At 06:11 AM 10/16/99 -0500, you wrote: > Good morning, Gloria, Your Web Page is beautiful! A bit of >luck for me as I am searching both Rock Island and Maucoupin >Counties. Do you know why I can not get a copy of the original >They give only the Clerk's notes from the original. I would think >the Freedom of Information Act is being Do you have a legal >opinion? Thank you, Corinne Gernaey taramark@netins.net I will give you my thoughts on naturalization records. First, I don't think courthouses were required to keep originals BUT if they didn't give the original papers to the person they were supposed to send back to the Federal agency because naturalization is a Federal law/requirement. Another thing is where the person was naturalized (will get to that further on down.) Courthouses can't keep everything. There is no room. At the same time, they are "greedy" with the records and want to keep them in the county and in today's world they could be turned over in IL to IRAD. Macoupin is one. The dome of the beautiful old courthouse is full of deteriorating records with no environmental control. And I have seen naturalization ledgers around 1910 listing spouse and children in the dome of Macoupin's courthouse. Most courthouses aren't as big as Macoupin's, it being a million dollar courthouse in the 1860's. So the smaller courthouses have burned, buried, given to libraries in the county old records or if they still have them they are in an unsafe place for the county to let you enter. About a year or so ago, one researcher in one IL courthouse found original naturalization papers still in leather "wraps" laying on the floor in a musty and mildewed room. Remember the ones I said which were suppose to be returned to the Federal agency..... One aging lady in one IL county who has helped many many researchers had at the last I heard a whole house full of old court records she is worrying about what will happen to them when she dies. I don't know about Rock Island but in Macoupin they do have ledger entries, as you mentioned, AVAILABLE of the naturalization and you can get copies. Where were was the declaration of intent? Where was the sponsorship? Where was the naturalization and where was the nearest Federal courthouse? In the 1800's early to mid, a person COULD file the intent in one county, show proof of "apprenticeship/sponsorship" in another county and be naturalized in another county. During this time period the actual naturalization HAD to be done at a Federal courthouse. A Federal courthouse might be quite a few miles away. As they built more Federal courthouses, it was done closer to "home." Then around the early 1900's, a Federal atty would go to the county and initiate the oath of allegiance at the courthouse. Macoupin residents went to St Louis to a Federal courthouse then one was built at Edwardsville then they went to the county courthouse from the direction in the above paragraph. Below is a msg I received on the St Louis Co maillist and which I had passed on with permission. This address and/or phone number might help you get closer to copies of papers. But before the message, let me defend the courthouses "just a little bit." The small courthouses only have enough money for today's work not old stuff like what we want. The court cases today require maybe 2 or 3 cubic feet of storage space for the case files of papers and they are required to keep case files for at least 20 years (I think.). In Macoupin, I have seen stacks of current case files required to be kept. Old stuff means little to a small budget and cost of rent/protection for old stuff. Well, that probably isn't much help, but you got my thoughts and if anyone finds something different, please correct me. Now, here is the message I thought might help someone or at least lead you in a direction. At 02:29 AM 5/26/99 -0500, you wrote: My thanks to the kind person who sent me info re obtaining naturalization papers. I tried that address and was told for naturalization obtained in St. Louis in the time period I needed it (abt 1945) I should go to : National Archives and Records Admin. 2312 E. Bannister Kansas City, MNO 64131 (Contact Ms. Mary Burtzloff.......1-816-926-6920) Cost is $10 payable to National Archives Trust Fund.....Ask for Declaration of Intent, also; sometimes you will get names of parents, arrival date, arrival port, etc.) When I called Ms. Burtzloff, she returned my call in one day to report she had found it-----quick response! Polly Piskos Gloria ------------------ Gloria Frazier ILGenWeb Western Regional Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/western.htm Macoupin County ILGenWeb County Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/macoupin.htm Rock Island County ILGenWeb County Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilrockis/index.html FRAZIER-L maillist