Hi Stan, Koenig is not a name with which I'm familiar but I suspect that it might be an Ostfriesen name due to the time you say that your "Sam Kings" immigrated and the fact that they settled in Tazewell and Livingston Counties. If Koenig is an Ostfriesen name these two could well be cousins due to the patronymic naming traditions in effect until 1811 and beyond. Sam is not one of the common first names from Ostfriesland but many names have been changed over the years. A common given name that it could have been is Sjamme and Americanized to Sam. In this tradition the child's surname is the father's given name in possessive form. For a more precise explanation please check out http://www.ristenbatt.com/genealogy/dutch_sn.htm . You could also go to the Ostfriesen Pages and subscribe to the Ostfriesen discussion list to learn if anyone on this large, friendly list has done research on the name of Koenig. There is also a web site for Tazewell County Genealogical Society at http://www.rootsweb.com/~iltcghs/ and a mailing list at ILTAZEWE-L@rootsweb.com . I have a query list at the web site listed below. Good luck in your search. Dorothy Nanninga Sewell dsewell@alaska.net Eagle River, Alaska Ostfriesland Ancestors http://www.alaska.net/~dsewell

Hi LuAnn, It's certainly a possibility that Garfield Gouge could be part of this family. William's son Nathan had moved to Fairbury prior to his moving there. Unfortunately, I don't have the names of his children in my records. I think I know where I can get them, though. It's good to know another place to look. Carolyn

Hi Susan, The Gouge family was originally from Limestone Cove, TN--near the North Carolina border. I think the reason William Gouge moved to Fairbury is that his son Nathan (brother to my husband's grandmother) already lived there. Unfortunately, I don't have the names of Nathan's children. I'll try to find them to see if any of them match up with the names you have here. Nathan was born in 1854, so it's likely these names could be grandchildren. Thanks for your help. Carolyn

Hi to Janet Matteson who mentioned the name Lightholder and Blanche Holmes Lightholder. She was the 3rd wife of John3 Lightholder who was a building contractor and owned a lumberyard in Streator (perhaps later owned by a Brown?), at one time located at 608 N. Vermillion Street (1925 Streator city directory). John3's first wife was Mary Ellen Rahn, married 26 July 1905 at Arenzville, IL. She was the daughter of John and Susan (Koffin?) Rahn, and he was the son of John2 and Ellen (Cullen) Lightholder, and grandson of William1 (the immigrant from County Meath, Ireland to Saratoga Co., NY, to Peoria Co., Chenoa, McLean Co., and Saunemin, Livingston Co., IL) and Margaret (McGuire) Lightholder. Mary Ellen (Rahn) Lightholder 31 August 1927 in Geneseo Twp., Henry Co., IL, in a freak accident involving a ceremonial sword in a car on a trip to a Knights Templar meeting in the Quad Cities (IL death certificate 0370153). All three children Olive, Margaret, and Helen were born to Mary Ellen. John3 married a second time to Olive (Legore) Messersmith, born 1889 and died 24 October 1937, one week before their divorce was final. Obviously this was not a happy marriage. John3 married third in June 1946 to Blanche Holmes, born 26 December 1890, died 13 February 1977. It was during his marriage to Blanche that John3 built their new home at 307 Court Street, Streator. John3 died 15 March 1954 in Streator. He was buried 18 March at Riverview Cemetery, Section 28, Plot 6. His first wife Mary is buried to the right of his stone and his third wife Blanche is buried to the left. William1 Lightholder is my ancestor also, but through his son Thomas2 and wife Elizabeth (Brown) Lightholder, married 1880 at St. Mary's in Pontiac. Their son Joseph3 was my grandfather. My uncle was Glen4 Lightholder born in 1908, and my dad was Harold4 Lightholder, born January 1910. This 4th generation came to Chicago in the late 1920s, and Joseph3 moved there also. To my knowledge, there are no Lightholders left in Streator or Pontiac, and only my dad's cousin Lyle Dolton and wife Helen are still in Pontiac. There used to be huge family reunions at the park in Pontiac, certainly in the 1930s and 1940s. Linda5 (Lightholder) Kmiecik Girard, Macoupin Co., IL

Hi, There was a John and Genevieve Gouge living in Fairbury; they lived in the very northwest part of Fairbury. Some of their children were Joe (born ca 1918, retired from farming and moved to KY or TN), Richard (born ca 1923), Rosemary and a son nicknamed 'Doc'. A son was killed or died during WWII. However, John Gouge probably would have been born in the 1880's/1890's to have children born ca 1918 or so. I may be leaving for Fairbury by the end of this week and I could inquire if anyone knows children's locations. There are NO Gouges in the Fairbury area telephone book. Susan Ulfers Campbell in GA

Thought all of you might find some of these sites interesting. You might note that the first site I listed is referring to the church/property issue as being the original reason for cousin marriages being forbidden. No other reason was necessary at the time and they didn't have the biological knowledge then to use that anyway. It's been proven, since this law was first issued by a church, that the chance of having flawed offspring from a cousin marriage are so small as to be practically nonexistent. Enjoy - you might be surprised and if you run into some of your own cousins marrying, you won't feel so strange about it. http://www.cousincouples.com/info/religion.shtml http://www.pemberley.com/pemb/adaptations/groupread/archive/messages/1938.html http://www.cousincouples.com/info/facts.shtml http://www.cousincouples.com/info/states.shtml ----- Original Message ----- From: "Amy Robbins-Tjaden" <atjaden@mindspring.com> To: <ILLIVING-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2001 8:55 PM Subject: [ILLIVING] Cousins marrying cousins One of the things I like best about genealogy is learning the historical, religious and cultural backgrounds of the societies in which various ancestors lived at various times. My own ancestry is filled with cousins who married cousins, including more than one pair of direct ancestors. This only happened, I've noticed, in my maternal lines, which are 100% Ostfriesen. In Ostfriesland it seemed, at least in my lines, that this practice was perfectly acceptable and not at all unusual. Sixteen of my maternal ggggrandparents emigrated to Woodford, Tazewell and Peoria counties in the 1850s. Their descendants weren't shy about continuing to marry cousins in this land. If you look at it from a practical standpoint, living in remote villages (as my families did on both sides of the ocean) with only feet or horses for transportation didn't leave one with too wide a marrying field. And land could be kept in the family after a marriage with both lines not losing anything. And ! they knew the families they were marrying into. And, and, and... Frankly, I've never understood what the big deal is about that anyway. Maybe it's in my genes. <grin> Much more a cause to raise my eyebrows was a direct ancestor down my paternal (Quakers from England) lines who fathered 26 children by three wives. Now that I find disturbing. A study of the Amish and Mennonite might reveal that with them intermarrying was common as well? If that turns out to be the case, would this still be a "genealogist's nightmare" or would it be something that can be understood and accepted given the cultural, historical and religious backgrounds of those people? Sincerely, Amy Robbins-Tjaden atjaden@mindspring.com amy@tjaden.com As this pair are my great-grandparents, I have taken it as a personal mission to disprove this finding. A real genealogist's nightmare, don't you think? Lot's of data, but still no conclusive evidence one way or the other. ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB

In a message dated 9/24/01 5:03:24 PM Central Daylight Time, ILLIVING-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Is anyone else out there researching the families of James R. Carson, Henry > Clay Carson, and William Gouge. William Gouge moved to Livingston County > from Tennessee in the 1890's and married Mary Hance Carson, widow of Henry > Clay Carson. I am not a Gouge researcher but there was a Garfield Gouge that lived in Corwith, Iowa at one time. He and his wife are buried there. In 1925, 75% of Corwith had connections to Livingston County. If there is a connection, I'd be glad to provide any info I find. LuAnn Folkers :)

One of the things I like best about genealogy is learning the historical, religious and cultural backgrounds of the societies in which various ancestors lived at various times. My own ancestry is filled with cousins who married cousins, including more than one pair of direct ancestors. This only happened, I've noticed, in my maternal lines, which are 100% Ostfriesen. In Ostfriesland it seemed, at least in my lines, that this practice was perfectly acceptable and not at all unusual. Sixteen of my maternal ggggrandparents emigrated to Woodford, Tazewell and Peoria counties in the 1850s. Their descendants weren't shy about continuing to marry cousins in this land. If you look at it from a practical standpoint, living in remote villages (as my families did on both sides of the ocean) with only feet or horses for transportation didn't leave one with too wide a marrying field. And land could be kept in the family after a marriage with both lines not losing anything. And ! they knew the families they were marrying into. And, and, and... Frankly, I've never understood what the big deal is about that anyway. Maybe it's in my genes. <grin> Much more a cause to raise my eyebrows was a direct ancestor down my paternal (Quakers from England) lines who fathered 26 children by three wives. Now that I find disturbing. A study of the Amish and Mennonite might reveal that with them intermarrying was common as well? If that turns out to be the case, would this still be a "genealogist's nightmare" or would it be something that can be understood and accepted given the cultural, historical and religious backgrounds of those people? Sincerely, Amy Robbins-Tjaden atjaden@mindspring.com amy@tjaden.com As this pair are my great-grandparents, I have taken it as a personal mission to disprove this finding. A real genealogist's nightmare, don't you think? Lot's of data, but still no conclusive evidence one way or the other.

Hi all, This one has had me puzzled for several years, so I'm hoping someone on this list can help me find out whether the Sam King living in Forrest late in the 19th century was actually two different men or one and the same. Here's a summary of the data I've collected from various sources so far: Event Samuel S. King Samuel King ----- -------------- ----------- Birth Aug 26, 1842 August 4, 1841 Birthplace Orrville, OH Ohio Marriage August 20, 1863 August 20, 1863 Place Tazewell County, IL Married Fannie Yoder Veronica Yoder Died April 1, 1900 Dec 19, 1900 Deathplace Indiana Burial Forrest, IL 1880 Census Morton, IL (Tazewell Co.) ??? One very likely possibility is that one of these gentleman is the son of Samuel Koenig (1808-1895) of Tazewell County. However, this raises a very delicate issue in that the son of Samuel S., who is also named Samuel, married a daughter of Lydia King, who was a daughter of Samuel Koenig by his second wife Mary Garber. If the above Samuel S. is the half-brother of Lydia King, then his son would have married his first cousin. As this pair are my great-grandparents, I have taken it as a personal mission to disprove this finding. Lately, I have visited Samuel S. King's grave in Forrest, where he is buried with a woman named Fannie (1838-1894). I also located a short blurb in the Pontiac Daily Leader newspaper, dated April 6, 1900, that states: "Samuel King, who moved from near Forrest to Indiana this spring, died last Monday." Further, I have pulled a copy of Samuel Koenig's probate record in Tazewell County, which provides a list of his children and their residences at the time. His son Samuel, who I believe to be the gentleman shown in the right column above is listed as living in Forrest! That would place both of these Sam Kings in the same small town at more or less the same time (the mid-1890s). Another little piece of evidence working against me is that Samuel S. King's sons, Samuel and Daniel show up in the 1900 Census in the households of two of Lydia King Metz's brothers, but I'm hoping that they were merely friends (members of the same church, perhaps?) not family members. The younger Samuel appears to have met his future wife, Louisa Metz in the home of her brother Oliver in Pleasant Ridge, Livingston County, Illinois. I have a picture of Sam and his 3 sons and 1 daughter at http://users.erols.com/gpuccini/KingFamily/SamKing.htm . The dates in the right column above come from Gingerich-Kreider's Amish and Mennonite Genealogies, as another researcher has quoted it to me. I have not been able to locate any source mentioning the December 1900 death date. Does anyone have any idea where Gingerich got that date from? If we are indeed talking about two different individuals, it would appear that Gingerich-Kreider erroneously assigned my gg-grandmother to the wrong husband. I attempted to find multiple Sam Kings in the 1880 and 1900 Censuses, but found only Samuel S. in the former and none in the latter (he was probably already dead and had moved to Indiana when the census taker came by in 1900). In the 1860 Census, Samuel King is listed as a 19-year-old in the household of Samuel Koenig. The Tazewell County marriage record of Sam King and Fannie Yoder unfortunately does not list the parents of either. I've checked the 1870 Census Index, but found neither of these Sam Kings in Illinois. However, there is a Sam King listed in Marion County, Indiana (this may be relevant, as Samuel S. King's sons William and Daniel settled there in the early 20th century). A real genealogist's nightmare, don't you think? Lot's of data, but still no conclusive evidence one way or the other. Thanks for your assistance, Stan

Is anyone else out there researching the families of James R. Carson, Henry Clay Carson, and William Gouge. William Gouge moved to Livingston County from Tennessee in the 1890's and married Mary Hance Carson, widow of Henry Clay Carson. I would love to exchange information with anyone else researching these families. Carolyn

I was raised in Streator, IL. all of my growing years. Am very glad to see some of this info on Livingston Co. I had an aunt Blanche Lighterholder who was a Holmes and was my grandfathers sister. They had the Holmes farms in Streator since 1864.. Other surnames I'm researching are Fraser, Holmes, Goslin. I have a Riverview Cemetery manual and if someone needs a lookup in it , would be glad to do so. Any info anyone might have on names I'm researching would appreciate getting it. Thanks Janet Matteson---------sewzq@uti.com

Hi Janet, You offered to do some look ups from the Riverside Cemetery and I'd like to take advantage of that please. I would like to have the death dates of the following if you have them: Jack Eugene Williams b. 18 Apr 1930 Randall Eugene Williams b. 29 July 1959 And if there the birth and death dates of: Andrew J. Williams probably died around 1935 Elizabeth Ann (Votaw) Williams died around 1999 I was born in Pontiac and raised in Odell, Illinois but now I'm in Eagle River, Alaska and it's a bit to far to do look ups for myself. Sorry I can't help you with your Lighterholder name or the other names you listed. They don't look like Ostfriesen names and that's where most of my ancestors are from. The names above are my brother-in-law and his family. I do appreciate your offer. Thank you, Dorothy Nanninga Sewell dsewell@alaska.net Eagle River, Alaska Ostfriesland Ancestors http://www.alaska.net/~dsewell

Hello,Are you researching the Brown families from Livingston Co.Ill,around 1855 ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony & Linda Kmiecik" <tonky@ctnet.net> To: <ILLIVING-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:44 AM Subject: [ILLIVING] City and farm directories > Regarding city directories and farm directories, the Pontiac Library had city directories back in the early to mid 1980s, and Newberry Library on West Walton St. in Chicago had several Livingston Co. histories as well as some kind of farm directory. I would suspect the Pontiac Library also has county histories. I do not know if either one does research by mail request. I think not for Newberry. > > Linda (Lightholder) Kmiecik > Researching LIGHTHOLDER and BROWN (both Catholic Famine Immigrant families) and WALTON in Livingston Co. > > > ============================== > Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 > Source for Family History Online. Go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/subscribe/subscribetrial1y.asp?sourcecode=F11HB > >

A movement has been started like that from Desert Storm. During Desert Storm we tied yellow ribbons anywhere we could. Well, now the movement is to tie purple ribbons the same way. This is for two reasons: 1. In remembrance of not only the firefighters, police officers, and paramedics who have died, but also for all who have died in this terrible tragedy. 2. Just as in the military, when a serviceman gets injured, he is given the Purple Heart. Well, our country has been injured to its core. Please pass this on to everyone you know, and let's see purple ribbons everywhere!!

George H. and Mary E. Austin did have children: David R. Austin ( b. abt 1871) Laura M. Austin (b. abt 1873) John A. Austin (b. abt 1874) Clifford Austin (b. abt 1877) Also, George's mother was living with them in 1880 and may be buried in Livingston Co.: Rhoda Austin (b. 1803 - Vt., d. ?) Thanks Charlie Cole WILDCATL72@aol.com

Looking for cemetery, obit, etc. info on the following: George H. Austin (b 1840 NY; d. 11/1/1900 - Odell, Livingston Co., Ill. Mary F. Austin (wife) died ? They may have had children but have no info on them. Thanks Charlie Cole WILDCATL72@aol.com

via www.historychannel.com I found two more times it will air. You're in luck! You may want to tape it! Genealogy.com Special Family Tree Tuesday , September 18 1:00 AM-3:00 AM Benjamin Bratt narrates a 2-hour special that combines the history and mystery of names with a genealogical search. Traveling from ancient China to medieval Europe, from Africa to the Wild West, we search through slavery, the Indian Wars, and the great wave of U.S. immigration. As actor William Baldwin and "Braveheart" screenwriter Randall Wallace trace their family trees, we learn the genealogist's tools and look to the future. Can we move beyond written records to prehistoric times? TV G Genealogy.com Special Family Tree Saturday , September 22 1:00 PM-3:00 PM Benjamin Bratt narrates a 2-hour special that combines the history and mystery of names with a genealogical search. Traveling from ancient China to medieval Europe, from Africa to the Wild West, we search through slavery, the Indian Wars, and the great wave of U.S. immigration. As actor William Baldwin and "Braveheart" screenwriter Randall Wallace trace their family trees, we learn the genealogist's tools and look to the future. Can we move beyond written records to prehistoric times? TV G ----- Original Message ----- From: MJ Bradley <mj_bradley@hotmail.com> To: <ILLIVING-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: [ILLIVING] Re: ILLIVING-D Digest V01 #95 > Do you know if the Family Tree on the History channel will re-air? > I missed it and didn't read my mail until today (Tues) of course!! > > MJB > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp > > > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com >

MJB, I wish I could tell you that. The educational channels here air and re-air but I don't know if the History Channel will or not. You might check this site out to see if they tell. http://tvguide.aol.com/ Shirl in OH ----- Original Message ----- From: "MJ Bradley" <mj_bradley@hotmail.com> To: <ILLIVING-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2001 10:39 AM Subject: [ILLIVING] Re: ILLIVING-D Digest V01 #95 Do you know if the Family Tree on the History channel will re-air? I missed it and didn't read my mail until today (Tues) of course!! MJB _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com

Do you know if the Family Tree on the History channel will re-air? I missed it and didn't read my mail until today (Tues) of course!! MJB _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

For those of you who have History Channel on your cable or satellite service (or who have friends with VCRs who do), a two-hour program called Family Tree will air Monday night at 9 and 1 eastern. It is indeed about our hobby (which I've thought for a long time now would make a good fit for the History Channel....)!