Louis Schiele found in:Passenger and Immigration Index, 1500s-1900s Place: Illinois Year: 1853 Primary immigrant: Schiele, Louis Permanent entry number: 1537433 Source publication code: 8368 Source publication page number: 125 Source publication: SHELLEY, JANE, and ELSIE M. WASSER, compilers. Naturalization and Intentions of Madison County, Illinois: An Index 1816-1900. Edwardsville, Ill.: the compilers, 1983. 163p. Source annotation: Entries located in the Introduction are indicated in this index by the code I. Try here: She lists info below publicly on a website. Elsie M. Wasser 7430 Leslie Dr. Edwardsville, IL 62025-7736 (618) 656-2299 Maryjane - Volunteer for Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness www.raogk.org

If anyone has the Naturalization and Intentions list of Madison County, could they please look up Louis Schiele. I have found he is listed there for 1853. I am wondering what other information is contained in this record. All is says on Ancestry is the year 1853 and Illinois. Any help is much appreciated. Marie Coury ma3rie@vcn.bc.ca

Is there anyone out there that can do a look up for me in the divorce records for Madison County. It would be between 1929-1933. The names are: Walter Thurman and Myrl Waterman. Thanks, Sharon

They dont belong to me but it was interesting reading. Thanks for that. Diane McPherson >On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 08:04:34 -0400 (EDT) BKEngrPCH@aol.com wrote. >Thanks Colleen and Dewey. > >(I do not have a Harry or Herman DAVIS in my records). > >Washington MILLER (in Alton) was a merchant in 1850, and real estate agent in >1860, and a banker in 1870. He was a commissioner in fruits and veg in 1880 >(in Chicago). He married his first wife (Julia SMITH) in 1837. I assume she >died...he married her sister (Ruth) in Madison County in 1846. > >Samuel Boyd DAVIS (husband of Washington's daughter) was born in 1833 >Zanesville, Ohio. His mother (DUTRO...family was grocers in Alton & Chicago) died in >1849. Samuel crossed the country first in 1849 and crossed it 49 more times. > When he was very young, he ran a remount station somewhere in the west by >buying worn out horses from pioneers, feeding them, and reselling as fresh >horses. I'm not sure of his occupation in Alton from 1858-1870. After that, in >Chicago, his business was wholesale butter and eggs. Family notes indicate that >he, his son Samuel, and grandson, Lawrence, had been in business for over a >hundred years at the same location. I have a receipt dated July 19, 1878 >titled "Late of Davis Brothers, Ham Curers and Pork Packers...bought of Samuel B >Davis & Co. commission merchants for the purchase and sale of provisions, >cheese, grain, seeds, foreign & domestic fruits, beans and produce of all kinds, 110 >South Water Street". > >His son, Samuel Edward DAVIS was in the Creamery business and was a manager >for the Chicago Merchantile Exchange. It appears he lived in Alton, Madison >for only his first few years, then Chicago, then Elgin, then Chicago, then >Highland Park. I'm not surprised to find out that Highland Park was an upper-end >suburb. I have the will from his first wife, Grace RYERSON, and see that the >DAVIS family was millionaires (by current values). I don't know if DAVIS made >money from his business or if it came from Grace (the RYERSON family is a >prominent family in lumber, steel, publishing, etc.). My grandmother was born in >1907 in Elgin. She introduced her second grade teacher to her father after >her mother died. They married, and she became a "wicked stepmother". My >grandmother was sent off to boarding school (and the older siblings only saw the new >wife a couple times).....I don't know where all the money went, 'cause it >sure didn't carry through the generations....oh well. > >Pete > > >==== ILMADISO Mailing List ==== >Visit the Madison County ILGenWeb home page! >http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmadiso/index.htm >

Thanks Colleen and Dewey. (I do not have a Harry or Herman DAVIS in my records). Washington MILLER (in Alton) was a merchant in 1850, and real estate agent in 1860, and a banker in 1870. He was a commissioner in fruits and veg in 1880 (in Chicago). He married his first wife (Julia SMITH) in 1837. I assume she died...he married her sister (Ruth) in Madison County in 1846. Samuel Boyd DAVIS (husband of Washington's daughter) was born in 1833 Zanesville, Ohio. His mother (DUTRO...family was grocers in Alton & Chicago) died in 1849. Samuel crossed the country first in 1849 and crossed it 49 more times. When he was very young, he ran a remount station somewhere in the west by buying worn out horses from pioneers, feeding them, and reselling as fresh horses. I'm not sure of his occupation in Alton from 1858-1870. After that, in Chicago, his business was wholesale butter and eggs. Family notes indicate that he, his son Samuel, and grandson, Lawrence, had been in business for over a hundred years at the same location. I have a receipt dated July 19, 1878 titled "Late of Davis Brothers, Ham Curers and Pork Packers...bought of Samuel B Davis & Co. commission merchants for the purchase and sale of provisions, cheese, grain, seeds, foreign & domestic fruits, beans and produce of all kinds, 110 South Water Street". His son, Samuel Edward DAVIS was in the Creamery business and was a manager for the Chicago Merchantile Exchange. It appears he lived in Alton, Madison for only his first few years, then Chicago, then Elgin, then Chicago, then Highland Park. I'm not surprised to find out that Highland Park was an upper-end suburb. I have the will from his first wife, Grace RYERSON, and see that the DAVIS family was millionaires (by current values). I don't know if DAVIS made money from his business or if it came from Grace (the RYERSON family is a prominent family in lumber, steel, publishing, etc.). My grandmother was born in 1907 in Elgin. She introduced her second grade teacher to her father after her mother died. They married, and she became a "wicked stepmother". My grandmother was sent off to boarding school (and the older siblings only saw the new wife a couple times).....I don't know where all the money went, 'cause it sure didn't carry through the generations....oh well. Pete

Carrie, Thank you very, very much! I appreciate the information! Sharon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carrie" <hetaerae@swbell.net> To: <ILMADISO-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [ILMADISO-L] Thurman > I found the following in the 1930 Census, taken in April: > Alton, Madison County, IL - Myrl Thurman, daughter, age 24, married, first > married at age 23, living in her parent's household - Marion and Addie > Waterman. Occupation is a waitress at a hotel. Also in the household are > stepson Fred Pfaff (36), E[something - can't read] (24) > stepdaughter-in-law, Murial Marie (4-3/12) granddaughter, and Olen Daniel > (6/12) grandson. > > Alton, Madison County, IL - Walter Thurmun (note difference in spelling), > son, age 22, single, living in his mother's house - Grace > Thurmun. Occupation is a clerk in a garage. Also in the household are > Grace's son-in-law, William Lawson (26), daughter Georgeen (25), grandson > Billie Joe (1-10/12) and mother Mary Blair (77) > > SSDI shows: > Name: Walter M. Thurman > SSN: 327-07-1263 > Last Residence: 62002 Alton, Madison, Illinois, United States of America > Born: 18 Nov 1907 > Died: 30 Aug 1990 > State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (Before 1951 ) > > In the 1994 Phone and Address Directory on Ancestry.com: > Name: WALTER M THURMAN > Address: 3304 MISSION RD , > City: ALTON > State: IL > Zipcode: 62002 > Phone: (618) 462-9927 > > > > >I am searching for any information on Walter M. Thurman. He was born > >11-18-1907 in Elgin, IL and died 8-30-1990 in Alton, IL. He married my > >Grandmother, Mryl Waterman on 8-27-1929. I had no idea she was married to > >him. There were no children, but I would like some more information on him. > >Thanks, > >Sharon > > > > Carrie > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > ...Then they filled, with clear, shallow water, > the whole breadth of this broad canal, and set > little whirlpools turning in the depths, > and for the first time mirrored the green banks > and distant calls of birds -- while in the sky > the starry nights of another, sweeter country > blossomed above them and would never close. > Tombs of the Hetaerae, by Rainier Maria Rilke > Translation by Stephen Mitchell > > > ==== ILMADISO Mailing List ==== > Search Madison County maillist archives; enter the word ilmadiso here: > http://listsearches.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/listsearch.pl?list=ILMADISO > Find the names of other maillists to search: http://lists.rootsweb.com/ > >

I found the following in the 1930 Census, taken in April: Alton, Madison County, IL - Myrl Thurman, daughter, age 24, married, first married at age 23, living in her parent's household - Marion and Addie Waterman. Occupation is a waitress at a hotel. Also in the household are stepson Fred Pfaff (36), E[something - can't read] (24) stepdaughter-in-law, Murial Marie (4-3/12) granddaughter, and Olen Daniel (6/12) grandson. Alton, Madison County, IL - Walter Thurmun (note difference in spelling), son, age 22, single, living in his mother's house - Grace Thurmun. Occupation is a clerk in a garage. Also in the household are Grace's son-in-law, William Lawson (26), daughter Georgeen (25), grandson Billie Joe (1-10/12) and mother Mary Blair (77) SSDI shows: Name: Walter M. Thurman SSN: 327-07-1263 Last Residence: 62002 Alton, Madison, Illinois, United States of America Born: 18 Nov 1907 Died: 30 Aug 1990 State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (Before 1951 ) In the 1994 Phone and Address Directory on Ancestry.com: Name: WALTER M THURMAN Address: 3304 MISSION RD , City: ALTON State: IL Zipcode: 62002 Phone: (618) 462-9927 At 03:28 PM 7/13/2004 -0500, you wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C468EE.11146170 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="Windows-1252" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >I am searching for any information on Walter M. Thurman. He was born >11-18-1907 in Elgin, IL and died 8-30-1990 in Alton, IL. He married my >Grandmother, Mryl Waterman on 8-27-1929. I had no idea she was married to >him. There were no children, but I would like some more information on him. >Thanks, >Sharon > >------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C468EE.11146170 >Content-Type: text/x-vcard; > name="Sharon Inman.vcf" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Content-Disposition: attachment; > filename="Sharon Inman.vcf" > >BEGIN:VCARD >VERSION:2.1 >N:Inman;Sharon >FN:Sharon Inman >ORG:140 Furniture >TITLE:Owner >TEL;WORK;VOICE:618-259-3711 >TEL;WORK;FAX:618-258-6194 >ADR;WORK:;;40 W. MacArthur;Cottage Hills;IL;62018;USA >LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:40 W. MacArthur=3D0D=3D0ACottage = >Hills, IL 62018=3D0D=3D0AUSA >URL;HOME:http://www.140furniture.com >URL;WORK:http://www.140furniture.com >EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:140furniture@charter.net >REV:20040713T202837Z >END:VCARD > >------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C468EE.11146170-- > > > >==== ILMADISO Mailing List ==== >To post a message so everyone on ILMADISO-L or ILMADISO-D receives it, >send the message to: >ILMADISO-L@rootsweb.com >It will then be sent on to everyone in both ILMADISO-L or ILMADISO-D. Carrie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ...Then they filled, with clear, shallow water, the whole breadth of this broad canal, and set little whirlpools turning in the depths, and for the first time mirrored the green banks and distant calls of birds -- while in the sky the starry nights of another, sweeter country blossomed above them and would never close. Tombs of the Hetaerae, by Rainier Maria Rilke Translation by Stephen Mitchell

I have never met Carrie, but let me tell you something. She sure has her stuff together. Rev. Dewey Everts Genealogy site below: You can choose friends; you are stuck with relatives. http://community-2.webtv.net/Evertshistory/EVERTSCRITESafamily http://community.webtv.net/Deweyphotos/EVERTSCRITESFAMILY

Yes, Elgin, Kane County is near Chicago. My ancestors also lived in Alton, then St. Louis, then Chicago but in their case it was factory work. Brach Candies that's where my great grandmother Grace Mae Wayman Nixon worked. She was born and raised in Alton, IL where her father William Henry Harrison Wayman was a carpenter and her mother Lizzie Lee Jeans Wayman was the first woman wallpaper hanger in Alton. Cousin Myrtle Jeans was the 1st woman dentist in Alton. Elgin, Illinois had the Elgin Watch factory, infact I believe some of the old buildings are still there. The surname Davis, do you have chance a Harry Davis or a Herman Davis in your records? My girlfriend is working on her familytree and that's her mother's maiden name, they were from Chicago. Highland Park is considered North Shore Suburb of Chicago and a expensive suburb at that and it's near Lake Michigan but Elgin that's near the border of Kane County and Cook County. Elgin is considered a west suburb. Elgin is 38 miles from downtown Chicago and Highland Park is 26 miles. Highland Park is one the wealthy North Shore Suburbs. Colleen >From: BKEngrPCH@aol.com >Reply-To: ILMADISO-L@rootsweb.com >To: ILMADISO-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [ILMADISO-L] Alton & Elgin >Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 16:50:53 EDT > >Looking for a little history or geography lesson. >I noticed the THURMAN posting had these two towns listed, and it is similar >to mine. > >Washington MILLER and Julia SMITH were married in 1837 St. Louis, Missouri. >They lived in Alton, Madison, Illinois. I realize that Alton is about 25 >miles from St. Louis, so this seems reasonable. They remained in Alton >until >around 1880, then moved to Chicago. > >Their daughter, Julia Ann MILLER married Samuel Boyd DAVIS in Alton in >1858. >They remained there until around 1870, then moved to Chicago. > >Their son, Samuel Edward DAVIS was born in Alton in 1864. He married Grace >RYERSON in 1887 Chicago....where they lived until around 1905. They lived >in >Elgin from 1905-1915 (my gradmother was born there in 1907), then moved >back to >Chicago. He died in Highland Park, Lake County, Illinois in 1928. > >This family (DAVIS, MILLER, and the connecting DUTRO) were all in the >merchantile/grocery/produce/creamery business. Was it common for the >migration north >from Alton to Chicago to occur because of that occupation/railroad/etc? >Elgin, Kane Co., Illinois is near Chicago, correct? > >Thanks in advance for help.... >and hopefully someone has connections to these families. > >Pete Hanson >Cromwell, CT > > >==== ILMADISO Mailing List ==== >Cyndi's List of Genealogy Links-Lots of helpful links for your research. >http://www.cyndislist.com/ >

Looking for a little history or geography lesson. I noticed the THURMAN posting had these two towns listed, and it is similar to mine. Washington MILLER and Julia SMITH were married in 1837 St. Louis, Missouri. They lived in Alton, Madison, Illinois. I realize that Alton is about 25 miles from St. Louis, so this seems reasonable. They remained in Alton until around 1880, then moved to Chicago. Their daughter, Julia Ann MILLER married Samuel Boyd DAVIS in Alton in 1858. They remained there until around 1870, then moved to Chicago. Their son, Samuel Edward DAVIS was born in Alton in 1864. He married Grace RYERSON in 1887 Chicago....where they lived until around 1905. They lived in Elgin from 1905-1915 (my gradmother was born there in 1907), then moved back to Chicago. He died in Highland Park, Lake County, Illinois in 1928. This family (DAVIS, MILLER, and the connecting DUTRO) were all in the merchantile/grocery/produce/creamery business. Was it common for the migration north from Alton to Chicago to occur because of that occupation/railroad/etc? Elgin, Kane Co., Illinois is near Chicago, correct? Thanks in advance for help.... and hopefully someone has connections to these families. Pete Hanson Cromwell, CT

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C468EE.11146170 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am searching for any information on Walter M. Thurman. He was born 11-18-1907 in Elgin, IL and died 8-30-1990 in Alton, IL. He married my Grandmother, Mryl Waterman on 8-27-1929. I had no idea she was married to him. There were no children, but I would like some more information on him. Thanks, Sharon ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C468EE.11146170 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; name="Sharon Inman.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Sharon Inman.vcf" BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Inman;Sharon FN:Sharon Inman ORG:140 Furniture TITLE:Owner TEL;WORK;VOICE:618-259-3711 TEL;WORK;FAX:618-258-6194 ADR;WORK:;;40 W. MacArthur;Cottage Hills;IL;62018;USA LABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:40 W. MacArthur=3D0D=3D0ACottage = Hills, IL 62018=3D0D=3D0AUSA URL;HOME:http://www.140furniture.com URL;WORK:http://www.140furniture.com EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:140furniture@charter.net REV:20040713T202837Z END:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C468EE.11146170--

Hello, It seems that everyone sailing from Germany and other parts of Europe went to New Orleans and then took a paddle wheeler up to Alton, (all of the Everts did) where they disembarked. Until the War started. Then in the 1860's it was New York or Philadelphia. Or so I understand. I wasn't around then. I am 75 and THAT is old enough. In reference to Highland Park, it was a high-fallutin place in 1948 when I was at Fort Sheridan (soldiers and dogs keep off the grass; at least soldiers got top billing) which was next to Highwood and people from Highland Park would insist that THERE WAS NO SUCH PLACE AS HIGHWOOD. Rev. Dewey Leon Everts Jr. Santa Barbara CA 93101

Can someone tell me how to go about getting guardianship papers. I know from the Deed Index that there was a guardian appointed when my Great Great Grandfather (Louis Schiele) died, sometime between 1868 and 1870. Is it possible to find the guardianship papers without the exact date of death? Any help appreciated. I have checked for a Probate file but it is not on the Archives list, so I assume there was not a Probate though he did own quite a lot of property in St. Jacobs. Marie Coury

Here is another paper you may or may not have Guardianship Papers for Green children  (Transcribed by Kelly (Green) Hartley.)   Guardianship Papers for Fields, Mary & Edward Copies supplied by Susan Milford from microfilm of the Madison County Court   [page 209] Fields Green & others, Minors May 11, 1859 And now at this day George R Stocker presents an Instrument in writing under the hands of Fields Green, Mary Green & Edward Green minor heirs of William Green their late Father – making choice of said Stocker for their Guardian. Ordered that said instrument be placed on file. Ordered that Said George R Stocker be appointed Guardian of said minors upon his giving Bond with security according to law.  Ordered further that the penal sum in said Bond be one thousand Dollars.  When upon said Stocker presents his Bond in the above penal sum with S J Cooper & Charles Hayes as security thereon.  Ordered that Said Bond be approved – ordered further that said Bond be filed & made of record.  Ordered that Letters of Guardianship now issue in accordance with the above.  Ordered that Said Letters be made of record.  Ordered that Court adjourn.   [page 329] Fields Green On the 4th December George R Stocker Guardian presented Receipt of Fields Green of whom he is Guardian and who is now 21 years of age. Which receipt is in words & figures following viz “An Settlement this day with George R Stocker my guardian of all matters touching his guardianship there was two hundred and five dollars due me and I therefore having received the above sum from the said George R Stocker as such Guardian he making full payment to me I therefore close him from said Guardianship and from all claims or demands.  Upper Alton 1860.  Fields his x mark Green seal Witness John Willis, E Rodgers MD. filed by the clerk   Mary Green - now Greenwalt - minor Said Stocker also presents the Receipt of Mary Green now Greenwalt, another of his wards as follows “An settlement [sic] this day with G R Stocker my guardian of all matters touching his Guardianship there was Two hundred and Twenty dollars due me and I therefore having received the above amount from the said G R Stocker as such Guardian he making full payment to me I therefore release him from said Guardianship and from all claims or demands.  Upper Alton Aug 13th 1860. Mary Greenwalt {seal} William Greenwalt {seal} Wintess John Willis. Filed by clerk    

Do you know what religion he was? There are several church cemeteries. Since he was probably not buried at the Alton cemetery which is less than 5 miles away, he might have been buried in a Church cemetery.

Thanks. Yes I have most of this but it clears up one or two things in regard to who John and Charity belongs to. We have probate records on Nicholas, but are most interested in trying to find out where he was buried because we blieve if we find him we will find his father, mother and brother William since they died so close to each other. All we have is that the Widow Waston supplied the grave for $1.00 and that it was 10-11 miles from Alexander's home on Wood River. Wood River is a big place and this could be in any direction. Thanks again.

Found this. You may already have it. Nicholas Green’s Probate Papers Copies provided by Joanna Wood     Nicholas Green dec'd Admin Acct 16/449 Filed April 4, 1859   Order to disbursement.......(?): Lewis Green Wm Green's heirs John & Charity Philip Green Elijah W Green Alexr Green John W Green Fields Green Mary Green Edward Green 9/35.61 for each 3.93 Recorded page 224   Amemmandum of articles furnished & services rendered in taking care of Feilds [sic] & Mary [“and Edward” marked out] Green during their Sickness. June. 1858. June 22 1858 Feilds (sic) To Six weeks nursing watching cumbrance house dl(?)        $25.00 To 4 days time going for the doctor & to report get medicine-                    3.00 .............[part of line cut off, looks like G B Stocker is mentioned]  per bill 3.85   Estate of Nicholas Green descd Oath & affs Filed July 7, 1858 JA Prickett clk   State of Illinois} Madison County,} ss. Affidavit for Administrator   I do solemnly swear that I will well and truly Administer all and singular the goods and chattels, rights, credits, and effects of Nicholas Green deceased--And pay all just claims and charges against his estate, so far as his goods, chattels and effects shall extend, and the law charge me--And that I will do and perform all other acts required of me by law, to the best of my knowledge and abilities.   Subscribed and sworn to before me this 7th day of July A.D. 1858} //s//JA Prickett Clerk.   //s// Alexander M x Green his mark   State of Illinois} Madison County} SS.  Affidavit of Decease.   Alexander M Green being duly sworn, deposeth and saith--That Nicholas Green late of the county of Madison and State aforesaid, departed this life on or about the 17th day of June A.D. 1858 And that he died intestate, to the best of his knowledge and belief.

Karen would you give me a time frame for John Graham the butcher or any details that you have. I like difficult mysteries to look at when I am at dead ends and need a break to go look somewhere else...jth

Karen I did get my invitation for the reunion. I don't know if I will be able to go. I have reservations for that weekend and don't think I can cancel out. I haven't made any of the reunions and was planning on this one. I used to order the reunion book but never received one but this year, I will order it direct from the company so I should get one. I got Roy Logans e-mail and went there to check out who was coming but it's too early. There are only a few names. I know you are looking for Rosetta Behrends and I know she lives in Glen Carbon because her husband died earlier this year. She is unlisted and I couldn't find her address so I called the funeral home. They couldn't give me her address but said I should send them my card and they would forward it to her. I asked her to call me, but I haven't heard any more from her. Good luck on your research of your family. I still want to go to the library and look in the old city directories for more information. There is always something new to research. I think I am moving to Arizona this year and than I will wish I had done more research about the family while I was here. I always put off asking mom a lot of questions that I had. I was going to work on her family on vacation in October and she died that same September so I know you just can't put things off like I so often do. Hope to talk to you again and maybe see you at the reunion. Arlene

Hi Arlene, Thank you so much for contacting me. Actually, we are trying to notify everyone who graduated in 1959 that we are having a reunion Sept 10 and 11. Did you receive a notice in the mail? If not, please let me know your mailing address so that we can send you the information. Also, Roy Logan sent an e-mail to everyone who is registered on Classmates.com. Did you receive the e-mail notice? I'd love to see you at the reunion. Do you think that you can make it? As for genealogy, I just keep finding more fantastic information for Marvin's family, but NOTHING on my family. I'm still trying to find the parents of my great grandfather, John Graham. He was a butcher in south St. Louis. Karen -----Original Message----- From: ArleneMB1@aol.com [mailto:ArleneMB1@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 7:08 AM To: ILMADISO-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMADISO-L] GCHS 1959 Hi Karen I am very interested in genealogy. Have a lot of information on my fathers fathers side. Not much on his mothers side. Not quite as far back on my mothers side from her father but many years on her mothers side. Arlene Koenig Boner ==== ILMADISO Mailing List ==== Search USGenWeb including the archives, census' which are done, etc.: http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ussearch.htm