Hi Joanne, Just one idea here, which may or may not pay off. You might consider writing to the County Clerk of both Madison & Macoupin counties, and ask if they have probate records for your Jesse B. EDWARDS. Since you have his year of death, that should not be a problem for them to check. Probate is always done in the county wherein the person died, so if he was visiting his Aunt Mamie in Alaska, you won't find at home, but Madison and Macoupin should be able to tell you if they have his records. As for his wife, with no death year, that could be a bit more complicated, but ask anyway! I don't know what sort of cost they would ask, maybe nothing for the records check, and a few bucks if they find the records, but I've done such things elsewhere and it's never exhorbitant. Also I've always gotten a response within a couple weeks or so, rather than getting stuck waiting for months. The Midwest counties have always been very friendly to me. I'm sorry I don't have the addresses for the Macoupin or Madison county clerks handy, but they should not be hard to find, probably on the respective GenWeb pages. So give that probate search a shot, and hopefully you will get lucky with one county or the other. Happy hunting! Gloria Atwater At 10:30 AM 3/20/99 -0800, you wrote: >Hello! >I am loking for the burial place of Jesse B. EDWARDS born 1811 and died >1869 in either Madison or Mccoupin County, IL. Also of his wife, >Angeline (Smith) EDWARDS, born abt 1816. Don't have any date of death >for her. > >They were both natives of Scioto County, OHIO, and lived in Iroquois >County, IL before moving to the Madison/Macoupin Counties area between >1860 and 1869. > >Records are conflicting as to which county they resided. Outside of >purchasing about 100 cemetery books and looking for them, I do not know >what to do to find them. Any suggestions?

Hello! I am loking for the burial place of Jesse B. EDWARDS born 1811 and died 1869 in either Madison or Mccoupin County, IL. Also of his wife, Angeline (Smith) EDWARDS, born abt 1816. Don't have any date of death for her. They were both natives of Scioto County, OHIO, and lived in Iroquois County, IL before moving to the Madison/Macoupin Counties area between 1860 and 1869. Records are conflicting as to which county they resided. Outside of purchasing about 100 cemetery books and looking for them, I do not know what to do to find them. Any suggestions? I can't find Angeline on the 1870 US census, although copies are so faded I really don't have much of a chance! Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! Joanne in CA at erictem@earthlink.net

1957 Staunton Star-Times Obit index - Part 2 Fahrenkrog, Esther Fanti *, Viola Ferguson, Jennie Fisher, Bertha Fletcher, Miss Elizabeth Fletcher *, Ida V. Flory, Sophia Frame *, Nellie France, Clarence Francy *, Nora Funderburk *, Nora Geiger *, Emile Marie Genczo *, Elizabeth Genteman *, Constant Goehlich, Ferdinand Goslin *, Mary Grega, Joseph Grieme, Kathleen Sue Gross, Frederick Paul Gueltig, Rose Pauline Gulay, Marie Gusky *, Louise Gwyn, John W. Hagen, Amelia Hannig *, Ernestine Hartnett, John J. Hefer, Sophie Heineke *, Emma Heinz, Herman Hemphill, Victor H. Henke, Otto Hess, Christina Hicks *, Nellie Hiffman *, Anna Hill, Isabella Hiller, Emile Marie Holjevic, Barbara Hossu, Elizabeth Hurley *, Anna Iler, Ida J. Immenroth, Mary L. Janezic *, Martina Johnson, Edna Jones, Anna Jones, Cora Jones, James Marion Jones, Mathas "Matt" Kalika, John Kassner, Ernestine Kimak, Andrew King, Albert E. Klein *, Jennie Klinefelter, Engenia Klock, Thomas E. Krause, Alvina Kuba, Mary Kurz *, Emma

To the Macoupin Co List, Finally found time to post the index for 1957-1958 issues of the Staunton Star-Times. This time I will be only posting the names. It will be in 8 parts...4 parts for 1957 & 4 parts for 1958...starting today. If any one is interested in any of these names they can email me privately at: sjmiley@ckt.net. and request more info: Birth & death dates on most of these...other info available might include (if it was available in obit): Spouse, marriage date, cemetery, & funeral home or where services were held, parents, & if there were children or siblings listed in obit. Some of these obits just gave age at death (yr, mo, da) instead of date of birth so in order to have a birthdate, I used a birthdate calculator on the Internet to come up with birthdate. This 'might' cause the 'day' of birth to be off by 1 day. If the obit gave the age as # of years old only, the birthdate will be listed as: Abt (then approximate yr of birth). If you see 'N/G' in the place of the birthdate, that means the age was not given in the obit. Also, if the female was married, the index will include both her maiden & married name. The '*' after the surname denotes her married name. 1957 Staunton Star Times Obituaries Index - Part 1: Adam, Annie M. Adams, Ida V. Ahrens, Mary Allen *, Lillian Allen *, Mary Arnold, Everett E. Augustine, John Sr. Banyal, John Barney Baruxen, Gus Bauer, George Bedenk, Anton F. Jr. Bednar, Pauline Behrendt, Frieda Bennett *, Sophia Bentrup, William H. Bien, John Bird, William Harold "Sonny" Birdsell *, Emma K. Birmingham, James E. Bishop, Arthur A. Bof, Albina Bond, Effie Pearl Bond, William L. Boster, Jerry M. Bowermaster, James Brauer, Edwin C. Brennan, William J. Bronskole *, Katherine Bruce *, Maude Brunnworth, Fred Buhrmester, Emma Cadorin, Joe Carr, Margaret Cocce, Eugenia Cokinos *, Emma Coleman *, Mathilda Comfere *, Anna Conroy *, Amelia Cool *, Ida J. Coss *, Rose Courtney, Cora E. Dalhaus, Elmer F. Dammann, Bert Dammann, Laura D. DeGuire, JamesWilliam Jr Deppe, Walter DeTomasi *, Eugenia Dona, Constant Duda *, Maria Dustman *, Christina Early *, Rose Pauline Eccher, Albert Eccher, Teresa Eller, Thomas Preston "Press" Emrich *, Minnie

Seeking information about my great grandfather, John M. Brennell and his wife Louisa Furry. Their son John Roscoe Brennell was a linotype operator and worked for a Carlinville newspaper around the turn of the century. Louisa's mother and siblings also lived in Carlinville a while, but we're still trying to find out where most of em are buried and where they lived after Carlinville. Louisa went to East Chicago, Indiana with her children, where her daughter, Eliza Brennell, wed Walter Stratford. The Furry family came from Thedford, Ontario sometime during or just after the Civil War. Sylvester and Nelson Furry served in the union Cavalry and Infantry, and John M. Brennell in the Navy. Sylvester, Hiram, Nelson and Susan Furry went to Byers, Kansas, where they remained. Alfred, Albert, Ira, Oliver, Jane, Sarah and their parents Jesse and Eliza Furry seem to just dissapear after 1870's census in Macoupin County. Thanks, Ellan West

Mr. Windsor, I would like to set the record straight. You say: "Now you are to publish your family history on Ancestry.com and Family Tree Maker, and they have a small clause that says they sell the copies and keep the profits." That is simply not true with respect to Ancestry.com The Ancestry.com "small clause" actually says: "Ancestry.com will never sell, rent, or in any way charge for access to the information you have submitted in any form." (http://www.ancestry.com/worldtree/subagreement.htm) As to ownership, Ancestry.com is a small, private corporation. The majority interest is held by a small group of individuals who personally manage the company. CMGI and Wasatch Associates, two Internet venture capital companies, and Intel Corp. have recently made minority investments, but are not involved in day-to-day management. I cannot speak to the ownership or policies of Family Tree Maker, but I can assure you that there is no connection between Family Tree Maker and Ancestry.com. John M. Scroggins Director of Electronic Records Ancestry.com > -----Original Message----- > From: James Windsor [mailto:windsor@sirius.com] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 1999 1:30 PM > To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] Family Tree Maker, Ancestry etc. > > > Frankly I am tired of seeing big and getting bigger business getting > bigger and richer. Who owns Family Tree Maker anyway, isn't it AT&T or > some big company. And who will own Family Tree Maker and Ancestry.com > tomorrow, the Goodyear Tire Company or an italian firm that > makes freeze > dried zucchini among other things in its $10,000,000,000 a > year empire. > Ancestors are getting to be another product not much different than > selling Madonna's latest record or a container of cottage cheese. > In old days you yourself got, or had, published your family > history and > sold the copies kept the profits if any or GAVE THE COPIES > AWAY. Now you > are to publish your family history on Ancestry.com and Family Tree > Maker, and they have a small clause that says they sell the copies and > keep the profits. Well render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars, but I > am so sick of marketing everything. I wish we could go back > to the days > when the county clerk would look up something for you and > even include a > personal note in the reply. It used to be like that and we were a lot > happier then. > > JW > > > ==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== > Difference between ILMACOUP-L and ILMACOUP-D: > ILMACOUP-L mailing list allows you to receive every posting > made to ILMACOUP as a separate email. > ILMACOUP-D mailing list allows you to receive several > postings as a single large message. >

Frankly I am tired of seeing big and getting bigger business getting bigger and richer. Who owns Family Tree Maker anyway, isn't it AT&T or some big company. And who will own Family Tree Maker and Ancestry.com tomorrow, the Goodyear Tire Company or an italian firm that makes freeze dried zucchini among other things in its $10,000,000,000 a year empire. Ancestors are getting to be another product not much different than selling Madonna's latest record or a container of cottage cheese. In old days you yourself got, or had, published your family history and sold the copies kept the profits if any or GAVE THE COPIES AWAY. Now you are to publish your family history on Ancestry.com and Family Tree Maker, and they have a small clause that says they sell the copies and keep the profits. Well render unto Ceasar that which is Ceasars, but I am so sick of marketing everything. I wish we could go back to the days when the county clerk would look up something for you and even include a personal note in the reply. It used to be like that and we were a lot happier then. JW

GF> A side note: In fact, the best dream I could have is if a company GF> like yours would go to Macoupin County or any county and offer them GF> a very goodly sum of money for all the pre 1925 records in the dome GF> which are rotting and then the pre 1925 records in the offices and GF> I could buy them on CD. I don't think anybody, except perhaps the LDS church, has the financial resources to do this on any large scale. The current scanning and conversion technology is such that microfilming is a more cost-effective solution to dealing with older records today, particularly "rotting" ones, although the situation may change over the next 1 to 5 years. Ancestry is looking at ways of scanning more original records, but this "dream" of putting large quantities of old records on CD or online is probably still off in the future. I would also note that there are government officials, at all levels (and including some of my former bosses), who don't want help solving such problems and create as many roadblocks as possible to prevent outsiders from helping them. Ancestry does recognize the problems of preserving and making available records in county courthouses and like places. Loretto (Lou) Szucs, our vice president of publishing, and I discuss this frequently. Lou once worked for me in NARA's Chicago region, she has been a member of the Illinois State Historical Records Advisory Board, and she is currently the membership vice president of the Federation of Genealogical Societies. We have both discussed preservation issues with John Daly, director of the Illinois State Archives, and will be publishing an article by him in an upcoming issue of Ancestry Magazine. Dr. Daly recognizes, as I did when I was at the National Archives, that genealogists pay the bills, both for archival institutions and for county clerks. I found the genealogical community to be a potent political force when properly mobilized--that's how the National Archives got money to make census microfilm widely available and got its independence from the General Services Administration. Personally, I don't think that money is the major problem in dealing with issues like pre-1925 records in the dome. It may be a contributing factor, but many, many local records custodians around the country have found tax money, or foundation or government grant money, or have made commercial deals to preserve their records. I think the real problem is elected officials who are not motivated to try. Some may be ignorant of the resources that are available, and others may be anti-constituent and getting away with it, but the right combination of education, publicity, and good old-fashioned political heat can work wonders. I don't think Ancestry, or any commercial firm, can take the lead in mobilizing genealogists to lobby for better records access and preservation, but we can provide a forum for local and national societies to better communicate with each other and with Dr. Daly and his colleagues in other states. I don't know how many of you followed the fight last summer over NARA's plan to close several regional archives. The first person to blow the whistle on NARA was Lou Szucs, in an editorial in Ancestry Magazine. While I don't think she would want to single out any specific city or county for criticism, I'm sure she would welcome a well written article with a well thought out strategy for motivating local officials to live up to their responsibilities, or an article relating a local success story as a case study in how to get such results. In short, Ancestry can't grant Gloria's dream, but there are probably things we can do to help. John M. Scroggins Director of Electronic Records Ancestry.com

GF> You have to admit that you and your company are making a dime. Yes, Ancestry.com is "making a dime." In fact, Ancestry is one of the few Internet companies that does make money. Ancestry began as a publishing company over 15 years ago and started the web site as a supplement to the publishing business. Until recently, most of the data that required a subscription on Ancestry's site was the kind of data that Ancestry and competitors have been selling in book or journal form for decades--books and journals that genealogists, or the libraries they use, have been purchasing all that time. I do believe that we give good value for the money. I know some, perhaps many, people will disagree, especially if their particular research interests are not well served by what we have currently online. I don't have to work full-time, I have turned down other offers, and I would not stay with Ancestry if I thought the company was ripping people off. GF> And you have to admit that I am not making money so I don't GF> have a penny for a lawsuit against you and your company GF> which makes it easier for your company to use my data without GF> asking me. So, companies can use any excuse needed to squelch me. Yes, I admit that you are not making money and don't have a penny for a lawsuit, But I don't know why you would want to sue us. I can't speak to what other companies do, but I think Ancestry has a good record of fair dealing on data and intellectual property, whether on the print side or the electronic data side, and whether it is data that we pay for or data that is contributed for free, as in the case of the Gedcom files posted on the World Tree. I'll say more about the World Tree in a later message, but you might want to look at the submitter agreement at http://www.ancestry.com/worldtree/subagreement.htm. We do not claim ownership of the data, we agree not to sell it, and we only claim copyright in the compilation in order to prevent others from downloading the whole site and using it without the permission of either the submitter or Ancestry. I will admit that our record is not absolutely spotless. We did make a mistake in one significant case back in October. As soon as Ancestry's management realized what had happened, we removed the data in question, made amends to the originating society, and tightened up procedures in order to avoid future mistakes. It is very unlikely that we would sue anybody, especially an individual. The company's mission is to make information widely available at a fair price. Suing people is not likely to contribute to that goal. And our vice president for legal affairs is a former LDS church attorney with a background in making the genealogical resources widely available. > Unless someone requests more family info from me because I > supposedly submitted data to a company or they send me to Ancestry > or FTM or another business site, I don't have time to check them out. > > I really want to say here, ahhhh, my time is spent spending > hundreds of dollars to put free censuses, births, rosters, etc on > the Macoupin page, but I won't. I could have made my money back by > selling all this information to Macoupin researchers. Anyway, as > long as I don't think about making money, it doesn't bother me. I think this supports my point that there is a cost involved in all data on the web (or in print). With the work you have done, you have chosen to bear the cost yourself, thus subsidizing the end user. I have made the results of my own personal research freely available to people without any thought of selling it. And in my work at the National Archives I coordinated many, many projects that used volunteers to index or do preservation work on records in the regional archives. Many people see the results of that as being "free," but there were substantial costs. The volunteers themselves bore the cost of the labor, and you paid for the supplies and the administrative direction every April 15. Ancestry does not have tax revenue to pay for costs up front, generally does not have volunteer labor, and must charge to recover the costs of acquiring data and running the business. However, as I pointed out in an earlier message, Ancestry does post data for free access when it is contributed by individuals or societies. In fact, Ancestry's most searched databases are free. And Ancestry's search engine does add value to contributed databases by making it possible to search hundreds, soon thousands, of individual databases at one time. More will follow, either later today or early tomorrow.

GF> If, John, we, on the other side of the coin, can help get Ancestry GF> in line with our desires and your company can be an example for the GF> other companies then let's thread this for a bit with your GF> answer/rebuttal here. OK, I'll try to reply point by point. I'll spread my answer out over several messages (not all at once), and I'll only quote the parts I'm responding to in each message so that I don't sent this whole thread to the list over and over again. For purposes of introduction, I'll state that (1) I have been employed by Ancestry.com for just under a year. (2) I was on the staff of the National Archives for over 35 years, most of that in management positions. During that time I created NARA's regional archives system and ran it for over 13 years, I managed the development of NARA's first automated system for controlling the records in the 70's, I ran the NARA microfilm program in the late 60's, and I worked at both personnel records center buildings in St. Louis in 1962 and 63. (3) I have roots in Macoupin and Madison counties and spent time in the records in both courthouses and walking through cemeteries during several visits to the area around 1970. John M. Scroggins Director of Electronic Records Ancestry.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Gloria Frazier [mailto:glofra@townsqr.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 12:54 PM > To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [ILMACOUP-L] FYI - Ancestry Reply > Importance: High > > > If, John, we, on the other side of the coin, can help get Ancestry > in line with our desires and your company can be an example for the > other companies then let's thread this for a bit with your > answer/rebuttal here. You have to admit that you and your company > are making a dime. And you have to admit that I am not making money > so I don't have a penny for a lawsuit against you and your company > which makes it easier for your company to use my data without > asking me. So, companies can use any excuse needed to squelch me. > > Unless someone requests more family info from me because I > supposedly submitted data to a company or they send me to Ancestry > or FTM or another business site, I don't have time to check them out. > > I really want to say here, ahhhh, my time is spent spending > hundreds of dollars to put free censuses, births, rosters, etc on > the Macoupin page, but I won't. I could have made my money back by > selling all this information to Macoupin researchers. Anyway, as > long as I don't think about making money, it doesn't bother me. > > A side note: In fact, the best dream I could have is if a company > like yours would go to Macoupin County or any county and offer them > a very goodly sum of money for all the pre 1925 records in the dome > which are rotting and then the pre 1925 records in the offices and > I could buy them on CD. > > I definitely do not mind at all buying CDs with data from archives, > court records, or even proven data. I certainly do not like the CD > comeons where you only get a sort of sampling of data from areas. I > call that using the consumer. > > By proven data I mean if a date is there, reference the date of > marriage, death, birth, Bible, will, tombstone record with a > book/page/cemetery number/name then we know what weight to put on > the proof knowing well that no data is fullproof. > > A submitter to your company sends in data. Do you not put an > obvious/large title on each submitted tree when the data shows no > proof such as I mentioned above? > > A submitter of data to your company gives my name as a reference. > My "pain" comes from finding out my first/inital set of research > data with all the errors and I know the data has been sent in by a > person who did not ask me/I would have never dreamed but who could > have only gotten their information from me. The submitter doesn't > have to answer anyone. It is me, the OTHER name on the data, the > OTHER name with the incorrect data, who has to answer. Don't you > think this is a little embarassing for myself?? > > And, my name has been put on the data by another submitter, but no > piece of data has a note/asterisk/footnote that a name/date has not > been proven by me. > > And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why any living name or > living date needs to be put in the public arena. Researchers and > companies should know that is just plain common courtesy in > genealogy not to use living names or dates for public eyes. > > Ima thinkin there has to be a better deal without stifling the > exchange of genealogy research data without a bunch of > combativeness between parties. The actions of CD companies has cut > my sharing down to about a third of what I would normally have done > if my input had been allowed along with the submitter who used my > information and my name without my knowledge. Isn't it illegal to > use my name if I didn't wish it without my permission? > > Gloria > > > At 10:10 AM 3/17/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Thank you. I don't really want to try to push Ancestry in > >non-commercial environments, but I get irritated when people > accuse us > >of things we do not do. > > > >FYI, Ancestry will be adding more non-subscription services and > content > >soon. I'd call them "free", but there really is no "free" > >data--somebody pays for everything, whether by paying for > subscriptions > >or individual searches, by making cash donations, by paying taxes, by > >reading ads, or by donating labor. In the latter case it's the > >originator who pays, not the end user, but there is still a cost > >involved somewhere along the line. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gloria Frazier [mailto:glofra@townsqr.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 9:16 AM > >> To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] FYI - Ancestry Reply > >> Importance: High > >> > >> > >> From: "John M. Scroggins" <scroggjm@erols.com> > >> To: "Jack Cox" <jack_cox@kc.net>, <MADMANSMON@aol.com>, > >> "Gloria Frazier" <glofra@townsqr.com> > >> Subject: RE: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers > >> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:00:11 -0500 > >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 > >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 > >> Importance: Normal > >> > >> Gloria: Since this could be construed as a commercial message, > I'll > >> leave it up to you whether to put it on the list to correct the > >> mistaken > >> impression that Ancestry.com sells CD's with user-contributed > files. > >> > >> Contrary to what Mr. Cox and Mary (MADMANSMOM@aol.com) imply, > >> Ancestry.com does NOT sell family tree information on CD's and does > >> NOT > >> charge for access to such information users post in order to share > >> with > >> other users. > >> > >> Gedcom files submitted to Ancestry.com by users are freely > >> available to > >> all visitors to the site without subscription; they are not put on > >> CD's; > >> and the data is not sold to anybody and never will be. > Ancestry.com > >> both makes it easy to contact the submitter directly by providing > >> email > >> addresses, but no personal information. And Ancestry.com makes it > >> easy > >> for a user to withdraw a file at any time for any reason (as was > >> recently done by another Scroggin researcher who plans to update > his > >> large, well documented file that includes information about a few > >> early > >> Macoupin County settlers). > >> > >> Most of the CD's produced by Ancestry.com for sale are searchable > >> copies > >> of standard reference books ("The Source," "Ancestry's Red > Book," "The > >> Library," "The Library of Congress," the Allen County Public > Library's > >> "PERiodical Source Index," etc.), not family tree information. > >> > >> Most of Ancestry.com's subscription databases are ones for which > there > >> was a substantial conversion cost and/or a need to compensate the > >> copyright owner. As a result, there is a growing amount of > >> information > >> online that simply wouldn't be there otherwise. > >> > >> Ancestry.com does post large amounts of information that is freely > >> available without subscription and will continue to do so. And > >> Ancestry.com will make user-contributed data available for free if > >> there > >> is no purchase or conversion cost. > >> > >> John M. Scroggins > >> Director of Electronic Records > >> Ancestry.com > >> Subscriber to ILMACOUP-L > >> (Scroggins, Gaskill, Tatum in Macoupin and Madison before 1856) > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- > >> > From: Jack Cox [mailto:jack_cox@kc.net] > >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:28 PM > >> > To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com > >> > Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers > >> > > >> > > >> > I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information > >> > up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and > >> > Family Tree Maker. All of these CD makers encourage you to > >> > post your information in order to "share" it with other > >> > researchers. If it was sharing, they wouldn't be charging > >> > what they do for the disks. I don't begrudge them a profit, > >> > but earning money on my hard earned information - > >> > particularly after I shelled out the money for their > >> > software - seems a bit off center to me. > >> > > >> > I see a real problem here. If we don't share our > >> > information, then how will we continue to help the other > >> > researchers out there? On the other hand, if we do share, > >> > our information can be misused, and at best will lead people > >> > down the wrong path. > >> > > >> > Personally, I have never bought a CD from any of the family > >> > tree program companies. I have looked at their info when > >> > they have "free" promotions, but have found little that > >> > hellps me, and unfortunately, the "proofs" are very thin and > >> > usually nonexistant. Unfortunately, I have even found many > >> > serious errors in the information provided by LDS. > >> > > >> > I do, on occasion, add information to my "cousins" part of > >> > the tree without complete verification - at least from > >> > people I trust, and if there are enough clues to indicate a > >> > probable fit. However, if no annotation of source is > >> > included, I take it as unproven. > >> > > >> > My recommendation . . . don't post information you have > >> > gotten from others without their permission, and never post > >> > it without credit. Posting unproven data is probably the > >> > worst idea of all. > >> > > >> > I have long had a personal rule that I will never "post up" > >> > my information to one of the "CD" sites. However, I will go > >> > out of my way to share information with anyone who needs > >> > help. > >> > > >> > My two cents worth . . . > >> > > >> > Jack Cox > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: MADMANSMOM@aol.com [mailto:MADMANSMOM@aol.com] > >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 12:20 AM > >> To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com > >> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 99-03-16 21:35:48 EST, you write: > >> > >> << I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information > >> up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and > >> Family Tree Maker. >> > >> I agree with both Jack and Gloria. The only good thing I see about > >> FTM > >> and > >> Ancestry is that maybe someone will purchase the CDs and happen > to be > >> connected to you and then contact you to share and update the > >> information. > >> Maybe that is a dreamers attitude. Mary > >> > >> > >> > >> ==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== > >> Difference between ILMACOUP-L and ILMACOUP-D: > >> ILMACOUP-L mailing list allows you to receive every posting > >> made to ILMACOUP as a separate email. > >> ILMACOUP-D mailing list allows you to receive several > >> postings as a single large message. > >> > > > > > > > ------------------ > Gloria Frazier > Macoupin County ILGenWeb County Coordinator > http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/macoupin.htm > > > ==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from ILMACOUP-L-request@rootsweb.com, send a message to > ILMACOUP-L-request@rootsweb.com > that contains in the body of the message the command > unsubscribe > and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your > software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, > too. AOL requires a subject line. >

Contact me, Gloria Frazier <glofra@townsqr.com>, for proofreading 1860 Macoupin Census pages. The recently typed pages are uploaded on the Macoupin page. I will send you, via email, jpg attachments of the original pages from Littleton Bradley's transcribed publication. (Boy, sending out 555 jpgs could get frustrating as my isp has changed hands in the last couple of months and slower than molasses. Could add "10,000" phone lines at our isp and don't think it would be enough down there. <sorta grin>) Since there are 555 pages to proofread, I would prefer sending out 10 jpgs at a time (one to an email) BUT if you are not sure you really really want to proofread, PLEASE just take a couple of pages, proofread them and then decide if you would like 10 more pages at a time. Pages should be proofread in a week after you receive them. Ok, if we had about 50 people (out of the 230 plus) off of this maillist to volunteer, it wouldn't take long to get the 555 pages of the 1860 census proofread. We would like to have a set of proofreaders which do not include the typists. Need to give the typists a break. But, typists, if you volunteer, ask for pages other than those you typed. Just FYI - this transcription is in alphabetical order. After the proofreading is completed, I intend, hopefully, to do a sort to put the entries back into family/census taker order. Thanks to anyone who can help with the proofreading of the 1860 Macoupin County Census. Gloria

My two cents: Without arguing the legality, or senimentality of the issues, I think we are missing one important possibility: the future! At some point, in the tomorrows, some person will use those CDs / websites to plug in a new fact that he / she has discovered. This future researcher will be grateful to complete a link, or tree, or branch, and to US for this unselfish, or maybe unknowing release, of our hard work. The future generations will probably view "paper" as novel and cumbersome. They will use CDs and websites for things not even imagine now. Another possibility is some sort of future calamity. What if a flood or wind destroyed all your hard work? These CDs and websites make it much easier to rebuild information even though it may be flawed or otherwise less than perfect. No, I don't like many of the things that they do but, so far, it's the best system yet. Sure, they make $$ but they will spend lots more protecting their investment and thus provide for future genealogy research. Just be selective and responsible about what you post and share. Our exchange of ideas of how these sites should behave also provides them with what they can expect in the future - a good thing. Tom Gloria Frazier wrote: > If, John, we, on the other side of the coin, can help get Ancestry > in line with our desires snipped

CHAPMAN, Anna b. 1849 or 1850 IL. Have no idea what county, but not Winnebago. Also may be listed as Rhoda Ann. Any help will be greatly appreciated.Thanks and blessings!

Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done!Typing Done! Typing Done!Typing Done! Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You! Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You!Thank You! A huge Thank You to all of the typists: Gwen Chaar <acre@sprynet.com> Gerry Clark <Larry.Clark@earthling.net> Larry Clark <Larry.Clark@earthling.net> (Scanner 555 pages) Jack Cox <jack_cox@kc.net> Pat Crouse <crouselp@hsonline.net> Debi Faris <df620@gate.net> Marlene Bates Johnson <empori6573@aol.com> Sue Landers <SusanL8385@aol.com> Sue McMurry <sumcm@worldnet.att.net> Reba Mathis <rmathis@edwpub.com> Pam Monroe <PAMILAM@aol.com> Charles Neff <cneff@oh.verio.com> Richard Neumann <neumannr@gte.net> Yvonne Stedman <stedman@westsound.com> Mark Strohbeck <strohbmw@wt.net> Please let the 1860 Macoupin County Census typists know that we all appreciate their hard work. Thank you typists. We wouldn't have done it without you. Gloria

FYI gf -------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 18:01:15 -0500 Old-To: FRAZIER-L@rootsweb.com From: "Brian K. Caudill" <bcaudill@metrolink.net> Subject: Re: Did you send my unproven information to Resent-From: FRAZIER-L@rootsweb.com To: FRAZIER-L@rootsweb.com At 11:37 PM 3/16/99 -0600, Gloria Frazier wrote: >I believe Family Tree Maker, if you have a homepage at their >site, they consider your information to be theirs. I think in >fine print. Correct me if I am wrong. The fine print can be found on the Family Treemaker "User Home Page Agreement of Use" Web Page at http://www.familytreemaker.com/uhpagree.html. The real "gotcha" is located under the heading "Ownership and Rights to Use Materials" about half-way down the page. It reads as follows: "Ownership and Rights to Use Materials" You represent that you are the sole owner of all rights in Materials posted by you (including all related copyrights) or that you have the absolute right to license their use as provided in this section. While you will retain ownership of the copyright in the Materials posted by you, you agree that all Materials posted by you shall become part of a database in the User Home Pages, and that we will own the compilation copyright in that database. In addition, you hereby grant us a perpetual, worldwide, irrevocable license to use, reproduce, modify, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such Materials, any portions of such Materials and any derivative works created from such Materials, in print, electronic and other media, by any means now known or developed in the future. We may sublicense all of our rights and licenses or assign them to third parties. Neither we nor any third party using the Materials in accordance with this section will be obligated to pay you any royalties or other compensation for use of the Materials. I wonder how many people actually read this before creating their Family Treemaker Home Page. By the way, my Family Treemaker Home Page is at http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/c/a/u/Brian-K-Caudill/index.html. :) It contains a Descendant Report for my Frazier line (Solomon Frazier). I read the "User Home Page Agreement of Use" before creating my FTM Home Page, and I must say that I was a little apprehensive about it. For all the good it will do, I included a NOTICE at the bottom of my Home Page which states, "The information contained in the following Reports should only be used as a guideline in your research and not taken as proven fact. If you have any corrections or additions to the information contained in the following Reports, please send them to me." Brian K. Caudill Malabar, FL Visit my Letcher County, KY, Genealogy Web Page at http://webpages.metrolink.net/~bcaudill/kygenweb/letcher.htm

i got this off one of my other lists-thought it might be of interest to others rindy >Resent-Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 11:49:36 -0800 (PST) >From: "Deborah Byrd" <dbyrd@lightcom.net> >Old-To: "Leola Starling" <LeolaStar@aol.com>, <SHOLAR-L@rootsweb.com>, > <SCSUMTER-L@rootsweb.com>, <SCROOTS-L@rootsweb.com>, > "SC-OLD-PENDLETON-DIST-L-request@rootsweb.com" ><SC-OLD-PENDLETON-DIST-L@rootsweb.com>, > <SCDARLIN-L@rootsweb.com>, <RITTER-L@rootsweb.com>, > <MSJACKSO-L@rootsweb.com>, <lowcountry@rune.org>, > <LANGSTON-L@rootsweb.com>, <LAMBERT-L@rootsweb.com>, > <GASCREVE-L@rootsweb.com>, <GAFLOYD-L@rootsweb.com>, > <GACOLUMB-L@rootsweb.com>, "Florida Listserv" ><FLORIDA-L@rootsweb.com>, > <FLHERNAN-L@rootsweb.com>, <FLHAMILT-L@rootsweb.com>, > <DUNN-L@rootsweb.com>, <BAISDEN-L@rootsweb.com>, > <ALHENRY-L@rootsweb.com>, <ALAUTAUG-L@rootsweb.com> >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 12:49:04 -0700 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Priority: 3 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 >Subject: [DUNN-L] Fw: [GA] LDS Website Info >To: DUNN-L@rootsweb.com >Resent-From: DUNN-L@rootsweb.com >Reply-To: DUNN-L@rootsweb.com >X-Mailing-List: <DUNN-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/1228 >X-Loop: DUNN-L@rootsweb.com >Precedence: list >Resent-Sender: DUNN-L-request@rootsweb.com > >I am passing this on to the various lists I am on or manage. Hope this >helps. > >Deborah byrd > >> >>This Should Answer Question About LDS SEARCH >> >> >>Hello Fellow Researchers, >> >>I have been bombarded with questions on the Family Search Website and >> would >>like to pass on to you the information I received when I spoke to an >>"Official" Church >>spokesperson at Family Search. >> >>He advised me of the following: >> >>The OFFICIAL LDS Church website is LDS.ORG >> >>Go to media resources and find News update. >> >>The church is posting updates as they come in as to the state of the >>family >>search. >> >>Within 3 or 4 minutes of the NEWS UPDATE ANNOUNCING the FAMILY SEARCH >>is online. They will post it THERE! SO Keep checking. Should be a >>couple of >>days. >> >>It will be a MASSIVE SITE. They are prepared to test this site using >>anyone >>who wishes to go to it and use it. THERE WILL BE NO PASSWORD TO >> ACCESS IT. >> >>The rumor about the password was incorrect. When the site was put up >>it was >>restricted to a few....about 100 people who designed it and are >>putting the >>finishing touches on it, someone there LEAKED, YES LEAKED, (AN >>EMPLOYEE) and >>that is why some of you got in. When the masses bombarded the site >>it crashed >>cause it was not finished. They have now given each worker an >>INDIVIDUAL >>PASSWORD, >>SOOOOO IF it gets leaked again they will know who did it. It has >>been >>postponed >>being put online a few days because of the crash. >> >>There are now about 12 popular stories going around about Family >>Search. I >>ASSURE YOU MINE CAME FROM A CHURCH SPOKESMAN. >> >>IF you pass information about the site on to others please just send >>them this >>message I have sent you. The whole message. >> >>Now please remember this. >> >>1. Go to LDS.org >>2. Find Media Resources >>3. Check News Updates >> >>That will inform you when it is going online. Please notify everyone >>you know >>who will be interested. >> >>I hope this helps you all. You have my permission to pass this note >>on >>to any Genealogy Lists you wish. Again, Please pass the whole note >>not >>just sections of it or we will have more rumors. >> >> >> > > > >==== DUNN Mailing List ==== >Please support the Rootsweb Genealogical Cooperative by becoming a member, >sponsor, or donor. For more information, visit Rootsweb at >http://www.rootsweb.com > Durenda (Rindy) Fuchs 304 Missouri Ave Carterville, IL 62918-1810 Ph. 618 985 8365

If, John, we, on the other side of the coin, can help get Ancestry in line with our desires and your company can be an example for the other companies then let's thread this for a bit with your answer/rebuttal here. You have to admit that you and your company are making a dime. And you have to admit that I am not making money so I don't have a penny for a lawsuit against you and your company which makes it easier for your company to use my data without asking me. So, companies can use any excuse needed to squelch me. Unless someone requests more family info from me because I supposedly submitted data to a company or they send me to Ancestry or FTM or another business site, I don't have time to check them out. I really want to say here, ahhhh, my time is spent spending hundreds of dollars to put free censuses, births, rosters, etc on the Macoupin page, but I won't. I could have made my money back by selling all this information to Macoupin researchers. Anyway, as long as I don't think about making money, it doesn't bother me. A side note: In fact, the best dream I could have is if a company like yours would go to Macoupin County or any county and offer them a very goodly sum of money for all the pre 1925 records in the dome which are rotting and then the pre 1925 records in the offices and I could buy them on CD. I definitely do not mind at all buying CDs with data from archives, court records, or even proven data. I certainly do not like the CD comeons where you only get a sort of sampling of data from areas. I call that using the consumer. By proven data I mean if a date is there, reference the date of marriage, death, birth, Bible, will, tombstone record with a book/page/cemetery number/name then we know what weight to put on the proof knowing well that no data is fullproof. A submitter to your company sends in data. Do you not put an obvious/large title on each submitted tree when the data shows no proof such as I mentioned above? A submitter of data to your company gives my name as a reference. My "pain" comes from finding out my first/inital set of research data with all the errors and I know the data has been sent in by a person who did not ask me/I would have never dreamed but who could have only gotten their information from me. The submitter doesn't have to answer anyone. It is me, the OTHER name on the data, the OTHER name with the incorrect data, who has to answer. Don't you think this is a little embarassing for myself?? And, my name has been put on the data by another submitter, but no piece of data has a note/asterisk/footnote that a name/date has not been proven by me. And, for the life of me, I cannot understand why any living name or living date needs to be put in the public arena. Researchers and companies should know that is just plain common courtesy in genealogy not to use living names or dates for public eyes. Ima thinkin there has to be a better deal without stifling the exchange of genealogy research data without a bunch of combativeness between parties. The actions of CD companies has cut my sharing down to about a third of what I would normally have done if my input had been allowed along with the submitter who used my information and my name without my knowledge. Isn't it illegal to use my name if I didn't wish it without my permission? Gloria At 10:10 AM 3/17/99 -0500, you wrote: >Thank you. I don't really want to try to push Ancestry in >non-commercial environments, but I get irritated when people accuse us >of things we do not do. > >FYI, Ancestry will be adding more non-subscription services and content >soon. I'd call them "free", but there really is no "free" >data--somebody pays for everything, whether by paying for subscriptions >or individual searches, by making cash donations, by paying taxes, by >reading ads, or by donating labor. In the latter case it's the >originator who pays, not the end user, but there is still a cost >involved somewhere along the line. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gloria Frazier [mailto:glofra@townsqr.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 9:16 AM >> To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] FYI - Ancestry Reply >> Importance: High >> >> >> From: "John M. Scroggins" <scroggjm@erols.com> >> To: "Jack Cox" <jack_cox@kc.net>, <MADMANSMON@aol.com>, >> "Gloria Frazier" <glofra@townsqr.com> >> Subject: RE: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers >> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:00:11 -0500 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 >> Importance: Normal >> >> Gloria: Since this could be construed as a commercial message, I'll >> leave it up to you whether to put it on the list to correct the >> mistaken >> impression that Ancestry.com sells CD's with user-contributed files. >> >> Contrary to what Mr. Cox and Mary (MADMANSMOM@aol.com) imply, >> Ancestry.com does NOT sell family tree information on CD's and does >> NOT >> charge for access to such information users post in order to share >> with >> other users. >> >> Gedcom files submitted to Ancestry.com by users are freely >> available to >> all visitors to the site without subscription; they are not put on >> CD's; >> and the data is not sold to anybody and never will be. Ancestry.com >> both makes it easy to contact the submitter directly by providing >> email >> addresses, but no personal information. And Ancestry.com makes it >> easy >> for a user to withdraw a file at any time for any reason (as was >> recently done by another Scroggin researcher who plans to update his >> large, well documented file that includes information about a few >> early >> Macoupin County settlers). >> >> Most of the CD's produced by Ancestry.com for sale are searchable >> copies >> of standard reference books ("The Source," "Ancestry's Red Book," "The >> Library," "The Library of Congress," the Allen County Public Library's >> "PERiodical Source Index," etc.), not family tree information. >> >> Most of Ancestry.com's subscription databases are ones for which there >> was a substantial conversion cost and/or a need to compensate the >> copyright owner. As a result, there is a growing amount of >> information >> online that simply wouldn't be there otherwise. >> >> Ancestry.com does post large amounts of information that is freely >> available without subscription and will continue to do so. And >> Ancestry.com will make user-contributed data available for free if >> there >> is no purchase or conversion cost. >> >> John M. Scroggins >> Director of Electronic Records >> Ancestry.com >> Subscriber to ILMACOUP-L >> (Scroggins, Gaskill, Tatum in Macoupin and Madison before 1856) >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Jack Cox [mailto:jack_cox@kc.net] >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:28 PM >> > To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com >> > Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers >> > >> > >> > I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information >> > up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and >> > Family Tree Maker. All of these CD makers encourage you to >> > post your information in order to "share" it with other >> > researchers. If it was sharing, they wouldn't be charging >> > what they do for the disks. I don't begrudge them a profit, >> > but earning money on my hard earned information - >> > particularly after I shelled out the money for their >> > software - seems a bit off center to me. >> > >> > I see a real problem here. If we don't share our >> > information, then how will we continue to help the other >> > researchers out there? On the other hand, if we do share, >> > our information can be misused, and at best will lead people >> > down the wrong path. >> > >> > Personally, I have never bought a CD from any of the family >> > tree program companies. I have looked at their info when >> > they have "free" promotions, but have found little that >> > hellps me, and unfortunately, the "proofs" are very thin and >> > usually nonexistant. Unfortunately, I have even found many >> > serious errors in the information provided by LDS. >> > >> > I do, on occasion, add information to my "cousins" part of >> > the tree without complete verification - at least from >> > people I trust, and if there are enough clues to indicate a >> > probable fit. However, if no annotation of source is >> > included, I take it as unproven. >> > >> > My recommendation . . . don't post information you have >> > gotten from others without their permission, and never post >> > it without credit. Posting unproven data is probably the >> > worst idea of all. >> > >> > I have long had a personal rule that I will never "post up" >> > my information to one of the "CD" sites. However, I will go >> > out of my way to share information with anyone who needs >> > help. >> > >> > My two cents worth . . . >> > >> > Jack Cox >> -----Original Message----- >> From: MADMANSMOM@aol.com [mailto:MADMANSMOM@aol.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 12:20 AM >> To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com >> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers >> >> >> In a message dated 99-03-16 21:35:48 EST, you write: >> >> << I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information >> up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and >> Family Tree Maker. >> >> I agree with both Jack and Gloria. The only good thing I see about >> FTM >> and >> Ancestry is that maybe someone will purchase the CDs and happen to be >> connected to you and then contact you to share and update the >> information. >> Maybe that is a dreamers attitude. Mary >> >> >> >> ==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== >> Difference between ILMACOUP-L and ILMACOUP-D: >> ILMACOUP-L mailing list allows you to receive every posting >> made to ILMACOUP as a separate email. >> ILMACOUP-D mailing list allows you to receive several >> postings as a single large message. >> > > > ------------------ Gloria Frazier Macoupin County ILGenWeb County Coordinator http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilmacoup/macoupin.htm

Didn't send original to List, so here goes: > >Been setting here reading everyone's opinion of FTM, etc. and decided I might as well get my two cents worth in, for what its worth. > >I am taking the middle ground here. I agree with Sharon's message below, that much can be found on these CD's for the genealogist just beginning or with experience of maybe 10 years or so. > >I think what bothers us "oldies" to genealogy the most, is the fact that we have more information than others and we do not want our 20 plus years of research sold, when in the back of our minds we are someday going to publish all that info. At least that is how I have always felt. Why should FTM or anyone for that matter, make a profit off of all my hard work? If one to be made, I should make it, right? > >But on the other hand, helping and sharing with others has always been our goal, even before Internet. Remember how exciting it used to be to wait for the mailman to come and see if we were going to receive that long awaited information we have been trying for years to obtain? Now the computer has taken the place of that anticipation. Free is the word most commonly used, so we object to anyone charging or making a profit. Didn't we used to offer to pay for copies, postage, etc. just to receive that information? Didn't we even offer to pay for the persons time? Even though they were kin? Just to get access to that much awaited info? I did and some people accepted those monies. > >I have a FTM page, as most of you know. To my knowledge my information has not been put on a CD yet. If anyone has the CD's past #18 and can tell me differently, I would be glad to hear about it. I did not see any "small print" stating they could use it. If someone did, please point me to it. I get queries re my FTM page almost weekly. As is the usual case, I have more than they, so have not benefited on going back in the earlier days, but I have benefited by receiving many GEDCOM files of some of these families, bringing my database closer to the present time. I like that even though I am lax on inputting it. My URL for my family page is: > ><http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/k/a/y/Mary-Ann--Kaylor> > >Someone check it out if they have the later CD's, I would like to know. I quit buying after #18, simply because I do not have the time to work on my own families. I have just finished putting the Index to Register Deaths on Jersey County ILGenWeb page which was one of several projects I have going for that County. > >So, to sum it up, I believe FTM has helped people like Sharon and like she stated, the key words are documentation. I would certainly hope that someone would document what I have put on line on my page. And I would be glad to receive any corrections with documentation. I always get a feeling of excitement when I hear of success stories like Sharon's, even though I had nothing to do with it. I remember the feeling she must have...I just don't get it much anymore. Maybe the "oldies" on snail mail could help me more <g> > >Mary Ann > >At 12:44 AM 3/17/99 -0600, you wrote: >> The only good thing I see about FTM >>> and Ancestry is that maybe someone will purchase the CDs and happen to be >>> connected to you and then contact you to share and update the information. >>> Maybe that is a dreamers attitude. Mary >>> >> >>Guess I do not think you are dreaming. I brought down one of my >>brick walls because a distant cousin posted the family on Kindred >>Konnections (a web site, similar to Ancestry). I only knew my >>Norwegian GrGrGrandmother as Bertha Thompson. There was no >>way I could trace her (you need a farm name to search in Norway). >>When I contacted that submitter, I was put in touch with not only >>other relatives, but a relative who has ALL the rest of the family >>BUT our branch, and after twenty years, she had about given up of >>there being any descentants from MY side! >> >>Because my relative posted the info on the KK site, I am now in >>contact with my genealogist cousin (who is in the process of >>writing a book on the family, and WE *were* going into the book >>as "NO descentants"), as well as two other family members, doing >>genealogy. >> >>Bertha Thompson's husbands family is on a Family Tree Maker CD >>(which I purchased), and has taken that side back over 200 years. >>I am currently in the process of verifing that information, but it is a >>lot easier to verify than it is starting from scratch. That is also >>Norwegian, and I had no farm name. >> >>I have discovered that whom I thought was my immigrant ancestor >>actually came over with her whole family, including her parents. >>And that 3 of her brothers fought in the Civil War. Knowing my >>ancestor was Bertha Thompson, I MAY have, some day, >>connected John Thompson to her (but really? Thompson?). But I >>may have gone to my grave not knowing that Bertha Thompson >>was originally Britha Trulsdatter Mael (and her brother was Johann >>Trulson Meal). Or that some of her brothers were Thompsons, >>some kept Trulson, and some even are Meals. >> >>Yes, one should verify what they get, from ANY source, other than >>the original source. But it is much easier to verify than it is to start >>from scratch (especially when you know so little). Much that I have >>received, I have already verified, and I have well over a 1,000 names >>to add to my family tree. And newly found relatives, which are >>quickly becoming friends, as well as relatives. >> >>Because of this family being posted I have recently received >>information that takes some lines back to about 100 BC. This has >>truly been the most exciting thing that has happened to me in over >>30 years of doing genealogy! >> >>Sharon Buethner >> >>PS I also have very recently received copies of photographs, visual >>descriptions (Bertha Thompson's father had deep red hair, etc.), >>Civil War photos, an actual photo copy of the first page of a church >>book that the Trulson/Thompson's joined in 1851, and copies of >>census records, birth and death certificates, etc. >> >> >> >>==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== >>To unsubscribe from ILMACOUP-D-request@rootsweb.com, send a message to >> ILMACOUP-D-request@rootsweb.com >>that contains in the body of the message the command >> unsubscribe >>and no other text. No subject line is necessary, but if your software requires one, just use unsubscribe in the subject, too. AOL requires a subject line. >> >> >> Mary Ann Kaylor County Coordinator & Mail List Manager Jersey County ILGenWeb <http://www.rootsweb.com/~iljersey/index.html> Our KAYLOR/TEDROW and STEWART/ROBISON Home page: <http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/k/a/y/Mary-Ann--Kaylor> KALER Mail List Owner <KALER-L-request@rootsweb.com>

Just wanted you to know that I am in agreement with you. I have not nor do I intend to purchase a CD. So far I have had access to good libraries and other sources of information. Also information that has come my way through lists such as this one has proved very good. I would sooner put my money into a county Genealogical Society where I have an interest and obtain information from them. This is just my input. Pat Crouse -----Original Message----- From: Jack Cox <jack_cox@kc.net> To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com <ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 11:13 PM Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers >I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information >up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and >Family Tree Maker. All of these CD makers encourage you to >post your information in order to "share" it with other >researchers. If it was sharing, they wouldn't be charging >what they do for the disks. I don't begrudge them a profit, >but earning money on my hard earned information - >particularly after I shelled out the money for their >software - seems a bit off center to me. > >I see a real problem here. If we don't share our >information, then how will we continue to help the other >researchers out there? On the other hand, if we do share, >our information can be misused, and at best will lead people >down the wrong path. > >Personally, I have never bought a CD from any of the family >tree program companies. I have looked at their info when >they have "free" promotions, but have found little that >hellps me, and unfortunately, the "proofs" are very thin and >usually nonexistant. Unfortunately, I have even found many >serious errors in the information provided by LDS. > >I do, on occasion, add information to my "cousins" part of >the tree without complete verification - at least from >people I trust, and if there are enough clues to indicate a >probable fit. However, if no annotation of source is >included, I take it as unproven. > >My recommendation . . . don't post information you have >gotten from others without their permission, and never post >it without credit. Posting unproven data is probably the >worst idea of all. > >I have long had a personal rule that I will never "post up" >my information to one of the "CD" sites. However, I will go >out of my way to share information with anyone who needs >help. > >My two cents worth . . . > >Jack Cox > > >==== ILMACOUP Mailing List ==== >Submit your Macoupin County family births, marriages, deaths, Bible >records, articles, and cemetery information from your own research >to be included at: > http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/il/macoupin/macoupin.htm > >

From: "John M. Scroggins" <scroggjm@erols.com> To: "Jack Cox" <jack_cox@kc.net>, <MADMANSMON@aol.com>, "Gloria Frazier" <glofra@townsqr.com> Subject: RE: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1999 08:00:11 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Gloria: Since this could be construed as a commercial message, I'll leave it up to you whether to put it on the list to correct the mistaken impression that Ancestry.com sells CD's with user-contributed files. Contrary to what Mr. Cox and Mary (MADMANSMOM@aol.com) imply, Ancestry.com does NOT sell family tree information on CD's and does NOT charge for access to such information users post in order to share with other users. Gedcom files submitted to Ancestry.com by users are freely available to all visitors to the site without subscription; they are not put on CD's; and the data is not sold to anybody and never will be. Ancestry.com both makes it easy to contact the submitter directly by providing email addresses, but no personal information. And Ancestry.com makes it easy for a user to withdraw a file at any time for any reason (as was recently done by another Scroggin researcher who plans to update his large, well documented file that includes information about a few early Macoupin County settlers). Most of the CD's produced by Ancestry.com for sale are searchable copies of standard reference books ("The Source," "Ancestry's Red Book," "The Library," "The Library of Congress," the Allen County Public Library's "PERiodical Source Index," etc.), not family tree information. Most of Ancestry.com's subscription databases are ones for which there was a substantial conversion cost and/or a need to compensate the copyright owner. As a result, there is a growing amount of information online that simply wouldn't be there otherwise. Ancestry.com does post large amounts of information that is freely available without subscription and will continue to do so. And Ancestry.com will make user-contributed data available for free if there is no purchase or conversion cost. John M. Scroggins Director of Electronic Records Ancestry.com Subscriber to ILMACOUP-L (Scroggins, Gaskill, Tatum in Macoupin and Madison before 1856) > -----Original Message----- > From: Jack Cox [mailto:jack_cox@kc.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 1999 9:28 PM > To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers > > > I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information > up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and > Family Tree Maker. All of these CD makers encourage you to > post your information in order to "share" it with other > researchers. If it was sharing, they wouldn't be charging > what they do for the disks. I don't begrudge them a profit, > but earning money on my hard earned information - > particularly after I shelled out the money for their > software - seems a bit off center to me. > > I see a real problem here. If we don't share our > information, then how will we continue to help the other > researchers out there? On the other hand, if we do share, > our information can be misused, and at best will lead people > down the wrong path. > > Personally, I have never bought a CD from any of the family > tree program companies. I have looked at their info when > they have "free" promotions, but have found little that > hellps me, and unfortunately, the "proofs" are very thin and > usually nonexistant. Unfortunately, I have even found many > serious errors in the information provided by LDS. > > I do, on occasion, add information to my "cousins" part of > the tree without complete verification - at least from > people I trust, and if there are enough clues to indicate a > probable fit. However, if no annotation of source is > included, I take it as unproven. > > My recommendation . . . don't post information you have > gotten from others without their permission, and never post > it without credit. Posting unproven data is probably the > worst idea of all. > > I have long had a personal rule that I will never "post up" > my information to one of the "CD" sites. However, I will go > out of my way to share information with anyone who needs > help. > > My two cents worth . . . > > Jack Cox -----Original Message----- From: MADMANSMOM@aol.com [mailto:MADMANSMOM@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 1999 12:20 AM To: ILMACOUP-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP-L] Uploads to CD Suppliers In a message dated 99-03-16 21:35:48 EST, you write: << I share Gloria Frazier's concerns about posting information up to the various on-line "collectors" such as Ancestry and Family Tree Maker. >> I agree with both Jack and Gloria. The only good thing I see about FTM and Ancestry is that maybe someone will purchase the CDs and happen to be connected to you and then contact you to share and update the information. Maybe that is a dreamers attitude. Mary