[email protected] (Pj) writes: > I personally think the multiple spellings of a surname was born of > circumstance > rather than cleverness. Maybe he couldn't spell his last name and neither > could the > census taker or town hall clerk. I am with Pj. My family started out as WINBOURNE - an English man of obvious stature, as he was given land rights to plant in Virginia from the King in the early 1600's. The WINBOURNES lived in Virginia for about 50 years. As it was a wilderness, I have to think that schooling was very basic, and perhaps WINBOURNE himself had to do the schooling for his children and grandchildren. By 1700, WINBOURNE's grandchildren's last name became WINBORNE, (no "U") as noted in will documents. Perhaps the original Planter WINBOURNE and his children, who may have been schooled back in Britain in proper English schools, may have been the only teachers for his offspring in the new world. By the 1700's, the WINBORNEs began to migrate to North Carolina, where they lost the "E", then into the deep wilderness of Kentucky, where I'm sure reading 'riting and 'rithmetic was taught by the parents or some other make-shift school house. Around that time, the farming WINBORN family became WINBURN forever. Ironically, another branch of WINBORNE's migrated to South Carolina and Alabama in the late 1700's or early 1800's - where their name magically became WINBURN as well. Valerie

Over the past week I have read so much about how our ancestors names have been spelled and misspelled and spelled differently. I finally have to tell of my experience with the census. For several years I've been looking for my GGrandfather Robert Windsor (Fulton County, IL) when Ancestry.com indexed the Nebraska 1920 census, there he was listed as Father-In-Law living with my Grandparents, Floyd and Georgia (Windsor) MILLARD however the census taker and written his name as Robert Van Windsor(or VonWindsor). This is the first and only time he was listed this way. My only clue for looking in Nebraska was the fact that I knew my Grandparents had moved to Nebraska around the 1920's. It is interesting that my Grandfather Floyd Millard is also listed in the 1920 census for Fulton Co as living with his parents, Oscar and Alpharetta Millard. FYI, my GGrandmother Alpharetta DeMaranville Millard was always called Etta, maybe the person doing the search for Etta May, could try using Alpharetta, maybe Etta was a common nickname for Alpharetta. Just a thought. Lucille researching MILLARD, WINDSOR, DEMARANVILLE, BORDNER

In a message dated 12/4/2002 8:29:59 PM US Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > Valerie, I did several searches on Ancestry.com of the 1920 and 1930 census > images and I couldn't find any record of your great-grandmother. I used > spelling variations of the surname "Wagner" and still found nothing. I even > searched the statewide death index with no results. In 1944, she would have > been about 65 years of age. Have you been able to locate her obit? > Kay Hi Kay! Thank you so much for trying to help me. Now I know that it wasnt just my poor census browsing skills. She just isnt there. About 2 years ago, I visited the Schuyler County Gen Society where I heard they had albums full of obits from the counties surrounding that area (McDonough and Fulton included). Page by page I searched - but there was nothing. But these were just a spattering of collected obits - not a full record of all obits. As I reached the last pages without a trace of May, my hopes were dashed. So I headed to the small town of Vermont where she was last known to live in 1944. I walked the cemetary - stone by stone. I went to a small cafe where the waitress told me on Wed nights they held a women's club gathering and the ladies would all have lived in Vermont in 1944. That dear woman then CALLED the leader of this club!! --- but again --- no one knew of May WAGNER. So they suggested I go to the house of the man who used to run the local funeral parlor during those years. Desperate to find May, with only one day to research before heading back to Indiana, I did. But he was not happy that I knocked on his door, and he snapped at me that he had given all records to another funeral company in McComb. I called that company -- and they said May WAGNER was not on record. But I had found a cousin of mine online a few years prior. He was related to me thru May's sister, Sarah BREEDEN. His wife Connie took me to May's mothers grave in McDonough (Scotts Cemetary). There are other relatives of May there, but not May. (As far as I know). She also said they remember a relative telling them that they had attended May's funeral but could not remember where -- they are guessing this would be sometime in the 1940's, and somewhere in that tri-county area. Connie had a copy of Mays brother Newton INGRAM's obituary of 1944 from McComb, McDonough County, which shows May was alive and living in Vermont, IL. Maybe this obit is wrong and leading me astray?? Was May ever remarried? Did she die with a different last name??? Woe is me. Connie typed her brother's obit from 1944 for me as follows: Newton INGRAM, 1225 East Pierce street, died at the Phelps Hospital about 3:00a.m. yesterday after an illiness of one year. Funeral services will be held at 2:00 p.m. tomorrow at the Dodsworth funeral home. Rev. C.C. Mordling will officiate, with the burial at Scotts cemetery. He was the Son of Marire (Uriah) and Permelia Ingram and was born January 17, 1872, in Schuyler county. He resided in Bethel township before moving to Macomb. In 1912 he married Mary Nancy Clark, who died about three months ago. They had no children. He is survived by five sisters, Mesdames May Wagner of Vermont, Sarah Alice Breeden of LaPrairie, Frances Mason of Macomb, Belle Cracraft and Jane Scalf of Beatrice, Neb. Two Brothers, Jasper and Charles Ingram are deceased. * * * * * * END OBIT Connie added: The obit of Mary Nancy Clark Ingram list seven grandchildren. Oren Mason, Silas Mason, and Jess Mason, of Macomb, Clarence Mason of Beardstown, Mrs. Ocie Vogler of Colchester, Clem Mason and Mrs Oacle Hendrickson of Macomb. Her obit said they were married May 18, 1911. I want to thank all the people who have volunteered to do these extra searches for me like Kay above did, and thank you to all who have sent me suggestions of what to do next. I very much appreciate them all! You are all angels. THANK YOU! Hope you all have a blessed Holiday Season! Valerie

Valerie, I too searched for Etta "May" using every possible combination - even going as far as just searching for Ettas and Mays in Illinois. Still no luck... Sorry. Cathy

My grandmothers were born in 1882 and 1889. Neither had more than a six grade education, yet neither was ignorant. They loved the written word, were soft spoken, interested in world events, and politically correct for their time. Their penmanship was terrible. They knew how to express ideas very well, but reading the results in 2002 is a challenge unless you know that the "W" that has you stumped is actually a "M", but the "M" could also be an "N" and sometimes the "Q" is actually the letter "P" Thirty years earlier my 3x grandfathers surname was spelled three different ways on his marriage license, but by the 1870 census had settled on one spelling for the surname of his children. In 2002 the IL Marriage Index spells the surname as it was written on the license which is not the surname of my grandmother. I personally think the multiple spellings of a surname was born of circumstance rather than cleverness. Maybe he couldn't spell his last name and neither could the census taker or town hall clerk. Maybe he had a speech impediment. Or maybe the writer knew a family whose surname sounded the same and he could spell their name. And how about the immigrant who added a distinct brogue or guttural sound to the pronunciation of his surname? The German language, for instance, has no letter "W," and the sound (double u) does not exist. Thus a common word like "water" sounds like "vater." The Spanish have no "J," or any pronunciation for it, in their language. The town San Jose in neighbouring Mason County becomes San Hose - aa in Mexico. Old Dutch surnames are just as unwieldy. Hans' daughter, Annetje, might well be recorded as Annette Handotter. Langestaet, a town in Holland, became the surname of the Longstreet family in the New World. There are many other exceptions to surnames. Nicknames are a good example. How many of those found their way into old documents? Just discovering the roots of a surname can be an exciting adventure. Whether a lawyer was smart because he could spell a surname more than one way could be debated. Perhaps he lived in an area like New York where he was exposed to a greater range of surnames and spellings. Our "world" was actually pretty small prior to the Revolutionary War, and settling the wild west was as much a challenge to pioneers, as it was to lawyers and the folks who recorded the events. Pj

Dear Dawn and Listers: Dawn wrote: > No telling what you will find if you look at the images! This is sure true! I was looking through the Marshalltown, Iowa census for, I think it was 1920, and found where every inmate in an asylum was noted as being "single" and not married. There was a note written across the page that said that everyone was counted as being "single" just because they were in the asylum! Maybe it had to do with laws and power of attorney. Any observations? Judy L.

In a message dated 12/5/2002 3:18:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > I thought Julia's comments were interesting and had a lot of merit. I thought so too. I have read it several times and it has helped me explain to a new family searcher on how to look for her family. After the posting, she found 3 folks by searching the name differently. (¯`'·.¸(¯`'·.¸ ¸.·'´¯)¸.·'´¯) «-«-«-==-- Carla --==-»-»-» (_¸.·'´(_¸.·'´ `'·.¸_)`'·.¸_) http://www.picturetrail.com/CarlaFinley Florida "Do all the good you can, and make as little fuss as possible about it." Dickens

In a message dated 12/5/02 2:07:31 PM Central Standard Time, [email protected] writes: << I merely forwarded what Julia sent to one of the genealogy lists I'm on. I had her email address right at the top of the email and her name at the very bottom. I thought it was an interesting message worth passing on. Lisa >> Lisa - I thought Julia's comments were interesting and had a lot of merit. I appreciated getting the forward. We can all learn from each other. When I read or hear different comments from a lot of different people on an issue, I sort through and keep in my head what makes sense and the rest I put in the "Senior Moment" file. Lyde

I've received negative replies after FORWARDING the message [that follows at the end of this one] to all the genealogy lists I belong to! One man emailed me saying that a teacher unsubscribed from a list because I posted it! If you have no use for a particular post to a group, just hit the delete key. That's so easy and that's what I do. I merely forwarded what Julia sent to one of the genealogy lists I'm on. I had her email address right at the top of the email and her name at the very bottom. I thought it was an interesting message worth passing on. Lisa ~~~ Visit my pages: http://www.homepagez.com/neb/index.html --- From: <[email protected]> Not mispelled - just spelled differently. It is hard for those of us in the 20th century education to understand that before the social security system (1930's) and driver's license (1920's) people did not have an attachment to the spelling of a name. The name was spelled however the person writing down wanted to spell it. In fact it was a sign of an educated person to be able to spell a name several ways and you will find this in some deeds where there may be 5 or 6 different spellings in the same document. In one class I went to a lecturer had a deed the spelled the man's name 11 different ways. It was said, reportedly by an early President that "I would not trust a lawyer who could spell a name only one way." This was because if he was not educated enough to spell a name several ways, he was probably not a very good lawyer. SO don't say mispelled as that implies a mistake, it was just spelled differently. Julia Coldren-Walker

Alice, et al, Just a thought in case I didn't mention it earlier. My local public library has access to Ancestry Plus as well as Genealogy.com and Heritage Quest. Through my library, I can access Heritage Quest from home (using a password) but it takes a long time to bring up census pages since my service is slow. The other two must be accessed at the library and computer time is limited. Others might want to check to see what services are available in their areas. This apparently varies from county to county within the state library system. Also, I just found out yesterday that Heritage Quest will no long provide loan of census on microfilm to libraries. The LDS Family History Centers will still provide order census film. Does anyone know of other sources where microfilm census material may be ordered? If so, what are the requirements? Gloria

The usgennet.net is off line. The usgenweb.com is online and very healthy. Pj

Fellow listers Put this in the "for what it's worth" category. This afternoon I tried to access the Peoria County US GenWeb page only to learn that it crashed Thanksgiving Day Weekend. They are in the process of raising funds to purchase a new server, but no date is given. The page is supposed to be available at a temporary link (somebody's private web page), but I didn't find it. I have notified our list administrator of this and other broken links I found this afternoon on the Fulton County US GenWeb Page. Jim

Yes, rootsweb.com does have some census indexed. various states,various years. It is FREE ! Home page at rootsweb.com , HOSTED VOLUNTEER PROJECT, USGenweb Census Project. Completed Standard/Completed Transcriptions. The index for 1870 census for Fulton Co. IL. is there. I don't know if ALL townships are included or completed. could be other years too,for Fulton County. Tina _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

I also have had good luck finding ancestors in the census images on Ancestry.com. It is a slow and painstaking process to search an unindexed census for a particular year. I also appreciate the downloadable census extraction forms, they make recording any information I find a simple task. My biggest complaint is that the earliest census records didn't include all the information I need and want!! Kay

Valerie, I did several searches on Ancestry.com of the 1920 and 1930 census images and I couldn't find any record of your great-grandmother. I used spelling variations of the surname "Wagner" and still found nothing. I even searched the statewide death index with no results. In 1944, she would have been about 65 years of age. Have you been able to locate her obit? Kay

I have read with interest all of the comments, pro and con to these subscriptions. Now for my own experience. I have a subscription to both services for the census and also some other data, and am very satisfied. As has been stated, some years are indexed on each service. I have had very good luck finding hundreds of families in all census years. If they aren't indexed, I just search the old fashioned way, that is browse, page by page. Sure it is slow, but what good research isn't time consuming. Sure there are errors in the index, but what type record doesn't have errors? Like all sources, we normally expect more than we get. The transcribed records from most all sources have errors. Our own records probably contain errors that we made. Prior to on-line census capability, I was spending about $150 a year to rent microfilm, so my subscription money is well spent and I don't have to wait two weeks to get a film. I can hop from place to place on-line, all in the same day. As to which one is best, you can decide. Ancestry.com has all census images on line. Genealogy.com is heading that way, but not there yet. If you are going to subscribe to only one, probably the one that has indexed the years you are most interested in would be best for you. Each have some good indexes, both contain errors. When one of them gets all years indexed, I will probably drop the other one. I am researching the following names in Fulton county. COOPER, RUTLEDGE & FULLER. Would like to hear from anyone interested in these names. I would be happy to answer specific questions about the above mentioned on-line services. Bob Robert Fuller [email protected] Why Wait? Move to EarthLink.

Hi Listers, Much has been written in the last few days of the ups and downs, the pros and cons of Ancestry.com. I have discussed this with our new FHL liason in Salt Lake City, and he has the following to add about one resource that has not yet been discussed: LDS Family History Centers have been given the opportunity to set up a free, unlimited account to Ancestry.com. So far, about 500 centers across the country have signed up. Anyone interested in visiting a center to use Ancestry.com should call their local center to find out if it is available. If it is not available, patrons are urged to mention this great resource to the staff or director and hopefully they can follow through and get an account set up. Also, if anyone is in Salt Lake City at the Family History Library, all 160 computers can access all of Ancestry.com! Have fun, Alice ILFulton List Administrator and ILFulton County Coordinator

Is the only way you can view a census through the index > or can you search the images page by page? > > cindy You can search page by page with both Ancestry.com and Genealogy.com., Judy Belle __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Thanks to everyone for giving great feedback regarding online subscriptions. Is the only way you can view a census through the index or can you search the images page by page? cindy -----Original Message----- From: Mary E Matthews [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 10:52 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ILFULTON] Ancestry.com Valerie, re Ancestry & census index - I had the same experience and, like you, didn't know they were "partial". Thus I couldn't even find people I know were there. I don't think I'll pay any of 'em that much again. -Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 8:24 AM Subject: [ILFULTON] Ancestry.com > > You know, I am a little bit miffed at Ancestry.com. I did purchase the > yearly access because they sent me an email that said they had the index for > 1920 and 1930 for IL. But when I joined and paid my dues, I found out that > they meant "partial". > > I have not found any of my family in either index, and the 1910 census is not > indexed -- With my dial up connection, loading one census page takes over 5 > minutes to view; so I spent over 3 hours just on one township alone! So I > gave up. > > When I did a search for that name in other areas of the site, I always got > the message that I would have to give them more money. Would it help me or > would I be throwing my money away again? I didn't want to risk it. > > So I'm back to searching the old fashioned way. > > But I sure hope others have better luck than I did! > > Valerie > > (Still looking for Etta "MAY" INGRAM LONGWELL WAGNER (daughter of Schuyler > County residents Uriah and Permelia INGRAM) May INGRAM was b 1879 Plymouth, > Hancock IL, Married Thomas Longwell in 1896 Washington Iowa, Married C H > Wagner in 1903 Monmouth, Warren Co IL, ***THEN SHE VANISHED*** until found > in her bro's obit living in Vermont Fulton Co 1944 -------Children? Unknown. > Died? Unknown.Remarried? Unknown. As of Dec 2002 my great grandmother May > WAGNER still missing) > > > > But, in any event, although Ancestry suggests they have indexed 1870 > > IL, as far as I can determine only Cook Co. is actually indexed. > > That would explain why your Zittles didn't show up on that 1870 > > index. > > > > Margaret > > > > ==== ILFULTON Mailing List ==== > If you need help getting on or off this list, or switching subscribe mode, > please email your ILFulton List Admin, Alice Stipak <[email protected]> --always happy to help! > > ==== ILFULTON Mailing List ==== Volunteers from this list maintain our ILGenWeb Fulton Co. website at: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilfulton/ We post bios, obits, photos, and Fulton resource information and links.

I also found a dead that had the last name spelled 6 ways and they were all the ways you can find the name. Sure didn't help my searching. Went from Leake, Leak, Leek, Leeke, Leach to Lake. Now do you search for Leak and its various forms or is it possible that my research problems are due to the fact that they were sometimes called Lake? Always a puzzle. One problem solved and another takes it place. Oh well, is a great puzzle and a fun hobby. (OBSESSION.) Jerilyn