, age 0 --carol JThrew wrote: >/I am looking for any information on Coney (Connie) Steinkamp circa 1923. >Children of Coney were: John Carlos, Walter Howard, Ruth Louisa, Beatrice >May, Fred Raymond, and Selma Steinkamp. >I would like to know the relation/connection of Coney to John A. Scott, her >husband's name, birthday, marriage date, death date, where buried..... any >vitals. >John A. Scott's will has her listed as granddaughter. He died in 1923. >I am trying to verify the granddaughter connection. > >Janice Bradford Threw/ > > > > > -- «:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::A:::» «:::C:::» «:::E:::» Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Carol Walter-Robinson, Northwest CA Pacific Coast

Pope County Families and Histories, Pope County Historical Society, Golconda, IL - Vol. 1; pg. 38 ("Tansil") "The first Tansil store was south about a mile from the present old buildings, operated first by John A. SCOTT in the 1870's, then by Quint CROMEENS and later by his son, Thomas F. CROMEENS. The last general store owner was Fred BENDER from about 1903 to 1933. The old store building is still standing and is used only for grain storage." Vol. 1; pg. 140 (Roscoe BRADFORD) "...Roscoe BRADFORD was the eldest of 3 sons born to David and Nancy Elizabeth on Oct 23, 1899 at Tansil, IL, and the grandson of David A. and Mary BRADFORD who migrated to Golconda from PA." <skip/edit>...."He was a trader-merchant who plied the river with what was then known as a flat boat." <skip/edit>..."They were parents of 2 sons, Thomas who lived to about 40 and never married.....David b. Sept 27, 1857, d. Dec 16, 1895.".....<skip/edit>....."He was married to Nancy Elizabeth SCOTT, daughter of John A. and Elmira SCOTT and sister to John, *Andrew* and Rudolph SCOTT. She died in 1896. Both are buried at IOOF Cemetery. To this union 3 sons were born: Roscoe, Robert, and Carl." (comment: Nancy Elizabeth SCOTT is daughter of John A. and Elmira SCOTT; and 3 brothers: Roscoe, Robert and Carl.) Marriage Record: ....Nancy E. SCOTT, age 20, Pope Co, IL; par: John A. SCOTT and Elmira J. BARNETT ....married to, David BRADFORD, age 32, Pope Co, IL; par: David A. BRADFORD and ....Mary BURK on Dec 26, 1888 by W.E.BAKER, M.G. at John A. SCOTT residence. ....Bk. A-1, pg 129, #0882 Vol. 1; pg. 409: (Horace A. WILLIAMSON - submitted by Mary Ellen YOUNG) "Louisa F. WILLIAMSON was born abt 1860 and married *Andrew* J. SCOTT, son of John SCOTT and Almira (Elmira?) BURNETTE on Oct 3, 1880. A daughter, Connie Agnes [SCOTT], was born April 14, 1886 at Tansil. Her father died on Sept. 17th (1886?). Louisa then married Martin V. SCOTT, son of Jeremiah Joseph SCOTT and Mary KING. Andrew and Martin were grandsons of Robert and Nancy SCOTT. Louisa and Martin had a daughter, Georgia, born in April 1891. Louisa died shortly after Georgia's birth and Martin married again. Connie Agnes SCOTT married Henry STEINKAMP b. 1885 on Aug 9, 1908 and had eight children." (skip/edit, list of children and marriages follows.) Marriage Record: .....(data: Andrew J. SCOTT, age 18, Pope Co, IL, par: John F? SCOTT and Almira BURNETT.... .....married to Louisa T. WILLIAMSON, age 19, Pope Co, IL, par: Horace WILLIAMSON and ....Jane GIBSON; on Oct 3, 1880 by Thomas L. ROBINSON, J.P. ar Horace Williamson residence. .....Bk. A-1, pg. 037, #0469 Hope this helps you! --carol JThrew wrote: >I am looking for any information on Coney (Connie) Steinkamp circa 1923. >Children of Coney were: John Carlos, Walter Howard, Ruth Louisa, Beatrice >May, Fred Raymond, and Selma Steinkamp. >I would like to know the relation/connection of Coney to John A. Scott, her >husband's name, birthday, marriage date, death date, where buried..... any >vitals. >John A. Scott's will has her listed as granddaughter. He died in 1923. >I am trying to verify the granddaughter connection. > >Janice Bradford Threw > > > > > -- «:::P:::» «:::E:::» «:::A:::» «:::C:::» «:::E:::» Turn your face to the sun and the shadows fall behind you. Carol Walter-Robinson, Northwest CA Pacific Coast

I am looking for any information on Coney (Connie) Steinkamp circa 1923. Children of Coney were: John Carlos, Walter Howard, Ruth Louisa, Beatrice May, Fred Raymond, and Selma Steinkamp. I would like to know the relation/connection of Coney to John A. Scott, her husband's name, birthday, marriage date, death date, where buried..... any vitals. John A. Scott's will has her listed as granddaughter. He died in 1923. I am trying to verify the granddaughter connection. Janice Bradford Threw

{PCHS, Family biographies: Vol. 1 and Index Vol.} Eliza Jane CARR, pg 114 (Index AUSTIN) married Thos. Jefferson AUSTIN, 1856; son of Harris AUSTIN and Kissiah PARMLEY...... (--"Elsberry Alexander AUSTIN", 3rd column, 1st paragraph) ~~~~~ [Henry Jefferson JENNINGS], pg 250 (Index JENNINGS, Henry/no J) ---Henry JENNINGS, age 48 (1812), b.KY residing w/ Neddy REAMS family in Sept. 1860 Census, (Rock P.O.) *This b. date-year conflicts with "Bio" of 'George Sr's brothers, Henry, b 1829' below. In this household on the 1860 Census, is also listed: "James", age 5 - surname: JENNINGS? Neddy and Margaret REAMS, also have son, James F., age 5 in same household. If your Henry married Eliza Jane Austin in 1861, she may be his 2nd wife; and son James would be with 1st wife? [Judy, have you checked 1860 Williamson and Hardin Counties?] ~~~~~~ (pg 250) - "George JENNINGS (Sr.), b. May 4, 1831 English descent, d. April 18, 1915" ---George's Sr's brothers: *Henry*, b 1829; Elijah, b 1822; James, b. 1824; Jonathan, b. 1826; and Bejamin Franklin, b. 1829. ---their parents: *Joseph JENNINGS*, b. abt 1780 VA - d. early 1850 IL; and *Elizabeth SHADOWENS*, b. 1795 TN - d. aft 1860 (age 65 then) (1860 residing w/Geo. Sr.) ---George's son, George W. (Jr.) b. 1860; married *Eliza J. ABBITT* {ABBOTT}? ---parents: Joseph and Elizabeth migrated large family by wagon, ---crossed Ohio River at Golconda, IL in 1836. ---by the year 1840, the IL census of Joseph's family mentions 2 additional boys, and 2 girls ---settled about one mile south of Glendale ---Joseph and Elizabeth also lived in Williamson and Hardin County. George W. JENNINGS (Sr) married: ..................(1)Mary Ann HARPER 1852 (she d. 1863); ..................(2)Indiana AUSTIN 1865 (widow of Andrew ELAM); ..................(3)Rosa Jane SAGE 1881 Hope this helps.... Carol ================= ................................................. UdyDee43@aol.com wrote: > > > > >Would like some help with the parents of Henry Jefferson JENNINGS & Eliza >Jane AUSTIN, who married in Pope County on 3 Jan 1861. > >Thanks, Judy > > >Judy Foreman Lee > >_UdyDee43@aol.com_ (mailto:UdyDee43@aol.com) > >My families: Benard, Bowman, Brown, Crawford, Carr, Davidson, Doctorman, >Echols, Fisher, Foreman, Glass, Hanna, Holmes, Hurford, Jackson, Jennings, >Lauderdale, Lewis, Maddox, Reams, Rumsey, Scott, Shadowen, Sipe, Slankard, Soward, >Trovillion, Tomlinson/Linson, Vinyard, Whitley, Williams, etc. > > > > > > > > -- ¸.·´ .·´¨¨)) -:¦:- Carol Walter-Robinson -:¦:- ((¸¸.·´' The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ((¸¸.·´ "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." -- Ronald Reagan

Would like some help with the parents of Henry Jefferson JENNINGS & Eliza Jane AUSTIN, who married in Pope County on 3 Jan 1861. Thanks, Judy Judy Foreman Lee _UdyDee43@aol.com_ (mailto:UdyDee43@aol.com) My families: Benard, Bowman, Brown, Crawford, Carr, Davidson, Doctorman, Echols, Fisher, Foreman, Glass, Hanna, Holmes, Hurford, Jackson, Jennings, Lauderdale, Lewis, Maddox, Reams, Rumsey, Scott, Shadowen, Sipe, Slankard, Soward, Trovillion, Tomlinson/Linson, Vinyard, Whitley, Williams, etc.

In reference to my earlier e-mail about y-DNA testing relative to the subject counties, you can look at the y-DNA website for the surnames below and see the markers for those people that lived in Southern Illinois. Even if these are not the surnames you are studying, the charts will give you and idea of how y-DNA markers distinguish family groups from one another. WARD at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ward/ Test kit #18673 on line 11 represents the markers for the male WARD line descended from Jonathan WARD that settled in the Grand Chain / Karnak / Equality / Vienna areas, 1830-1925. MORSE at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Morse%2D2/ The test kits represented in lines #2-#5, Ebenezer MORSE, represent the MORSE line that settled Columbia / Round Knob area of Massac County. Ebenezer MORSE was the grandfather of Pennington MORSE who bought land (SW1/4 SW1/4 S35 T14S R4E) there in 1842. At the time the land was part of Johnson County, but now it is part of Massac County. HAZEL at http://www.familytreedna.com/public/hazel.hazle.hazell.hasel.hasell.hasle/ Test kit #11884 & #35631 on lines 17 and 18 represent the y-DNA markers of descendents of Daniel HAZEL (born 1746). These HAZELs / HAZLEs in 1806 settled in what is now known as Pope County, Illinois. In 1806 it was still part of the Indiana Territory. Hope this helps those of you who are in the dark about y-DNA used for genealogical purposes. Debbie Ward McArdle ----- Original Message ----- From: Debbie & Jim McArdle To: ILJOHNSO-L@rootsweb.com ; ILPOPE-L@rootsweb.com ; ILPULASK-L@ROOTSWEB.COM ; ILMASSAC-L@ROOTSWEB.COM Cc: Bbfritch@aol.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 9:39 AM Subject: y-DNA JOHNSON, POPE, MASSAC, PUALASKI COUNTY, IL Questions Answered Hi! I am a Johnson, Pulaski, Massac, and Pope County researcher working on the names WARD, HAZEL, MORSE, LEDBETTER, HILL, EDWARDS, BEGGS, MC GEE, COPLAND / COPELAND, STEVENSON / STEPHENSON and MORROW in those counties. In addition, I am the y-DNA administrator or co-administrator for the following surname groups: MORSE-2, WARD, HAZEL, and CONN, so I think I can answer your questions. In addition, you can visit the FTDNA site at: http://www.familytreedna.com/description.html In simple terms y-DNA is passed only from father to son, father to son, father to son, and so on. Males in our test groups take the y-DNA test by swabbing the inside of their cheek and sending the sample back to the lab. After 6 weeks the sample's markers are released. These markers are useless when examined by themselves. The value is in comparing them to other men of the same surname who have taken the y-DNA test. Their test results would match any other male of the same surname with whom you share a common male ancestor. For example, if you have reached a dead end in your research like I have (I'm back to Jonathan WARD who married in Barren County, KY 1804, Rosie McGEE - their family later lived between Karnak and Grand Chain), I hope to find a participant whose y-DNA matches that of my WARD cousin. (Because I am female, I do not have y-DNA so I asked my WARD first cousin to represent me.) Once I find someone whose y-DNA matches my cousin's, I will compare paper! trails with him to see where our common ancestor is. I am guessing it would lead me to Virginia and/or Ireland. As group administrator or co-administrator for 4 y-DNA groups, I have seen amazing genealogical discoveries because of this new tool. Not only does y-DNA show you who IS related, it also shows you who is NOT related. Sometimes the supposed negative results can be very revealing, as they show you where NOT to look for your ancestor. For example, if I thought my Jonathan WARD was related to John Doe WARD and there were valid y-DNA participants to represent both lines and their y-DNA markers did not match, then I would know I should not waste time looking at the genealogical background of John Doe WARD. Some men will match 37 out of 37 markers, but you can still be related if you don't match at all 37 markers. Mutations occur over a period of time, some in fast-moving markers (those shown in red numbers) and some in slow moving markers. The ones in red are more likely to mutate at a faster rate, so less "weight" is placed on their match. FTDNA has charts that show the likelihood of relatedness within a given number of generations based on the number of markers that match, and if they are fast or slow moving. The administrator of any of the surname groups would be your guide, plus the folks at FTDNA are very accommodating and I have always found them to answer e-mails within 24 hours. Of course, extra-marital events and adoption through the centuries will cause a certain number of markers to not be representative of a particular surname. Somewhere on FTDNA's page they address this issue and its percent of occurrence. One way to get around this is to test as many living male representatives from a particular ancestor as possible. This worked in the MORSE-2 test. Ebenezer MORSE was born about 1746 in Virginia and had many sons. (Many of his descendents were in the Johnson / Massac County area as early as 1823.) We found decendents from as many of his sons as possible and had them tested. They all matched, meaning that those participants were proven to be: A.) on the correct paper trail. B.) decendents of Ebenezer Morse without adoption or extra-marital events involved. This is as good as actually checking the y-DNA of Ebenezer Morse by digging up his grave in order to sample his y-DNA! Further, this groups' markers match those of descendents of a 1600s Morse in New Hampshire. Now we know we need to look for a link between the Virginia and New Hampshire lines, which hopefully will lead us the the father of Ebenezer Morse, b1746. Don't want to bore you with the history of another line, but thought the illustration might help. Matching y-DNA can obviously be a useful tool as well in tracing ancestry when an extra-marital event or adoption has occurred somewhere along the line. If y-DNA matches and the individuals tested can see that their ancestors lived in the same place in the same time period, it can be a tremendous lead. Yes, FTDNA will put you in touch with anyone who has matching y-DNA. They are the largest genealogy-based DNA group. Their home page gives the number of participants as well as the surnames they represent. There is a space where you can enter the surname you are working on and it will show if a group has been started for that surname. There is the occassional person who requests that their markers not be shared. FTDNA honors those requests. However, I want to stress that this kind of testing is useless for genealogical purposes unless the markers are shared. Each participant makes that choice when they fill out the FTDNA registration that accompanies each test kit. The television shows to which you refer are not genealogy based, but rather anthropology based. I have participated in some of these studies through an LDS DNA group that passed through Chicago several years ago. FTDNA can do anthropological testing too, but for genealogical purposes, most of us are trying to go back 300 years, not 3,000 years - not yet, anyway. As time goes on, scientists will learn more about y-DNA and the samples will be able to tell us more and more. They keep the samples in the lab so they can be used for testing down the road. So, for example, you could have an elderly grandfather y-DNA tested now and his samples would be available for testing 10 years from now even if he has passed on by that time. By the way, I have no financial interest in FTDNA. I'm just a volunteer trying to help other researchers and myself make some progress on stalled lines. Please let me know if I can help further. Sincerely, Debbie Ward McArdle WARD & CONN y-DNA Group Administrator HAZEL & MORSE-2 y-DNA Co-Administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: Bbfritch@aol.com To: ILJOHNSO-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:24 AM Subject: [ILJOHNSO] DNA What does the DNA testing do for you? Do, at least some of the test sites, give you names of people you’re related to? I read about a man finding people in Europe to whom he was related. A while back I went to the genealogy DNA testing site and didn't get the answers. I saw a TV show where Natl Geo. and IBM are doing DNA testing and you can see which group of the ancient ancestors are related to you. Then there’s the mitochondrial and male aspects. Also another TV show about chimera – people having two DNA’s! I’m all confused about it. Do you know of a site that explains it all? Or maybe someone who has had it done can tell me?? I have free phone calls on weekends if it's too lengthy to type. Betty ==== ILJOHNSO Mailing List ==== Do not send Virus warnings to this list. "Problems with Johnson Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey" timcasey1@verizon.net

Hi! I am a Johnson, Pulaski, Massac, and Pope County researcher working on the names WARD, HAZEL, MORSE, LEDBETTER, HILL, EDWARDS, BEGGS, MC GEE, COPLAND / COPELAND, STEVENSON / STEPHENSON and MORROW in those counties. In addition, I am the y-DNA administrator or co-administrator for the following surname groups: MORSE-2, WARD, HAZEL, and CONN, so I think I can answer your questions. In addition, you can visit the FTDNA site at: http://www.familytreedna.com/description.html In simple terms y-DNA is passed only from father to son, father to son, father to son, and so on. Males in our test groups take the y-DNA test by swabbing the inside of their cheek and sending the sample back to the lab. After 6 weeks the sample's markers are released. These markers are useless when examined by themselves. The value is in comparing them to other men of the same surname who have taken the y-DNA test. Their test results would match any other male of the same surname with whom you share a common male ancestor. For example, if you have reached a dead end in your research like I have (I'm back to Jonathan WARD who married in Barren County, KY 1804, Rosie McGEE - their family later lived between Karnak and Grand Chain), I hope to find a participant whose y-DNA matches that of my WARD cousin. (Because I am female, I do not have y-DNA so I asked my WARD first cousin to represent me.) Once I find someone whose y-DNA matches my cousin's, I will compare paper t! rails with him to see where our common ancestor is. I am guessing it would lead me to Virginia and/or Ireland. As group administrator or co-administrator for 4 y-DNA groups, I have seen amazing genealogical discoveries because of this new tool. Not only does y-DNA show you who IS related, it also shows you who is NOT related. Sometimes the supposed negative results can be very revealing, as they show you where NOT to look for your ancestor. For example, if I thought my Jonathan WARD was related to John Doe WARD and there were valid y-DNA participants to represent both lines and their y-DNA markers did not match, then I would know I should not waste time looking at the genealogical background of John Doe WARD. Some men will match 37 out of 37 markers, but you can still be related if you don't match at all 37 markers. Mutations occur over a period of time, some in fast-moving markers (those shown in red numbers) and some in slow moving markers. The ones in red are more likely to mutate at a faster rate, so less "weight" is placed on their match. FTDNA has charts that show the likelihood of relatedness within a given number of generations based on the number of markers that match, and if they are fast or slow moving. The administrator of any of the surname groups would be your guide, plus the folks at FTDNA are very accommodating and I have always found them to answer e-mails within 24 hours. Of course, extra-marital events and adoption through the centuries will cause a certain number of markers to not be representative of a particular surname. Somewhere on FTDNA's page they address this issue and its percent of occurrence. One way to get around this is to test as many living male representatives from a particular ancestor as possible. This worked in the MORSE-2 test. Ebenezer MORSE was born about 1746 in Virginia and had many sons. (Many of his descendents were in the Johnson / Massac County area as early as 1823.) We found decendents from as many of his sons as possible and had them tested. They all matched, meaning that those participants were proven to be: A.) on the correct paper trail. B.) decendents of Ebenezer Morse without adoption or extra-marital events involved. This is as good as actually checking the y-DNA of Ebenezer Morse by digging up his grave in order to sample his y-DNA! Further, this groups' markers match those of descendents of a 1600s Morse in New Hampshire. Now we know we need to look for a link between the Virginia and New Hampshire lines, which hopefully will lead us the the father of Ebenezer Morse, b1746. Don't want to bore you with the history of another line, but thought the illustration might help. Matching y-DNA can obviously be a useful tool as well in tracing ancestry when an extra-marital event or adoption has occurred somewhere along the line. If y-DNA matches and the individuals tested can see that their ancestors lived in the same place in the same time period, it can be a tremendous lead. Yes, FTDNA will put you in touch with anyone who has matching y-DNA. They are the largest genealogy-based DNA group. Their home page gives the number of participants as well as the surnames they represent. There is a space where you can enter the surname you are working on and it will show if a group has been started for that surname. There is the occassional person who requests that their markers not be shared. FTDNA honors those requests. However, I want to stress that this kind of testing is useless for genealogical purposes unless the markers are shared. Each participant makes that choice when they fill out the FTDNA registration that accompanies each test kit. The television shows to which you refer are not genealogy based, but rather anthropology based. I have participated in some of these studies through an LDS DNA group that passed through Chicago several years ago. FTDNA can do anthropological testing too, but for genealogical purposes, most of us are trying to go back 300 years, not 3,000 years - not yet, anyway. As time goes on, scientists will learn more about y-DNA and the samples will be able to tell us more and more. They keep the samples in the lab so they can be used for testing down the road. So, for example, you could have an elderly grandfather y-DNA tested now and his samples would be available for testing 10 years from now even if he has passed on by that time. By the way, I have no financial interest in FTDNA. I'm just a volunteer trying to help other researchers and myself make some progress on stalled lines. Please let me know if I can help further. Sincerely, Debbie Ward McArdle WARD & CONN y-DNA Group Administrator HAZEL & MORSE-2 y-DNA Co-Administrator ----- Original Message ----- From: Bbfritch@aol.com To: ILJOHNSO-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:24 AM Subject: [ILJOHNSO] DNA What does the DNA testing do for you? Do, at least some of the test sites, give you names of people you’re related to? I read about a man finding people in Europe to whom he was related. A while back I went to the genealogy DNA testing site and didn't get the answers. I saw a TV show where Natl Geo. and IBM are doing DNA testing and you can see which group of the ancient ancestors are related to you. Then there’s the mitochondrial and male aspects. Also another TV show about chimera – people having two DNA’s! I’m all confused about it. Do you know of a site that explains it all? Or maybe someone who has had it done can tell me?? I have free phone calls on weekends if it's too lengthy to type. Betty ==== ILJOHNSO Mailing List ==== Do not send Virus warnings to this list. "Problems with Johnson Co IL Mail List email Tim Casey" timcasey1@verizon.net

Judy, thanks for the Warrick Co IN website. I didn't find anything on Warrick Bradley m Margaret Fritch, but it really is a good site. Betty Fritch

Robert, there is a good website for Warrick County IN Genealogy (a distant cousin of mine is the webmistress), and it has a page listing a lot of graves for the Old Friendship Church Cemetery. Go to http://us-gen.org/in/warrick/cemeteries/oldfriendshipcem.htm Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L Webb" <bwebb9@juno.com> To: <ILPOPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [ILPOPE-L] Website of the Primitive Baptist Library, Carthage, Illinois > Judy, > Since there is an unlimited amount of work for me to do on this, > I sometimes put priorities based on inquiries. So, I dug out the minutes > of Little Zion association of Indiana and went through and made a list of > names of members for several of the members. Very incomplete, but more > than I had done before. I'll send you privately some of the names for > Friendship church. My notes say it is or was located about 3 miles south > of Gentryville. Do you by any chance have a picture of the church? I > have the name of the person who was the last living member, it looks like > it may have ceased to meet in about 1990. > Robert > > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:06:42 -0800 "Judy Armstrong" <judy@armstrongs.org> > writes: >> Robert, thank you very, very much for posting this. I just found the >> names >> of several of my ancestors and the families into which their >> siblings >> married in Saline, Pope, and Williamson County IL in your database. >> I have >> always suspected that the glue that pulled them all together might >> have been >> a church, and now I know what it was. >> >> I also discovered from your website that the Friendship Church (in >> whose >> graveyards two of my ggg grandparents are buried) in Warrick County >> IL was >> also a Primitive Baptist Church. >> >> I also noticed that you do not yet have any information in your >> database >> about Scott County Missouri. Rev Thomas Malcolm Boardman, who was >> the pastor >> of the Pleasant Valley Baptist Church (also called Boardman Chapel) >> in Scott >> County MO from the decade the turn of the century till the 1920s was >> my gg >> grandfather. I would like very much to know if that church was also >> >> Primitive Baptist. I suspect it was, and I suspect my gg grandfather >> was a >> member of the Friendship Church in Warrick County IN, before he left >> there >> to take up a new ministry in MO. I have some photos of the Pleasant >> Valley >> Church in Scott County and of Rev. Boardman, my gg grandfather, and >> I would >> be happy to share with you if it turns out his church was Primitive >> Baptist. >> Please feel free to contact me at rmstrng@aol.com. >> >> Judy >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert L Webb" <bwebb9@juno.com> >> To: <ILPOPE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:06 AM >> Subject: [ILPOPE-L] Website of the Primitive Baptist Library, >> Carthage, >> Illinois >> >> >> > Dear friends, >> > For the sake of new subscribers to the forum who may not >> already be >> > aware of our work, I would like to post our website address again, >> below. >> > Our library has a large collection of church records, periodicals, >> > minutes, photos, obituaries, books, biographies, etc., from which >> we have >> > been trying to help genealogists since 1988, when we formally >> organized >> > our library. We have over 54,000 names of members mostly in the >> midwest >> > entered into a database in our computer, together with the year of >> birth >> > and death when available, and the date they joined the church when >> known, >> > etc. We are adding to this database, and to our collection, as >> much as >> > time permits us to do so with our very limited volunteer staff, >> > consisting of my wife and daughter and myself. We hope 2006 will >> be a >> > good year for you, and welcome you to write to us if we can be of >> any >> > help. >> > Our website is: >> > http://www.carthage.lib.il.us/community/churches/primbap/pbl.html >> > Elder Robert Webb >> > The Primitive Baptist Library >> > Carthage, Hancock County, Illinois >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >

Thank you Robert. Unfortunatley, I don't have any more information about this Friendship Church in Warrick County, and there might have been two of them. All I know is that two of my great-great grandparents, Franklin and Elizabeth Irvin are buried in the OLD Friendship Church Cemetery in Warrick County. They moved from Kentucky to Indiana after the Civil War. She died in the early 1870s, and he died in 1895. All of their children who stayed in Indiana are also buried in that Old Friendship Church cemetery. Franklin's mother, Agness Shepherd Irvin/Ervin, helped to found Baptist Churches in Russell County KY and Wilkes County NC, but I don't know if they might have been Primitive Baptist or not. It seems you can't always tell if a church was Primitive Baptist. In Georgia, for example, I have found that a lot of chuches listed simply as "Baptist" were in fact Primitive Baptist. Another great-grandmother's family in Georgia were Primative Baptists, but the only reason I know that is that my grandmother and great aunts told me so. Most official references to the church simply refer to it as a Baptist Church. But to return to genealogy, Franklin Irvin's son, Samuel, married the eldest daughter of Rev. Thomas Boardman, who also lived in Warrick County and who was a minister there. Samuel and his wife, Mary Elizabeth, moved to Scott County Missouri in 1889, probably at the same time as Rev. Boardman and his wife moved to Missouri, and there, in 1906, their eldest son, Herschel, married my grandmother, Anna Jane Wagoner, who was from the Williamson, Pope, and Saline County IL families (Hall, Shufflebarger, Collier, and Waggoner) whose names appear on your Primitive Baptist Church lists. Thank you again. These are good pieces of the family puzzles. Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L Webb" <bwebb9@juno.com> To: <ILPOPE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 1:47 PM Subject: Re: [ILPOPE-L] Website of the Primitive Baptist Library, Carthage, Illinois > Judy, > Since there is an unlimited amount of work for me to do on this, > I sometimes put priorities based on inquiries. So, I dug out the minutes > of Little Zion association of Indiana and went through and made a list of > names of members for several of the members. Very incomplete, but more > than I had done before. I'll send you privately some of the names for > Friendship church. My notes say it is or was located about 3 miles south > of Gentryville. Do you by any chance have a picture of the church? I > have the name of the person who was the last living member, it looks like > it may have ceased to meet in about 1990. > Robert > > > On Thu, 5 Jan 2006 12:06:42 -0800 "Judy Armstrong" <judy@armstrongs.org> > writes: >> Robert, thank you very, very much for posting this. I just found the >> names >> of several of my ancestors and the families into which their >> siblings >> married in Saline, Pope, and Williamson County IL in your database. >> I have >> always suspected that the glue that pulled them all together might >> have been >> a church, and now I know what it was. >> >> I also discovered from your website that the Friendship Church (in >> whose >> graveyards two of my ggg grandparents are buried) in Warrick County >> IL was >> also a Primitive Baptist Church. >> >> I also noticed that you do not yet have any information in your >> database >> about Scott County Missouri. Rev Thomas Malcolm Boardman, who was >> the pastor >> of the Pleasant Valley Baptist Church (also called Boardman Chapel) >> in Scott >> County MO from the decade the turn of the century till the 1920s was >> my gg >> grandfather. I would like very much to know if that church was also >> >> Primitive Baptist. I suspect it was, and I suspect my gg grandfather >> was a >> member of the Friendship Church in Warrick County IN, before he left >> there >> to take up a new ministry in MO. I have some photos of the Pleasant >> Valley >> Church in Scott County and of Rev. Boardman, my gg grandfather, and >> I would >> be happy to share with you if it turns out his church was Primitive >> Baptist. >> Please feel free to contact me at rmstrng@aol.com. >> >> Judy >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert L Webb" <bwebb9@juno.com> >> To: <ILPOPE-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 8:06 AM >> Subject: [ILPOPE-L] Website of the Primitive Baptist Library, >> Carthage, >> Illinois >> >> >> > Dear friends, >> > For the sake of new subscribers to the forum who may not >> already be >> > aware of our work, I would like to post our website address again, >> below. >> > Our library has a large collection of church records, periodicals, >> > minutes, photos, obituaries, books, biographies, etc., from which >> we have >> > been trying to help genealogists since 1988, when we formally >> organized >> > our library. We have over 54,000 names of members mostly in the >> midwest >> > entered into a database in our computer, together with the year of >> birth >> > and death when available, and the date they joined the church when >> known, >> > etc. We are adding to this database, and to our collection, as >> much as >> > time permits us to do so with our very limited volunteer staff, >> > consisting of my wife and daughter and myself. We hope 2006 will >> be a >> > good year for you, and welcome you to write to us if we can be of >> any >> > help. >> > Our website is: >> > http://www.carthage.lib.il.us/community/churches/primbap/pbl.html >> > Elder Robert Webb >> > The Primitive Baptist Library >> > Carthage, Hancock County, Illinois >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> > >