Many months ago I had "go-rounds" with Jean Rice over posting those Landowners Records (which she will not post credit and source information for on her posts by the way) to the Waterford Query board. They are not "queries" and according to the GC guidelines, should not be posted there. I was having the same types of problems Mary is talking about, flooding the query board with questions to her and comments. Despite the current GC problems, they were good with working this out with her, Jean was instructed not to post those types of information to query boards, and in fact GC created general Ireland Deed boards specifically for her to post this info to for ALL counties in Ireland. That's where she's supposed to have been posting them, not to county's query boards. If she hasn't then its your decision as host whether or not to ask her to post them where she's been told to or not. Jean seems to think that unless someone complains she can do what she wants to in terms of posting the info. My understanding is that Jean Rice has nothing to do with GC or this IGW project... and to me personally as Waterford host, I don't think a suggestion by a non-host, especially under the current problems with GC, should have even become an issue on this list or even suggested to the hosts at all. Personally speaking, I agree with Mary. I've decided not to link to any GC boards not under my control as Waterford host. They are not sanctioned, and Dick lied and violated my copyright when he tried to pass my page url off as his to even register the request for the board. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm

There is still the fact that the boards involved are being 'maintained' by someone other than the county host - I don't intend to post any links for anything until the entire matter is sorted out. Also, previously we had very little control over what links could be generated on the query board - usually just a simple link back to the county or home page was all that we could input. Now apparently, you can link to just about anywhere - (with or without the permission of the page being linked to?) Naturally if I had any of the extra boards for my county I would want the links listed in the manner they now allow. How much has Jean Rice being involved with maintaining these extra types of boards? Is she aware that usually 100% of the postings will be queries? I still get numerous responses (queries) being posted askings for more info on her own numerous lengthy 'landowners' postings to the query board-which naturally go unanswered. I had suggested to her that there was a better vehicle for presenting her postings than having them listed as queries (which they are not) but her only response was that none of the other hosts were bothered by the messages. (I had suggested that I set up a page devoted to her info instead of query postings - but she just continued posting to the query board). The information Jean has provided is of course of the utmost interest and importance, but I still feel a query board is not the place for it - she apparently does not care for the opinion of the county co-ordinator involved so I just forward the bounced responses on her postings to her. That said, Don, I am interested in the code for the surname boards that I maintain, as I do control the extra boards involved and am glad we finally have some control over the links that we are allowed to post to our own boards. Mary Kelly Co Tip At 09:07 AM 7/10/00 -0700, you wrote: >Jean is a lookup volunteer for County Leitrim and she has contributed >information to many of your query and mailing lists. > >She likes the way BIOS, wills, etc. are linked from the query page. Does >anyone else like this idea? > >I have the code if you want to do it. > >Don > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jean Rice" <jeanrice@cet.com> >To: <donkelly@grovenet.net> >Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:51 AM >Subject: Co. Leitrim new pages > > >> Hi Don, I really like the way you have the new pages listed at the upper >> left corner of the main Leitrim page so people can click on them for easy >> access. Wonder why the other hosts don't do the same? (They should!) >Jean >> > > >==== IGW Mailing List ==== >Donald O'Collaugh Kelly > > >

Jean Rice also has little regard for copyright laws, and has been banned from my SHAMROCK list for repeated copyright violations and abuse of the list. She may be a good "lookup volunteer" but she doesn't always adhere to the rules or laws, and doesn't seem to have a problem passing off other's work as her own. Maura <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm

Jean is a lookup volunteer for County Leitrim and she has contributed information to many of your query and mailing lists. She likes the way BIOS, wills, etc. are linked from the query page. Does anyone else like this idea? I have the code if you want to do it. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Rice" <jeanrice@cet.com> To: <donkelly@grovenet.net> Sent: Monday, July 10, 2000 12:51 AM Subject: Co. Leitrim new pages > Hi Don, I really like the way you have the new pages listed at the upper > left corner of the main Leitrim page so people can click on them for easy > access. Wonder why the other hosts don't do the same? (They should!) Jean >

Sheila Just testing - ---------------------------------------- db The essence of humanity is in db ~/ the pursuit of the arts! || // _||// Sheila's Corner ' || ` hhelser@bright.net ) || ( _)::(_ http://www.bright.net/~hhelser/ ) || ( ( \/ ) /'`-..-' - ----------------------------------------

Hi, I am just testing. Best Wishes, Carol Hepburn chepburn@uswest.net Phoenix, AZ USA Home: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/ Work: http://www.acepromotions.net/

Hi Jack and thanks. We agree on a great number of points, and our CCs do have a great number of rights that GenConnect is at least inconsiderate of. May the many points of solution be as easy to obtain as total cooperation between all members of our WGW community. The GC entity can only walk on our rights, and continue spitting on us, if we permit them to do so. How many people have tried to walk on the Irish? Thanks for permission to distribute your comments to the Ireland CCs. I am pleased to see so much cooperation, differences on small details?, of course, yet united in a very worthy cause. Ireland has been invaded, make no mistake about that. Don O Kelly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Reidy" <jreidy@writeme.com> To: "Donkelly" <donkelly@grovenet.net> Sent: Sunday, July 09, 2000 3:34 AM Subject: Re: Fw: GC Cluster Pages > Hi Don, > > That is pretty much as I see it too. The GC policy (over which we have no > control) allows anyone to request as many boards as they like. In the case of a > geographic board like one of our counties, it would be common courtesy for > anyone to notify the appropriate host and perhaps even discuss the matter. But > it is not required by the rules of GC. I think that it was one of the IGW hosts > that did this especially upsets many. > > I have no problem with someone having Limerick boards. But I can understand how > some people would be upset by this. The part that bothers me is that GC will > let someone request many more boards than is possible to maintain. But this is > GC policy and we can't do much about it. > > Maura has a good point in that the application asks for an URL (and seems to say > it should be the requestor's URL). I believe I read that GC can revolke > someone's boards if they are not maintained properly. So there would appear to > be 2 valid challenges to this problem even though we have no direct say in the > matter (a GC policy). > > And since this involves an IGW host, we could look into violations of IGW (or > BIGW, WGW) policy. > > BTW, you have my permission to quote this email to the IGW-CC list or in any > correspondence related to this issue. > > Jack > > > > Donkelly wrote: > > > GC recently changed the policies. One need not be a CC, SC or NC to apply > > for a board for their county. Now, whether they can maintain them is > > immaterial, anyone can apply for as many boards they want. > > > > GC has the right to set their own policies. > > > > WGW, IGW and all other GenWebs under the WGW umbrella, are also independent > > and have the right to set their own policies. > > > > Whether or not those policies conflict with the GC policies is immaterial > > until push comes to shove. > > > > We have been shoved. > > > > GC has violated WGW policies in a number of respects, including the > > requirement that CCs maintain their own county GC boards. > > > > Therefore, all WGW GenWebs have the right to complain, and the power to make > > it stick. > > > > I respect everyone's opinion, but that is how I see it . Slan go foill, Don > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jack Reidy" <jreidy@writeme.com> > > To: "Donkelly" <donkelly@grovenet.net> > > Cc: "Vicki Kessel" <GG4you4170@aol.com>; "Maura" <mpetzolt2@webtv.net> > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 7:41 AM > > Subject: Re: Fw: GC Cluster Pages > > > > > Don et al, > > > > > > I'm not up on GenConnect policies so I may be way off here. But I was > > > under the impression that although both WGW and GC are on rootsweb they > > > are independent. If so, WGW status as host, etc has no effect on GC. In > > > fact I could not find any mention of requirements (other than doing the > > > job) to adopt any GC board. > > > > > > I could not find anything on the Admim page that indicated policies > > > other than no commecial stuff, etc. I did not delve too far into the > > > process to adopt boards but on the first few pages I saw nothing that > > > would indicate that WGW or IGW hosts have any special status in the > > > process. > > > > > > Jack > > > > > > Donkelly wrote: > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Donkelly" <donkelly@grovenet.net> > > > > To: <cmerrin@flashcom.net> > > > > Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:06 PM > > > > Subject: GC Cluster Pages > > > > > > > > > Dear Mr. Merrin, > > > > > > > > > > The IrelandGenWeb Project is preparing formal complaint against Nancy > > > > Trice > > > > > and Dick McCouch for putting up cluster pages in Ireland without prior > > > > > approval of the NC and the CCs, without prior notice, and in violation > > of > > > > > GC, RW, WGW and IGW policies. > > > > > > > > > > I know you are at this point unaware of this developing issue. I > > thought > > > > it > > > > > best you heard it first from me. > > > > > > > > > > Looking forward to mutual success. > > > > > > > > > > Donald O'Collaugh Kelly > > > > > National Coordinator > > > > > IrelandGenWeb and IcelandGenWeb > > > > > > > > >

In a message dated 7/9/00 1:37:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, donkelly@grovenet.net writes: << How many people have tried to walk on the Irish? >> and survive with their sanity intact? :) That said...I will not decommission my board.

Has anyone heard from him? He is refusing to answer my emails, tho I know he received them since one was forwarded back to me after he sent it to Nancy Trice. The only person I know who has heard from him is Don. Who else has written to him privately asking that they either be given the pages for their county and/or that their page not be linked (since he violated GenConnect written guidelines when he gave OUR urls as his (by filing them in under "YOUR URL " section). Maura <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm

When the boards were offered way back I asked for all the Sligo Boards. They are all under my administration and have been for over a year. Sheila - Sligo County

I believe firmly that the policy has changed because I operated an "orphaned county" query board for Co Longford because the host at that time had his own query system and did not want Genconnect. I had bios appear on the query board and was considering applying for that board also. I went to the application page and my understanding from what I read was that you had to be the CC *or* have permission from the current host.to request any board not already created. After reading that I dropped the idea of a Bio board. This was within the last year. This is my recollection of the instructions. Christina County Longford http://www.rootsweb.com/~irllog/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maura" <mpetzolt2@webtv.net> To: <IGW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 2:29 PM Subject: Re: [IGW-CC's] GenConnect Page > Joan Young, a paid staff member of GenConnect, admitted to both Don and > I late last night that the policy was indeed that only WGW hosts could > request boards, but that the policy had been "changed". Nancy Trice on > the other hand, who is the head of GenConnect, had refused to > acknowledge this policy -ever- existed. When Joan was asked to provide > the date of this policy change, and asked why there was no announcement > of this change she suddenly clamped up and refused to answer any > questions at all, referring us to Nancy Trice, who is also refusing to > answer anything other than with a version of "because I said so". > > None of this gives me any confidence in the GenConnect system, and makes > me have serious questions about the motives behind this whole episode. > Something's just not kosher here. It does not add up. > > Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about the creation of the > boards, they exist now. What we can do about it (those of us who are > upset about this) is continue to write to Dick and ask, or demand, that > he give our boards to us to administer , and/or that he not link back to > our official IGW pages. I"ve written to him several times with no > acknowlegement at all, tho I know he got the emails since he forwarded > one to Nancy Trice which she then forwarded back to me. But I"m not > giving up, I want the boards for my county under my administration. (Of > course, if I had wanted them in the first place, I would have asked for > them, but since they exist now whether I wanted them to or not, they > need to be administered by the official host, no one else) > > To me, it's not so much the issue of the boards themselves, but that > another person would do this to fellow hosts, and that GenConnect would > refuse to answer questions and backtrack on when they changed this > previously stated policy. I have written to the new head of > "Rootsweb.com Inc." Charles Merrin about this entire situation, but have > not heard from him yet. > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage > http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS > > Helpful Hints for Successful Searching > http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm > > > ==== IGW Mailing List ==== > National Coordinator >

Carol, My thoughts exactly. What does one person need with that many county boards?? If only to create their own project?? It looks suspicious and it would be nice to hear from Dick as to why he wanted all those boards and why he put the other cc's urls in instead of his own site or the GC Ireland index page. Best Wishes, Carol Hepburn chepburn@uswest.net Phoenix, AZ USA Home: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/ Work: http://www.acepromotions.net/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carol Bennett" <Carol@tower-house.demon.co.uk> To: <IGW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 1:30 PM Subject: Re: [IGW-CC's] Cluster pages > In message <016b01bfe7d8$0a541ce0$1984d2d1@don>, Donkelly > <donkelly@grovenet.net> writes > >ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE NC > > > >Most of you have probably heard the news about new GC cluster pages being > >added to all of the IrelandGenWeb county sites. > > > > > >CCs have the right to be consulted before other pages are put on their site > >by another CC of a different county. The first right of approval or refusal > >is implicit. > > <snip> > > > Don > > That is precisely what has miffed me - the fact that I > wasn't consulted. Seems a very strange state of affairs, > and too clandestine for my liking. > > > Carol > > > > Carol Bennett > ListOwner, Ulverston & Furness Genealogy Mailing List > > CAR: http://www.tower-house.demon.co.uk/car/ > Ulverston Heritage Centre: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukuhc/ > > Co-ordinator, EnglandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engwgw > > CumberlandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcul/ > CumbriaGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcma/ > DurhamGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engdur/ > LancashireGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~englan/ > NorthumberlandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engnbl/ > WestmorlandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engwes/ > Armagh,IrelandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nirarm/ > Carlow,IrelandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlcar/ > The Watchers: http://www.watchers.org.uk > ============================== > Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: > Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. > http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/ > > > ==== IGW Mailing List ==== > The IrelandGenWeb Project > >

In message <016b01bfe7d8$0a541ce0$1984d2d1@don>, Donkelly <donkelly@grovenet.net> writes >ANNOUNCEMENT FROM THE NC > >Most of you have probably heard the news about new GC cluster pages being >added to all of the IrelandGenWeb county sites. > > >CCs have the right to be consulted before other pages are put on their site >by another CC of a different county. The first right of approval or refusal >is implicit. <snip> Don That is precisely what has miffed me - the fact that I wasn't consulted. Seems a very strange state of affairs, and too clandestine for my liking. Carol Carol Bennett ListOwner, Ulverston & Furness Genealogy Mailing List CAR: http://www.tower-house.demon.co.uk/car/ Ulverston Heritage Centre: http://www.rootsweb.com/~ukuhc/ Co-ordinator, EnglandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engwgw CumberlandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcul/ CumbriaGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engcma/ DurhamGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engdur/ LancashireGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~englan/ NorthumberlandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engnbl/ WestmorlandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~engwes/ Armagh,IrelandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~nirarm/ Carlow,IrelandGenWeb: http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlcar/ The Watchers: http://www.watchers.org.uk ============================== Join the RootsWeb WorldConnect Project: Linking the world, one GEDCOM at a time. http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/

Carol, Everything you say is very true, and this is the second time in the past month that a fellow host has created something for my county with not so much as a "please" or "would you rather do this". Common courtesy seems to be lacking lately. I would point out tho that on that request site, the terminology still -indicates- the person has to have their OWN international page. At the very least, we might be able to get our pages unlinked from those pages on that basis, essentially leaving those pages in limbo in cyber land. They are not "official" pages, and let's face it, how often are those boards used anyway? Queries are used, sometimes Obits, but the others are fairly useless, only getting queries posted to them no matter what the name of the board. Dealing with Nancy Trice is hopeless. I haven't heard back from Merrin. I called the number (not toll free) I found on the MyFamily page for Customer Solutions which is supposed to be open at this time, only to be told to leave a message (which I didn't bother to do). Those of us concerned about this need to band together and do something as a group. Dick only seems to be ignoring any of my emails and requests/demands for either boards for my county to be given to me or to change the link on the page. There has to be -something- those of us concerned about this can do. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm

The policy used to be that only the cc could request the boards - and for the most part this is still true in the USGW. However in the WGW - they allow anyone to ask for boards regardless of project afflilation. There also used to be a policy that you could admin only a certain number of boards. Both Nate and I have been told we couldn't have any more boards even though we had a legitimate reason to ask for them (they were abandoned and part of our projects). We were told - no way. You have too many boards. Now, one person was given many boards (hundred's if you count 6 times the number of counties in both Scotland and Ireland). He had no website to link these boards too -- and used our urls. It also used to be that you had to have a website showing you were the admin -- how many times was I told I couldn't have a board because my name wasn't on the website page. Yet, all that has changed. I know that I have been told personally that I am not allowed to contact any board admin. I have been threatened that I may lose my GC priveledges if I do so. That is why I wrote to Nancy directly to ask about this situation. Basically her answer was just what Maura said - because I wanted to give them to him. I do not plan on linking to these boards as they are being used for queries. I think it was in bad form for a cc with this project to ask for boards and link to websites that were not his. No matter the fact that he will be admining them - to the end user they look like they belong to the project website. I am just waiting to get email about all the queries posted to the obits board, etc. Best Wishes, Carol Hepburn chepburn@uswest.net Phoenix, AZ USA Home: http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~cheps/ Work: http://www.acepromotions.net/

There is no direct mention on the official international request page http://genconnect.rootsweb.com/request/international.html -now- that you have to -prove- you are the county's CC to get a new board created. There used to be tho, and this was confirmed by a GC Staff member, altho now she is quickly backtracking from that fact. However, if you go to that page, and look at it carefully, it still -implies- that only CC's can make new requests. Why? Under "Name of Board Administrator" it states "Do not request a board using someone else's name in order to help out a new CC..." and under "URL" it states "Enter the URL for your International web page corresponding to the locality of the boards you are requesting (this is where your board will link back to):" They said very plainly YOUR International web page..... indicating that you should have a page dealing with that county. Dick McCoach does not have pages dealing with all these IGW and SGW counties. He's linking back to pages that are not his. So it seems that GenConnect can't decide whether you have to be a CC or not. They are trying hard to avoid saying they made a big mistake, but it the evidence is showing that they did. On these statements on the pages alone, Dick should give the pages to the county host if they ask for them, and if not, he has no right to link to that county's pages, since he obviously lied when he filled out the form (since he stated our url's as his to complete the form...) Maura Petzolt Waterford County host <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm

Joan Young, a paid staff member of GenConnect, admitted to both Don and I late last night that the policy was indeed that only WGW hosts could request boards, but that the policy had been "changed". Nancy Trice on the other hand, who is the head of GenConnect, had refused to acknowledge this policy -ever- existed. When Joan was asked to provide the date of this policy change, and asked why there was no announcement of this change she suddenly clamped up and refused to answer any questions at all, referring us to Nancy Trice, who is also refusing to answer anything other than with a version of "because I said so". None of this gives me any confidence in the GenConnect system, and makes me have serious questions about the motives behind this whole episode. Something's just not kosher here. It does not add up. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about the creation of the boards, they exist now. What we can do about it (those of us who are upset about this) is continue to write to Dick and ask, or demand, that he give our boards to us to administer , and/or that he not link back to our official IGW pages. I"ve written to him several times with no acknowlegement at all, tho I know he got the emails since he forwarded one to Nancy Trice which she then forwarded back to me. But I"m not giving up, I want the boards for my county under my administration. (Of course, if I had wanted them in the first place, I would have asked for them, but since they exist now whether I wanted them to or not, they need to be administered by the official host, no one else) To me, it's not so much the issue of the boards themselves, but that another person would do this to fellow hosts, and that GenConnect would refuse to answer questions and backtrack on when they changed this previously stated policy. I have written to the new head of "Rootsweb.com Inc." Charles Merrin about this entire situation, but have not heard from him yet. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm

I looked at the method for applying bec. I thought it used to be that you could not request any new boards unless you were the CC. It now says you cannot request any *new* query board unless you are the CC. Beyond that the system is computerized. No human involvement on GC's end. This is how I interpreted it anyway. Regards, Christina (Co. Longford) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot" <talbot23@netzero.net> To: <IGW-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:32 PM Subject: [IGW-CC's] GenConnect Page > Has their been any official correspondence regarding this. Could it be that someone became a tad overzealous in configuring the switches? > > > ==== IGW Mailing List ==== > Donald O'Collaugh Kelly >

Has their been any official correspondence regarding this. Could it be that someone became a tad overzealous in configuring the switches?

The url for what Don is referring to is http://genconnect.rootsweb.com/index/Ireland.html Speaking personally, I deeply resent that another host would go behind all the other hosts backs and even -think- of requesting the full suites of boards. If we , as hosts, had wanted them we would have asked for them. I will be contacting the host involved and GenConnect, and may be pursuing this in terms of other grievances against this person also. To me, we are all trying to get this project back on track and make it the best it can be, and we certainly don't need one person causing these types of problems for us. Maura <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Maura Petzolt mpetzolt2@webtv.net <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> SHAMROCK ROOTS homepage http://community.webtv.net/shamrockroots/SHAMROCKROOTS Helpful Hints for Successful Searching http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlwat/instruct.htm