FAG , the initials of FIND A GRAVE Ivan of Trafalgar **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220439616x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

THANK YOU, Gloria! Let us not forget that in the New World of the Internet, the WORD, "publish" derives from the Latin publis and by virtue of its meaning means it is OUT THERE! (Don't get upset about my spelling of Latin, it is many years since I had my required 4 years, and this may be the first time I've used it!) Just take it for what it is. It's a fine service donated by some very thoughtful people. If you want to go UN-public, just don't contribute to it. If you want to be recognized, probably don't contribute it then, either. And than of course, don't be a hypocrite and don't use the site............... Gracious Me! Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "G Frazier" <macoupincounty@earthlink.net> To: <cheekfamok@yahoo.com>; <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > Please, good people, do not walk on copyrights. > > Obits are copyrighted. So, if you plan to use obits post 75yrs as your own > in a public forum, ask for written permission which I do not get when I > ask. You question a person's right to who wrote it? > > And, the form you use to excerpt is fine if you do not take ALL the obits > of that paper. > > If you use this (my) msg in a book or public forum and I did not want you > to do that, I will win in court. THIS MSG IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Well, dummies say there is no copyright note on it. I don't have to put a > copyright note on this msg. IT IS COPYRIGHTED. > > Get real. Why would you want to hurt our publishers by walking on them? > > No, little publishers do not have the money to sue you so why not walk on > them? > > Excerpt one or two is fine. Excerpt ALL is not fine. > > Honesty. Be true to thy self. > > Off my soapbox and back to my corner. > > Gloria > > At 05:20 PM 3/30/2009, you wrote: > >>Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print >>a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold >>the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the >>creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often >>than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original >>obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they >>must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim >>copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that >>a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another >>party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict >>others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is >>a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a >>page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the >>obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and >> family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of >> the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very >> clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who >> has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary >> is the one who wrote it. >> >><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>"I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has >>seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David >>Eisenhower >> >> >>--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> >> > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright >> > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com >> > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM >> > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, >> > note that obituaries are copyrighted. The copyright >> > belongs to the newspaper owner. Thus no obit should appear >> > online without the owner's permission and that >> > permission must be noted. Otherwise you are infringing >> > upon the copyright. Copyright for obits follow the book >> > publication years - 75 years after published. >> > >> > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to >> > do an abstract. I use this type when I'm at a library >> > where photocopy services are not available with the >> > microfilm reader. I simply use a form I created (and can >> > be used by anyone) with the following info - >> > >> > Name of Deceased >> > Name of Newspaper >> > Date of Newspaper >> > Birth Date >> > Birth Place >> > Parents >> > Spouse >> > Marriage Date >> > Marriage Place >> > Death Date >> > Death Place >> > Age at time of Death >> > Children and if given Address >> > Grandchildren (number unless named) >> > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >> > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) >> > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address >> > Burial Date >> > Burial Place >> > Funeral Home >> > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations >> > >> > >> > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is >> > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the >> > copyright law. (I worked with copyright for numerous years >> > as part of my job and would question those more >> > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) >> > >> > >> > Debbi >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >> > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word >> > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and >> > the body of the message >> >> >> >> >> >>Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >>http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Find a Grave What about the graves with no headstone? What about the information that was on record but now? What happened to those records? With those names of record there should be a box with their names in the boxes with their names and information in it. Or is Find a Grave for graves ONLY with tombstones??? Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: <sjlbuethner-sheminee@att.net> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave F[ind] A G[rave]. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi- bin/fg.cgi?page=lo&GRid=22598283&SUBccntry=4&SUBcst=16&SUBccnty =705&SUBcid=150135&SUBIsFamous=N&lname= Or http://tinyurl.com/cp7kuw Sharon On 30 Mar 2009 at 15:53, Ilene Jones wrote: Will someone tell me what FAG stands for IJ -----Original Message----- From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ilmacoup- bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Debbi Geer Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:31 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Wayne FAG submissions are by individuals. If you look at the submitter's line on the entry it will give you additional info and in most cases a way to contact the person either on the site or privately. If you suspect someone has taken your photos, you should contact the individual as FAG trusts that the submitters are honest when submitting the info on any one entry. Many people are using FAG as compared to the county sites because they can access a surname without visiting numerous sites. FAG recently added a feature for which you can access entries in a county with the person's full name or just the surname. Many that access FAG are not members of mail lists or gen/his socieites but are heavily involved with genealogy. Debbi --- On Sun, 3/29/09, W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> wrote: From: W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 3:24 PM Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site Joseph and everyone, I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take without giving credit or caring where it came from. I have found some that they "stole" from my websites and after some "work" I had some of these removed from FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it continually. Also there are the ads. I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon become a "pay for" site. This is just my opinion and does not reflect the thoughts and ideas of anyone else. I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many sources over the last dozen years or so and there is also some genealogical data provided as well. The US photos and data are listed http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. Also they are my county pages for Perry and Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries and other data. Then there is washignton DC and Mcnairy County, Tn. http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. Wayne http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

F[ind] A G[rave]. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi- bin/fg.cgi?page=lo&GRid=22598283&SUBccntry=4&SUBcst=16&SUBccnty =705&SUBcid=150135&SUBIsFamous=N&lname= Or http://tinyurl.com/cp7kuw Sharon On 30 Mar 2009 at 15:53, Ilene Jones wrote: Will someone tell me what FAG stands for IJ -----Original Message----- From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ilmacoup- bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Debbi Geer Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:31 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Wayne FAG submissions are by individuals.  If you look at the submitter's line on the entry it will give you additional info and in most cases a way to contact the person either on the site or privately.  If you suspect someone has taken your photos, you should contact the individual as FAG trusts that the submitters are honest when submitting the info on any one entry. Many people are using FAG as compared to the county sites because they can access a surname without visiting numerous sites.  FAG recently added a feature for which you can access entries in a county with the person's full name or just the surname.  Many that access FAG are not members of mail lists or gen/his socieites but are heavily involved with genealogy. Debbi --- On Sun, 3/29/09, W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> wrote: From: W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 3:24 PM Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site Joseph and everyone, I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take without giving credit or caring where it came from. I have found some that they "stole" from my websites and after some "work" I had some of these removed from FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it continually. Also there are the ads. I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon become a "pay for" site. This is just my opinion and does not reflect the thoughts and ideas of anyone else. I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many sources over the last dozen years or so and there is also some genealogical data provided as well. The US photos and data are listed http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. Also they are my county pages for Perry and Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries and other data. Then there is washignton DC and Mcnairy County, Tn. http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. Wayne http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

FAG is Find A Grave --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Ilene Jones <genealogy4@msn.com> wrote: From: Ilene Jones <genealogy4@msn.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 4:53 PM Will someone tell me what FAG stands for IJ -----Original Message----- From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Debbi Geer Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:31 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Wayne FAG submissions are by individuals.  If you look at the submitter's line on the entry it will give you additional info and in most cases a way to contact the person either on the site or privately.  If you suspect someone has taken your photos, you should contact the individual as FAG trusts that the submitters are honest when submitting the info on any one entry. Many people are using FAG as compared to the county sites because they can access a surname without visiting numerous sites.  FAG recently added a feature for which you can access entries in a county with the person's full name or just the surname.  Many that access FAG are not members of mail lists or gen/his socieites but are heavily involved with genealogy. Debbi --- On Sun, 3/29/09, W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> wrote: From: W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 3:24 PM Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site Joseph and everyone, I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take without giving credit or caring where it came from. I have found some that they "stole" from my websites and after some "work" I had some of these removed from FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it continually. Also there are the ads. I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon become a "pay for" site. This is just my opinion and does not reflect the thoughts and ideas of anyone else. I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many sources over the last dozen years or so and there is also some genealogical data provided as well. The US photos and data are listed http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. Also they are my county pages for Perry and Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries and other data. Then there is washignton DC and Mcnairy County, Tn. http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. Wayne http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message       Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When a person is being paid to write an article, then the employer holds the copyright.  Thus anyone employed by a newspaper can not hold the copyright of their articles. And yes back in the 1990's obits were challenged.  The court ruling was that people provide the information to the funeral home director who in turns provides it on a form provided by the newspaper.  Then the newspaper takes the data and creates a story - the obit.  Thus the newspaper must be contacted when someone wants to publish the obit in a book or placed online..  The copyright law extended all the rights that books, magazines, etc have to use on the internet  back in the 1990's too. At one conference it was mentioned that a newspaper took a person to court for reprinting obits in a family history book.  The newspaper won the case.  All the books had to be recalled by the individual and all given a total refund.  That person lost oodles over it - sale of books and all court costs. Debbi --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Richard & Jene Cheek <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Richard & Jene Cheek <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 4:20 PM Just to muddy the water on copyrights.  Just because the newspapers print a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold the copyright to a particular obituary.  The copyright belongs to the creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary.  This is more often than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another party.  Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict others from copying and or reprinting the material.  What can object to is a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a page.  It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the obituaries.  I know there are many genealogy and family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary is the one who wrote it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, > note that obituaries are copyrighted.  The copyright > belongs to the newspaper owner.  Thus no obit should appear > online without the owner's permission and that > permission must be noted.  Otherwise you are infringing > upon the copyright.  Copyright for obits follow the book > publication years - 75 years after published. > > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to > do an abstract.  I use this type when I'm at a library > where photocopy services are not available with the > microfilm reader.  I simply use a form I created (and can > be used by anyone) with the following info - > > Name of Deceased > Name of Newspaper > Date of Newspaper > Birth Date > Birth Place > Parents > Spouse > Marriage Date > Marriage Place > Death Date > Death Place > Age at time of Death > Children and if given Address > Grandchildren (number unless named) > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address > Burial Date > Burial Place > Funeral Home > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations > > > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the > copyright law.  (I worked with copyright for numerous years > as part of my job and would question those more > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) > > > Debbi > > > > > >        > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message       Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Does anyone know if they are still having the COLE - LEMARR reunion? They used to have it at Beaver Dam near Carlinville? The HARR reunion was held at the park near Palmyra. I was wondering if they still are having them or who I could contact about them. Thanks, Regina **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)

Will someone tell me what FAG stands for IJ -----Original Message----- From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Debbi Geer Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:31 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Wayne FAG submissions are by individuals.  If you look at the submitter's line on the entry it will give you additional info and in most cases a way to contact the person either on the site or privately.  If you suspect someone has taken your photos, you should contact the individual as FAG trusts that the submitters are honest when submitting the info on any one entry. Many people are using FAG as compared to the county sites because they can access a surname without visiting numerous sites.  FAG recently added a feature for which you can access entries in a county with the person's full name or just the surname.  Many that access FAG are not members of mail lists or gen/his socieites but are heavily involved with genealogy. Debbi --- On Sun, 3/29/09, W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> wrote: From: W Hinton <wmhntn@frontiernet.net> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 3:24 PM Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site Joseph and everyone, I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take without giving credit or caring where it came from. I have found some that they "stole" from my websites and after some "work" I had some of these removed from FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it continually. Also there are the ads. I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon become a "pay for" site. This is just my opinion and does not reflect the thoughts and ideas of anyone else. I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many sources over the last dozen years or so and there is also some genealogical data provided as well. The US photos and data are listed http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. Also they are my county pages for Perry and Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries and other data. Then there is washignton DC and Mcnairy County, Tn. http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. Wayne http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I've had my material copied by both sides of the family, with no credit given. On my dad's side, the guy didn't even copy it correctly, so he has people and their data mixed. He was a "third party", who got my material from someone I gave it to, so I've never even met him. I guess it's OK to rip off a stranger. Of course, they do not answer emails. I would LOVE to meet either of these thieves. Linda Kmiecik

Sharon, I have several relatives in the Fargo-Moorhead area. One of them is a sports chiropractor who has closed his office and been out there sandbagging with everyone else. He says it's been brutal. I am hoping all the hard work holds through this latest blizzard. You all are in my thoughts and prayers. Jill -----Original Message----- From: sjlbuethner-sheminee@att.net To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com; cheekfamok@yahoo.com Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Snow in Macoupin You all are welcome to all the snow [and water] you want. Sharon Fargo, ND [somebody must have been REALLY BAD here, for us to be blessed with a blizzard on top of [during] a FLOOD. On 29 Mar 2009 at 20:35, Richard & Jene Cheek wrote: I must confess to being a little jealous. We were promised snow up to 6 inches on Saturday and were looking forward to a real snow day. So what happened, not enough snow on top of the car to even make a snow ball. I know lots of kids, including my grandchildren, who were really disappointed. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Chuck & Cindy Leonard <leonardc@madisontelco.com> wrote: From: Chuck & Cindy Leonard <leonardc@madisontelco.com> Subject: [ILMACOUP] Snow in Macoupin To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 2:18 PM Just thought our readers might like to know that Macoupin County residents woke up to a blanket of snow this morning March 29, 2009. I don't know how much, probably between 2-4 inches. Haven't heard from northern part of county - they may have had more. It is melting quickly, but at about 5:00 this morning, flakes the size of quarters or larger were falling. Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is a follow up to my previous post. Here are two examples of newspaper copyright statements on obituaries. First from the Anchorage Daily News- Copyright: All death notices and obituaries become the property of the Daily News and may be republished in any format. Questions? Call our obituary writers at 257-4452 weekdays or 257-4307 Saturdays. We do not process obituaries on Sundays. The in-state, toll-free number is 1-800-478-4200, ext. 452 or 307. See www.adn.com/news/obituaries/ with links for guidelines, tips to avoid editing and a sample obituary. First they make an unsubstantiated claim that the notices and obituaries become their property. There is no way under copyright law that they can back this up. Death notices are nearly always just the facts about a death and facts cannot be copyrighted. Secondly, merely claiming something to be your property in no way makes it in fact your. To their credit they do then give blanket permission for republication. Second from The Buffalo News © 2009 The Buffalo News. The information you receive online from The Buffalo News is protected by the copyright laws of the United States. The copyright laws prohibit any copying, redistributing, re-transmitting, or re-purposing of any copyright-protected material. The folks in Buffalo are much more careful. They carefully state that copyright laws prohibit the "copying, redistributing, re-transmitting, or re-purposing of any copyright-protected material" without ever stating what is copyrighted. A reader might assume from that statement that they are claiming to hold the copyright to the material above the notice but they really are not. Other papers do this differently but the bottom line is still that the newspapers are not the copyright holders unless they were the creators of the obituaries. --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Richard & Jene Cheek <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Richard & Jene Cheek <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 4:20 PM > Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the > newspapers print a copyright notice next the obituaries does > not mean they actually hold the copyright to a particular > obituary. The copyright belongs to the creator or the one > who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often than > not the family or the funeral home who submitted the > original obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper > edits the obituary, they must substantially change it from > the original form in order to claim copyright. To my > knowledge there have been no court cases which held that a > newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by > another party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no > right to restrict others from copying and or reprinting the > material. What can object to is a photocopy or pdf file of > an entire page or a substantial part of a page. It is the > page that is copyrighted not the text of the obituaries. I > know there are many genealogy and > family history sites that will not let you publish > obituaries because of the newspapers' claim to hold > copyright, but the copyright laws are very clear that it is > the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who has > a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an > obituary is the one who wrote it. > > <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, > only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its > stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower > > > --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM > > While we're on the subject of photos and use of > them, > > note that obituaries are copyrighted.  The copyright > > belongs to the newspaper owner.  Thus no obit should > appear > > online without the owner's permission and that > > permission must be noted.  Otherwise you are > infringing > > upon the copyright.  Copyright for obits follow the > book > > publication years - 75 years after published. > > > > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits > is to > > do an abstract.  I use this type when I'm at a > library > > where photocopy services are not available with the > > microfilm reader.  I simply use a form I created (and > can > > be used by anyone) with the following info - > > > > Name of Deceased > > Name of Newspaper > > Date of Newspaper > > Birth Date > > Birth Place > > Parents > > Spouse > > Marriage Date > > Marriage Place > > Death Date > > Death Place > > Age at time of Death > > Children and if given Address > > Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address > > Burial Date > > Burial Place > > Funeral Home > > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations > > > > > > This gives you all the info from the obit but because > it is > > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate > the > > copyright law.  (I worked with copyright for numerous > years > > as part of my job and would question those more > > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical > needs.) > > > > > > Debbi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the > subject and > > the body of the message > > > > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

Just to muddy the water on copyrights. Just because the newspapers print a copyright notice next the obituaries does not mean they actually hold the copyright to a particular obituary. The copyright belongs to the creator or the one who originally wrote the obituary. This is more often than not the family or the funeral home who submitted the original obituary to the newspaper. Even if the newspaper edits the obituary, they must substantially change it from the original form in order to claim copyright. To my knowledge there have been no court cases which held that a newspaper held copyright to an an obituary written by another party. Consequently they (the newspapers) have no right to restrict others from copying and or reprinting the material. What can object to is a photocopy or pdf file of an entire page or a substantial part of a page. It is the page that is copyrighted not the text of the obituaries. I know there are many genealogy and family history sites that will not let you publish obituaries because of the newspapers' claim to hold copyright, but the copyright laws are very clear that it is the creator who holds the copyright. So the only one who has a legal right to object to someone copying or reprinting an obituary is the one who wrote it. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> wrote: > From: Debbi Geer <dgirth@yahoo.com> > Subject: [ILMACOUP] Obits and Copyright > To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com > Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 12:01 PM > While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, > note that obituaries are copyrighted.  The copyright > belongs to the newspaper owner.  Thus no obit should appear > online without the owner's permission and that > permission must be noted.  Otherwise you are infringing > upon the copyright.  Copyright for obits follow the book > publication years - 75 years after published. > > The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to > do an abstract.  I use this type when I'm at a library > where photocopy services are not available with the > microfilm reader.  I simply use a form I created (and can > be used by anyone) with the following info - > > Name of Deceased > Name of Newspaper > Date of Newspaper > Birth Date > Birth Place > Parents > Spouse > Marriage Date > Marriage Place > Death Date > Death Place > Age at time of Death > Children and if given Address > Grandchildren (number unless named) > Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) > Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address > Burial Date > Burial Place > Funeral Home > Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations > > > This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is > not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the > copyright law.  (I worked with copyright for numerous years > as part of my job and would question those more > knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) > > > Debbi > > > > > > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

I, too, have found my research "posted" -- both on Roots Web and Ancestry. I did not upload my files, as they are "working files", and many of those posted are now either incomplete or not correct. The latest one I shared my working files with an "allied line" researcher with the statement that it was for her use ONLY and was NOT to be uploaded to any public site. Within TEN minutes, it was up on the internet. Quite honestly guys, I ripped her ..... She claims she has now taken it down, I don't think so, and she can not understand why I was upset. I already have my files all over with NO CONTACT INFO, so no way to correct info, or for people to contact me. What part of DO NOT POST PUBLICLY did she not understand?? I am very willing to help people and often spend hours helping people who are not even in my line. If I can help, I am happy to do so. Why can not people realize IF I wanted my own research uploaded, I WOULD DO IT???? Sharon Buethner Fargo, ND [A flood & a blizzard - what fun - grin] On 30 Mar 2009 at 8:44, Marita Gladson wrote: When I post my Macoupin County research, I expect those who borrow it, to give me credit. Just as quoting from a book, it would be plagiarism otherwise. I spent the time and money to do the digging.t. I found my research in other's work and they included my errors and wouldn't make the corrections I asked them to make. A word of caution, take what you find with a grain of salt unless you find the original documents. Things on the web are not just for the taking. I have put videos on my website taken by others but have permission or have given credit. I am very careful who I share with now. Marita Gladson, M.A. MFT Exec. Director Saboba's Hope,Inc. Fullerton, Ca 714-773-5172 www.sabobashope.net www.sabobamedicalcentre.net http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=1775 0846 Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP- request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

After reading all the comments in the past 24 hours I decided to put my comment in. Yes, I like Find a Grave. I have found family that way that I may have never made contact with. No, I DO NOT like it when people STEAL pictures. Find a Grave says you have to be the one to take the picture. The person taking the original picture should be asked for it's use and get credit. Unfortunately, everyone is not honest. One person I contacted reguarding pictures posted on Find a Grave said she took them from another site, and had no  ties to that cemetery, I have alot of family buried there, but someone else had taken the pictures for which I am grateful. It is people like her that give Find a Grave a bad name. She was not willing to remove it nor transfer the people she had posted from tombstone info. She was willing to let me send her the info I wanted to post/correct so she could submit it. I was not willing to do. I don't mind sharing and when someone requests a picture I have taken it's theirs to do with what they want. Can we put this subject to bed yet?   Ruthann Rives Hellemeyer

I was in a court house in a small county in Nebraska and given absolute free reign to look through anything and everything they had. As I was going through the original marriage licenses and applications and affidavits, I noticed one application that should have been in the box was gone--someone had lifted it! When I found the original marriage license and affidavits handwritten and signed my great-great grandparents giving permission for my great-grandparents to marry and another statement written and signed by the great-grandfather, I was so tempted to lift it, too. Ohhhh the temptation was there. I made lots and lots of xeroxed images of those items (and others). I hope when I return to that little court house on my way to or from Macoupin this summer, I hope it is still there. I will take my digital camera with me (didn't have one other time I was there) and take lots of pictures of whatever I find--in museum mode (without flash). Linda R.F. Arnold Menifee, California In a message dated 3/30/2009 6:49:06 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, Dorothy.Cook@badger.k12.ar.us writes: I talked with a lady once who found a copy of her grandparent's marriage license at the court house and took it. She said that it was her relative and she thought she had a right to it. I was appalled that anyone could do that. She is not a genealogist by the way. I do take photos and gladly share anything I have dug out and dug up. If I have made a mistake about something I like to be made aware of the fact. I am still discussing a picture of my grandmother with someone who thinks it is someone else. My mother claims it as her mother. Thank you to all who are willing to share our common history. ________________________________ From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of LRFArnold@aol.com Sent: Mon 3/30/2009 8:42 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave I, too agree with Rick in that I find and use Find-A-Grave to be extremely helpful. Most of us could never go in person to the cemeteries where our family members (distant cousins, the greats, or even in-laws) are buried around the country. Being in California, I have gone to most of the cemeteries where my families are buried and have posted photos of the markers to Find-A-Grave. One of my distant cousins asked me to go to the Riverside National Cemetery to take a photo of her father's marker and I did. I sent it to her, then asked if she wanted me to post it at Find-A-Grave or if she wanted to do so. She asked me post it for her (I don't think she knew how). Sometimes the information is incorrect, but it sure gives clues to finding the correct information. Unless so marked (a copyright claimed or implied), I am of the persuasion that what is posted online is there for sharing (and/or taking). If it helps another researcher, why not? Some of my photos have been taken without permission and posted elsewhere online. Yes, I was upset but only because I was not accorded the courtesy of being asked first. But then, if you post something online I think you have to expect it to be used elsewhere, ie taken. I don't post anything online what I don't want to taken. Just my thoughts, Linda R.F. Arnold Menifee, California P.S. Dare I mention that yesterday was near 80 degrees here and the only sign of snow was on the mountain tops and melting fast. In a message dated 3/30/2009 4:32:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hmdoty@madisontelco.com writes: I agree. I use findagrave to help make index lists to send to Gloria for the Mac site and help keep track of if I have the entire cemetery done or not and if the person is a relative I can add extra info. I have found info I submitted there copied into duplicate listings, I have found photos I sent to Gloria posted there as from others none of that matters to me as long as the info gets out there for the researcher who wouldn't be able to visit the cemetery any other way. Soon the weather & my time will get where I can get out and get some more so get ready Gloria ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Jene Cheek" <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Let me say to start with that I am only speaking for myself and do not mean it to be criticism of anyone else. Everything I post, cemetery pictures and otherwise I post hoping that someone will find it helpful. Consequently I don't really care whether it is copied or posted on other sites with or without giving me credit. I think I would object if someone decided to charge for information I provided for public access but to my knowledge that has not happened. I post pictures on my own websites, on FAG, on rootsweb, etc. and fully intend to continue to do so. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Debbie Hyland <dlhyland@gmail.com> wrote: From: Debbie Hyland <dlhyland@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 5:56 PM I have read quite a few cemeteries in my area and submitted the information to the USGenWeb Tombstone Project and have always gotten credit for my efforts. I've had a lot of people over the years email me for pics of tombstones, etc. which has been fun and rewarding. I'd just find somewhere else to submit your work and don't give up, because the efforts you are making are helping many find ancestors and there are always a few "bad apples." Debbie On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Mary Ann Kaylor <kaylorma@comcast.net>wrote: > I agree with Wayne. I have read several cemeteries and put them > online. FAG has some of them on their site just as I > transcribed/photographed them. At first when I contacted them, they > wanted to make it right and they did put my name on them. Later when > I found others, I emailed them and never heard from them > again. People were submitting them in their names when it was my > work. That is 'stealing'. I think there is some kind of "personal > contest" to see who can submit the most cemeteries on the FAG site, > so people surf the Net and steal others work. So I am not fond of > the site either. > > At 03:24 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: > >Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site > > > >Joseph and everyone, > >I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take > >without giving credit or caring where it came from. > >I have found some that they "stole" from my websites > >and after some "work" I had some of these removed from > >FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it > >continually. Also there are the ads. > >I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon > >become a "pay for" site. > >This is just my opinion and does not reflect the > >thoughts and ideas of anyone else. > > > >I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many > >sources over the last dozen years or so and there > >is also some genealogical data provided as well. > >The US photos and data are listed > >http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ > >and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. > > > >Also they are my county pages for Perry and > >Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries > >and other data. Then there is washignton DC > >and Mcnairy County, Tn. > >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ > > > >Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. > >Wayne > >http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ > > > > > > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Debbie Save Money Through My Web Store Get the Details Now: www.mywebcashstore.com/hyland7364 Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this outgoing message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.1.1 - 10.100.108). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x122043961 6x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx %3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! 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While we're on the subject of photos and use of them, note that obituaries are copyrighted.  The copyright belongs to the newspaper owner.  Thus no obit should appear online without the owner's permission and that permission must be noted.  Otherwise you are infringing upon the copyright.  Copyright for obits follow the book publication years - 75 years after published. The best way to avoid copyright infringement of obits is to do an abstract.  I use this type when I'm at a library where photocopy services are not available with the microfilm reader.  I simply use a form I created (and can be used by anyone) with the following info - Name of Deceased Name of Newspaper Date of Newspaper Birth Date Birth Place Parents Spouse Marriage Date Marriage Place Death Date Death Place Age at time of Death Children and if given Address Grandchildren (number unless named) Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) Great-Great-Grandchildren (number unless named) Siblings w/wo Spouse and if given Address Burial Date Burial Place Funeral Home Other info such as military, hobbies, organizations This gives you all the info from the obit but because it is not in a sentence/paragraph setup it does not violate the copyright law.  (I worked with copyright for numerous years as part of my job and would question those more knowledgeable at conferences about genealogical needs.) Debbi

Dorothy In regard to that disputed photo - Check the clothing style.  If you can determine which time period that type of clothing was used, you can pinpoint the approximate date of the photo and thus determine who the disputed individual is. Also, a photo is copyrighted by the individual who took it.  However, be aware that two people can take a photo of a gravestone and they may appear to be the same photo when in reality there is a very slight difference if you really look for one.  I took photos of some gravestones back in the 1980's.  I found those gravestones at Find A Grave and they were quite nice..  When I compared them to those I took, they looked the same, but I knew I only had one copy and never made copies for anyone nor provided the negatives to anyone.  So two people did take the photo of a gravestone and they looked so much alike that you could swear one was a duplicate of the other but I found the one small difference between them. If you want to protect your photos, add a caption to it in the lower corner which says "copyrighted (year) by (your name)".  Then make sure you note which websites you posted the photo to.  Later if you find someone copied it to another site, you can contact the person and website owner about copyright infringement and request they remove it.  Make it in writing and keep a copy.  Then if they don't follow your request, you can file a lawsuit against them. Debbi --- On Mon, 3/30/09, Cook, Dorothy <Dorothy.Cook@badger.k12.ar.us> wrote: From: Cook, Dorothy <Dorothy.Cook@badger.k12.ar.us> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 8:45 AM I talked with a lady once who found a copy of her grandparent's marriage license at the court house and took it.  She said that it was her relative and she thought she had a right to it.  I was appalled that anyone could do that.  She is not a genealogist by the way.  I do take photos and gladly share anything I have dug out and dug up.  If I have made a mistake about something I like to be made aware of the fact.  I am still discussing a picture of my grandmother with someone who thinks it is someone else.  My mother claims it as her mother. Thank you to all who are willing to share our common history.  ________________________________ From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of LRFArnold@aol.com Sent: Mon 3/30/2009 8:42 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave I, too agree with Rick in that I find and use Find-A-Grave to be  extremely helpful.  Most of us could never go in person to the cemeteries  where our family members (distant cousins, the greats, or even in-laws) are  buried around the country. Being in California, I have gone to most of the cemeteries where my  families are buried and have posted photos of the markers to  Find-A-Grave.  One of my distant cousins asked me to go to the Riverside  National Cemetery to take a photo of her father's marker and I  did.  I sent it to her, then asked if she wanted me to post it at  Find-A-Grave or if she wanted to do so.  She asked me post it for her (I  don't think she knew how).  Sometimes the information is incorrect, but it  sure gives clues to finding the correct information. Unless so marked (a copyright claimed or implied), I am of the persuasion that what is posted online is there for sharing (and/or taking).  If  it helps another researcher, why not?  Some of my photos have  been taken without permission and posted elsewhere online.  Yes,  I was upset but only because I was not accorded the courtesy of being asked  first.  But then, if you post something online I think you have to expect  it to be used elsewhere, ie taken.  I don't post anything online what I  don't want to taken. Just my thoughts, Linda R.F. Arnold Menifee, California P.S.  Dare I mention that yesterday was near 80 degrees  here and the only sign of snow was on the mountain tops and melting  fast. In a message dated 3/30/2009 4:32:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hmdoty@madisontelco.com writes: I agree.  I use findagrave to help make index lists to send to Gloria for the Mac  site and help keep track of if I have the entire cemetery done or not and  if the person is a relative I can add extra info. I have found info I submitted there copied into duplicate listings, I have found photos I sent to Gloria posted there as from others none of that matters to me as long  as the info gets out there for the researcher who wouldn't be able to  visit the cemetery any other way. Soon the weather & my time will get  where I can get out and get some more so get ready Gloria  ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard &  Jene Cheek" <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> To:  <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:26  PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Let me  say to start with that I am only speaking for myself and do not mean it to  be criticism of anyone else. Everything I post, cemetery pictures and otherwise I post hoping that someone will find it helpful. Consequently I don't really care whether it is copied or posted on other sites with or without giving me credit. I think I would object if someone decided to charge for information I provided for public access but to my knowledge  that has not happened. I post pictures on my own websites, on FAG, on  rootsweb, etc. and fully intend to continue to do  so. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<|  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I  hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Debbie Hyland  <dlhyland@gmail.com> wrote: From: Debbie Hyland  <dlhyland@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and  FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 5:56  PM I have read quite a few cemeteries in my area and submitted the  information to the USGenWeb Tombstone Project and have always gotten credit  for my efforts.  I've had a lot of people over the years email me for  pics of tombstones, etc. which has been fun and rewarding.  I'd just  find somewhere else to submit your work and don't give up, because the  efforts you are making are helping many find ancestors and there are always  a few "bad apples."   Debbie On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at  2:16 PM, Mary Ann Kaylor <kaylorma@comcast.net>wrote: > I  agree with Wayne.  I have read several cemeteries and put them >  online.  FAG has some of them on their site just as I >  transcribed/photographed them.  At first when I contacted them,  they > wanted to make it right and they did put my name on them.   Later when > I found others, I emailed them and never heard from  them > again.  People were submitting them in their names when it  was my > work.  That is 'stealing'.  I think there is some  kind of "personal > contest" to see who can submit the most  cemeteries on the FAG site, > so people surf the Net and steal others  work.  So I am not fond of > the site either. > > At  03:24 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: > >Re : May i ask what you know about  the find a grave web site > > > >Joseph and  everyone, > >I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and  take > >without giving credit or caring where it came from. >  >I have found some that they "stole" from my websites > >and after  some "work" I had some of these removed from > >FAG. But, I just  don't have the time to monitor it > >continually. Also there are the  ads. > >I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon > >become  a "pay for" site. > >This is just my opinion and does not reflect  the > >thoughts and ideas of anyone else. > > > >I  have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many > >sources over the  last dozen years or so and there > >is also some genealogical data  provided as well. > >The US photos and data are listed >  >http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ > >and the Illinois  counties are divided by counties. > > > >Also they are my  county pages for Perry and > >Washington Counties in Illinois with  many cemeteries > >and other data. Then there is washignton  DC > >and Mcnairy County, Tn. >  >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ >  >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ >  >http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ >  >http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ > > > >Too  much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. > >Wayne >  >http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ > > > > >  > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at >  >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >  >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list,  please send an email to > >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the  word 'unsubscribe' without > >the quotes in the subject and the  body of the message > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb  page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. >  ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please  send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word  'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the  message > -- Debbie Save Money Through My Web  Store Get the Details  Now: www.mywebcashstore.com/hyland7364 Check out Macoupin County  ILGenWeb page  at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To  unsubscribe from the list, please send an email  to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without  the quotes in the subject and the body of the  message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To  unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the  quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus  found in this outgoing message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.1.1 -  10.100.108). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ Check out  Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please  send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe'  without the quotes in the subject and the body of the  message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x122043961 6x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault..aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I, too agree with Rick in that I find and use Find-A-Grave to be extremely helpful. Most of us could never go in person to the cemeteries where our family members (distant cousins, the greats, or even in-laws) are buried around the country. Being in California, I have gone to most of the cemeteries where my families are buried and have posted photos of the markers to Find-A-Grave. One of my distant cousins asked me to go to the Riverside National Cemetery to take a photo of her father's marker and I did. I sent it to her, then asked if she wanted me to post it at Find-A-Grave or if she wanted to do so. She asked me post it for her (I don't think she knew how). Sometimes the information is incorrect, but it sure gives clues to finding the correct information. Unless so marked (a copyright claimed or implied), I am of the persuasion that what is posted online is there for sharing (and/or taking). If it helps another researcher, why not? Some of my photos have been taken without permission and posted elsewhere online. Yes, I was upset but only because I was not accorded the courtesy of being asked first. But then, if you post something online I think you have to expect it to be used elsewhere, ie taken. I don't post anything online what I don't want to taken. Just my thoughts, Linda R.F. Arnold Menifee, California P.S. Dare I mention that yesterday was near 80 degrees here and the only sign of snow was on the mountain tops and melting fast. In a message dated 3/30/2009 4:32:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hmdoty@madisontelco.com writes: I agree. I use findagrave to help make index lists to send to Gloria for the Mac site and help keep track of if I have the entire cemetery done or not and if the person is a relative I can add extra info. I have found info I submitted there copied into duplicate listings, I have found photos I sent to Gloria posted there as from others none of that matters to me as long as the info gets out there for the researcher who wouldn't be able to visit the cemetery any other way. Soon the weather & my time will get where I can get out and get some more so get ready Gloria ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Jene Cheek" <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Let me say to start with that I am only speaking for myself and do not mean it to be criticism of anyone else. Everything I post, cemetery pictures and otherwise I post hoping that someone will find it helpful. Consequently I don't really care whether it is copied or posted on other sites with or without giving me credit. I think I would object if someone decided to charge for information I provided for public access but to my knowledge that has not happened. I post pictures on my own websites, on FAG, on rootsweb, etc. and fully intend to continue to do so. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Debbie Hyland <dlhyland@gmail.com> wrote: From: Debbie Hyland <dlhyland@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 5:56 PM I have read quite a few cemeteries in my area and submitted the information to the USGenWeb Tombstone Project and have always gotten credit for my efforts. I've had a lot of people over the years email me for pics of tombstones, etc. which has been fun and rewarding. I'd just find somewhere else to submit your work and don't give up, because the efforts you are making are helping many find ancestors and there are always a few "bad apples." Debbie On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Mary Ann Kaylor <kaylorma@comcast.net>wrote: > I agree with Wayne. I have read several cemeteries and put them > online. FAG has some of them on their site just as I > transcribed/photographed them. At first when I contacted them, they > wanted to make it right and they did put my name on them. Later when > I found others, I emailed them and never heard from them > again. People were submitting them in their names when it was my > work. That is 'stealing'. I think there is some kind of "personal > contest" to see who can submit the most cemeteries on the FAG site, > so people surf the Net and steal others work. So I am not fond of > the site either. > > At 03:24 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: > >Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site > > > >Joseph and everyone, > >I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take > >without giving credit or caring where it came from. > >I have found some that they "stole" from my websites > >and after some "work" I had some of these removed from > >FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it > >continually. Also there are the ads. > >I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon > >become a "pay for" site. > >This is just my opinion and does not reflect the > >thoughts and ideas of anyone else. > > > >I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many > >sources over the last dozen years or so and there > >is also some genealogical data provided as well. > >The US photos and data are listed > >http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ > >and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. > > > >Also they are my county pages for Perry and > >Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries > >and other data. Then there is washignton DC > >and Mcnairy County, Tn. > >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ > > > >Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. > >Wayne > >http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ > > > > > > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Debbie Save Money Through My Web Store Get the Details Now: www.mywebcashstore.com/hyland7364 Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this outgoing message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.1.1 - 10.100.108). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x122043961 6x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62)

I talked with a lady once who found a copy of her grandparent's marriage license at the court house and took it. She said that it was her relative and she thought she had a right to it. I was appalled that anyone could do that. She is not a genealogist by the way. I do take photos and gladly share anything I have dug out and dug up. If I have made a mistake about something I like to be made aware of the fact. I am still discussing a picture of my grandmother with someone who thinks it is someone else. My mother claims it as her mother. Thank you to all who are willing to share our common history. ________________________________ From: ilmacoup-bounces@rootsweb.com on behalf of LRFArnold@aol.com Sent: Mon 3/30/2009 8:42 AM To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave I, too agree with Rick in that I find and use Find-A-Grave to be extremely helpful. Most of us could never go in person to the cemeteries where our family members (distant cousins, the greats, or even in-laws) are buried around the country. Being in California, I have gone to most of the cemeteries where my families are buried and have posted photos of the markers to Find-A-Grave. One of my distant cousins asked me to go to the Riverside National Cemetery to take a photo of her father's marker and I did. I sent it to her, then asked if she wanted me to post it at Find-A-Grave or if she wanted to do so. She asked me post it for her (I don't think she knew how). Sometimes the information is incorrect, but it sure gives clues to finding the correct information. Unless so marked (a copyright claimed or implied), I am of the persuasion that what is posted online is there for sharing (and/or taking). If it helps another researcher, why not? Some of my photos have been taken without permission and posted elsewhere online. Yes, I was upset but only because I was not accorded the courtesy of being asked first. But then, if you post something online I think you have to expect it to be used elsewhere, ie taken. I don't post anything online what I don't want to taken. Just my thoughts, Linda R.F. Arnold Menifee, California P.S. Dare I mention that yesterday was near 80 degrees here and the only sign of snow was on the mountain tops and melting fast. In a message dated 3/30/2009 4:32:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hmdoty@madisontelco.com writes: I agree. I use findagrave to help make index lists to send to Gloria for the Mac site and help keep track of if I have the entire cemetery done or not and if the person is a relative I can add extra info. I have found info I submitted there copied into duplicate listings, I have found photos I sent to Gloria posted there as from others none of that matters to me as long as the info gets out there for the researcher who wouldn't be able to visit the cemetery any other way. Soon the weather & my time will get where I can get out and get some more so get ready Gloria ;-) Rick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard & Jene Cheek" <cheekfamok@yahoo.com> To: <ilmacoup@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave Let me say to start with that I am only speaking for myself and do not mean it to be criticism of anyone else. Everything I post, cemetery pictures and otherwise I post hoping that someone will find it helpful. Consequently I don't really care whether it is copied or posted on other sites with or without giving me credit. I think I would object if someone decided to charge for information I provided for public access but to my knowledge that has not happened. I post pictures on my own websites, on FAG, on rootsweb, etc. and fully intend to continue to do so. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<| >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -General Dwight David Eisenhower --- On Sun, 3/29/09, Debbie Hyland <dlhyland@gmail.com> wrote: From: Debbie Hyland <dlhyland@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [ILMACOUP] Cemetery Photos and FindAGrave To: ilmacoup@rootsweb.com Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 5:56 PM I have read quite a few cemeteries in my area and submitted the information to the USGenWeb Tombstone Project and have always gotten credit for my efforts. I've had a lot of people over the years email me for pics of tombstones, etc. which has been fun and rewarding. I'd just find somewhere else to submit your work and don't give up, because the efforts you are making are helping many find ancestors and there are always a few "bad apples." Debbie On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:16 PM, Mary Ann Kaylor <kaylorma@comcast.net>wrote: > I agree with Wayne. I have read several cemeteries and put them > online. FAG has some of them on their site just as I > transcribed/photographed them. At first when I contacted them, they > wanted to make it right and they did put my name on them. Later when > I found others, I emailed them and never heard from them > again. People were submitting them in their names when it was my > work. That is 'stealing'. I think there is some kind of "personal > contest" to see who can submit the most cemeteries on the FAG site, > so people surf the Net and steal others work. So I am not fond of > the site either. > > At 03:24 PM 3/29/2009, you wrote: > >Re : May i ask what you know about the find a grave web site > > > >Joseph and everyone, > >I am not fond of this website at all, They take, and take > >without giving credit or caring where it came from. > >I have found some that they "stole" from my websites > >and after some "work" I had some of these removed from > >FAG. But, I just don't have the time to monitor it > >continually. Also there are the ads. > >I have also heard rumors that FAG may soon > >become a "pay for" site. > >This is just my opinion and does not reflect the > >thoughts and ideas of anyone else. > > > >I have a lot of cemetery photos on-line, from many > >sources over the last dozen years or so and there > >is also some genealogical data provided as well. > >The US photos and data are listed > >http://www.gillespieil.com/genealogy/ > >and the Illinois counties are divided by counties. > > > >Also they are my county pages for Perry and > >Washington Counties in Illinois with many cemeteries > >and other data. Then there is washignton DC > >and Mcnairy County, Tn. > >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/perry/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/ill/washington/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/washdc/ > >http://genealogytrails.com/tenn/mcnairy/ > > > >Too much, isn't it? About time to retire, maybe. > >Wayne > >http://www.gillespieil.com/gillespie/ > > > > > > > >Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > >http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at > http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Debbie Save Money Through My Web Store Get the Details Now: www.mywebcashstore.com/hyland7364 Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message No virus found in this outgoing message Checked by PC Tools AntiVirus (5.0.1.1 - 10.100.108). http://www.pctools.com/free-antivirus/ Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x122043961 6x1201372437/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) Check out Macoupin County ILGenWeb page at http://www.macoupinctygenealogy.org/. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILMACOUP-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

When I post my Macoupin County research, I expect those who borrow it, to give me credit. Just as quoting from a book, it would be plagiarism otherwise. I spent the time and money to do the digging.t. I found my research in other's work and they included my errors and wouldn't make the corrections I asked them to make. A word of caution, take what you find with a grain of salt unless you find the original documents. Things on the web are not just for the taking. I have put videos on my website taken by others but have permission or have given credit. I am very careful who I share with now. Marita Gladson, M.A. MFT Exec. Director Saboba's Hope,Inc. Fullerton, Ca 714-773-5172 www.sabobashope.net www.sabobamedicalcentre.net http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=17750846