This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wptill Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.illinois.counties.logan/1556.1.1.2/mb.ashx Message Board Post: John Franklin and Sarah Jane (Dutton) Fogleman Chlidren: Earl William Fogleman 31 Oct 1891 Cumberland Co. IL Grace Eve Fogleman 24 Aug 1893 Cumberland Co. IL Charles Ather Fogleman 01 May 1895 Cumberland Co. IL John Darlie Fogleman 01 Jun 1898 Cumberland Co. IL Lydia Arlie Fogleman 01 Jun 1898 Cumberland Co. IL Oral Talmage Fogleman 03 Dec 1899 Cumberland Co. IL Glee Reymond Fogleman 04 Nov 1901 Cumberland Co. IL Gla Raymond Fogleman 04 Nov 1901 Cumberland Co. IL Edith Marie Fogleman 27 Aug 1907 Cumberland Co. IL Meredith Fogleman 27 Aug 1907 Cumberland Co. IL Farrell Fogleman 1908 Cumberland Co. IL Franklin Fogleman 1908 Cumberland Co. IL Trafford Fogleman 1909 Cumberland Co. IL John Franklin's parents were John and Eva (Bowman) Fogleman From Guilford County, North Carolina I have a ton of info on the Fogleman family. Let me know what you need. Woody Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wptill Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.illinois.counties.logan/1556.1.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Thanks for the info. Now I think you know more than you think. Don't short change yourself. So now I have questions. What is your full name? (You can send me an email if you are not comfortable putting it on the net. I'm at wptill@aol.com) Where were you born? When did you get married? Where? When was your husband born? Where? What were his parents names? When were they born? Where? I'll probably have more questions later. OH one more, are you doing genealogy for your family? Woody Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
>I agree with you that people think genealogy should be free. The issue > was that what was free should remain free. Again, you are stretching it. The material remains free. It's still where it was. it was free last week. It is free today. it will be free next week. What you are paying for is not what's there, but how to get there. They were NOT charging for access to the data. Next question. > I think if people wish to subscribe to a service they should subscribe > to the one that works for them. I agree. But besides Ancestry.com, what is there? > It really does depend on where your > ancestors were and what they did as to which works best for you. > Someone wrote an article on that once -- if your ancestors did a, b > and c then X is the best service. If they did l, m and n then Y is the > best service. Do you recall that? Not really, but it makes no difference because there is reaally only one service with all the census records - which I use several times a day - plus a huge supply of vital records, cemetery records, old nuewspapers, war records, and on and on. > I do not chide people for paying for Ancestry. Actually what you do is chide Ancestry for charging for its services. <g> > I know you and Sandy think it is > gold. Sandy [a friend of Dick and I's] uses it so much she paid the > exorbitant fee to have internet on the ship! I do think it's gold - but I would never pay that price! Actually, for a one-name study it is really the cat's meow. I can get a query about a family I am not familar with and in a matter of hours I can pretty much nail down what line they are. All without leaving my chair and mostly on Ancestry, although there are other places. > Actually the right to obtain a patent to do whatever you want is not > in the constitution as you well know. I didn't say the right to do whatever you want is in the Constitution. What I said is that the right to obtain a patent is in the Constition. And I doubt any patent gives you the right to do what you want. > Ancestry is not impacting LDS. LDS is impacting Ancestry. That was my > point. You made it backwards. <g> Of course LDS is impacting Ancestry. I doubt, however, that the search engine patent will affect either of them that much. > Now I know you can continue this conversation forever but I think we > ought to wind it up before everyone's eyes glaze over. It's over. I already took one answer private and intended to do the same with this one, but thought it was of some general interest. Richard
>From Genealogy Insider: Genealogy database site World Vital Records<http://www.worldvitalrecords.com/>will provide "increased access" to the collection of NewspaperArchive.com <http://www.newspaperarchive.com/>, the largest online subscription newspaper database. By "increased access," World Vital Records webmasters mean they're extracting vital information in newspapers dating from 1759 to 1923, resulting in half a billion records, and making it searchable on the World Vital Records site. The first release of the NewspaperArchive.com data—40 million records—went up Aug. 27, and data for more titles were posted today. World Vital Records gives 10 days of free access for each site addition, so start searching.
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: queenrainell Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.illinois.counties.logan/1556.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Let's see as far as I know about my dad, He was born in Steele County, Minnesota on August 4, 1921. He had a little brother, Charles H. born in Iowa about a year or two later, date unknown. I figured it was a year or two, cause as I've noticed about birthdates, you could be the same age for a few months and then you turn a year older. My dad enlisted in the army in Will County, Illinois. I believe he lived with an aunt in Illinois, her name was Laura Witcholman (not sure on the spelling). He told me she lived in Effingham, IL. So he was in WW2. He was married at the time to I believe a woman named Mary E. That's all I know about her. After the war, he changed his name to Ted Franklin. I think they were together for a long time and had lived in Michigan for a while. Then I think she died, I'm not sure, my dad is very close mouthed about his past. After Mary, he married my mom Connie, in 1980. I was born September 22, 1981. They got a divorce when I was 12. He is still alive a! nd kicking in Michigan. I am married to Arthur Greenfield and don't have any children yet. That's about as much as I know for certain. That's as much as I know right now. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
>>Also, the military databases are a gold mine. I'm doing research on a Civil War diary of a woman who followed her son's unit around and acted as a nurse. She mentions soldier after soldier after soldier. My job is to identify as many as possible, including birth dates, homes, units, etc. Sounds interesting. I don't suppose she was from Logan County? Cheryl Rothwell
I agree with you that people think genealogy should be free. The issue was that what was free should remain free. I think if people wish to subscribe to a service they should subscribe to the one that works for them. It really does depend on where your ancestors were and what they did as to which works best for you. Someone wrote an article on that once -- if your ancestors did a, b and c then X is the best service. If they did l, m and n then Y is the best service. Do you recall that? I do not chide people for paying for Ancestry. You have me confused. I know you and Sandy think it is gold. Sandy [a friend of Dick and I's] uses it so much she paid the exorbitant fee to have internet on the ship! Garland uses it successfully. I subscribe to Footnote at the moment which probably isn't of great use to many people, at least at the moment, because most of what it has online predates the arrival of the first ancestor of many people. I also use Heritage Quest which has been available free through my library each place I've lived pretty much this century. I also, since you mentioned census records, helped purchase census records to be put online FREE at USGenWeb. Actually the right to obtain a patent to do whatever you want is not in the constitution as you well know. Ancestry is not impacting LDS. LDS is impacting Ancestry. That was my point. You made it backwards. <g> Now I know you can continue this conversation forever but I think we ought to wind it up before everyone's eyes glaze over. Cheryl
Caching is not the same as putting the pages in their entirety on your web site and then charging for them. When you get caught you make them free if a person registers. Only when people continue to complain and cancel do you admit it was an error in judgment.
No Richard. At first they were pay. Then they were free. Now they are gone. But Ancestry's original intent was to charge people for them. Why do you think there was such an uproar?
No, this is for my work at the university. She was born in Mass. and moved to Maine with her preacher husband. It is fascinating. There were many women workers from Illinois during the CW, though, Bykerdyke of Peoria County is a famous one. Once a supply officer complained to Grant about Bykerdyke's tactics in demanding supplies for the sick and wounded. Grant said that she 'ranked' him and that he had to complain to Lincoln about her! Diana Diana Dial Reynolds Editorial Associate, Peirce Edition Project Assistant Editor, Documentary Editing Institute for American Thought Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis 317-274-1539 ----- Original Message ---- From: Cheryl Rothwell <historysleuth@gmail.com> To: illogan@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:03:18 PM Subject: Re: [ILLOGAN] No More Free Genealogy >>Also, the military databases are a gold mine. I'm doing research on a Civil War diary of a woman who followed her son's unit around and acted as a nurse. She mentions soldier after soldier after soldier. My job is to identify as many as possible, including birth dates, homes, units, etc. Sounds interesting. I don't suppose she was from Logan County? Cheryl Rothwell ________ Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan To unsubscribe send a message to: ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com with unsubscribe as the subject. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Heck, I don't feel guilty at all having my membership. I LIKE having so much information at the tips of my fingers at one site. I don't have time to troll around the internet wondering if this hit or that one is what I need. Also, the military databases are a gold mine. I'm doing research on a Civil War diary of a woman who followed her son's unit around and acted as a nurse. She mentions soldier after soldier after soldier. My job is to identify as many as possible, including birth dates, homes, units, etc. Of the 72 pages of names gleaned so far from the diary, I've found probably 90% of them on Ancestry.com! Ancestry helps family historians as well as academic and public historians. Well worth the price for me. Diana Dial Reynolds Editorial Associate, Peirce Edition Project Assistant Editor, Documentary Editing Institute for American Thought Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis 317-274-1539 ----- Original Message ---- From: Richard A. Pence <richardpence@pipeline.com> To: illogan@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:31:38 PM Subject: Re: [ILLOGAN] No More Free Genealogy <gedgell@flash.net> wrote: > Wow! I am beginning to feel guilty for being an Ancestry.com subscriber. > Sort of like being in bed with the enemy. Look at it this way: Surely the FREE services they provide via RootsWeb are worth what you pay for your subscription to Ancestry.com. So let's just say you are paying for that. <g> And if everyone keeps calling them the enemy, perhaps one day they will decide to be - and dump RW and the files and the mailing lists. They way some people talk, I wouldn't blame them. If you really feel like you are consorting with the enemy, my advice would be to cancel your subscription. And then every time you use any of the millions of free files on RootsWeb - or any of the thousands of mailing lists it provided FREE - including this one - then you can really have something to feel guilty about. <g> Richard ________ Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan To unsubscribe send a message to: ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com with unsubscribe as the subject. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: wptill Surnames: Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.illinois.counties.logan/1556.1.1.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: I would love to share information with you. I have nothing on Theodore or his wife or his children of which you are one. Please tell me about Theodore's family line. Let me know what you want to know about the Fogleman family. I have a ton of information and what I don't know I can point you at the right people. The Fogleman line is my wife Vicky's line. Cheers... Woody Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.
Yes, I saw that. Ancestry sent me a copy. Has Scott filed an official complaint with Google for caching GenWeb items? Just curious. Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> To: <illogan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:12 PM Subject: Re: [ILLOGAN] No More Free Genealogy > Ok Richard, my friend, here it is from the horse's mouth. The National > Chairperson of USGenWeb is Scott Burow* -- for another day or so anyway. > He > made the official complaint for USGenWeb. He just received the official > reply from Anna Fechter, Community Operations Manager, The Generations > Network, less than an hour ago. Here is the part I can share: > > "Earlier this week we launched the Internet Biographical Collection on > Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/>. Our goal was to offer members a > search > engine that focused > primarily on genealogy resources. We intended this collection to help > surface family history information that many people would not be able to > find easily because it is often scattered among numerous websites across > the > Internet. We cached individual Web pages in an effort to preserve > history - > if a Web page featuring important family history information were taken > down > in the future, a cached version would still be available. > > Many people have expressed concerns about the collection and the search > engine we created on Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/>. We recognize the > significant time and > resources members of the genealogical community invest to make their > family > history research available online. > > Over the past few days we have reevaluated this collection's goals, > caching > and crawling ability, and user experience. We have decided to remove this > collection and search engine from Ancestry.com <http://ancestry.com/> for > the time being. We are > still dedicated to providing family historians the online tools and > aggregated records that make it easier to trace their family tree and will > work to develop a solution that meets those needs in a way that will be > most > beneficial to our customers and the community." > > So you don't have to worry about understanding it anymore because it isn't > there. <G> > > Cheryl Rothwell > > *Scott is Chair of ILGenWeb. > ________ > Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe as the subject. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message
> Having contributed several hundred of those items over the years - I am > galled > at the thought of anyone making a buck from them. My efforts were > intended to > FREELY SHARE with other researchers! But Bill - they have free every minute of every day they have been on line - that includes this very minute. And no one with control over the access is even hinting anything different. If the facts were different, then would be the time to be "galled." Richard
"Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> wrote: > No Richard, I cannot direct you to our private lists. Well, I could but > you > cannot get on them anyway. That's OK. I understand now what was happening. I am more than a bit astonished over the uproar about it, however. It has more to do with the attitudes - some of which are deserved - that people have toward Ancesstry. It could make all of its services free and there still would be complaints. Sign up? Never. What a rotten index. I uploaded my family tree and it's not right. On and on. They never have anything on my family. I don't like the viewer they use for their images. It doesn't have all the immigration ships. In short, genealaogy has always been a "free culture." Along comes someone who charges you to look at census images and it really upsets some folks, esjpecially those who have been among the "givers." > Ancestry got a patent for a robot that spiders sites and lets them grab > copies of pages from those web sites. Yes, I know. The right of citizens and corporations to get patents is guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution. I want to ask you a questiion. What you say above about what Anescrty is doing is, of course, what Google has been doing for a long time - and Google gets heaps of praises for it (although Ancestry obviously launched its project in a way that invited misunderstanding and criticism). This is a fact: Google uses its (patented?) searh engine to scour the internet for information, including genealogical data, then it _caches_ it so that the searches we ask for will be done more quickly. Now to the point: Google has cached my web site. Has it stolen it? (Yes. You can search "Pence Family History" and you can click on the "also cached" link and see my material under a Google logo. Ancestry did this same thing to a lady and she complained on her blog that the site had ben "hijacked"). If, in your eyes, Google is not stealing, how do you explain this statement of yours: "To me what Ancestry is doing is stealing, taking files without permission. Better it may be a copyright violation if they picked the wrong file." Now, let me ask you again. In view of what you said above, do you think Google is stealing? Has it violated my copyrights? Remember now, it has cached my web site - apparently in its entirety. I don't know if Ancestry did or not. > They put that up on Ancestry and they call Internet > Biographical Collection. The people donated those files to USGenWeb or > ILGenWeb or USGenNet or put them on their private web sites -- and now > they are on Ancestry, free today but only AFTER an outcry and no promise > they will be free next week -- not that an Ancestry promise means much. Please note this fact and acknowledge: The USGenWeb collection on RootsWeb has been, always was and still is free. Never did Ancedstry prevent anyone from accessing it. In fact, they gave it a plug in the current issur of RootsWeb Review. Second, I presume that those who put files on USGenWeb do so for the same reason I do: They hope that as many people as possible will find it of value in their research. That's my goal and that's why I don't think Google is "stealing" my material by caching it. If I read the material that has been written about this correctly, what the Ancestry spider does is no different from what other search engines do - except that Ancestry has patented features that helps it better find and match genealogical information. If it truly does that then why would I object if it found my web site and chached the information on it? That's why it's there - for people to find. Should I really prefer that no search engine ever find my web site? You say: "Not that an Ancestry promise means much." That's called an ad hominem argument. It implies some sinister actlion but provides nothing concrete. What evidence can you provide that Ancestry goes back on its promises? Specifics, please. I'll merely point out that Ancestry took over RootsWeb several years ago and has continued to fully support it and - as ***provmised*** - as a free service to genealogists. I see no evidentce that this will change. Finally, Ancestry's project is no longer free. It's gone. Ancestryannounced late today that it has pulled the - its cached collection of genealogical information is no loner available, free or otherwise. And I was sort of looking forward to trying it out to see if it actually worked as well as they hoped. If it had worked it would have been a nice tool for genealogists. > I suspect this has something to do with the LDS going into competition > with > Ancestry as it digitalizes all its records and puts them online FREE. I saw where someone else said that earlier. I'm scratching my head whondering how this could possibly impact ***in any way*** what LDS is doing. Give me a clue? I suspect it was hoping that the search engine would give it an edge c at least for a while, but that's now gone. Cheryl, I know you don't subscribe to Ancestry. I do, and for a variety of reasons you are familiar with. It's indispensable to me. You also constantly chide Ancestry for charging for its services. Sure it does. but it's not exactly gouging its subscribers. A one-year deluxe subscription to U.S. records costs me less than $10 a month. Before Ancestry.com put its census records on line I used to spend more than that on parking every time I went to the archives to crank the microfilm machine. It is a fantastic bargain. a true bargain and I think it saves me far more than it costs. I want to remind readers here that all of the material on RootsWeb, including the USGenWeb files, all the RootsWeb files, all the personal files and the support for all of the genealogy mailing lists, is not free. It's just that Ancestry is paying for it. No matter the dark fears some harbor, I predict that Ancestry will never charge for its support of RW (at least directly). On the other hand, it may simply shut it down. That way their critics will have one less thing to complain about. We need to remember something else. Ancestry is in business to make money. It has high-powered investors who are constantly putting pressure on it. Ancestry need to be competitive or it will fold. If that is what you want, then I think you should be more careful about what you wish for. Richard
Having contributed several hundred of those items over the years - I am galled at the thought of anyone making a buck from them. My efforts were intended to FREELY SHARE with other researchers! Bill Stephenson ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Pence" <richardpence@pipeline.com> To: <illogan@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:45 PM Subject: Re: [ILLOGAN] Item from Rootsweb | "Cheryl Rothwell" <historysleuth@gmail.com> wrote in response to a post by | Bill saying that "As of 2 a.m. (MDT) on Friday, 24 August 2007, the USGenWeb | Archives had 1,000,569 files stored, browsable, and accessible by a single | search." | | > Yes, that's true. All the more painful. | | Tell me, which - if any - of the 1,000,569 files is no longer available at | RoosWeb, entirely owned by Ancestry.com, FREE. | | Why the pain? | | Richard | | ________ | Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan | | To unsubscribe send a message to: | ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com | with unsubscribe as the subject. | | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message |
<gedgell@flash.net> wrote: > Wow! I am beginning to feel guilty for being an Ancestry.com subscriber. > Sort of like being in bed with the enemy. Look at it this way: Surely the FREE services they provide via RootsWeb are worth what you pay for your subscription to Ancestry.com. So let's just say you are paying for that. <g> And if everyone keeps calling them the enemy, perhaps one day they will decide to be - and dump RW and the files and the mailing lists. They way some people talk, I wouldn't blame them. If you really feel like you are consorting with the enemy, my advice would be to cancel your subscription. And then every time you use any of the millions of free files on RootsWeb - or any of the thousands of mailing lists it provided FREE - including this one - then you can really have something to feel guilty about. <g> Richard
I'll check it out. Can't find my file where I kept track of all the movements in the genealogy industry. > Ancestry was the book publisher.I know that is true. <g> Me, too. They used to send me checks! <g> Richard
Thanks for Dick Eastman's article. I realize now that I was aware of this but didn't get too excited as I didn't see where it was going to help me (or hinder!) much. And since I was a subscriber to Ancestry I wasn't paying attention to whether it was free (to nonsubscribers). I think it was Ancestry that acquire MyFamily and not the other way around. The History Channel (A&E) had purched it from Broderbund et al. (MyFamily was parent of Genealogy.com and FTM). Or perhaps it was The Learning Company which acquired it from Broderbund and sold to A&E). If I recall A&E practically gave it to Ancestry. I have all this written in a file somewhere (at least I thought I did, but I can't find it now), but if memory doesn't fail me, Ancestry has been under the same ownership since it was a book publishing company. At least nominally. The rub came when a big venture capital company pumped many millions into it to help launch the web activity. These guys were really hard sell and didn't understand much about genealogists - a lot of bad vibes, some of which still linger. Mr. Sitz, who headed the publishing firm, found himself in a seocnd-line executive position with a strange title haveing to do with maintaining relationships with the geneaqlogy community (as represented by various of the larger societies. The above is, as they say in Congress, entered with the understanding that I can "revise and extend my remark" once I find my file on "genealogy corporate genealogy." <g> Richard
If you believe Wikipedia they have an extensive article on Ancestry.com. I assume it fairly accurate but I don't know. Ancestry was the book publisher. I know that is true. <g> Cheryl On 8/29/07, Richard A. Pence <richardpence@pipeline.com> wrote: > > Thanks for Dick Eastman's article. I realize now that I was aware of this > but didn't get too excited as I didn't see where it was going to help me > (or > hinder!) much. And since I was a subscriber to Ancestry I wasn't paying > attention to whether it was free (to nonsubscribers). > > I think it was Ancestry that acquire MyFamily and not the other way > around. > The History Channel (A&E) had purched it from Broderbund et al. (MyFamily > was parent of Genealogy.com and FTM). Or perhaps it was The Learning > Company > which acquired it from Broderbund and sold to A&E). If I recall A&E > practically gave it to Ancestry. > > I have all this written in a file somewhere (at least I thought I did, but > I > can't find it now), but if memory doesn't fail me, Ancestry has been under > the same ownership since it was a book publishing company. At least > nominally. The rub came when a big venture capital company pumped many > millions into it to help launch the web activity. These guys were really > hard sell and didn't understand much about genealogists - a lot of bad > vibes, some of which still linger. Mr. Sitz, who headed the publishing > firm, > found himself in a seocnd-line executive position with a strange title > haveing to do with maintaining relationships with the geneaqlogy community > (as represented by various of the larger societies. > > The above is, as they say in Congress, entered with the understanding that > I > can "revise and extend my remark" once I find my file on "genealogy > corporate genealogy." <g> > > Richard > > ________ > Logan County ILGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~illogan > > To unsubscribe send a message to: > ILLOGAN-request@Rootsweb.com > with unsubscribe as the subject. > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > ILLOGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >