how they went about it...? what was the 'straw' that made one or more people decided to commit the time to do the work...? and when whas this done...? and who were the authors of the work? as you know, the books themselves are in old script and lengthy and the sections of the books are not continual, intermixed from page to page..... the records that were typed (and then again processed to another system- perhaps in a wordprocessing docuemnt) are fine to use, especially since they ARE used and without doubt will CONTINUE to be used.... but there is one book that has entries that are almost the same - tho not exact - as entries in another book. The books are not exact however and might actually cover the years when st johns and the ontarioville church were administered by the same minister but... i am not sure, cannot read the script and though have asked script readers to translate, come up with no answers.... i think that the accuracy of the typed sheets are nearer to VERY ACCURATE than to NOT ACCURATE... IF the researcher were to exhaust all resources (that is IF they were to exhaust all resources) and still not find a sacramental entry for a person that perhaps a review of the books at the library would be in order for the periods of time that are logical... the table of contents of the books should be of help to the researcher so that EVERY page is not necessary...... i am NOT suggesting that a full review of the books if the entry is found on the transcribe sheets..ONLY IF there is just no other place to look....and someone is 'lost' there was no question as to them being genuine... as you know i saw the originally typed pages... typed well before photocpy and wordperfect etall... and also that there was a newer version of the same typed pages... in fact, both set were copied and are included in the booklets at both the church and the library... there is no doubt that the work to transcribe the records was a time consuming effort.. NO DOUBT.... and we are lucky to have had people dedicated to reading and transcribing and listing the old script entries... for us, it is a wonderment and a gift..... On 1/11/06, MjB <confessthefaith@comcast.net> wrote: > valentine53179 > What exactly would you like to ask those who original transcribers, that > would reassure you the typed documents are accurate and/or genuine? > Pastor > St. John Ev. Lutheran > > ....valentine53179 wrote: > > to be clear... karen, tho she has a listing, did not record the books > > of st john but transcribed a typewriter written document that has no > > authorship to a computerized and sortable document. The original > > typed version, I have seen, is at the church. > > > > the listing itself was created by people unknown in a typed version. > > > > I have done a quick reference some time ago and there were instances > > where the typed document did not match entirely with the books and > > vs.... so, if you are finding inconsistencies, please consider > > reviewing the st john rodenburg records at the STDL where there is a > > full set of printed copies of the books... A quick reference of the > > record types is contained in each of the several books. > > > > I wish we had the chance to talk with the creators of the first typed > > document to know what they did in the process of creating it... there > > is no doubt in my mind that it was a multi step process... first an > > english transcribe to some Cards (perhaps) and then alphabetized and > > they typed from that... (as the typed sheet predated computers and > > tabulation equipment...) > > > ==== IL-COOK-SCHAUMBURG Mailing List ==== > _____________________________ > To post: IL-COOK-SCHAUMBURG-L@rootsweb.com > To Search: go to rootsweb.com, then to interactive search then enter in il-cook-schaumburg > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/il-cook-schaumburg . > Unsubscribe at IL-COOK-SCHAUMBURG-L-request@rootsweb.com or -D > If there is a system problem and you cannot get to valentine, go here: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help.cgi We are a list2 list.... > SEE ALSO: il-cook-elkgrove il-cook-palatine fpsah60194@hotmail.com > > ============================== > View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find > marriage announcements and more. Learn more: > http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > >

.... valentine53179 wrote: > how they went about it...? A member might know the answer so I will inquire. > what was the 'straw' that made one or more people decided to commit > the time to do the work...? > and when whas this done...? When the worship services ceased being celebrated in German,(i.e. 1964) and the predominant language of the parish was English. They also celebrated the congregation's 110 anniversary in 1961 so one "historic" moment most likely led to more intense "historical" research. > and who were the authors of the work? Again I will ask. Members of the Hartmann, Mensching, Theis, Wille, or Hitzeman are the most likely candidates. > as you know, the books themselves are in old script and lengthy and > the sections of the books are not continual, intermixed from page to > page..... > the records that were typed (and then again processed to another > system- perhaps in a wordprocessing docuemnt) are fine to use, > especially since they ARE used and without doubt will CONTINUE to be > used....> > but there is one book that has entries that are almost the same - tho > not exact - as entries in another book. The books are not exact > however and might actually cover the years when st johns and the > ontarioville church were administered by the same minister but... i am > not sure, cannot read the script and though have asked script readers > to translate, come up with no answers.... The sections that pertain to each church act (Baptisms, Burials, Confirmations, Marriages) are continuous in and of themselves in each book, aren't they? The overlap with Ontarioville, (now Bartlett) took place in the years 1949-1963 with regard to Christian education and the joint effort with the school 1 to 8 grade. It was a dual parish served by one pastor only briefly from 1957-1964. The readable dates of the two books in question go back much further. And the numbers of acts recorded in duplication are too numerous to be attributed to such a short period of joint pastoral service. The confusion of records you refer to is probably during ante-bellum times. There was a period from approximately 1855 to 1862 when St. Peter and St. John were being mutually served by the same pastor, before he went to serve briefly as military chaplain in the Civil War. This would be the most likely period for those confusing records, as there were more family members between St. Peter and John, than St. John and Ontarioville. So what is the best explanation for two approximately identical sources? I will hypothesize it due to a fire in 1910, and the condition of surviving manuscripts were such that they came up with the solution of making a new copy. Caution, this paragraph is only a supposition.... which has yet to be tested and proved or disproved. > i think that the accuracy of the typed sheets are nearer to VERY > ACCURATE than to NOT ACCURATE... > IF the researcher were to exhaust all resources (that is IF they were > to exhaust all resources) and still not find a sacramental entry for a > person that perhaps a review of the books at the library would be in > order for the periods of time that are logical... the table of > contents of the books should be of help to the researcher so that > EVERY page is not necessary...... > i am NOT suggesting that a full review of the books if the entry is > found on the transcribe sheets..ONLY IF there is just no other place > to look....and someone is 'lost' The "lost" records will most likely be due to a fire which burned down the sanctuary's wooden structure (dedicated in 1863) when it was struck by lighting on Aug. 23 1910. Pastor Richter was able to save only so many records being stored in the church at that time. The loss of the structure was total. > there was no question as to them being genuine... > as you know i saw the originally typed pages... > typed well before photocpy and wordperfect etall... > and also that there was a newer version of the same typed pages... > in fact, both set were copied and are included in the booklets at both > the church and the library... Yes thanks for doing that..... > there is no doubt that the work to transcribe the records was a time > consuming effort.. > NO > DOUBT.... > and we are lucky to have had people dedicated to reading and > transcribing and listing the old script entries... > for us, it is a wonderment > and > a gift..... For which, however incomplete due to human error and acts of God they may be, we are all truly grateful. Pastor St. John Ev. Lutheran - Rodenberg

st peter and st john never had duplicated or overlaping records.. i know i have written about the ontarioville church and st john overlapping in the past before the 1940 era....... and that info too is in the archives... i do not think that the type list is from the 1960's.. earlier than 1960s is my TYPEWRITTEN GUESS.... On 1/14/06, MjB <confessthefaith@comcast.net> wrote: > .... valentine53179 wrote: > > how they went about it...? > A member might know the answer so I will inquire. > > > > what was the 'straw' that made one or more people decided to commit > > the time to do the work...? > > and when whas this done...? > When the worship services ceased being celebrated in German,(i.e. 1964) > and the predominant language of the parish was English. They also > celebrated the congregation's 110 anniversary in 1961 so one "historic" > moment most likely led to more intense "historical" research. > > > > and who were the authors of the work? > Again I will ask. Members of the Hartmann, Mensching, Theis, Wille, or > Hitzeman are the most likely candidates. > > > > as you know, the books themselves are in old script and lengthy and > > the sections of the books are not continual, intermixed from page to > > page..... > > the records that were typed (and then again processed to another > > system- perhaps in a wordprocessing docuemnt) are fine to use, > > especially since they ARE used and without doubt will CONTINUE to be > > used....> > > but there is one book that has entries that are almost the same - tho > > not exact - as entries in another book. The books are not exact > > however and might actually cover the years when st johns and the > > ontarioville church were administered by the same minister but... i am > > not sure, cannot read the script and though have asked script readers > > to translate, come up with no answers.... > > The sections that pertain to each church act (Baptisms, Burials, > Confirmations, Marriages) are continuous in and of themselves in each > book, aren't they? > The overlap with Ontarioville, (now Bartlett) took place in the years > 1949-1963 with regard to Christian education and the joint effort with > the school 1 to 8 grade. It was a dual parish served by one pastor only > briefly from 1957-1964. The readable dates of the two books in question > go back much further. And the numbers of acts recorded in duplication > are too numerous to be attributed to such a short period of joint > pastoral service. > > The confusion of records you refer to is probably during ante-bellum > times. There was a period from approximately 1855 to 1862 when St. > Peter and St. John were being mutually served by the same pastor, before > he went to serve briefly as military chaplain in the Civil War. This > would be the most likely period for those confusing records, as there > were more family members between St. Peter and John, than St. John and > Ontarioville. > > So what is the best explanation for two approximately identical sources? > I will hypothesize it due to a fire in 1910, and the condition of > surviving manuscripts were such that they came up with the solution of > making a new copy. Caution, this paragraph is only a supposition.... > which has yet to be tested and proved or disproved. > > > > i think that the accuracy of the typed sheets are nearer to VERY > > ACCURATE than to NOT ACCURATE... > > IF the researcher were to exhaust all resources (that is IF they were > > to exhaust all resources) and still not find a sacramental entry for a > > person that perhaps a review of the books at the library would be in > > order for the periods of time that are logical... the table of > > contents of the books should be of help to the researcher so that > > EVERY page is not necessary...... > > i am NOT suggesting that a full review of the books if the entry is > > found on the transcribe sheets..ONLY IF there is just no other place > > to look....and someone is 'lost' > The "lost" records will most likely be due to a fire which burned down > the sanctuary's wooden structure (dedicated in 1863) when it was struck > by lighting on Aug. 23 1910. Pastor Richter was able to save only so > many records being stored in the church at that time. The loss of the > structure was total. > > > > there was no question as to them being genuine... > > as you know i saw the originally typed pages... > > typed well before photocpy and wordperfect etall... > > and also that there was a newer version of the same typed pages... > > in fact, both set were copied and are included in the booklets at both > > the church and the library... > Yes thanks for doing that..... > > > > there is no doubt that the work to transcribe the records was a time > > consuming effort.. > > NO > > DOUBT.... > > and we are lucky to have had people dedicated to reading and > > transcribing and listing the old script entries... > > for us, it is a wonderment > > and > > a gift..... > For which, however incomplete due to human error and acts of God they > may be, we are all truly grateful. > Pastor > St. John Ev. Lutheran - Rodenberg > > > ==== IL-COOK-SCHAUMBURG Mailing List ==== > _____________________________ > To post: IL-COOK-SCHAUMBURG-L@rootsweb.com > To Search: go to rootsweb.com, then to interactive search then enter in il-cook-schaumburg > ARCHIVES: http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/il-cook-schaumburg . > Unsubscribe at IL-COOK-SCHAUMBURG-L-request@rootsweb.com or -D > If there is a system problem and you cannot get to valentine, go here: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/help.cgi We are a list2 list.... > SEE ALSO: il-cook-elkgrove il-cook-palatine fpsah60194@hotmail.com > > ============================== > New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > >