Ok Richard, my friend, here it is from the horse's mouth. The National Chairperson of USGenWeb is Scott Burow* -- for another day or so anyway. He made the official complaint for USGenWeb. He just received the official reply from Anna Fechter, Community Operations Manager, The Generations Network, less than an hour ago. Here is the part I can share: "Earlier this week we launched the Internet Biographical Collection on Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/>. Our goal was to offer members a search engine that focused primarily on genealogy resources. We intended this collection to help surface family history information that many people would not be able to find easily because it is often scattered among numerous websites across the Internet. We cached individual Web pages in an effort to preserve history - if a Web page featuring important family history information were taken down in the future, a cached version would still be available. Many people have expressed concerns about the collection and the search engine we created on Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/>. We recognize the significant time and resources members of the genealogical community invest to make their family history research available online. Over the past few days we have reevaluated this collection's goals, caching and crawling ability, and user experience. We have decided to remove this collection and search engine from Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/> for the time being. We are still dedicated to providing family historians the online tools and aggregated records that make it easier to trace their family tree and will work to develop a solution that meets those needs in a way that will be most beneficial to our customers and the community." So you don't have to worry about understanding it anymore because it isn't there. <G> Cheryl Rothwell *Scott is Chair of ILGenWeb.

No Richard, I cannot direct you to our private lists. Well, I could but you cannot get on them anyway. Ancestry got a patent for a robot that spiders sites and lets them grab copies of pages from those web sites. Dick provided a line to that information. They put that up on Ancestry and they call Internet Biographical Collection. The people donated those files to USGenWeb or ILGenWeb or USGenNet or put them on their private web sites -- and now they are on Ancestry, free today but only AFTER an outcry and no promise they will be free next week -- not that an Ancestry promise means much. To me what Ancestry is doing is stealing, taking files without permission. Better it may be a copyright violation if they picked the wrong file. Obviously I am not explaining it well enough for you so I am giving up. Call Central. <g> I suspect this has something to do with the LDS going into competition with Ancestry as it digitalizes all its records and puts them online FREE. It has more records than Ancestry could ever hope to have and they are FREE. And, interestingly, the digitalization is progressing at a much more rapid pace than they original estimated. I'm participating in their beta tests and their search engines are pretty amazing. Cheryl

"Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> wrote in response to a post by Bill saying that "As of 2 a.m. (MDT) on Friday, 24 August 2007, the USGenWeb Archives had 1,000,569 files stored, browsable, and accessible by a single search." > Yes, that's true. All the more painful. Tell me, which - if any - of the 1,000,569 files is no longer available at RoosWeb, entirely owned by Ancestry.com, FREE. Why the pain? Richard

Dear Cheryl: I am sure there may be something going on here that is causing the complaints - but I can't seem to get any specifics. Nothing but generalities. As I said before, there have long been allegations about Ancestry "stealing" this file or that, but none of these allegations have - to my knowledge - ever been documented. I sometimes wonder why Ancestry doesn't get tired of people accusing it of things and just shut down RootsWeb entirely. Keep in mind that RW not only hosts the files donated by users to RW, but the million files of USGenWeb AND several thousand mailing lists. And it does this at absolutely no cost to any of the users of these services. We would have a tough time finding another sponsor that gives away - yes, GIVES AWAY - these kinds of helps. I was sorry to see RootsWeb become owned by a commercial company. But the hard fact is that of the millions of users of RootsWeb only a very few were willing to donate a few dollars a year to keep it going as a user-owned enterprise. My annual donation to RW was usually more than the cost of my subscription to Ancestry. Now I got both for the price of the latter, thanks to Ancestry. You said: >I think there have been a bunch of cancelled memberships over this. At > least people have said they cancelled their membership. I don't have > one. It was never useful to me I know others who have great success > with Ancestry. Again, can you direct me to where you are seeing these complaints so I can get more that an "I think"? > In this case they stole from the poor and gave to the rich in a way > and that's what got them in trouble. They still have it on their site > but for now it is free. Again, can you be more precise as to what was "stolen"? Who are they "in trouble" with? And I would like an example of what it is "they still have on their site." Like I said, I may be the original skeptical researcher. > And keep in mind it isn't just USGenWeb archives. It is your personal > genealogy web site they are taking things from also. And that means a > lot of misinformation is going to be appearing on Ancestry.com. <g> Ancestry is like any other site. Everything there isn't gospel. They have their own "user submitted" files and have had them for a long, long time. By now most of us are smart enough to recognize which ones are baloney and which ones are worth checking out. Richard P.S.: Is this the same argument we had two years ago? <g>

Dick said signing up for an account [and more junk mail] should not bother people. It does bother more people than you would think. I suggest a fake email if it does, possibly one you used to have but don't anymore. :-) On 8/29/07, Sandi Gorin <sgorin@glasgow-ky.com> wrote: > According to their statement and George's - they were charging for them, > this is true. But, after concern was expressed, they put it on the free > side. Signing up for an acct shouldn't bother people; you have to do this > to post to any of the rootsweb boards anyway. Just my thoughts - Sandi

Yes, that's true. All the more painful.

One software company, MyHeritage, bought another, Pearl Street Software. Pearl makes Family Tree Legends. It also owns the GenCircles web site. MyHeritage is making Family Tree Legends available FREE and giving free access to the Pearl records. Go here: http://www.familytreelegends.com/downloads Cheryl Rothwell

Cheryl:: > If the "article I referred to" is written by a reader then great minds > think > alike because I wrote what I posted. Dick Eastman does have a post on his > blog and there are responses to his post but I haven't had time to read > them. As you can imagine, this is a major topic on the USGenWeb lists. Can you give me the link to what Dick Eastman wrote? > We have tested this Richard. They ARE doing it. We can show that they are. > I > tested it myself -- I'm the tester because I don't have an Ancestry > account. > Significant amounts of the USGenWeb archives are now on Ancestry, not a > referral link but right there on Ancestry with Ancestry banners. The > USGenWeb AB is protesting although I don't suppose it will do them a lot > of > good. The current focus is applying robot.txt to our web sites to see if > we > can stop the spidering. You know me. I am a "research skeptic." Exactly which USGebWeb mateial is invilved. Second, can you tell me if ANY previously free material at RTootsWeb - including USGenWeb files are no longer free? > The current owners of Ancestry are not the people who made the pledge to > keep Rootsweb free. Rumor has it Ancestry is up for sale again making the > people who made a pledge an even more distant memory. I don't think Ancestry has changed hands since it acquired RootsWeb, although it may not have the same principle officers. Richard

I think there have been a bunch of cancelled memberships over this. At least people have said they cancelled their membership. I don't have one. It was never useful to me I know others who have great success with Ancestry. But it is like any other corporation. You buy gas. You don't know even want to know what the corporation which sells you the gas does besides pump gas. In this case they stole from the poor and gave to the rich in a way and that's what got them in trouble. They still have it on their site but for now it is free. And keep in mind it isn't just USGenWeb archives. It is your personal genealogy web site they are taking things from also. And that means a lot of misinformation is going to be appearing on Ancestry.com. <g>

Following item is from Rootsweb Review dated 8/29/2007 Vol 10 No. 35 1a. 1 Million Mark Reached on the USGenWeb Archives As of 2 a.m. (MDT) on Friday, 24 August 2007, the USGenWeb Archives had 1,000,569 files stored, browsable, and accessible by a single search. The 1 million mark was reached when Cynthia Daigle uploaded a compiled cemetery listing for Moses Baptist Cemetery, Lafourche Parish, Louisiana. The USGenWeb Archives was developed in June 1996 to present transcriptions of public domain records on the Web. This huge undertaking is the cooperative effort of volunteers who either have electronically formatted files on census records, marriage bonds, wills, and other public documents, or who are willing to transcribe this information to contribute. The USGenWeb Archives is hosted by RootsWeb. Thanks to all USGenWeb volunteers for the hours they've spent walking cemeteries, hunching over microfilm readers, and scouring courthouses and libraries to provide the first million files. http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb

Here's where Dick announces it is now free. [It was not free originally] Note Dick is not wondering if they took from other web sites. He knows they did, personal as well as USGenWeb. Note he also points out that only today did they make it free. I don't know if it is a result of the controversy or not but I suspect it is. Whether it stays free remains to be seen. I know USGenWeb made a protest and I am sure it would have gotten into the media in a not positive for Ancestry story or three very soon. Internet Biographical Collection is Free at Ancestry.com from Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter by richard@eastman.net (Dick Eastman) Ancestry.com recently introduced a new genealogy-specific web search engine, called the Internet Biographical Collection. The service looks great but created a bit of controversy amongst web site owners whose sites were being indexed and cached. Today, Ancestry.com converted the new search engine to a free service, available to subscribers and non-subscribers alike. That conversion to a free service should eliminate most of the concerns. Users must first register before using this free service, which seems like a trivial issue to me. You can read Ancestry.com's announcement at http://blogs.ancestry.com/circle/?p=1785. The first announcement about the patent and the related posts are at: http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html Ancestry was acquired by MyFamily.com which is what it was when it bought Rootsweb in 2000. It is now The Generations Network. There have been multiple shifts of people, companies and even locations in there. Genealogy.com is a part of Ancestry and so is Family Tree Maker.

Wow! I am beginning to feel guilty for being an Ancestry.com subscriber. Sort of like being in bed with the enemy. Garland Edgell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> To: <illogan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [ILLOGAN] No More Free Genealogy > They have now -- like yesterday or the day before -- made it free BUT to > view them you have to sign up for the free trial or at least register for > a > free account. Some have said this to collect names so they have more > "members" the sale. I have no way to know if that is true. I do know that > Monday they weren't free. Today they are. Next Tuesday they may not be. > But > they were [and still are] FREE on USGenWeb. So if someone pays Ancestry to > view them that is wrong. Unethical at a minimum. > > Cheryl Rothwell > > > > On 8/29/07, Sandi Gorin <sgorin@glasgow-ky.com> wrote: >> >> Just a note from George Eastman this morning .... ancestry.com is making >> it >> free. I've already tried it out and the only problem is that I've posted >> 10,000 bios for KY so 10,000 plus entries come up with my name on it when >> I >> do a surname search! >> Sandi >> >> >> ________ >> Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan >> >> To unsubscribe send a message to: >> ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com >> with unsubscribe as the subject. >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > ________ > Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe as the subject. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

According to their statement and George's - they were charging for them, this is true. But, after concern was expressed, they put it on the free side. Signing up for an acct shouldn't bother people; you have to do this to post to any of the rootsweb boards anyway. Just my thoughts - Sandi

They have now -- like yesterday or the day before -- made it free BUT to view them you have to sign up for the free trial or at least register for a free account. Some have said this to collect names so they have more "members" the sale. I have no way to know if that is true. I do know that Monday they weren't free. Today they are. Next Tuesday they may not be. But they were [and still are] FREE on USGenWeb. So if someone pays Ancestry to view them that is wrong. Unethical at a minimum. Cheryl Rothwell On 8/29/07, Sandi Gorin <sgorin@glasgow-ky.com> wrote: > > Just a note from George Eastman this morning .... ancestry.com is making > it > free. I've already tried it out and the only problem is that I've posted > 10,000 bios for KY so 10,000 plus entries come up with my name on it when > I > do a surname search! > Sandi > > > ________ > Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe as the subject. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Just a note from George Eastman this morning .... ancestry.com is making it free. I've already tried it out and the only problem is that I've posted 10,000 bios for KY so 10,000 plus entries come up with my name on it when I do a surname search! Sandi

If the "article I referred to" is written by a reader then great minds think alike because I wrote what I posted. Dick Eastman does have a post on his blog and there are responses to his post but I haven't had time to read them. As you can imagine, this is a major topic on the USGenWeb lists. We have tested this Richard. They ARE doing it. We can show that they are. I tested it myself -- I'm the tester because I don't have an Ancestry account. Significant amounts of the USGenWeb archives are now on Ancestry, not a referral link but right there on Ancestry with Ancestry banners. The USGenWeb AB is protesting although I don't suppose it will do them a lot of good. The current focus is applying robot.txt to our web sites to see if we can stop the spidering. The current owners of Ancestry are not the people who made the pledge to keep Rootsweb free. Rumor has it Ancestry is up for sale again making the people who made a pledge an even more distant memory. Cheryl Rothwell.

It is important to note that the article you are referring to is not written by Dick Eastman, but posted by a reader. I read it and reread it and - while there are some pretty harsh accusations - I don't think the charges are substantiated, at least in this article Ancestry owns RoosWeb. It certainly can - and has - referred subscribers to databases at RpptsWeb. At the same time, Ancestry has pledged to keep all of the user submitted material at RootsWeb as free database and they remain so. In other words, you do not have to be a subscriber to Ancestry to get the date - but if you are, you will be referred to it. I'm not sure what this person named Daniel has encountered, but it sounds to me like he was having some sort of computer malfunction. The charges that Ancestry is "stealing" data from free sties operated by individuals have been around since it first went into business. There usually is a simple explanation, such as an individual and Ancestry getting the some information from the same source. I don't believe your statement that we will now have to pay for what we once got free is accurate. As an example of what has been happening, someone once said Ancestry is now charging for data in the California Birth Index - and that used to be free. Well, that particular database is in the public domain and it still is free. But as a subscriber to Ancestry, I appreciate that my searches there include a search of the CBI and I don't have to go somewhere else to check that. There are many databases like that. I could be wrong - and I sure hope I'm not - but I think I need a lot more evidence than the single posting by someone who thinks he has been wronged. Richard Pence ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> To: "ILLOGAN" <illogan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 2:17 PM Subject: [ILLOGAN] No More Free Genealogy > Ancestry.com which has been slowly taking over the Rootsweb pages has now > struck at the heart of free online genealogy. Every genealogy website in > the > country has been mined by Ancestry.com who is now caching the efforts of > all > the volunteers and making them available as a commercial venture. You can > now PAY to see what was put online FREE. This new spider [for which the US > Patent Office actually gave them an exclusive patent] does not apply to > just > pages on the Rootsweb server but all genealogy pages INCLUDING YOUR > PERSONAL > GENEALOGY PAGES, wherever they might be. Anyone who wishes can read > about > it in Dick Eastman's column at: > > *http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html > *<http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html> > > The following explanation of the process is from Ancestry.com. Sadly, we > were not told until every genealogy page in the country had been spidered: > > > The MyFamilyBot Information Page: > > *What is MyFamilyBot? Why is it accessing my files?: * > > MyFamily is creating an index based on a powerful person-based > biographical > ranking engine that gives superior results over searches done using the > more > general purpose internet search engines. Ancestry.com indexes the > biographic > text and provides a search service that points users back to the > originating > website. > *MyFamilyBot* is the name of a web crawler (a.k.a. robot, spider) used by > MyFamily.com to find biographical text on the internet in connection with > this engine. The crawler works by deeply crawling sites that contain > biographical text. We have constructed the bot to limit its affect on site > usage to be within the range of that of the large commercial search > engines. > Sites that do not contain biographical text are examined in a superficial > manner. > > > Some counties are removing their pages but the horse is already out of the > barn so it is a little late for that. Until this is settled no new > information will be added to the web pages so Ancestry can charge people > for > what we provide freely. > > Cheryl Rothwell > ________ > Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe as the subject. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I felt guilty that I used the Free Ancestry site and was able to manipulate on some of the sites (like marriage records to get married name or a SSN) to get enough information to go to free sites, but I guess I shouldn't because they got some of the information for free and looks like they will get a lot more. Vick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> To: "ILLOGAN" <illogan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:17 PM Subject: [ILLOGAN] No More Free Genealogy > Ancestry.com which has been slowly taking over the Rootsweb pages has now > struck at the heart of free online genealogy. Every genealogy website in > the > country has been mined by Ancestry.com who is now caching the efforts of > all > the volunteers and making them available as a commercial venture. You can > now PAY to see what was put online FREE. This new spider [for which the US > Patent Office actually gave them an exclusive patent] does not apply to > just > pages on the Rootsweb server but all genealogy pages INCLUDING YOUR > PERSONAL > GENEALOGY PAGES, wherever they might be. Anyone who wishes can read > about > it in Dick Eastman's column at: > > *http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html > *<http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html> > > The following explanation of the process is from Ancestry.com. Sadly, we > were not told until every genealogy page in the country had been spidered: > > > The MyFamilyBot Information Page: > > *What is MyFamilyBot? Why is it accessing my files?: * > > MyFamily is creating an index based on a powerful person-based > biographical > ranking engine that gives superior results over searches done using the > more > general purpose internet search engines. Ancestry.com indexes the > biographic > text and provides a search service that points users back to the > originating > website. > *MyFamilyBot* is the name of a web crawler (a.k.a. robot, spider) used by > MyFamily.com to find biographical text on the internet in connection with > this engine. The crawler works by deeply crawling sites that contain > biographical text. We have constructed the bot to limit its affect on site > usage to be within the range of that of the large commercial search > engines. > Sites that do not contain biographical text are examined in a superficial > manner. > > > Some counties are removing their pages but the horse is already out of the > barn so it is a little late for that. Until this is settled no new > information will be added to the web pages so Ancestry can charge people > for > what we provide freely. > > Cheryl Rothwell > ________ > Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe as the subject. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.12.10 - Release Date: 8/27/2007 > 12:00 AM > >

Ancestry.com which has been slowly taking over the Rootsweb pages has now struck at the heart of free online genealogy. Every genealogy website in the country has been mined by Ancestry.com who is now caching the efforts of all the volunteers and making them available as a commercial venture. You can now PAY to see what was put online FREE. This new spider [for which the US Patent Office actually gave them an exclusive patent] does not apply to just pages on the Rootsweb server but all genealogy pages INCLUDING YOUR PERSONAL GENEALOGY PAGES, wherever they might be. Anyone who wishes can read about it in Dick Eastman's column at: *http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html *<http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2007/08/the-generations.html> The following explanation of the process is from Ancestry.com. Sadly, we were not told until every genealogy page in the country had been spidered: The MyFamilyBot Information Page: *What is MyFamilyBot? Why is it accessing my files?: * MyFamily is creating an index based on a powerful person-based biographical ranking engine that gives superior results over searches done using the more general purpose internet search engines. Ancestry.com indexes the biographic text and provides a search service that points users back to the originating website. *MyFamilyBot* is the name of a web crawler (a.k.a. robot, spider) used by MyFamily.com to find biographical text on the internet in connection with this engine. The crawler works by deeply crawling sites that contain biographical text. We have constructed the bot to limit its affect on site usage to be within the range of that of the large commercial search engines. Sites that do not contain biographical text are examined in a superficial manner. Some counties are removing their pages but the horse is already out of the barn so it is a little late for that. Until this is settled no new information will be added to the web pages so Ancestry can charge people for what we provide freely. Cheryl Rothwell

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: queenrainell Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.illinois.counties.logan/1556.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I have John's second wife listed as Sarah Jane 1900 and 1910 U.S. Census. Thanks for the help though. I believe that Sarah and John are my great-grandparents. Charles Ather being my grandfather his son, Theodore (Ted) my father. Also I have a few different names for John and Sarah's children according to the two census. If you want more info more than willing to share it. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.