All, Recently I received some probate records from Bobbi Oxford in Hamilton County. They were very interesting, dating in the late 1850s and early 1860s. Naturally, no question is answered without twenty more questions surfacing. In a document listing the estate of the deceased Allen MUNSELL, (the elder brother), one of his younger siblings (Richard) was named administrator In the documents, it referred to the fact that there was no widow. The heirs mentioned were "thirteen heirs". This is the exact number of his living siblings. To our knowledge, Allen never married and had no children. A "typo"? In another document, Rebecca MUNSELL transfered administrator duties of her deceased husband's estate (Harry MUNSELL) to the Harry's brother Richard, stating the children were minors. As far as we can tell from family information, and as far as we can tell from the other probate records, there were no children from this marriage. Was the reference to minor children an error - a sort of "typo"? The heirs actually listed by name were "Major" siblings and "Minor" siblings (over and under 21 of course and all listed by name), including "the heirs of Allen MUNSELL" (Allen was an older brother of the deceased Harry, and these supposed heirs were not listed by name). Allen had no wife and no children as far as we know. Another "typo"? Have any of you had similar inconsistencies in such documents (I'm sure they abound!)? Would you recommend going with known information, or trying to pursue these anomalies, or what? I really think they are the ante-bellum version of bureaucratic typos... you know, sort of "standard language" in such documents that no one caught and corrected at the time. But what do you all think? I would like to get these docs online at some point - there are oh-so-many Hamilton County names, including many mentions of Flanagan and Biggerstaff. I would just scan them and put them online as images, but the photocopying was none too good, and to be searchable, it should go up as a text file. I'll do it eventually. Thanks in advance. It was because of this great list that I got enough info to be able to write Bobbi Oxford in McLeansboro for the documents. It took a long time (were listed under MUNDELL not MUNSELL), but it was just great getting them! Cordah researching gr3grandfather Ira MUNSELL b 1790 somewhere in VT Cordah Elizabeth Robinson ISS/UITS Teaching and Learning Technologies Lab IU-Bloomington Ballantine Hall 307 855.7829 http://www.indiana.edu/~tltl/

I also have probate papers from Hamilton Co., IL. After having the very same questions, I went to a legal historian who informed me that, whether a person was married or not, at the time of probate, it must be stated that they had no spouse living to claim the estate. (That ends any future action by another party to claim the estate.) Also all minor heirs must be listed or disclaimed. Often, a woman received no fee for being the administrator of an estate, but a man could collect a fee and was able to take expenses out of the estate as needed, so many women turned the administration over to another relative and billed their expenses through them. In many cases, there had to be a reason to turn the estate over to another relative (other than the inequality in the law), and having minor heirs in the will provided that reason. Hope this helps. Peg Spencer > Allen never married and had no children. A "typo"? > > Rebecca MUNSELL transfered administrator duties > of her deceased husband's estate (Harry MUNSELL) to the Harry's brother > Richard, stating the children were minors. Was the reference to > minor children an error?

Cordah, You sound like you have a "mixed bag" of heirs,siblings and missing spouses like I have experienced. And when going from one sibling's probate records to another the mystery can grown deeper by the minute...<smile>. Here are a few things I've learned in a short period of time working with some of my kin's probate records from early to late 1800s in Hamilton CO .. and still learning more every day. An individual could legally decline to serve as an executor/administrator if so designated in a will and petition for another to serve instead. This could happen when a designated person lived out of the area where the desceased's estate was being probated or for other reasons of convience. Also, if the deceased died without a will the court could appoint an administrator upon petition to the court of a sibling or on behave of the heirs. It is correct that if no spouse existed "at the time of probate, it must be stated that they had no spouse living to claim the estate.(That ends any future action by another party to claim the estate.) Also all minor heirs must be listed or disclaimed." This is almost correct. If someone where to provide to the court a legal record of marriage to the deceased unknown regardless of this statement,it would not prevent claims against the estate. The same would hold true for children born to the deceased in or out of wedlock. This is one of the legal reasons for "posting" the death of an individual even today so that "any" claims against the estate can be filed. What the statement "no spouse" does is in essence redistributes his or her portion under the law to the other heirs. In many states you will see in old land records where a man is married and sells land off to someone else and where his wife had to agree in a separate statement to this action; the reason being she was entitled to 1/3 of his estate under the law in many jurisdictions. It would be legally incorrect to state in a document that there were minors if in fact there were not. So if there is a statement indicating minors of Allen (and not just minor siblings)then it is probable that at the time of his death there may have been one or more minor children who did not survive to adulthood and hence you might not find records of this child(children). There may have been a minor child of Allen's by an unknown mother who was adopted into one of Allen's sibling's family and raised as their own ...unless you find the original birth record or a legal adoption action it is unlikely you would recognize that they were not that particular sibling's child. If the minor received benefit of the estate though there should be in most cases guardianship papers filed with the court. These may not be in the probate packet but registered elsewhere and even as much as two or three years after the parents death if the probate action took an extended period of time to settle. Look in the nearest census record after Allen's death in the household of his brothers and sisters and see if there are any new children that appear that were not there in the previous census. Don't assume that the correct surname would be applied to this child if in household of a sister in the census. Unless you can nail these children down later from obits and death records that lock in the parents then keep open the option in the back of your mind that he or she or they may be off-spring of your Allen. I found exactly this situation from one census to another in one of my own family lines in KY where the father died,mother remarried, children show up next census under correct surname and by the following census are shown under step-father's surname..though no legal document found for adoption...and later one of the girls married using her legal surname but the adopted parent's name passed into family memory as the maiden name. Talk about confusion for over a hundred years. Thankfully she had a brother with a rather unique given name that was the give away...and the fact that the step-father and mother were in the same dwelling two census enumerations in a row...otherwise the mystery would never have been figured out. Similiar to your situation I have a probate record that indicates no widow, or children, only siblings and the heirs of one of the siblings. I could not find a record for the marriage of this deceased sibling with heirs until I started reading land records that were drawn before this probate action and found where the "deceased sibling" had been married and could deduce that both he and his wife had died prior to the death of his brother. Then a record showed up dated a number of years later showing one of these "sibling heirs" to be in fact a child that was not otherwise noted in any records I had seen before. If I remember correctly it was the obit or marriage record of an individual that thankfully mentioned her husband's family as well. The term "heir(s)" is a legal term that applies to those who under the prevailing law who receive benefit under the estate of the deceased individual. Someone could be a designated heir within a will or an "heir under the law" if no will was drawn. So the term for 13 siblings as heirs is correct...and so is the term for heirs of Allen MUNSELL. His siblings,etc. would be considered heirs under the law...as would parents,etc. However, I would not discount the possibility that Allen had a child...in or out of marriage. Hope this doesn't confuse the issue more but sure don't want to miss any branches and twiggs that might belong on your family tree. You said that there were many other surnames mentioned in the documents...could you give us a quick summary of the names and time frames found in some of them? Any loose GIBSON or CURRY floating around in there? ^ ^ (@ @ ) =o= \ | | \ m m n \9 ~O&:> Barb in Savannah,GA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cordah Elizabeth Robinson" <cordah@indiana.edu> To: <ILHAMILT-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 5:04 PM Subject: [ILHAMILT-L] children/no children; heirs/no heirs : All, : : Recently I received some probate records from Bobbi Oxford in Hamilton : County. They were very interesting, dating in the late 1850s and early : 1860s. Naturally, no question is answered without twenty more questions : surfacing. : : In a document listing the estate of the deceased Allen MUNSELL, (the elder : brother), one of his younger siblings (Richard) was named administrator : In the documents, it referred to the fact that there was no widow. The : heirs mentioned were "thirteen heirs". This is the exact number of his : living siblings. To our knowledge, Allen never married and had no : children. A "typo"? : : In another document, Rebecca MUNSELL transfered administrator duties : of her deceased husband's estate (Harry MUNSELL) to the Harry's brother : Richard, stating the children were minors. As far as we can tell from : family information, and as far as we can tell from the other probate : records, there were no children from this marriage. Was the reference to : minor children an error - a sort of "typo"? The heirs actually listed by : name were "Major" siblings and "Minor" siblings (over and under 21 of : course and all listed by name), including "the heirs of Allen MUNSELL" : (Allen was an older brother of the deceased Harry, and these supposed : heirs were not listed by name). Allen had no wife and no children as : far as we know. Another "typo"? : : Have any of you had similar inconsistencies in such documents (I'm sure : they abound!)? Would you recommend going with known information, or : trying to pursue these anomalies, or what? I really think they are the : ante-bellum version of bureaucratic typos... you know, sort of "standard : language" in such documents that no one caught and corrected at the time. : But what do you all think? : : I would like to get these docs online at some point - there are oh-so-many : Hamilton County names, including many mentions of Flanagan and : Biggerstaff. I would just scan them and put them online as images, but the : photocopying was none too good, and to be searchable, it should go up as a : text file. I'll do it eventually. : : Thanks in advance. It was because of this great list that I got enough : info to be able to write Bobbi Oxford in McLeansboro for the documents. It : took a long time (were listed under MUNDELL not MUNSELL), but it was just : great getting them! : : Cordah : researching gr3grandfather Ira MUNSELL b 1790 somewhere in VT : : Cordah Elizabeth Robinson : ISS/UITS Teaching and Learning Technologies Lab : IU-Bloomington Ballantine Hall 307 855.7829 : http://www.indiana.edu/~tltl/ : : : ==== ILHAMILT Mailing List ==== : Listowner, Michael L. Hebert mailto:mhebert.usgw@home.com : --------------------------------------------------------- : This list is sponsored by the RootsWeb Genealogical Data Cooperative. : Please help support Rootsweb: : http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/how-to-subscribe.html : :