I went to the IL State Historical library yesterday. If anyone is planning to go there, or will be parking in the general area, be warned... The Old State Capitol parking garage entrance (on 6th street, going north) is closed. The only way into the garage is to turn into the parking lane on 5th street (going THE WRONG WAY on a one-way street!) and use the exit. I used street parking myself ;-) Here is a scan of a construction notice I picked up at the library: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/images/parkcap.gif EA

I am told in and around 1830 an family of Dingeldein/Dingledine came to Peoria , Washington area and settled. I would appreciate and leads you could provide in this search.It seems that they are still in in Peoria Area as well. There also seems to be some family members found in the Macoupin Co. The line seems to start Johann Adam Dingeldein. -- Derek Dingledine Ontario Canada Derek.Dingledine@sympatico.ca Searching for All Dingeldein/Dingledine In USA and Canada

One solution I recd for GeoCities popup ads is that they can be made permanent at the top of the page; they won't popup; they just stay. Here is another one I recd: Quote: "I wrote a note on our opening page to help people deal with them. The key is to NOT "hit the X." If you minimize the pop-up or simply click on the web page you won't have to look at it AND when you go to other pages on the site another pop-up will not, uh, pop up. Don't close the ad (by hitting the X) until you leave GeoCities. Hope this helps." Another solution would be to have an email address where we could write GeoCities our distaste in really wanting to read good material and the popup ads keep us so frustrated that we just leave. Thanks for the ideas. Gloria

Hi Jack, Will send attachment of listing for Virden Cem, Virden Twp, Macoupin Co IL in another email. Think you are going to find a "few" of your Coxes there. Not sure abt this but in case it might be, date could have been misread. COX, ALVA L SURLES, CLARA Volume 2, page 161 SHELBY 03-08-1896 If you want to try for a marriage cert: Prob abt 5 to 10 dollars. Ask first by sending LSASE to: County Clerk Shelby County Courthouse Shelbyville, IL 62565 Explain the date thing. Virden will be on your atlas. On Rt 4 abt 20 miles south of Spfld IL If you are really good,<g> the below url WILL copy and paste into your browser window. The site shows a little closer the cem in relation to Virden. http://sunsdi.er.usgs.gov:8888/gnis/owa/MapServer?f_name=Virden+Ceme tery&f_state=IL&f_latlong=393059N0894725W&server=TIGER This information for IL State Archives death records 1916-1944 might be of help. http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/m_archiv.htm#death There is a possibility an actual death record for 1916-1944 could be obtained thru email but that process is not proven by me, yet. Death (1877 - 1915) Records: County Clerk Macoupin County Courthouse PO Box 107 Carlinville, IL 62626 Include name and date of birth or death. Cost $7.00 Birth and Death Records from January 1916 (but the IL State Archives would cover 1916-1944 and would be cheaper than the Office of Vital Records so go to the Vital Records Office for 1945 plus - At the Vital Records Office, you are going to need proof of relationship probably in getting anything later than 1945.): Office of Vital Records State Department of Public Health 535 West Jefferson Street Springfield, Illinois 62761 Include name and date of birth or death. All items may be verified. Inquiries will be forwarded to appropriate office. Date: 31 Oct 98 19:09:38 America/Fort_Wayne From: Jack Cox <jack_cox@usa.net> To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <19981031190939.27285.qmail@www0k.netaddress.usa.net> Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] Cox Family - Palmyra Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thought I would give this another shot. My grandfather, Earl Truman Cox, was born in Palmyra, Il on 9/12/1891. Looking for information on his father, Alvin Cox, listed on the Birth Certificate as residing in Palmyra at the time. Alvin's birth location is listed only as Illinois, and occupation is farm laborer. With the billions of Coxes out there, I am having real trouble with this part of my line. Thanks for any advice! Jack Cox Overland Park, KS ------------------ Gloria Frazier DE>IL-Coverdill IN>IL-Hays KY>IL-Nash/Oller/Shipp KY>MO-Frazier/Morrison/Ragland/Upton/Hamilton KY>Hord TN>IL-Adcock/Carter/Sutton/Richards/Warren/Wingo TN-Baseye Thrasher

Some days I am quiet and some days I can't keep my finger off the send key.<g> I do agree with those ads you can't get rid of to read a web page, tho. All I can see is banging on the stupid X. gf ------------- Copy:::: << I do dread go visiting any site located at Geocities because every time I do - my computer will freeze up because of ^&*( ad popups plus midi/wav built in. Geocities is only one that I know of that have ad pop up on EVERY page unless you pay them not to. >> To me who spends darn near every waking moment on-line because apart from GenWeb I do make my living on the puter, those ads & consoles are absolutely irritating. I think the only ones on this list that have said otherwise are in fact ones that 1. Have their pages there 2. Don't spend a lot of time on the web I cannot even close or get off these sites til the blasted first pop-up has finished loading & they are slow! No matter how many times I hammer on the X. And yes... freeze up is another major problem!!!! PS. I also would not think it would be out of line to have some guidlelines as to where pages are located. ------ End Copy

FYI - Be Warned with Free sites. ------------------- >This isn't the first time this has happened. > >GeoCities has been cheerfully selling its information about its >members to whoever wanted to buy it for as long as I can remember. >They were sufficiently blatant about it that the FTC finally sat on >them just a few months ago. > >Most of the other "free" sites probably do the same thing. > >The thing that really worries me is the feeling that the information >we gather with our query systems and such at sites like GeoCities >will eventually be sold to marketeers. > >I don't think it's a matter of "if" -- I think it's a matter of >"when". The Board and the SCs probably ought to be thinking about >how they are going to regain the confidence of the community after >some site like GeoCities sells some business like Broderbund a list >of e-mail addresses that appear on genealogical Websites they host. > >At risk of patting ourselves on the back, this is one problem will >never arise at RootsWeb. First of all, we think this is a *really* >slimey practice and can't imagine anyone with more moral fiber than >an earthworm selling information to marketeers. Apart from that, we >couldn't sell information even if we were slimey devils; RootsWeb is >funded by voluntary contributions, and those contributions would dry >up in a heartbeat and we'd die eventually if we were ever anything >other than squeaky-clean in the way we operate. > >Cheers, B. > > >-- >Dr. Brian Leverich Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L >RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative http://www.rootsweb.com/

>From: Gerald Gieger <giegerg@HOTMAIL.COM> >To: DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU ><DEEP-SOUTH-ROOTS-L@LISTSERV.INDIANA.EDU> >Date: 29 October, 1998 12:37 PM >I am passing this along to the list. Even though it is Halloween time >lets not treat them!! > >I recently received a mailing about how my family had been in the Civil >War,and that there was now a book about them. >Buyer Beware when ordering these Civil War family history books. > >Halbert's are back to their old tricks again! > >Halbert's of Bath, Ohio, has come up with a new gimic. They are now using an >address from Washington, DC, to try and peddle their wares. > >Halbert's is now using the name: >"US Information Burueau NUMA" (note the spelling of Bureau) >3220 N. St, NW Ste 1400 >Washington D.C. (no zip code given)" > >They are advertising a book regarding all the people with your family's >surname in the Civil War. Don't be fooled. This is the same poor >craftmanship and outdated generic information in a new cover. >This time they want $49.95+ shipping and handling. > >Be very, very careful!!! Don't believe their money back guarantee. >They are a real hassle to deal with.

I am searching for the whearabouts of a Frank Sokop or Sokup who md Mrs Sarah Sherman in about 1873 0r 74 somewhere. There were other Sokops in Macoupin co but I cant locate a Frank at all in 1880 census. If anyone has any information on the name I would appreciate it please will share mine joseph meyer

I am looking for any information on the death for Charles and Nancy Lair. i am also wanting information on the death and burial of Martha Clevenger. I am looking for any information on John and Marie Tavis. The only thing that I know on them is that Marie maiden name was Davis. Their children are Isaac, and Elizabeth they may of had more children. Elizabeth was born in 1833. The other dates I don't know. dorothy@linkfast.com

Looking for help on Obit lookup. Bunker Hill -- Michael PEARSON died April 23, 1865 and his wife Ashewhay PEARSON died June 6, 1905. Both are outside the published index dates. Are there records?

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F047A4159C0A44923DE756A1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I need some ideas as to what to do next. This is my problem, my ggrandmother is buried in Benld City Cemetery, along with many relatives. I have not been able to come up with any documentation for her at all.She was Caterina Contratto, b.1884 d. 1915, according to her tombstone. I have tried the IL State Archives, IRAD, Macoupin County, Madison County, St.Clair County. Since they were living in Troy,IL as of the 1910 Census, I had someone search the obituaries of the Troy Call Newspaper. None of the sources has any record of her or her death. Where do I go from here? Also, to make it more puzzling, buried between my ggrandparents is a woman named Joevanna Contratto, b.1856 d.1926. I have no idea who she is, other than possibly Caterina's mother. I have not been able to obtain a death certificate on her either. She doe not appear in the IL Death Index and Macoupin County has no record of her death. Did the Benld City Cemetery maintain any sort of records from the burials? I'll appreciate any suggestions. Thanks Debbie Contratto Hoffman --------------F047A4159C0A44923DE756A1 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for ronhoffman Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: ronhoffman n: ;ronhoffman email;internet: hoffmanr@flyernet.udayton.edu x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------F047A4159C0A44923DE756A1--

Hi, Is anyone related to a May McReynolds who lived as a young girl in Gillespie? I have 3 old school books that belonged to her. In a book "Orthography and Word Analysis" by Elmer W. Cavins, copyrighted 1914 - she writes in front, on sticker, May McReynolds - Grade - eight. Sticker says: Headquarters For School Supplies Behrens Drug Store Gillespie Illinois She paid 46 cents for the book. She tells about her name being spelled May and Mae. She also tells about her Dad's first cousin May McReynolds who died at age 26. I have another book- "Johnny Miller or Truth and Perseverance" by Flex Weiss. In front someone wrote Bayard Barlow xmas 1884. I can find no date of printing. Happy Hunting, Kathie

Maybe Carolyn could check with Historical Society. Might be they have made corrections, know of the error. If not would like to know?? I see it like Gloria does...Maxfield in alpha order as if it were Mayfield. Will leave both readings in my book. Mary Ann STEWART Family Home Page <http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/k/a/y/Mary-Ann--Kaylor/ On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 12:05:36 -0500 Gloria Frazier <glofra@townsqr.com> writes: >Hi, > >Yes, Colleen and I have had this discussion before. > >In the first part/section of Tombstone Revelations I, in alpha >order, for Maxfield we think should be Mayfield. >There are two sets of Maxfields in this section and we are looking >at the set which only lists 4 people: >MAXFIELD >George W >Cpl Luke >Alice >Manning > >These people buried in Sulphur Springs Cem, Nilwood Twp and in Ross >Cem, South Otter Twp. > >A Manning LeRoy "Roy" MAYFIELD married my Amy Belle "Belle" ADCOCK. >Roy and Belle lived in Nilwood across my from grandparents when I >was growing up in Nilwood. And believe the Manning listed above for >TR I is probably/possibly Roy's father. > >Anyone with differing ideas? Probably needs a bit more proof. > >Gloria > >From: NCTerrell@aol.com >Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:38:44 EDT >To: glofra@townsqr.com >Subject: Mayfield\Maxfield, Luke > >Gloria, > >I believe I corresponded with you about Luke Mayfield/Maxfield. I >was just >looking at the new volume 26 from Family Tree Maker's Family >Archives and >there is a Luke Mayfield with 13 children who died in Macoupin >County. The >dates match the Tombstone Revelations information. Also, the >George W. >listed with him matches the dates of one of his sons. Looks like >the Maxfield >heading should be Mayfield in the book. > >Colleen Terrell > > >==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== >Submit your Macoupin County family births, marriages, deaths, Bible >records, articles, and cemetery information from your own research >to be included at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/il/macoupin/macoupin.htm > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

Cathy, This is very interesting. My Gr.Grandmother came from Germany to Mt. Olive, IL and your name is so very close to the name of her mother, Anna REINIES. Unfortunately, I know little about her except that Anna would have been b. abt 1850 (or bef). Her daughter, Juliana Auguste Barkowski b. 1868-9, Galsdon, Tilsit, Germany (very East Prussia). She m. in Germany to Wilhelm Heinrich Schultze. He died, 11 months after they arrived in the USA. Sharon Buethner > Hi everyone, > I need some help to locate ROSE REINERS or her children. She lived with her > family in Staunton around > 1950. I do not know if she married or if so her married name. I do not know > if she is still alive. > If anyone knows how I can get in touch with her or her family Please let me > know. > This is VERY important to me but I cannot give more information in this > message. If you know this family or need more info before giving me > information please contact me personally. > > Thanks so much > have a blessed day > > Cathy Parnell Vance > velvetcres@msn.com > http://angelfire.com/ky/johnparnell > researching: PARNELL, MAYS, KEMP/CAMP,COFFEY/COFFEE, LINTON, FYFE, HURTT In > Ky and IL at this time. > > > > > > ==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from ILMACOUP-L-request@rootsweb.com, send a message to > ILMACOUP-L-request@rootsweb.com > that contains in the body of the message the command > unsubscribe> and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. AOL requires a subject line. >

Hi everyone, I need some help to locate ROSE REINERS or her children. She lived with her family in Staunton around 1950. I do not know if she married or if so her married name. I do not know if she is still alive. If anyone knows how I can get in touch with her or her family Please let me know. This is VERY important to me but I cannot give more information in this message. If you know this family or need more info before giving me information please contact me personally. Thanks so much have a blessed day Cathy Parnell Vance velvetcres@msn.com http://angelfire.com/ky/johnparnell researching: PARNELL, MAYS, KEMP/CAMP,COFFEY/COFFEE, LINTON, FYFE, HURTT In Ky and IL at this time.

Gloria wrote: > ....................when I > was growing up in Nilwood. SNIP > Gloria Dear Gloria et al, Maybe what I need is a local perspective to help me solve a mystery. I am trying to find out who the "J. READER and Co., Grain Merchants" were/was in Nilwood in 1880. They/he may or may not be connected to my READER family. I found this reference in the Archives in the Nilwood History. My grandfather also knew about this J. READER, because it was also mentioned in the Nilwood chapter in "The Story of Macoupin County", printed in 1979 to celebrate the Macoupin County Sesquicentennial. I know the following: 1. Paschal L. READER, my gg-grandfather, owned land in Western Mound Township near Chesterfield (farm was near the later village of Reader). He had a brother named James H. READER, born in 1823 (family bible record). The READER family came to Macoupin Co. from TN in 1830. Their father was Jeptha READER, who died in 1839. There is no further mention of James H. READER in family records. 2. Paschal's son George W. READER left us a diary from 1867 while a student at Blackburn College in Carlinville. In it there are references to his father (Paschal) going to Nilwood on business in 1867, shortly before leaving on a trip to Texas and his subsequent death there (Paschal's). There are mentions of visiting "Uncle James" but this could be James Rafferty, brother of his mother Margaret (RAFFERTY) READER. 3. George's brother James K. Polk READER, also a student at Blackburn, graduated in 1868, then studied medicine in St. Louis, graduating in 1872. Dr. James K. READER began practice in Auburn, IL (Sangamon Co.) where he married a Louisa POLEY. He subseqently moved back to practice in Macoupin County before moving to Oregon in 1880. They had no children. 4. There is a marriage record for a James READER and a Rebecca BOOTH about 1868 in Macoupin Co. My questions (or theories) are: - What happened to James H.? Did he die young in TN or come to IL in 1830? - If so did he have any family/descendents? - Was he "J. READER", grain merchant in Nilwood, and partners with Paschal? - Did he marry Rebecca BOOTH or was she a first wife of James K.? - Did Dr. James K. READER relocate to be near his Uncle James H. READER? - Does anyone have any burial information on any J. or James READER in Macoupin? Any help? Don Reader St. Louis, MO e-mail: readerd@storz.com

Hi, Yes, Colleen and I have had this discussion before. In the first part/section of Tombstone Revelations I, in alpha order, for Maxfield we think should be Mayfield. There are two sets of Maxfields in this section and we are looking at the set which only lists 4 people: MAXFIELD George W Cpl Luke Alice Manning These people buried in Sulphur Springs Cem, Nilwood Twp and in Ross Cem, South Otter Twp. A Manning LeRoy "Roy" MAYFIELD married my Amy Belle "Belle" ADCOCK. Roy and Belle lived in Nilwood across my from grandparents when I was growing up in Nilwood. And believe the Manning listed above for TR I is probably/possibly Roy's father. Anyone with differing ideas? Probably needs a bit more proof. Gloria From: NCTerrell@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 18:38:44 EDT To: glofra@townsqr.com Subject: Mayfield\Maxfield, Luke Gloria, I believe I corresponded with you about Luke Mayfield/Maxfield. I was just looking at the new volume 26 from Family Tree Maker's Family Archives and there is a Luke Mayfield with 13 children who died in Macoupin County. The dates match the Tombstone Revelations information. Also, the George W. listed with him matches the dates of one of his sons. Looks like the Maxfield heading should be Mayfield in the book. Colleen Terrell

> Jarman - Henry Jarman born in 1788 in Tyrell Co.,NC. He married Keziah > Sawyer 26 OCT 1829 in Tyrell Co.,NC. He died in 1858 in Macoupin Co.,IL. > They had a daughter Phoebe Jarman b.15 APR 1852 in Macoupin Co.,IL. Phoebe > married Williamson Sexton 22 DEC 1870 in Macoupin Co.,IL. Williamson Sexton > was born 18 JUN 1848 in Macoupin Co.,IL. He was the son of Samuel Sexton > and Mary Mize. Mary Mize was the daughter of Obadiah Mize b. 1800 in NC, d. > 1870 in Macoupin Co.,IL. > > The names I as searching for are JARMAN, MIZE, SEXTON, SAWYER. > > Would love to hear from anyone else researching these lines. > > Thanks for your time > > Kris Adcock > captkrew@fgi.net My grandfather Ernest READER, born in Western Mound Township in 1890, had an older sister named Nellie who married an Ollie (Oliver?) SAWYER. They had no children and I believe they lived near Staunton in their later years, but that is all I know. His other brother, Irvin READER, married a Bessie SHELTON. Irvin was the Supervisor for South Otter Township, I believe in the 1930's. They had no children either. Don Reader St. Louis, MO e-mail: readerd@storz.com

Hi, I figure if I can make a few more long shot blood connections, I will have successfully found that Mom was right that we were kin to everyone we met on that street in Macoupin. I am kin to Carolynn Jones Bettis' husband Frank. Frank and I are double 2nd cousins. Lookout Carolynn, here cums de Jones'. If you married your 3rd cousin, I won't tell. Just kidding. Below, Elah Jones married first to Frank and my gggreat aunt Mary Ann Hays. After Mary Ann's death, Elah married Mary Ann's sister Elizabeth Hays Sanford. Mary Ann and Elizabeth's parents, Eli and Ellen Hurley Hays are buried in Union Chapel Cem, N Otter Twp, Macoupin. It is the Sanford family about which I need information. Elizabeth and Alexander Sanford were said to have divorced. When did they get divorced? Why? Did they have other children besides the daughter who died at 21 yrs old? Did Alexander remarry? Elizabeth and daughter Maude are buried in Union Chapel Cem, N Otter Twp, Macoupin. Where did Alex go and where was he buried? Take that back, need info on the Elah Jones/Elizabeth Hays Sanford marriage. Elah's first wife Mary Ann died in 1892. Elah died in 1900 so Elah and Eliz had to get married tween 1892 and 1900. Does anyone have a marriage index to ck? They aren't in the ISGS CD as I could find. And, neither was a second marriage listed in IL for Alex Sanford, Elizabeth's first husband. ----------------------------- Mary Ann Kaylor wrote: Elah Jones in Waverly, Morgan Co., sounds like one of my Jones families. I have an Elah Jones who was the s/o Robert Augustus Jones and Letitia England. Robert & Letitia were married 1834 Morgan Co. IL. ------------------------------- This information from Janet Hays. She wasn't the source but I have source name. Robert Augustus JONES b: 04 Jan 1818 d: 04 Nov 1900 +Letitia (Lutisha) Ann ENGLAND b: 24 Jan 1817 d: Oct 1898 m: 16 Oct 1834 in Morgan Co IL [1] Elah "Ely" JONES b: 08 Mar 1837 in Waverly Morgan Co IL d: 08 Nov 1900 Fact 2: Buried Jones Cem transferred East Cem Waverly Morgan Co IL +Mary Ann HAYS b: 01 Mar 1840 in IL d: 26 Aug 1892 m: 03 Mar 1859 Fact 2: Buried Jones Cem transferred East Cem Waverly Morgan Co IL Father: Eli HAYS Mother: Ellen "Nellie" HURLEY Lutisha Ellin JONES b: 30 Jan 1860 d: 25 Oct 1861 John W JONES b: 17 Sep 1861 d: 29 May 1933 in Edgar NE +Hattie (Bonk??) ANDERTON m: 27 Apr 1881 in Waverly Morgan Co IL Mary Elizabeth JONES b: 02 Apr 1866 d: 19 May 1867 Robert Walton JONES b: 16 Jul 1867 d: 07 May 1887 Edward Lesley JONES b: 16 Mar 1869 d: 1920-1930 in Grand Island NE +Alice BORLIN Martha Ann JONES b: 20 Jan 1872 d: 30 Jun 1891 +Frank JOLLY Elah Elmer JONES b: 20 Oct 1874 d: 17 Mar 1942 in Montrose MO +Daisy JOLLY m: 05 Mar 1902 in Waverly Morgan Co IL [1] Elizabeth "Liz" HAYS b: 23 Dec 1847 in IL d: 02 Jun 1930 Fact 2: 04 Jun 1930 Buried Union Chapel Cem N Otter Twp Macoupin Co IL +Alexander SANFORD m: 14 Jun 1866 in Macoupin Co IL Eva Maude "Maude" SANFORD b: 23 Dec 1868 d: 1889 Fact 2: Buried Union Chapel Cem N Otter Twp Macoupin Co IL *2nd Husband of [1] Elizabeth "Liz" HAYS: +Elah "Ely" JONES b: 08 Mar 1837 in Waverly Morgan Co IL d: 08 Nov 1900 m: Aft. Aug 1892 Fact 2: Buried Jones Cem transferred East Cem Waverly Morgan Co IL Father: Robert Augustus JONES Mother: Letitia (Lutisha) Ann ENGLAND Thanks for any information anyone might have. Gloria ------------------ Gloria Frazier DE>IL-Coverdill IN>IL-Hays KY>IL-Nash/Oller/Shipp KY>MO-Frazier/Morrison/Ragland/Upton/Hamilton KY>Hord TN>IL-Adcock/Carter/Sutton/Richards/Warren/Wingo TN-Baseye Thrasher

Hi everyone! This is my first post to the list and thought I'd start with the surnames I'm searching for. Jarman - Henry Jarman born in 1788 in Tyrell Co.,NC. He married Keziah Sawyer 26 OCT 1829 in Tyrell Co.,NC. He died in 1858 in Macoupin Co.,IL. They had a daughter Phoebe Jarman b.15 APR 1852 in Macoupin Co.,IL. Phoebe married Williamson Sexton 22 DEC 1870 in Macoupin Co.,IL. Williamson Sexton was born 18 JUN 1848 in Macoupin Co.,IL. He was the son of Samuel Sexton and Mary Mize. Mary Mize was the daughter of Obadiah Mize b. 1800 in NC, d. 1870 in Macoupin Co.,IL. The names I as searching for are JARMAN, MIZE, SEXTON, SAWYER. Would love to hear from anyone else researching these lines. Thanks for your time Kris Adcock captkrew@fgi.net