Linda, Do you have their obits? Might give a marriage date/place. Catherine [Ricono] Bertino b. 25 Nov 1890 Alice Superiore, Piemonte, Italy d. 15 Jan 1962 Benld, Macoupin, IL Joseph Bertino b. 18 Feb 1890 Forno Rivara, Piemonte, Italy d. 25 Aug 1952 Benld, Macoupin, IL Married - 1915 St Louis, MO Their son? Social Security Death Index about Romolo B. Bertino Name: Romolo B. Bertino SSN: 350-12-8182 Last Residence: 61614 Peoria, Peoria, Illinois, United States of America Born: 3 Jan 1922 Died: 26 Mar 2007 State (Year) SSN issued: Illinois (Before 1951) xxxxxxxx Romolo Bert Bertino, 85, of Trenton, Mich., recently of Morton, died at 11 a.m. March 26, 2007, in St. Francis Medical Center, Peoria. xxxxxxxxx U.S. World War II Army Enlistment Records, 1938-1946 about Romolo B Bertino Name: Romolo B Bertino Birth Year: 1922 Race: White, citizen (White) Nativity State or Country: Illinois State of Residence: Illinois County or City: MacOupin Enlistment Date: 1 Jan 1943 Enlistment State: Illinois Enlistment City: Peoria Branch: Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA Branch Code: Branch Immaterial - Warrant Officers, USA Grade: Private Grade Code: Private Term of Enlistment: Enlistment for the duration of the War or other emergency, plus six months, subject to the discretion of the President or otherwise according to law Component: Selectees (Enlisted Men) Source: Civil Life Education: 2 years of college Marital Status: Single, without dependents Height: 70 Weight: 155 xxxxxxxx BERTINO, ROMOLO BERT (Age 87) Available(5) Available TRENTON, MI PEORIA, IL Possible Relatives: BERTINO, FRANCES BLANCHE (Age 85) xxxxxxxxx Marriage Romolo Bertino & Francesca Poggi 17 June 1946 La Salle County, IL xxxxxxxxx Hope some of this is helpful, Sharon On 2 Apr 2009 at 9:41, Linda Kmiecik wrote: I am the one seeking a marriage in Missouri, and had the thought they may have eloped. They are not in the IL Secretary of State marriage database, under either the groom or the bride. I also just checked the Missouri Marriage Records 1805-2002, with no luck. They also are not in the Social Security Death Index. Apparently there is no easy research on this couple. The couple is: Joseph D. Bertino and Catherine Ricono, with a probable marriage year of 1915 (cemetery record, source unknown). Both were born in 1890. They lived in Benld and are buried in Benld Cemetery. Linda Kmiecik ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia L. Aldridge" <vlaldridge@insightbb.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: [ILMACOUP] Eloping to MO > For those interested in couples who married in MO. > > Ancestry has a database: > > Missouri Marriage Records, 1805-2002 > Types of marriage records found in this database include marriage > licenses, applications for marriage licenses, records of marriages > solemnized, marriage certificates, marriage registers, and indexes. Due > to the variety of record types, all of the above listed information may > not be available for each marriage. On the other hand, there may also be > additional information listed on actual marriage records. This can be > found by viewing the record images. > > It may not help all of you, but some may find what you need. Many local > libraries have Ancestry available. > > And if one sent the names of the marriage couple to the list, someone > may have ancestry at home and help you out. > > Regards, > Virginia > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My sincere apology - this was not meant for the website. On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:20 AM, Carl Stedman wrote: > Hi Sue, > > This is the first message I read after sending a note to you - ironic. > Macoupin is the County where Benjamin had quite a bit of land, and > where his wife, your g-g-g-grandmother is probably buried. > > On Apr 2, 2009, at 8:47 AM, W Hinton wrote: > >> For those who live away from the vicinity >> of Macoupin County. It is all over the news >> in this area that mine subsidence ruined >> the Benld Elementary School over this >> past weekend. This is / was quite a building, >> only seven years old and is totalty unusable. >> Over 700 students are affected. >> >> Classes have been canceled for the entire >> school district until today. The High School >> and Middle School buildings in Gillespie >> are being utilized on a split schedule. >> High and Middle school classes are form >> early morning until noon and then the >> elementary classes use these buildings >> until 5:15 pm. >> >> A google search will bring up a lot of >> news media hits for the coverage about >> this "disaster". >> >> All of Macoupin County has a rich history >> around coal mines and this sad event >> sure adds to the history of mining. >> >> I have bit of the mine history for the >> Gillespie and Benld vicinity at : >> http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/mining.html >> >> We should all be very thankful that this >> occured when no one was in the building, >> so there was not any human injuries. >> >> Wayne >> http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/ >> >> Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http:// >> www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- >> request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message > > Carl Stedman > carl492@charter.net > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http:// > www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Sue, This is the first message I read after sending a note to you - ironic. Macoupin is the County where Benjamin had quite a bit of land, and where his wife, your g-g-g-grandmother is probably buried. On Apr 2, 2009, at 8:47 AM, W Hinton wrote: > For those who live away from the vicinity > of Macoupin County. It is all over the news > in this area that mine subsidence ruined > the Benld Elementary School over this > past weekend. This is / was quite a building, > only seven years old and is totalty unusable. > Over 700 students are affected. > > Classes have been canceled for the entire > school district until today. The High School > and Middle School buildings in Gillespie > are being utilized on a split schedule. > High and Middle school classes are form > early morning until noon and then the > elementary classes use these buildings > until 5:15 pm. > > A google search will bring up a lot of > news media hits for the coverage about > this "disaster". > > All of Macoupin County has a rich history > around coal mines and this sad event > sure adds to the history of mining. > > I have bit of the mine history for the > Gillespie and Benld vicinity at : > http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/mining.html > > We should all be very thankful that this > occured when no one was in the building, > so there was not any human injuries. > > Wayne > http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/ > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http:// > www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- > request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message Carl Stedman carl492@charter.net

Virginia, Thank you for the reminder. I truly had forgotten that. I will need to check at the Archives (we do have a few books) and perhaps at the Courthouse for an index. Linda Kmiecik ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia L. Aldridge" <vlaldridge@insightbb.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 11:20 AM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Eloping to MO > Linda, > > The Illinois online database only goes to 1900. Any marriage after that > time is not in the database. So they may have married in Illinois after > all. > > Good luck with your research. Have you checked with bordering counties > in Iowa? > > Regards, > Virginia > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Linda, The Illinois online database only goes to 1900. Any marriage after that time is not in the database. So they may have married in Illinois after all. Good luck with your research. Have you checked with bordering counties in Iowa? Regards, Virginia

I am the one seeking a marriage in Missouri, and had the thought they may have eloped. They are not in the IL Secretary of State marriage database, under either the groom or the bride. I also just checked the Missouri Marriage Records 1805-2002, with no luck. They also are not in the Social Security Death Index. Apparently there is no easy research on this couple. The couple is: Joseph D. Bertino and Catherine Ricono, with a probable marriage year of 1915 (cemetery record, source unknown). Both were born in 1890. They lived in Benld and are buried in Benld Cemetery. Linda Kmiecik ----- Original Message ----- From: "Virginia L. Aldridge" <vlaldridge@insightbb.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:37 AM Subject: [ILMACOUP] Eloping to MO > For those interested in couples who married in MO. > > Ancestry has a database: > > Missouri Marriage Records, 1805-2002 > Types of marriage records found in this database include marriage > licenses, applications for marriage licenses, records of marriages > solemnized, marriage certificates, marriage registers, and indexes. Due > to the variety of record types, all of the above listed information may > not be available for each marriage. On the other hand, there may also be > additional information listed on actual marriage records. This can be > found by viewing the record images. > > It may not help all of you, but some may find what you need. Many local > libraries have Ancestry available. > > And if one sent the names of the marriage couple to the list, someone > may have ancestry at home and help you out. > > Regards, > Virginia > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

For those who live away from the vicinity of Macoupin County. It is all over the news in this area that mine subsidence ruined the Benld Elementary School over this past weekend. This is / was quite a building, only seven years old and is totalty unusable. Over 700 students are affected. Classes have been canceled for the entire school district until today. The High School and Middle School buildings in Gillespie are being utilized on a split schedule. High and Middle school classes are form early morning until noon and then the elementary classes use these buildings until 5:15 pm. A google search will bring up a lot of news media hits for the coverage about this "disaster". All of Macoupin County has a rich history around coal mines and this sad event sure adds to the history of mining. I have bit of the mine history for the Gillespie and Benld vicinity at : http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/mining.html We should all be very thankful that this occured when no one was in the building, so there was not any human injuries. Wayne http://gillespieil.com/gillespie/

For those interested in couples who married in MO. Ancestry has a database: Missouri Marriage Records, 1805-2002 Types of marriage records found in this database include marriage licenses, applications for marriage licenses, records of marriages solemnized, marriage certificates, marriage registers, and indexes. Due to the variety of record types, all of the above listed information may not be available for each marriage. On the other hand, there may also be additional information listed on actual marriage records. This can be found by viewing the record images. It may not help all of you, but some may find what you need. Many local libraries have Ancestry available. And if one sent the names of the marriage couple to the list, someone may have ancestry at home and help you out. Regards, Virginia

Gloria, Just curious why you are asking about places in Missouri to which couples eloped. My story: I was told a family member had been married in St. Charles, so I went to the St. Charles County courthouse to find the marriage license. I had the date of the marriage, so I wasn't hampered by that missing info. After searching through the books, I finally explained to the clerk what I was looking for and asked if there was something I was doing wrong. She informed me that, in MO, marriages are recorded in the county where the marriage license was obtained, which may or may not be the county in which the marriage occurred (unlike Illinois, where marriage license must be issued in county where marriage will occur). I'm still searching for this marriage license -- checking many other possible counties, since this couple (prior to marrying) lived together in a number of different places. Not sure why they married in St. Charles, since that was not one of the places (that I am aware of) that they ever lived. Jan researching Schoen (Macoupin and Montgomery Co) and de Werff (Montgomery Co) and many others _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009

Jan What couple are you looking for regarding the marriage?  Perhaps I might be able to help.  I live in St Ann MO about 10 minutes from St Charles (allowing for the stoplights to be red when I get to them).  I also have some resources here at home. Debbi --- On Thu, 4/2/09, Janet Monaghan <accentjan@hotmail.com> wrote: From: Janet Monaghan <accentjan@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] eloping to MO To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 1:19 AM Gloria, Just curious why you are asking about places in Missouri to which couples eloped. My story:  I was told a family member had been married in St. Charles, so I went to the St. Charles County courthouse to find the marriage license.  I had the date of the marriage, so I wasn't hampered by that missing info.  After searching through the books, I finally explained to the clerk what I was looking for and asked if there was something I was doing wrong.  She informed me that, in MO, marriages are recorded in the county where the marriage license was obtained, which may or may not be the county in which the marriage occurred (unlike Illinois, where marriage license must be issued in county where marriage will occur). I'm still searching for this marriage license -- checking many other possible counties, since this couple (prior to marrying) lived together in a number of different places. Not sure why they married in St. Charles, since that was not one of the places (that I am aware of) that they ever lived. Jan researching Schoen (Macoupin and Montgomery Co) and de Werff (Montgomery Co) and many others _________________________________________________________________ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009 Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I heard the laws in Illinois were, where you had to apply and wait days. In Mo, You could get your license and get married the same day. No hassle. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <RRA1139@aol.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:01 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Eloping to Missouri, curious > For what it's worth, my parents from Macoupin County were married in > Festus, > Jefferson County, Mo, in 1939. Never thought to ask why. > > Bob Awe > rra1139@aol.com > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID > %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Find A Grave does charge but most don't realize it.  It's the ads you see and I believe someone told me the special in memory of feature is also a paid item.  As far as I know they have no intention of charging and don't intend to because of the need to preserve the cemetery inventories.  They accept lstings with and without a gravestone on the burial spot.  They allow the submitter to make corrections/additions, transfer the listing, provide a photo of the gravestone and individual, provide a photo of the cemetery (entrance only or overall shot) and memorials by anyone who wishes to leave it.  Some listings have hundreds of memorials and if you read some you'll find that Find A Grave is helping them through their personal loss of a loved one. Not all cemeteries are listed and in some cases several people have submitted listings for the same cemetery but have a different name for the cemetery.  If you find a cemetery has been duplicated in name, they will allow you to send them a message and as time permits they will combine the two into one so that it will be more helpful to all.  If you go through a county's listing and find a cemetery has been omitted, you can also send them a message given the name, nearest town/community, county and state and they will add it to the county's list. As with all sites, cooperation is the key element.  They will meet you in the middle if you are willing to do your part. However, before submitting an entire cemetery listing to any site, please make sure you have the permission of the cemetery board/association if one exists.  I know that one cemetery was inventoried and then published for profit without the cemetery board's permission.  Upon learning about the situation the board was not happy. Some cemetery boards (or owners of profit making cemeteries) do not allow the cemetery to be inventoried or photographs taken of the gravestones because of the agreement the lot owners signed.  Their thoughts were that we have to get the permission of the lot owners.  The problem with this is what do you do when the lot owner is deceased.  One cemetery owner told me that as far as they were concerned the next of kin could not give the permission.  Luckily that cemetery is now owned by someone else and permitted a copy of the burials to be made available to a library.  I won't say which cemetery but I will say it's in Madison Co IL. Debbi --- On Mon, 3/30/09, MADMANSMOM@aol.com <MADMANSMOM@aol.com> wrote: From: MADMANSMOM@aol.com <MADMANSMOM@aol.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] find a grave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 11:11 PM I finally thought I found a website that didn't charge for information and  made it readily available.  I posted a few graves and my name was mentioned  there.  I also gave connections as to who these people were.  I found  ones previously posted and added my notes to either identify the people or add  missing information.  I am sad to hear that Find A Grave may start being a  pay site. That takes all the fun out of genealogy.  It's supposed to  be about sharing information and then the person you share with shares  back.  RAOGK worked that way for me.  I did some work for a gentleman  in Arizona and guess what, he was able to give back and help me.  I send  out stuff for free as long as I know it's for personal use.  I don't like  my work being put on a website without my authority because some of it is  personal information.  I suppose I will share with Find a Grave until they  start charging.  Mary **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Gloria They may not have went to MO but to AR.  Years ago and even now a person can go to Clay Co AR (at the state line south of Poplar Bluff MO) to get married.  Virtually no proof of age is needed if the two look like they are of age.  There is no waiting period.  They simply walk into the county clerk's office to apply for a license, get the license, walk down the hall to the judge's chambers, get married and walk out of the building married within 15 to 20 minutes.  You'd be surprised at the number of couples, young and old, who went and go there from the surrounding counties in MO.  I've even found some from Madison Co, Jersey Co and other nearby counties who made the trip down there and came back the same day. I believe in some of my research I also found some in Butler Co MO.  If they were willing to wait the 3 days. Also, have you tried Lincoln Co MO (Troy).  Some went there and at one time I don't think the officials there used a waiting period even though they were suppose to.  My aunt and uncle went there in 1941 (she claimed 1940 but I found the license dated 1941) from Macoupin Co. Debbi --- On Mon, 3/30/09, G Frazier <macoupincounty@earthlink.net> wrote: From: G Frazier <macoupincounty@earthlink.net> Subject: [ILMACOUP] Eloping to Missouri, curious To: ILMACOUP@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 9:40 PM Years ago when a couple eloped to MO from IL, where did they go? Not Farmington, not St Charles, not St Louis. Need another popular place in MO for elopers. Gloria Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I finally thought I found a website that didn't charge for information and made it readily available. I posted a few graves and my name was mentioned there. I also gave connections as to who these people were. I found ones previously posted and added my notes to either identify the people or add missing information. I am sad to hear that Find A Grave may start being a pay site. That takes all the fun out of genealogy. It's supposed to be about sharing information and then the person you share with shares back. RAOGK worked that way for me. I did some work for a gentleman in Arizona and guess what, he was able to give back and help me. I send out stuff for free as long as I know it's for personal use. I don't like my work being put on a website without my authority because some of it is personal information. I suppose I will share with Find a Grave until they start charging. Mary **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

For what it's worth, my parents from Macoupin County were married in Festus, Jefferson County, Mo, in 1939. Never thought to ask why. Bob Awe rra1139@aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

Years ago when a couple eloped to MO from IL, where did they go? Not Farmington, not St Charles, not St Louis. Need another popular place in MO for elopers. Gloria

Bowling Green, Pike County, MO At 09:40 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: >Years ago when a couple eloped to MO from IL, where did they go? > >Not Farmington, not St Charles, not St Louis. Need another popular place in >MO for elopers. > >Gloria > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I found several that went to Marion and Pike and Lincoln counties in MO to get married. Joseph Meyer ----- Original Message ----- From: "G Frazier" <macoupincounty@earthlink.net> To: <ILMACOUP@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:40 PM Subject: [ILMACOUP] Eloping to Missouri, curious Years ago when a couple eloped to MO from IL, where did they go? Not Farmington, not St Charles, not St Louis. Need another popular place in MO for elopers. Gloria Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Please, good people, do not walk on copyrights. Obits are copyrighted. So, if you plan to use obits post 75yrs as your own in a public forum, ask for written permission which I do not get when I ask. You question a person's right to who wrote it? And, the form you use to excerpt is fine if you do not take ALL the obits of that paper. If you use this (my) msg in a book or public forum and I did not want you to do that, I will win in court. THIS MSG IS COPYRIGHTED. Well, dummies say there is no copyright note on it. I don't have to put a copyright note on this msg. IT IS COPYRIGHTED. Get real. Why would you want to hurt our publishers by walking on them? No, little publishers do not have the money to sue you so why not walk on them? Excerpt one or two is fine. Excerpt ALL is not fine. Honesty. Be true to thy self. Off my soapbox and back to my corner. Gloria At 05:20 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: >Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print >a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold >the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the >creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often >than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original >obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they >must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim >copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that >a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another >party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict >others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is >a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a >page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the >obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and > family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of > the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very > clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who > has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary > is the one who wrote it. > ><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has >seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David >Eisenhower > > >--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM > > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, > > note that obituaries are copyrighted. The copyright > > belongs to the newspaper owner. Thus no obit should appear > > online without the owner's permission and that > > permission must be noted. Otherwise you are infringing > > upon the copyright. Copyright for obits follow the book > > publication years - 75 years after published. > > > > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to > > do an abstract. I use this type when I'm at a library > > where photocopy services are not available with the > > microfilm reader. I simply use a form I created (and can > > be used by anyone) with the following info - > > > > Name of Deceased > > Name of Newspaper > > Date of Newspaper > > Birth Date > > Birth Place > > Parents > > Spouse > > Marriage Date > > Marriage Place > > Death Date > > Death Place > > Age at time of Death > > Children and if given Address > > Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address > > Burial Date > > Burial Place > > Funeral Home > > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations > > > > > > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is > > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the > > copyright law. (I worked with copyright for numerous years > > as part of my job and would question those more > > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) > > > > > > Debbi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am with the person who replied earlier - not trying to offend but..................can we move on? G Frazier wrote: > Please, good people, do not walk on copyrights. > > Obits are copyrighted. So, if you plan to use obits post 75yrs as your own > in a public forum, ask for written permission which I do not get when I > ask. You question a person's right to who wrote it? > > And, the form you use to excerpt is fine if you do not take ALL the obits > of that paper. > > If you use this (my) msg in a book or public forum and I did not want you > to do that, I will win in court. THIS MSG IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Well, dummies say there is no copyright note on it. I don't have to put a > copyright note on this msg. IT IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Get real. Why would you want to hurt our publishers by walking on them? > > No, little publishers do not have the money to sue you so why not walk on them? > > Excerpt one or two is fine. Excerpt ALL is not fine. > > Honesty. Be true to thy self. > > Off my soapbox and back to my corner. > > Gloria > > At 05:20 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > > >> Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print >> a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold >> the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the >> creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often >> than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original >> obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they >> must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim >> copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that >> a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another >> party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict >> others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is >> a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a >> page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the >> obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and >> family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of >> the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very >> clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who >> has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary >> is the one who wrote it. >> >> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has >> seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David >> Eisenhower >> >> >> --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> >>> From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> >>> Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright >>> To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com >>> Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM >>> While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, >>> note that obituaries are copyrighted. The copyright >>> belongs to the newspaper owner. Thus no obit should appear >>> online without the owner's permission and that >>> permission must be noted. Otherwise you are infringing >>> upon the copyright. Copyright for obits follow the book >>> publication years - 75 years after published. >>> >>> The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to >>> do an abstract. I use this type when I'm at a library >>> where photocopy services are not available with the >>> microfilm reader. I simply use a form I created (and can >>> be used by anyone) with the following info - >>> >>> Name of Deceased >>> Name of Newspaper >>> Date of Newspaper >>> Birth Date >>> Birth Place >>> Parents >>> Spouse >>> Marriage Date >>> Marriage Place >>> Death Date >>> Death Place >>> Age at time of Death >>> Children and if given Address >>> Grandchildren (number unless named) >>> Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >>> Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >>> Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address >>> Burial Date >>> Burial Place >>> Funeral Home >>> Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations >>> >>> >>> This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is >>> not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the >>> copyright law. (I worked with copyright for numerous years >>> as part of my job and would question those more >>> knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) >>> >>> >>> Debbi >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >>> http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word >>> 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >>> the body of the message >>> >> >> >> >> Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >> http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >