Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary is the one who wrote it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, > note that obituaries are copyrighted.  The copyright > belongs to the newspaper owner.  Thus no obit should appear > online without the owner's permission and that > permission must be noted.  Otherwise you are infringing > upon the copyright.  Copyright for obits follow the book > publication years - 75 years after published. > > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to > do an abstract.  I use this type when I'm at a library > where photocopy services are not available with the > microfilm reader.  I simply use a form I created (and can > be used by anyone) with the following info - > > Name of Deceased > Name of Newspaper > Date of Newspaper > Birth Date > Birth Place > Parents > Spouse > Marriage Date > Marriage Place > Death Date > Death Place > Age at time of Death > Children and if given Address > Grandchildren (number unless named) > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address > Burial Date > Burial Place > Funeral Home > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations > > > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the > copyright law.  (I worked with copyright for numerous years > as part of my job and would question those more > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) > > > Debbi > > > > > > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Please, good people, do not walk on copyrights. Obits are copyrighted. So, if you plan to use obits post 75yrs as your own in a public forum, ask for written permission which I do not get when I ask. You question a person's right to who wrote it? And, the form you use to excerpt is fine if you do not take ALL the obits of that paper. If you use this (my) msg in a book or public forum and I did not want you to do that, I will win in court. THIS MSG IS COPYRIGHTED. Well, dummies say there is no copyright note on it. I don't have to put a copyright note on this msg. IT IS COPYRIGHTED. Get real. Why would you want to hurt our publishers by walking on them? No, little publishers do not have the money to sue you so why not walk on them? Excerpt one or two is fine. Excerpt ALL is not fine. Honesty. Be true to thy self. Off my soapbox and back to my corner. Gloria At 05:20 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: >Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print >a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold >the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the >creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often >than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original >obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they >must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim >copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that >a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another >party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict >others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is >a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a >page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the >obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and > family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of > the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very > clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who > has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary > is the one who wrote it. > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has >seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David >Eisenhower > > >--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM > > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, > > note that obituaries are copyrighted. The copyright > > belongs to the newspaper owner. Thus no obit should appear > > online without the owner's permission and that > > permission must be noted. Otherwise you are infringing > > upon the copyright. Copyright for obits follow the book > > publication years - 75 years after published. > > > > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to > > do an abstract. I use this type when I'm at a library > > where photocopy services are not available with the > > microfilm reader. I simply use a form I created (and can > > be used by anyone) with the following info - > > > > Name of Deceased > > Name of Newspaper > > Date of Newspaper > > Birth Date > > Birth Place > > Parents > > Spouse > > Marriage Date > > Marriage Place > > Death Date > > Death Place > > Age at time of Death > > Children and if given Address > > Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address > > Burial Date > > Burial Place > > Funeral Home > > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations > > > > > > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is > > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the > > copyright law. (I worked with copyright for numerous years > > as part of my job and would question those more > > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) > > > > > > Debbi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

THANK YOU, Gloria! Let us not forget that in the New World of the Internet, the WORD, "publish" derives from the Latin publis and by virtue of its meaning means it is OUT THERE! (Don't get upset about my spelling of Latin, it is many years since I had my required 4 years, and this may be the first time I've used it!) Just take it for what it is. It's a fine service donated by some very thoughtful people. If you want to go UN-public, just don't contribute to it. If you want to be recognized, probably don't contribute it then, either. And than of course, don't be a hypocrite and don't use the site............... Gracious Me! Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "G Frazier" <macoupincounty@earthlink.net> To: <cheekfamok@yahoo.com>; <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > Please, good people, do not walk on copyrights. > > Obits are copyrighted. So, if you plan to use obits post 75yrs as your own > in a public forum, ask for written permission which I do not get when I > ask. You question a person's right to who wrote it? > > And, the form you use to excerpt is fine if you do not take ALL the obits > of that paper. > > If you use this (my) msg in a book or public forum and I did not want you > to do that, I will win in court. THIS MSG IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Well, dummies say there is no copyright note on it. I don't have to put a > copyright note on this msg. IT IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Get real. Why would you want to hurt our publishers by walking on them? > > No, little publishers do not have the money to sue you so why not walk on > them? > > Excerpt one or two is fine. Excerpt ALL is not fine. > > Honesty. Be true to thy self. > > Off my soapbox and back to my corner. > > Gloria > > At 05:20 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > >>Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print >>a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold >>the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the >>creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often >>than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original >>obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they >>must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim >>copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that >>a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another >>party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict >>others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is >>a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a >>page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the >>obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and >> family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of >> the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very >> clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who >> has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary >> is the one who wrote it. >> >><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has >>seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David >>Eisenhower >> >> >>--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> >> > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright >> > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM >> > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, >> > note that obituaries are copyrighted. The copyright >> > belongs to the newspaper owner. Thus no obit should appear >> > online without the owner's permission and that >> > permission must be noted. Otherwise you are infringing >> > upon the copyright. Copyright for obits follow the book >> > publication years - 75 years after published. >> > >> > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to >> > do an abstract. I use this type when I'm at a library >> > where photocopy services are not available with the >> > microfilm reader. I simply use a form I created (and can >> > be used by anyone) with the following info - >> > >> > Name of Deceased >> > Name of Newspaper >> > Date of Newspaper >> > Birth Date >> > Birth Place >> > Parents >> > Spouse >> > Marriage Date >> > Marriage Place >> > Death Date >> > Death Place >> > Age at time of Death >> > Children and if given Address >> > Grandchildren (number unless named) >> > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >> > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >> > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address >> > Burial Date >> > Burial Place >> > Funeral Home >> > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations >> > >> > >> > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is >> > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the >> > copyright law. (I worked with copyright for numerous years >> > as part of my job and would question those more >> > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) >> > >> > >> > Debbi >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >> > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> > the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >>Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >>http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am with the person who replied earlier - not trying to offend but..................can we move on? G Frazier wrote: > Please, good people, do not walk on copyrights. > > Obits are copyrighted. So, if you plan to use obits post 75yrs as your own > in a public forum, ask for written permission which I do not get when I > ask. You question a person's right to who wrote it? > > And, the form you use to excerpt is fine if you do not take ALL the obits > of that paper. > > If you use this (my) msg in a book or public forum and I did not want you > to do that, I will win in court. THIS MSG IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Well, dummies say there is no copyright note on it. I don't have to put a > copyright note on this msg. IT IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Get real. Why would you want to hurt our publishers by walking on them? > > No, little publishers do not have the money to sue you so why not walk on them? > > Excerpt one or two is fine. Excerpt ALL is not fine. > > Honesty. Be true to thy self. > > Off my soapbox and back to my corner. > > Gloria > > At 05:20 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > > >> Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print >> a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold >> the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the >> creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often >> than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original >> obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they >> must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim >> copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that >> a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another >> party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict >> others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is >> a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a >> page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the >> obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and >> family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of >> the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very >> clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who >> has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary >> is the one who wrote it. >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has >> seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David >> Eisenhower >> >> >> --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>> From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> >>> Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright >>> To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM >>> While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, >>> note that obituaries are copyrighted. The copyright >>> belongs to the newspaper owner. Thus no obit should appear >>> online without the owner's permission and that >>> permission must be noted. Otherwise you are infringing >>> upon the copyright. Copyright for obits follow the book >>> publication years - 75 years after published. >>> >>> The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to >>> do an abstract. I use this type when I'm at a library >>> where photocopy services are not available with the >>> microfilm reader. I simply use a form I created (and can >>> be used by anyone) with the following info - >>> >>> Name of Deceased >>> Name of Newspaper >>> Date of Newspaper >>> Birth Date >>> Birth Place >>> Parents >>> Spouse >>> Marriage Date >>> Marriage Place >>> Death Date >>> Death Place >>> Age at time of Death >>> Children and if given Address >>> Grandchildren (number unless named) >>> Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >>> Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >>> Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address >>> Burial Date >>> Burial Place >>> Funeral Home >>> Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations >>> >>> >>> This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is >>> not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the >>> copyright law. (I worked with copyright for numerous years >>> as part of my job and would question those more >>> knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) >>> >>> >>> Debbi >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >>> http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >> http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >