Hello everyone, I have been very busy the past several days and looks like I missed out. I have caught up on reading all my messages now and I'm glad I read them all before I made any responses. I'm happy to see everyone is back on track researching their Johnson County ancestors! Keep up the good work Mara and everyone... Cindy

So Brad... What families are you researching? Can we help each other? I'm always interested in learning more/better information on the families of Johnson County. Is anyone interested in the pension file for one (or maybe two) James Webb??? This pension file may be for two fellows, actually, as there were 2 James Webb's in Johnson County at the time, and there are two women claiming this pension. One James Webb is the son of Mitchell Webb, married to Courtney Boyt? Smith Webb. The other is for a James Webb married to a Susan A. ? Webb and I haven't come to any conclusion on who he is or how he connects to the Mitchell Webb group. I believe the second claimant is for a much younger man who was not yet married as of the 1860 census. Children are involved for both, Courtney moved to Stoddard Co., Mo. and apparently never married again - she & her James had one surviving child, Manirva Jane Webb. Susan had 4 children, 3 boys and a girl, with one of the boys moving West, but never a mention of his name. If anyone is interested, I can send you the transcriptions as a text file. It is 18KB large. Marcia GGCARDS@aol.com wrote: > > dear roots web members, > i apologize for my rude web behavior of the past several days. i had typed in > caps for the sake of the<snip for sake of download speed....> > when i am walking in johnson county's cemeteries, i know that i am walking on > sacred and holy ground. johnson county's ancestors will always mean > everything to me. > sincerely, > brad birkner

Hi All, My apologies to Mara and the list. It has been called to my attention that I use an "o" where an "a" is correct. They don't call me 'fat' fingers for nothing I guess. To error once is forgivable; but twice in the same messages demands a public apology. Groets, Bill P.S. Mara, thanks for the snail; it arrived today. Handsome guys. The JC Heritage Journal arrived today. Who was Sarah J Wittenberg?? William O's daughter?? by whom?? -- from nwoHIo, vriendelijk groeten, Bill ASC, NEGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~negenweb/ NEBRRoots-L@rootsweb.com; sub <NEBRRoots-L-request@rootsweb.com> NEBRHeritage-L@rootsweb.com sub <NEBRHeritage-L-request@rootsweb.com> EKIS Andreas _History of the State of Nebraska_ Project: http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/kancoll/andreas_ne/

I am ready to recognize a missing wolf in sheep's clothing and drag him in! Had I been timidly sifting out the mere possibles, I would never have finished my 445 page book as of one year ago. I would not still be hangin-on for more siftlessness. you should write me about your familys as I have 900 of the So IL. type in my "To the SOIL of So IL".. Some that would seem as errors and some true ones. When I came across Emma and Eva I used them both OR all five of the dif names. For those Dears, recording, who were uneducated but did the recording and guessed or took what they could acquire from whomever, I was grateful and I 'put it down'. I am sure glad that nobody told/caused them to get out of town! It is the generalizing where Brad errored -- but then he would not have had all this good advix huh?..make use of it and cut your travel time right here on line...betty field renshaw, Jefferson co via Saline Co.

dear roots web members, i apologize for my rude web behavior of the past several days. i had typed in caps for the sake of the use of my one good arm, plus, for the sake that not everyone can always read writing typed in lower case letters. johnson county always has and always will mean everything to me. i eat, drink, and sleep johnson county as evidenced by my years of daily journals on johnson county ancestors and people, and my one score plus of volunteer research. i continuously speak about johnson county and southern illinois ancestors at our local church, and have articles written about them in the local church newsletter. our little dog is even named for two civil war veterans from cache twp. i began johnson county research long before there were any of mr. jackson's census indexes, and when the LDS IGI was called CFI, and when there weren't any microfilms of southern illinois vital records that you could order from salt lake city, that you could conveniently research at a local LDS FHC, which were then called branch genealogical libraries. i come from a research "day" when it took a good three hours of going through the Washington D.C.'s national archives' red tape, because of my age at the time, just to be allowed in their microfilm room, and even though i did finally receive permission to enter their microfilm room, i still had to have an adult use the microfilm reader for me, even though i had known how to properly use a microfilm reader for years. the national archives' microfilm copies of the illinois 1850 and 1860 census were much more difficult to read back then, where they were filmed with two pages on a microfilm frame, instead of one page on a frame, and again, as some of you kind others can recall, too, that if you wanted to find an ancestor badly, you had to find their data the old-fashioned way -- you had to rely on yourself to find your ancestor, at least as far as census records are concerned. i come from a day when children weren't allowed in LDS libraries, and yet today, at least at the large LDS library in salt lake city, even infants are allowed. what i earlier stated to the web may not have been right and it may not have been fair, but even as a young person today, i am still remembering how difficult research was twenty to twenty-five years ago, and this is why i was hoping for better research results and techniques. we have all of modern technology has to offer, and hopefully, through God's grace and compassion, we will have even more. research will never be one hundred percent perfect, because we are obviously not living in our great-great-grandfather's day whom we are researching. all i am asking is that we try to improve our research techinques. i know that i will try and that i will try even harder, because i do care about our families' ancestors buried in johnson county, and to me, when i am walking in johnson county's cemeteries, i know that i am walking on sacred and holy ground. johnson county's ancestors will always mean everything to me. sincerely, brad birkner SOUR GRAPES - Funny this is a "PRO" speaking - one that no one has ever heard of???? Personally folks I joined this list and was thrilled to do so - I have had family in Southern Illinois since 1807 and have a vast knowledge of the early history - some is not my personal research but was done by a relative in the 1950s - which research was TOUGH - I have found over the years that 1950s research may have been initially wrong - and corrected later - but that's the name of the game or so I thought. I am now removing my name from this list - if this person is such an 'expert' the rest of you can deal with his stupidity - personally sounds to me like a 15 year old throwing a tantrum - but then that is just my personal opinion - and he can block whatever screen names he chooses so he cannot personally received email - however that's another crimp in the ribbon - he is computer illiterate - but knows how to block mail - plus program an email so it will do a return message with a black screen which is unreadable? Tell me folks- what is WRONG with this picture??????? Jane

dear roots web, this is the third time i've tried to send this. it just keeps coming back to me. anyone who has seriously studied johnson county's tombstones knows that this life is way to short and way too fragile for disagreements, etc. i am publicly apologizing to mara bruce, gayle fuson, and mrs. polston, and to anyone else to whom i said cruel things. genealogy consists of remembering our dead, but it also consists of remembering to be kind to our living. i am hoping that everyone will forgive me. sincerely, brad birkner

dear roots web members, i apologize for my rude web behavior of the past several days. i had typed in caps for the sake of the use of my one good arm, plus, for the sake that not everyone can always read writing typed in lower case letters. johnson county always has and always will mean everything to me. i eat, drink, and sleep johnson county as evidenced by my years of daily journals on johnson county ancestors and people, and my one score plus of volunteer research. i continuously speak about johnson county and southern illinois ancestors at our local church, and have articles written about them in the local church newsletter. our little dog is even named for two civil war veterans from cache twp. i began johnson county research long before there were any of mr. jackson's census indexes, and when the LDS IGI was called CFI, and when there weren't any microfilms of southern illinois vital records that you could order from salt lake city, that you could conveniently research at a local LDS FHC, which were then called branch genealogical libraries. i come from a research "day" when it took a good three hours of going through the Washington D.C.'s national archives' red tape, because of my age at the time, just to be allowed in their microfilm room, and even though i did finally receive permission to enter their microfilm room, i still had to have an adult use the microfilm reader for me, even though i had known how to properly use a microfilm reader for years. the national archives' microfilm copies of the illinois 1850 and 1860 census were much more difficult to read back then, where they were filmed with two pages on a microfilm frame, instead of one page on a frame, and again, as some of you kind others can recall, too, that if you wanted to find an ancestor badly, you had to find their data the old-fashioned way -- you had to rely on yourself to find your ancestor, at least as far as census records are concerned. i come from a day when children weren't allowed in LDS libraries, and yet today, at least at the large LDS library in salt lake city, even infants are allowed. what i earlier stated to the web may not have been right and it may not have been fair, but even as a young person today, i am still remembering how difficult research was twenty to twenty-five years ago, and this is why i was hoping for better research results and techniques. we have all of modern technology has to offer, and hopefully, through God's grace and compassion, we will have even more. research will never be one hundred percent perfect, because we are obviously not living in our great-great-grandfather's day whom we are researching. all i am asking is that we try to improve our research techinques. i know that i will try and that i will try even harder, because i do care about our families' ancestors buried in johnson county, and to me, when i am walking in johnson county's cemeteries, i know that i am walking on sacred and holy ground. johnson county's ancestors will always mean everything to me. sincerely, brad birkner

Echoes from Elvira Aug 1995 AXLEY--CARRIKER My g-g grandmother was ELIZABETH EMMALINE AXLEY. She was buried , married and died in Illinois and may have lived her whole life in Johnson Co. She married LORENZO GEORGE WASHINGTON McNABB in 1848. I believe she was the daughter of ELIJAH AXLEY and NANCY MERCER and was b. ca. 1832. I have been unable to find her death date but LORENZO G. W. McNABB md. 1866 MELISSA CAROLINE (WORLEY) CARRIKER, the widow of CHARLIE CARRIKER. I would appreciate any info on this line of my family. Mrs. Frances Carrujer Mesneak, 1965 Westside Hwy., #47, Kelso, WA 98626 MOHLER Information need on the MOHLER family. The earlies MOHLER in the area that we know of was PINK MOHLER who owned a store in Goreville and d. in the late 1920's or early 1930'. Johnson Co Marr. Lic. Book B Shows PINKNEY W. MOHLER to MARY F. GIBSON. Interested in PINK MOHLER and his children and GEORGE MOHLER md. BERTHA LEE MOULTON and his children. Any assistance and infomation would be greatly appreciated. Richard L. O'Brien, 92 W. Richard Dr., Oswego, IL 60543 ELKINS-GORE Seek information about the location of graves of SARAH (SALLY) W. (GORE) ELKINS, b. 1795 SC d. Johnson Co. 1857 and husband RICHARD ELKINS b. 1797 GA d. Johnson Co. 1851. I have been told they're buried in a "Gore" Cemetery nw of Vienna IL and supposedly there are headstones. I am also seeking other descendants. Any help or advice is welcome. Also Seeking info. of JOHN (b. ca 1825 TN) and ELIZABETH (b. 1827 Johnson Co. IL) (ELKINS) Kerr. Daughter of CYNTHIA, b. ca 1849. ELIZABETH was the daughter of RICHARD & SARAH W. (GORE) ELKINS. She died by 1860. Joan Rose, 800 N. Smith Re. #24 Z Bloomington IN 47408

This was printed in Echoes From Elvira Aug. 1995 Alexander County Profiles--Women's Clubs & Library Ass'n, 1968 Ida Louis Bellamy-Peterson-Culo-Smith--An Oral History--compiled RebaSingleton Smith Jr., 1993 Bundren Family and Allied Families--Index 1986 Rix Carter Family--also Dunsworth Carter Family History Descendency Charts Patrick Corgan 1760-1848--Doris Corgan Jones, 1986 The Forefathers of Green Randolph Casey Chapman Family History---David Chapman The Cooley Family History--Phillip Cooley Competer 1980 Joseph Crain of Pettis County, Mo--Vivian Patterson Crain The John Adam Cruse & Rosanna Cress Family ---Paul D. Dillow, 1994 The Dameron--Damron Genealogy--Helen Foster Snow, 1953 Deaton Family with familes of Wilson Carey, Buie, Clendenin, Walker and Wrags A Century in Egypt (Elkins Family) by J. A. Elkins 1925, reprinted 1992 Family of Mrs. Corbin Fracis---Mary Ann Boazz Francis 1798-1960 Francis Family Group Sheet with other Related families Frizzell Family History-Also Mount Gore, Simmons, Hooker, Poor A Memoir of the Life of James Gryson Gillespie History of Green Family of Williamson & Johnson Counties Growing up in Pusstown -- Tilford Sanders Gurley & Allied Families -- 4 large 3 ring binders of Family Group Sheets and Records. Hester Family Group Sheets Hogg Family and Miscellaneious Obituaries and Marriages A Lawrence Legacy: the Descendants of William Marshall Lawrence--Charley Moore, 1988 The Family McCuan Two Hundred Years with the McFatridges Book of Remembrance--Woodson S. McCuan & Amanda Cornish The Marshall Family--W. M. Paxton, 1988

A History of William Mount I Family and Ancestors with excepts of Grissom Family -- Gale Robertson Reid The Family Mosier--A Record of Ten Generations 1743-1990's (with Webb and Casey Family Histories) Pedigree Charts (Charts sent to the ECHO) The Life of S. D. Poor--S. D. Poor The History of the Jackson Family Qualls from Halifax County, North Carolina Ragsdale, Pearce, Kerr Families Ridenhour or Ridenhower Group Sheets Reitenauer/Reutenauer/Rheitehhauer/Ridenoure/Ridenour--Melvin Otho Ridenour, 1991 The James & Eliza Ritchey fAmily 1700-1976 Some Southern Colonial Families --Four volumes--by David A. Avan, Jr 1991 Southern Illinois Rushings (working Notes)--David Donahue, 1994 The Schlenker Family in Lothrigen, in Russia and in America, Vo. II--by Dr. John L. Schlenker 1990 Grandfather was Always a Very Old Man (Sistler Genealogy)--Bryon Sistler Abraham Owen Smoot-- Loretta D. Nixon & L. Douglas Smoot The Turley Family Tree Warder Family in Virginia, Kentucky and Illinois--Walter Warder, Cariro, 1934 Vaughn Family Group Sheets We Veitches, Veatches, Veaches, Veeches-An Historical Treasury of the Descendants of James Veithc, the Sheriffe--by Lawrence R. Guthrie & Wanda Veatch Clark, 1974. Bible Records of Watkins-Casteels-Coats-Peterson-Southern Illinois and Tennessee-1882-1930 Webbs and Other Characters at the Dixon Springs Experimental Station-Bowie Buffiner Webb Hannah Hezekiah West, A Revolutionary War Soldier West-Carter-Osbourn and Related Family Information James A. Whiteside Family of Virginia, Arkansas and Illinois, 1790-1803 Well thats all for listed in this issue. For those of you who haven't been the library in Vienna the librarian has a notebook sitting on the table for visitors to in and list which names they are researching. She said she did this because so many times she had people visiting who came in right after one another researching the same names but they didn't know one another. ttyl Mara P. S.There are more holdings from another issue I will type as I get to it.

ILJOHNSO-D-request@rootsweb.com wrote: > ============================snip===pun intended=========== > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: POSSIBLE RULES AND GUIDELINES JOHNSON COUNTY ROOTS WEB > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 16:15:14 EST > From: GGCARDS@aol.com > To: ILJOHNSO-L@rootsweb.com > > HI EVERYONE, > HERE'S HOPING THAT ANY EXISTING RULES AND GUIDELINES CONCERNING QUERIES AND > PUBLISHED JOHNSON COUNTY INFORMATION SENT TO THE JOHNSON COUNTY ROOTS WEB, MAY > BE RESTRICTED TO OUR OWN INDIVIDUAL ANCESTRAL FAMILIES WHOM WE ARE ACQUAINTED > WITH, OR WHOM WE HAVE STUDIED AND/OR RESEARCHED AND DOCUMENTED; OR THAT > QUERIES AND PUBLISHED JOHNSON COUNTY INFORMATION BE SUBMITTED CONCERNING OUR > ANCESTRAL FAMILIES' NEIGHBORS AND/OR FRIENDS, OF WHOM WE HAVE THOROUGHLY > RESEARCHED AND DOCUMENTED. I'M SURE NOBODY WOULD WANT SOMEONE ELSE TELLING > OTHERS THAT YOUR GRANDMOTHER'S NAME IS "EVA", WHEN YOU PERSONALLY KNEW YOUR > OWN GRANDMOTHER , AND YOU KNOW HER NAME IS 'EMMA", FOR EXAMPLE. THIS > PROCEDURE WILL CUT DOWN ON COSTLY REPEATED RESEARCH ERRORS, AND WILL PROMOTE > MORE ACCURACY, AND GREATER HONOR AND REMEMBRANCE, IN THE LONG RUN, FOR OUR > JOHNSON COUNTY ANCESTORS FOR WHOM I HOPE WE ARE DOING THIS RESEARCH FOR. > SINCERELY, BRAD BIRKNER > > ______________________________ > > Hi Good Folks, I DO NOT normally expend energy to read let alone answer messages such as the above. Since I am in an exceptional mood today I'll make the exception. <grin> The typing is toooo difficult to read when in all caps. All CAPS indicated "SHOUTING" to most of us who have been around awhile. I normally try to read between two and eight hundred messages a day. An impossible task ... thus, I delete many that do not have the courtesy to follow simple courtesy [redundant usage intended], insist on anonymity, and/or feel that they do not need to follow instructions for posting queries and surnames on the various county sites I sponser for USGenWeb. Still, I will say that often [especially right after Christmas with all the new computers and online service] there is an influx of this type of message. Mostly from "newbies". So, Brad is this is the case in your case, re-read Mora's post to this list in response to your post. Great non-hostile advice. Mora and I have corresponded for awhile and she sure does help me, every collateral name she brings up is one step closer to connect my blood lines. A hearty thank you to such as her!! Groets, Bill -- from nwoHIo, vriendelijk groeten, Bill ASC, NEGenWeb http://www.rootsweb.com/~negenweb/ NEBRRoots-L@rootsweb.com; sub <NEBRRoots-L-request@rootsweb.com> NEBRHeritage-L@rootsweb.com sub <NEBRHeritage-L-request@rootsweb.com> EKIS Andreas _History of the State of Nebraska_ Project: http://www.ukans.edu/carrie/kancoll/andreas_ne/

Hi Everyone I thought we could get back to the business of straighten out all our lines <G>. Lets let it end here. I understand your frustration Brad. Your apology is accepted. I will try to see what I can dig up at the Library on Monday. Thought I would look through old IL Hist. Soc. magazines. I'll let y'all know what I dig up. ttyl Mara

Hey Greg... Just start typing! Seriously, tho, if you come across George or Morris Bell, Francis LeRoy or John Parks, or Manerva Casey, I'd be interested. Thanks, Marcia Greg Simmons wrote: > > I have old copies of the Vienna Times on Microfilm from > Sept.19,1889 through Oct.18,1894. I can look up any thing if you provide > a date and name. > Greg Simmons

There is an old saying "Mama's baby - Daddy's maybe. . " The reason that angels can fly . . . they take life with a light touch. Carol Seeking, CLENDENIN, EDMONDSON, JOHNS, HORN(E) and others. Carol

I agree with Mara. Most folks don't mind if you get their grandma's name wrong...it gives them an opportunity to talk with you and hopefully opens a door to sharing more info. Which is what I thought we were all wanting to do on the list. Regina On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 MBruce9681@aol.com wrote: > Hi Brad > what is this regarding rules for sharing? I have done the alot of sharing on > this list. Is there something you feel I am doing wrong? I have most all > the names I have shared in my file. I think its up to us on our particular > family lines to document them. I however have found clues even in wrong > information. Take Mrs. P. T. Chapman's book A History of Johnson County > Illinois. She has numerous errors in genealogy however, her inforamtion been > a place to begin. Anyone who takes information face value deserves what they > get. > I hope that everyone gets involved and shares whatever they have in hopes that > we all may find the truth. > Anyway--no hard feelings--just my two cents. > >

Sounds great to me Maria. I love reading about all the familes on the list even if my Simmons did not mary into them. Besides we are sending correct information. It is the information that we have on our ancestors. I have said before when doing research in Johnson County our ancestors were not always called by their real names. They had and used other names and they recorded these names on Deeds, Birth and Marriage records. I have a Barton Simmons in my family who had his named recorded several different ways. On his birth records for his children its listed as Barton or Bartlet. In the Federal census of 1850 he's listed as Bartley. In a marrige record for one of his daughters I found out his name was John B. Simmons. I never even knew his name was John. Go Figure. I enjoy this list lets keep it the way it is. Greg Simmons

I received a message from someone suggesting that we be very sure that the information we send out be accurate and that we not send out deliberatly false or misleading information. In other words if I share information, (which I always do) I have to promise that its honest, accurate, and that it is honestly researched and documented.!!...Ive been to two county fairs and a hog calling contest and nobody ever accused me of deliberate dishonesty before or told me how to provide greater honor to my (and your) ancestors. I dont believe we need any more rules or rulers..and I resent all the implications contained in the message.and suggest that the sender reflect on his own behavior and leave mine alone......Al Cassell hcviii@ott.net

Let me add my voice to the fracas... Post it ALL, I say... I love seeing Mara's generous postings. She cites her source, and you can go hunt it up yourself, if you have the resources to do so. Some of us have a hard time accessing such records. I, for one, am grateful to see anything! In fact, I think we should post all our responses back to the list, as sooner or later, most of the families cross up somewhere... or at least it seems to me that they do! I'm so stuck on some lines, I'd be glad to read out-and-out LIES just to know that these people really did exist! Okay... I'm getting carried away ... not lies. You never know when you'll find a golden nugget (right, Greg & Kathy????) Anyone care to have me post civil war affidavits of some Webbs? Some are curiously interesting... and who knows??? maybe one was witnessed by one of your relatives! Marcia - a confusing array of Parks, Webb, Kelly, Casey, Perkins, Bell, et al :-D

Hi everyone... Frankly, I'll take every little tidbit of information I can get... It's up to me to prove or disprove and sort it all out...Just keep up all the good work that you all are doing... I really enjoy everything that comes over the link... Nancy Jane Polston-Vinson That's right !! Everyone calls me Jane.

The following is a quote from a msg I received earlier this evening: "ERRONEOUS ANCESTRAL FAMILY INFORMATION DEBLIBERATELY AND PURPOSELY BEING SENT OUT. THIS IS THE SAD "WHY." This was is (answer?) to my earlier msg asking what was going on. It is quite obvious to me that someone has decided to take it upon themselves to create list problems - there can be no other reason for the statements I am seeing - and the method the individual is using to create problems. Anyone with a legitimate concern about this list would not go to the extreme effort of (1) NOT having a profile online and (2) programming a return message that comes up with a BLACK screen which is unreadable and unanswerable. I have been doing research for 18 years - and have enjoyed it every minute - we don't need someone coming in and "writing" the rules over the listowner - and I for one don't have time to teach you BRAD the grammer you should have learned in 3d grade. Jane