Cher, I think I did ask about the 2 bodies in the grave and I know the lady told me there was no way to know which body was which. You have a good point about the date - earlier death is on the bottom. She told me that there is not even a marker of any sort on the plot. I think that there were a lot of deaths & murders in Chicago during that time of the Black Hand murders and rise of organized crime there. Even though I know there is no marker on the grave I have this interest in actually seeing the spot if I ever get to Chicago. My Mom's twin sister died at 6 years old and that was back in 1925. Things were very different then. My Mom's biggest memory about her sister was the fact that the wake/viewing was right in their house. I'm not sure if that was the custom back then or because of the cost, but it was pretty traumatic for my Mom at 6 years old to see her own image lay dead right in the living room for a few days. However, the headstone on her grave is quite elaborate and beautiful and they spared no cost for the headstone. I bet that your family didn't talk mugh about the little girl that died in your family because it was so traumatic for the family. I never heard of 3 people stacked in a single grave. That must be a really deep grave. Michelle O'Keefe ------------- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:13:45 -0800 (PST) From: Cheryl <genealogygroups@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [IL-COOK-CHICAGO] Mt. Carmel Cemetary To: il-cook-chicago@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <6983.68066.qm@web45704.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Michelle, I, too, have had excellent info via phone from Mt Carmel Cemetery as well as Good Shepherd, the new cemetery here. Those office workers go above and beyond to help us. You've raised a point I had never thought of, simply because I would never have enough money to move a family member! Assuming a relative received a charity grave and was buried with others that were not related, how could that body be identified? It is my understanding, from seeing this on caskets for family members that when the undertaker closed the casket, a seal was placed. I know the seals had identifiable numbers. Why wouldn't the cemetery, knowing a body was in a particular grave, be able to identify which body was which by that seal? They also have a copy of a burial permit which is dated. While they can't tell just from the burial cards they keep in the office, once in the grave I think they can tell. Also, in my family, three are buried on top of each other in one grave at Mt Olivet. Little Katie was first, (age 5), and she is at the bottom; her dad died next and is in the middle, with Sarah, the mom being on top. I had never heard of this before and was totally freaked out to look for one and find them all at once! Little Katie was a twin I knew nothing about, though my mom states she "had heard a child died". This twin child was the sister of my mom's mom, and the family was so closeknit. Yet no stories exist about her. Curious and curiouser! Cher --- On Tue, 2/24/09, mich0222@aol.com <mich0222@aol.com> wrote: From: mich0222@aol.com <mich0222@aol.com> Subject: Re: [IL-COOK-CHICAGO] Mt. Carmel Cemetary Since the grave I was looking for turned out to be in the charity section of unmarked graves, there was no marke r or headstone. FYI - In that case, they put 2 unrelated bodies in the same grave & so now there is not really a way to tell if his body is the top or bottom - she mentioned that in case I was claiming the body & wanted to move it somewhere - which I did not ! Michelle O'Keefe

In 1925, home wakes were still the norm. I have an aunt and uncle (sister and brother) in a single grave. They both died young and are buried over an unrelated child. Dave B David T Buzzek You cannot soar with the eagles during the day if you hoot with the owls at night! --- On Wed, 2/25/09, mich0222@aol.com <mich0222@aol.com> wrote: > From: mich0222@aol.com <mich0222@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [IL-COOK-CHICAGO] MT Carmel cemetary / unmarked graves / deep graves > To: il-cook-chicago@rootsweb.com > Date: Wednesday, February 25, 2009, 6:43 AM > Cher, I think I did ask about the 2 bodies in the grave > and I know the lady told me there was no way to know which > > body was which. You have a good point about the date - > earlier death is on the bottom. She told me that there is > > not even a marker of any sort on the plot. I think that > there > were a lot of deaths & murders in Chicago during that > time of the > Black Hand murders and rise of organized crime there. Even > > though I know there is no marker on the grave I have this > interest in actually seeing the spot if I ever get to > Chicago. > > My Mom's twin sister died at 6 years old and that was > back in > 1925. Things were very different then. My Mom's > biggest memory > about her sister was the fact that the wake/viewing was > right in > their house. I'm not sure if that was the custom back > then or because > of the cost, but it was pretty traumatic for my Mom at 6 > years old > to see her own image lay dead right in the living room for > a few days. > However, the headstone on her grave is quite elaborate and > beautiful > and they spared no cost for the headstone. > I bet that your family didn't talk mugh about the > little girl that > died in your family because it was so traumatic for the > family. I > never heard of 3 people stacked in a single grave. That > must be a really > deep grave. > Michelle O'Keefe > > ------------- > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 08:13:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Cheryl <genealogygroups@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [IL-COOK-CHICAGO] Mt. Carmel Cemetary > To: il-cook-chicago@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <6983.68066.qm@web45704.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Michelle, > > I, too, have had excellent info via phone from Mt Carmel > Cemetery as well as > Good Shepherd, the new cemetery here. Those office workers > go above and beyond > to help us. > > You've raised a point I had never thought of, simply > because I would never have > enough money to move a family member! Assuming a relative > received a charity > grave and was buried with others that were not related, how > could that body be > identified? It is my understanding, from seeing this on > caskets for family > members that when the undertaker closed the casket, a seal > was placed. I know > the seals had identifiable numbers. Why wouldn't the > cemetery, knowing a body > was in a particular grave, be able to identify which body > was which by that > seal? They also have a copy of a burial permit which is > dated. While they can't > tell just from the burial cards they keep in the office, > once in the grave I > think they can tell. > > Also, in my family, three are buried on top of each other > in one grave at Mt > Olivet. Little Katie was first, (age 5), and she is at the > bottom; her dad died > next and is in the middle, with Sarah, the mom being on > top. I had never heard > of this before and was totally freaked out to look for one > and find them all at > once! Little Katie was a twin I knew nothing about, though > my mom states she > "had heard a child died". This twin child was the > sister of my mom's mom, and > the family was so closeknit. Yet no stories exist about > her. > > Curious and curiouser! > > Cher > > > --- On Tue, 2/24/09, mich0222@aol.com > <mich0222@aol.com> wrote: > > From: mich0222@aol.com <mich0222@aol.com> > Subject: Re: [IL-COOK-CHICAGO] Mt. Carmel Cemetary > Since the grave I was looking for turned out to be in > the charity section of > unmarked graves, there was no marke > r or headstone. FYI - In that case, they > put 2 unrelated bodies in the same grave & so now > there is not really a way to > tell if his body is the top or bottom - she > mentioned that in case I was claiming the body & wanted > to move it > somewhere - which I did not ! > Michelle O'Keefe > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > IL-COOK-CHICAGO-request@rootsweb.com with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message